View Full Version : 50mbit - Wired vs. Wireless and Netgear vs. hacked Linksys
systematic
05-06-2009, 07:39
Ok was upgraded to 50mbit service yesterday (Manchester)
PC is in same room as router. Only 2.4ghz inteferences are cordless phone, wireless mouse and microwave in kitchen. The router and dong are in line of site and there are no walls in between. Connection was made at 300mbps and 3 of the 4 bars (forgot what they are) reported 100%. Noise level was about 26% I think.
Upgraded FW on dongle and used latest software for router (via www)
So fired up the wireless with the Netgear and dongle supplied by VM - CRAP SPEEDS - 13 - 15mbit.
Tried Netgear with different dongle (Edimax N) - same crap speeds.
Swapped Router for a Linksys WRT54G v2 with DDWRT. Obviously wireless would only support 54mbit (with encryption it's less) so didnt bother with a speed test.
Tried Wired on Linksys - CRAP SPEED (23mbit)
Tried Wired on Netgear - better (44mbit)
So how can one achieve the same speeds using Wireless? Is it even possible? Any ideas why speeds drops massively on wireless?
The only thing I haven't tried is a DUAL-BAND wireless N Router operating in 5ghz mode.
I'd like to hear some responses about your wired vs. wireless speeds thanks.
Regards.
Personally, some users are finding it hard to recieve full 50mb with the Netgear router on.
What speeds do you get directly connected to the modem?
Also, if you have a Wireless G device connected at any one point, it will slow the whole 'N' speed down to about 25mb, so disconnect all Wireless G devices and connect only with the N Adapter provided by Virgin or your own if you have any.
chrispuk2004
05-06-2009, 09:04
it is possible. I have a wireless link set up transmitting at 90 mbits per second down and up over a distance of about 100m.
systematic
05-06-2009, 09:22
Just tried the wireless again and :
Test 1
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2009/06/53.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
Test 2
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2009/06/54.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
Test 3
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2009/06/55.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
Test 4
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2009/06/56.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
Better but still not 50mbit. I want 50mbit!!
But these are for London and Amsterdam ONLY. Everywhere else is absolutely **** - under 25mbit including MAIDENHEAD
Speeds aren't consistent enough on WLAN for me.
Id like to test on 5ghz band. Maybe the 2.4ghz is taking away those extra few mbits.
Virgin need to get their routing sorted out.
Zhadnost
05-06-2009, 11:53
Of course speedtest.net isn't all that reliable at telling you how fast you're getting.
Oh and netgear kit is generally pants.
Ignitionnet
05-06-2009, 13:01
Better but still not 50mbit. I want 50mbit!!
But these are for London and Amsterdam ONLY. Everywhere else is absolutely **** - under 25mbit including MAIDENHEAD
Speeds aren't consistent enough on WLAN for me.
Id like to test on 5ghz band. Maybe the 2.4ghz is taking away those extra few mbits.
Virgin need to get their routing sorted out.
Have you considered purchasing your own internet? One where all the bandwidth in the world is dedicated to just you so no sharing with other people who are denying you your 50Mbit?
If you own it all you can also avoid things like the routing of other ISPs and congestion on nodes outside of your network's control. Those things that we have to accept as reasons why we can't get 50Mbit from everywhere from London to Falkland Islands to Melbourne to Wellington and back.
You aren't getting 50Mbit from Maidenhead because it sucks as a speedtest site, nothing to do with VM.
Regarding WLAN there are probably other people using that spectrum, again it's a shared resource, and we all have to coexist on there. I can see 11 other wireless networks besides my own in my home. This doesn't mean signal issues are going to be rampant but it can be enough to take a few % off here and there.
I can gladly sell you 50Mbit of your own to the Internet though :) I'm thinking about 1k a month + tail circuit costs?
You must be realistic with your expectations of the service, it's a shared and contended resource right from your home through to whichever server you are going to. There are many potential reasons for speed issues some of which are well outside of VM control. Wireless performance is a pain to nail down at the best of times.
It is very hard with a single stream to get exactly 50Mbit given that the service is only capped 6% higher. Only way people have done so is either via the tester not measuring accurately or using something like newsgroups to get multithreaded downloads going. There are overheads which eat a few Mbits here and there and 48Mbit is perfectly acceptable.
systematic
05-06-2009, 13:22
Ok the wireless is fluctuating all over the show now. I can get between 23 - 42mbit but it's not always a definite.
I do use newsgroups and best speed i get on 12 connections is 5.5mb/s, which is about 44mbit.
The weird thing is that when I move the dongle by 2 cm to the left or right, it affects my speedtest.net results massively.
Im guessing theirs some inteference going on. Id like to try this on a dualband router.
Anyways so far im happy but i want the wireless more solid on speeds.
Lastly, speedtest.net is the only test that seems to be giving higher results. All other ones isn't. Which is the best site to test on?
What wifi channel is configured for 54g? Can you see any 3rd party wifi networks in your area? What channel(s) are they on?
