View Full Version : beyond words with VM support
xero01uk
27-01-2009, 18:32
due to private area of this email i have only included the main points
At the moment words can not describe how annoyed and angry i am, i have spent the day troubleshooting the router with VM me yesterday, i have benn on the phone to Netgear for 2 hours today trying to fix a fault with the router as it will not forward any ports i add into.
I run various PC game dedicated servers of an evening for a group i run, and the router is not forwarding the ports i enter, with Netgear support i have upgraded to various firmwares and tried various settings from changing the MTU to actully putting the router into DMZ mode, and nothing as worked, so Netgear suggested i ring VM. Now this is where my major ploblems start at this moment in time i am still on the phone to VM support after 1hr and 30 mins, i have spoken to various departments ranging from 50mb tech support, customer services, all the way down to sales. No one seems to know who i need to speak to, nor who deals with replacements.
Ive also had various excuses along the longs, a few are as follows: "Sorry Sir, we dont offer Wireless N routers to 50mb customers" "we dont do replacments" "replacments come from Netgear". I know for a fact that equipment supplied by VM have to be replaced by VM and not Netgear.
due to private area of this email i have only included the main points
The Netgear wireless N router is provided by and supported only by Netgear not Virgin at this time, so your knowing for a fact that they support their equipment only relates to equipment that they actually supply no other equipment.
xero01uk
27-01-2009, 18:57
ok then smartbum, why have i finally just got off the phone and i have a new wifi N router on its way?
ok then smartbum, why have i finally just got off the phone and i have a new wifi N router on its way?
Probably your charm won them over....;)
ok then smartbum, why have i finally just got off the phone and i have a new wifi N router on its way?
It will come direct from Netgear who will then also support it, Virgin do not hold any stock of that router.
xero01uk
27-01-2009, 19:25
yes i know that, but if you want a replacement you HAVE to go though VM
xero01uk ... count to 10 and take a chill pill :)
You're obviously frustrated that you can't play or host your games but it's not the end of the world is it?
yes i know that, but if you want a replacement you HAVE to go though VM
How come a brand new router appears to have failed at the first hurdle, has anyone explained what the problem was to you.
chickendippers
27-01-2009, 21:09
Please provide some more information so someone can possibly suggest something helpful. I.e. What tier you're on (you make a passing reference to XXL), how long you've had this problem, has it worked before, what previous equipment did you have, does it work when connected directly to the modem? etc etc.
xero01uk
27-01-2009, 21:40
well guess whats happened..
ive just had 2 phone calls, 1 off the Head of Opperations and the other was off head of the 50mb area, ive got an head engineer ringing me in the next hour to troubleshoot over the phone, AND ive got a visit off the head of opperations and a head engineer tomorrow evening at 5pm!!
talk about service
moaningmags
27-01-2009, 21:41
well guess whats happened..
ive just had 2 phone calls, 1 off the Head of Opperations and the other was off head of the 50mb area, ive got an head engineer ringing me in the next hour to troubleshoot over the phone, AND ive got a visit off the head of opperations and a head engineer tomorrow evening at 5pm!!
talk about service
Hopefully they'll get you sorted.
love2learn
27-01-2009, 21:51
As an experiment you should phone Tech support when the Indian shift has started after 7pm. They'll just hang up on you everytime you say something they don't know about. Happened to me 3 times
Quote:
Originally Posted by xero01uk http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12/33644988-beyond-words-with-vm-support.html#post34723151)
due to private area of this email i have only included the main points
The Netgear wireless N router is provided by and supported only by Netgear not Virgin at this time, so your knowing for a fact that they support their equipment only relates to equipment that they actually supply no other equipment.
if thats what your VM line management/WAN is telling you or thats what you really THINK, then you dont know your most basic UK consumer law very well then Moldova.
,xero01uk is clearly on the 50Mbit/s DS3 XXl package, VM are the contracted supplyer of the services he has payed for, Virgin Media have charged all XXL customers including him that £50 hidden charge for the 11n wireless router they insist all 50Mbit customers take as part of the package ,plus the £30 re-activation fee, for the total of £80 as the so called one off service charge.
VM insist he takes this extra wireless router unit+usb2 11n stick as part of the basic xxl package, they have billed/taken the money,shipped/installed the hardware, and activated the 50Mbit service, under UK consumer and other related law they and they alone are responsable for their part of the contract and all parts of the service and goods they are insisting he pay for and charging for regarding the XXL services....
the 3rd party Netgear kit VM charge for and insist XXL customers use is no concern to any consumer, as all VM customers RENT all the kit off Virgin Media.
the very fact Vm are secretly charging customers (£50)for the 11n wireless devices they neather need nor perhaps want is also questionable in law....but perhaps thats for another related thread and the county courts small claims, the key point here being all VM customers pay the rental fees for the cable kit and pay for the VM services in advance, in law its Virgin media's responsability to supply goods and services fit for purpose and no other partys (Netgear)responsability.
---------- Post added at 23:45 ---------- Previous post was at 23:33 ----------
xero01uk ... count to 10 and take a chill pill :)
You're obviously frustrated that you can't play or host your games but it's not the end of the world is it?
LOL, can you blame him, after they take an £80 so called installation fee, plus a months XXL fees in advance, and to top it off supply an apparently bad router :rolleyes:
xero, did you try directly connectign the DS3 CM directly to your pc's ethernet, or at least go back to your old working 11g wireless router as a temp slow fix ?
moaningmags
27-01-2009, 23:53
IMO the router being supported directly by Netgear is a good thing.
The normal routers with embedded firmware, the most we touch is basic settings and wireless settings.
We don't touch port forwarding or mac filtering or anything else.
The new router for 50meg getting support directly from Netgear allows customers to get better help and information on the various things they may want to do with the router.
IMO the router being supported directly by Netgear is a good thing.
The normal routers with embedded firmware, the most we touch is basic settings and wireless settings.
We don't touch port forwarding or mac filtering or anything else.
The new router for 50meg getting support directly from Netgear allows customers to get better help and information on the various things they may want to do with the router.
sure, you can justify it anyway you like, and come to the conclusion its a good thing VM contract Netgear to do their 3rd party support as its cheaper/more cost effective in PR speak ;) than doing it inhouse, BUT thats a totally seperate thing between Virgin Media and Netgear to sort out under their commercial contracts.
VM pay a wad (of customers cash)for a bulk purchase of lowest cost cut NG 11n kit, NG slack off on the QC testing to save cash, and their line managers let a lot of borderline/bad batch PCBs/firmware through shipping, and the VM customers pay the price in time and money etc,etc, its all good for the corporate profit margins...
BUT,VMs 3rd party supplyers commercial contracts have got absolutely nothing legally to do with the VM consumer contract customers rental/sevices contracts and virginmedia, any more than your broadband connection getting manually disconnected in error by the 3rd party crews VM accounts employ for when the billing system wrongly says your in arrears.... its still VM personels responsability to make sure they dont make these basic mistakes and put to it right at their expense when VM personel get it wrong and things go wrong isnt it.....
moaningmags
28-01-2009, 00:40
I wasn't justifying anything.
When it comes to routers, I as a customer would rather deal with the router manufacturer for support than with any isp.
As tech support, it's frustrating that we only do the basics for said routers and refer anything else to the manufacturer.
PC_Arcade
28-01-2009, 11:56
When it comes to routers, I as a customer would rather deal with the router manufacturer for support than with any isp.
You've obviously never phoned Belkin support then :eek:
if thats what your VM line management/WAN is telling you or thats what you really THINK, then you dont know your most basic UK consumer law very well then Moldova.
,xero01uk is clearly on the 50Mbit/s DS3 XXl package, VM are the contracted supplyer of the services he has payed for, Virgin Media have charged all XXL customers including him that £50 hidden charge for the 11n wireless router they insist all 50Mbit customers take as part of the package ,plus the £30 re-activation fee, for the total of £80 as the so called one off service charge.
VM insist he takes this extra wireless router unit+usb2 11n stick as part of the basic xxl package, they have billed/taken the money,shipped/installed the hardware, and activated the 50Mbit service, under UK consumer and other related law they and they alone are responsable for their part of the contract and all parts of the service and goods they are insisting he pay for and charging for regarding the XXL services....
the 3rd party Netgear kit VM charge for and insist XXL customers use is no concern to any consumer, as all VM customers RENT all the kit off Virgin Media.
the very fact Vm are secretly charging customers (£50)for the 11n wireless devices they neather need nor perhaps want is also questionable in law....but perhaps thats for another related thread and the county courts small claims, the key point here being all VM customers pay the rental fees for the cable kit and pay for the VM services in advance, in law its Virgin media's responsability to supply goods and services fit for purpose and no other partys (Netgear)responsability.
---------- Post added at 23:45 ---------- Previous post was at 23:33 ----------
LOL, can you blame him, after they take an £80 so called installation fee, plus a months XXL fees in advance, and to top it off supply an apparently bad router :rolleyes:
xero, did you try directly connectign the DS3 CM directly to your pc's ethernet, or at least go back to your old working 11g wireless router as a temp slow fix ?
If Virgin have Netgear providing support for a router suppled on there behalf by Netgear how can they be breaking the law as no Virgin call centre staff have not had any training on even any knowledge of this router, as this is the case I know who I would want to call for help and that would be the call centre who have the knowledge and training.
if thats what your VM line management/WAN is telling you or thats what you really THINK, then you dont know your most basic UK consumer law very well then Moldova.