As I'm sure others have said, 2.4GHz 802.11g is rubbish. They claim 54meg but you're lucky to get half of that. The supplied Netgear WNR2000 also uses this 2.4GHz band for draft 2.0 N but only has one radio so if there is other 802.11g traffic around it can slow your n speeds down to a similar level. Only if there are no other networks around may you see benefits from draft n on 2.4GHz.
I run a dual-band wifi setup with a separate 5GHz draft 2.0 N radio in both router and dongle. It is better and both throughput and latency are improved. I get maybe 60Mb out of it at peak, but generally less. It claims a connection speed of just over 100Mb of which I can use about half.
systematic
05-06-2009, 13:35
What wifi channel is configured for 54g? Can you see any 3rd party wifi networks in your area? What channel(s) are they on?
As I'm sure others have said, 2.4GHz 802.11g is rubbish. They claim 54meg but you're lucky to get half of that. The supplied Netgear WNR2000 also uses this 2.4GHz band for draft 2.0 N but only has one radio so if there is other 802.11g traffic around it can slow your n speeds down to a similar level. Only if there are no other networks around may you see benefits from draft n on 2.4GHz.
I run a dual-band wifi setup with a separate 5GHz draft 2.0 N radio in both router and dongle. It is better and both throughput and latency are improved. I get maybe 60Mb out of it at peak, but generally less. It claims a connection speed of just over 100Mb of which I can use about half.
Ok 3 signals in my area all using channel 1, 6 and 11.
Im using channel 7 OR 9.
When you move the wireless dongle 2cm to left or right of where it is right now - the speed fgoes from 44mbit to 31 or below.
So what's causing the speed to drop so low with such a small movement. Answer (i think) - inteference.
I want to get a dualband router and run this connection on a 5ghz band.
That is exactly what ive been saying all along. Run this biatch on 5ghz.
What dual band router are you using?
Ok 3 signals in my area all using channel 1, 6 and 11.
Im using channel 7 OR 9.
When you move the wireless dongle 2cm to left or right of where it is right now - the speed fgoes from 44mbit to 31 or below.
So what's causing the speed to drop so low with such a small movement. Answer (i think) - inteference.
I want to get a dualband router and run this connection on a 5ghz band.
That is exactly what ive been saying all along. Run this biatch on 5ghz.
What dual band router are you using?
Channel 8 would make more sense for you
systematic
05-06-2009, 13:44
Channel 8 would make more sense for you
Cool.
I was actually looking at dual band routers and truth be told, none of them stand out. Well my research has narrowed it down to the following 3 (in order of how good they are)
1. DLINK DIR825
2. Airport Extreme
3. Linksys WRT600/610N
The Linksys routers are apparently cack until you hack the firmware with ddwrt or tomato.
The DLINK seems to be the best contender but im not too keen (alot of people making hoohas about it requiring frequent resets)
The best dual band device by far is the Cisco Aironet 1250 or 1252. This is not a router though (it's an AP) and the problem - £500 +
Ok 3 signals in my area all using channel 1, 6 and 11.
Im using channel 7 OR 9.
There are only 3 discreet channels on 802.11g 2.4GHz - 1, 6 and 11 - all the others overlap as you'll see from the attached image.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2009/06/52.png
Sadly, all of those channels are used up in your area. You'll see your options from the graph and how much each choice may overlap with your neighbours. You also should be able to see from your PC how strong each signal is. Is one significantly weaker than the other 2?
Whatever you do, you're always going to be conflicting with one or more of your neighbours. If you choose 1, 6 or 11, you'll conflict directly with the associated neighbour. If you choose 2-5 or 7-10, you'll conflict with 2 of them but not head on. If you know the guy who is on channel 6, you'd could ask him to move to channel 8. Then you could have channels 1, 4, 8 and 11 in your area and create minimal overlap - but it would still likely suck a bit.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2009/06/90.jpg
If you don't know your neighbours, things get even harder. Personally I would find which neighbour has the lowest signal strength and move your kit onto that exact channel. Ensure the radio strength is maximum. If you can, move your router onto that side of your property and do everything you can to clash. This will likely screw his connection up a bit and it his router is set to auto, it will move itself away from that channel. If it's manual, he may reconfigure it himself. Whatever happens, with this setup, you'll only be clashing with one neighbour and, if you manage to drive that person onto another channel it may help a lot. All harsh I know, but needs must :D
Alternatively, do what i did and move house to a big plot with no neighbours in range ;)
When you move the wireless dongle 2cm to left or right of where it is right now - the speed fgoes from 44mbit to 31 or below.
So what's causing the speed to drop so low with such a small movement. Answer (i think) - inteference.
Speedtest.net isn't that reliable anyway so you're unlikely to get consistent results even if you were peforming the test in a vacuum.
I want to get a dualband router and run this connection on a 5ghz band.
That is exactly what ive been saying all along. Run this biatch on 5ghz.
What dual band router are you using?
You'll need both a dual-band router with a separate radio for 5GHz and a matching dual-band dongle that will also handle 5Ghz.
I got the D-Link DIR-825 and the D-Link 160 dongle. The router works extremely well and it's QoS is the best I've ever used. The dongle does the job and gets the throughput, but the orange LED on it is too bright and annoying. I also expected the 5GHz range to be better than it is - it's only marginally better than 2.4GHz on my property.
---------- Post added at 14:05 ---------- Previous post was at 14:03 ----------
Channel 8 would make more sense for you
As you'll see from the info above, it won't. 8 & 9 would be exactly the same, if the neighbours are the same distance apart.
Cool.
I was actually looking at dual band routers and truth be told, none of them stand out. Well my research has narrowed it down to the following 3 (in order of how good they are)
1. DLINK DIR825
2. Airport Extreme
3. Linksys WRT600/610N
The Linksys routers are apparently cack until you hack the firmware with ddwrt or tomato.
The DLINK seems to be the best contender but im not too keen (alot of people making hoohas about it requiring frequent resets)
The best dual band device by far is the Cisco Aironet 1250 or 1252. This is not a router though (it's an AP) and the problem - £500 +
I have tried routers from Netgear,Linksys and a cheaper Belkin router,If you dont mind paying a little extra for a decent router have a look at the Belkin N1 Vision this has given me the best performance and now I can max out my 50 meg connection via my laptop.
I have tried routers from Netgear,Linksys and a cheaper Belkin router,If you dont mind paying a little extra for a decent router have a look at the Belkin N1 Vision this has given me the best performance and now I can max out my 50 meg connection via my laptop.
Wired or wireless?
Anything should max 50Mb wired.
systematic
05-06-2009, 16:25
I have tried routers from Netgear,Linksys and a cheaper Belkin router,If you dont mind paying a little extra for a decent router have a look at the Belkin N1 Vision this has given me the best performance and now I can max out my 50 meg connection via my laptop.
Belkin N1 vision - not my cuppa cha:
http://reviews.cnet.com/routers/belkin-n1-vision/4505-3319_7-32537863.html
Im willing to pay about £150.00 for a decent dualband router but the DLINK 825 is the leading contender thus far.
Ignitionnet
05-06-2009, 16:26
Wired or wireless?
Anything should max 50Mb wired.
LAN to LAN sure but WAN to LAN no, a lot of routers and especially older ones won't be able to do 50Mbit. It's one thing to just push the bits between switched ports but from WAN To LAN with the NAT, any firewalling, etc, that needs doing needs a bit more grunt and some routers such as the Linksys mentioned earlier aren't capable.
Zhadnost
05-06-2009, 16:27
Still, if you can, hacking it to channel 14 or using a 5Ghz AP can help.
Personally I hate wireless and only use it for my mobile phone. (and TV media box thingy until I run a cable to it).
LAN to LAN sure but WAN to LAN no, a lot of routers and especially older ones won't be able to do 50Mbit. It's one thing to just push the bits between switched ports but from WAN To LAN with the NAT, any firewalling, etc, that needs doing needs a bit more grunt and some routers such as the Linksys mentioned earlier aren't capable.
Honestly, the Linksys mentioned earlier is more than capable. I should know, i've done it.
Linksys WRT54G v5 w/ DD-WRT.
Max throughput, WAN -> LAN was 85+Mb/s sustained. This was with SPI firewall on.
Anything with a 100Mb port on the WAN side should be able to produce half of it to LAN.
Belkin N1 vision - not my cuppa cha:
http://reviews.cnet.com/routers/belkin-n1-vision/4505-3319_7-32537863.html
Im willing to pay about £150.00 for a decent dualband router but the DLINK 825 is the leading contender thus far.
I got mine for £99.99 from play.com, although they did take far too long to deliver mine in the end. They also had a deal for £40 off the dual-band dongle when bought with the router.
linksys wrt54gv2 with tomato or the dd-wrt couldnt use 50megs even on wired. capped around 30
linksys wrt54gv2 with tomato or the dd-wrt couldnt use 50megs even on wired. capped around 30
Seriously?
Man... My v5 had half the memory of V1-4 as well...
I sold my V5 on eBay, made a small presentation on its capabilities at the time. Wish i still had it.
it was working fine on the same downloads without a router and with the netgear on. with linksys it was **** :/
Zhadnost
05-06-2009, 17:41
linksys wrt54gv2 with tomato or the dd-wrt couldnt use 50megs even on wired. capped around 30
It would be hardly surprising, most of the work was done by a MIPS R4 core @ 200Mhz, you can't expect too much from it.
Although, does seem to be able to handle VPN with compression rather well on a slower connection, so I guess it is a bit of a shock.
Pantsu-san
05-06-2009, 18:36
Better but still not 50mbit. I want 50mbit!!
Wow. Just wow. :shocked:
Wired or wireless?
Anything should max 50Mb wired.
I get 50meg on both now and according to the routers display ive been able to download at 57 meg which is even better.
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