,xero01uk is clearly on the 50Mbit/s DS3 XXl package, VM are the contracted supplyer of the services he has payed for, Virgin Media have charged all XXL customers including him that £50 hidden charge for the 11n wireless router they insist all 50Mbit customers take as part of the package ,plus the £30 re-activation fee, for the total of £80 as the so called one off service charge.
VM insist he takes this extra wireless router unit+usb2 11n stick as part of the basic xxl package, they have billed/taken the money,shipped/installed the hardware, and activated the 50Mbit service, under UK consumer and other related law they and they alone are responsable for their part of the contract and all parts of the service and goods they are insisting he pay for and charging for regarding the XXL services....
the 3rd party Netgear kit VM charge for and insist XXL customers use is no concern to any consumer, as all VM customers RENT all the kit off Virgin Media.
the very fact Vm are secretly charging customers (£50)for the 11n wireless devices they neather need nor perhaps want is also questionable in law....but perhaps thats for another related thread and the county courts small claims, the key point here being all VM customers pay the rental fees for the cable kit and pay for the VM services in advance, in law its Virgin media's responsability to supply goods and services fit for purpose and no other partys (Netgear)responsability.
---------- Post added at 23:45 ---------- Previous post was at 23:33 ----------
LOL, can you blame him, after they take an £80 so called installation fee, plus a months XXL fees in advance, and to top it off supply an apparently bad router :rolleyes:
xero, did you try directly connectign the DS3 CM directly to your pc's ethernet, or at least go back to your old working 11g wireless router as a temp slow fix ?
misinformed,illinformed,load of rubbish,.....take your pick virgin are not doing anything illegal!
misinformed,illinformed,load of rubbish,.....take your pick virgin are not doing anything illegal!
LOL i give you a bad rep (one of a very few iv ever given out in all my time here)for calling me the above, and you bad rep me instantly in return as a child might do, as you said "very grown up", no wonder i cant be bothered posting much or helping people around here anymore.....
you seem to equate breaking consumer contract law with breaking a criminal law, it would appear its you that needs to read up and get "informed" so you dont make this most basic mistake again in public, or not as the case may be if your happy as you are in your bliss.
as already implyed, i cant be bothered any more here to run off helping people learn new things they should already know but try reading some of these basic consumer links and get "informed" if you care to :rolleyes:
http://search.virginmedia.com/results/?channel=search&vml=ntl&vmt=&f=0&q=goods+and+services+consumer+contract+law+&cr=countryUK&x=25&y=8
as one example, see if you can put this in the right context and comprihend its meaning in relation to the consumer contract points made
"Grey and black lists
...Similarly upgraded are terms that limit the consumer's right to take legal action (e.g. a compulsory arbitration clause), restrict the evidence available or reverse the burden of proof on to the consumer.
Terms that give the trader the right to decide whether goods or services comply with the contract or to interpret any term of the contract are also banned..."
xero01uk
03-02-2009, 22:38
well all is sorted now they fitted me a PCI NIC and gave me a 5mtr network cable and im hitting 48mb
LOL i give you a bad rep (one of a very few iv ever given out in all my time here)for calling me the above, and you bad rep me in return as a child might do as you said "very grown up", no wonder i cant be bothered posting much or helping people around here anymore.....
you seem to equate breaking consumer contract law with breaking a criminal law, it would appear its you that needs to read up and get "informed" so you dont make this most basic mistake again in public, or not as the case may be if your happy as you are in your bliss.
as already implyed, i cant be bothered any more here to run off helping people learn new things they should already know but try reading some of these basic consumer links and get "informed" if you care to :rolleyes:
http://search.virginmedia.com/results/?channel=search&vml=ntl&vmt=&f=0&q=goods+and+services+consumer+contract+law+&cr=countryUK&x=25&y=8
as one example, see if you can put this in the right context and comprihend its meaning in relation to the consumer contract points made
"Grey and black lists
...Similarly upgraded are terms that limit the consumer's right to take legal action (e.g. a compulsory arbitration clause), restrict the evidence available or reverse the burden of proof on to the consumer.
Terms that give the trader the right to decide whether goods or services comply with the contract or to interpret any term of the contract are also banned..."
you seem to equate the big post must be right!
virgin in this instant are not breaking any laws consumer/criminal/other. you might not like the t &cs but that dosnt make it criminal.
---------- Post added at 22:45 ---------- Previous post was at 22:43 ----------
well all is sorted now they fitted me a PCI NIC and gave me a 5mtr network cable and im hitting 48mb
well thats good, was the nic card supplied and fitted by virgin?
Quote:
Originally Posted by xero01uk http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12/33644988-beyond-words-with-vm-support-page-2.html#post34727168)
well all is sorted now they fitted me a PCI NIC and gave me a 5mtr network cable and im hitting 48mb
...
well thats good, was the nic card supplied and fitted by virgin?
"they fitted me a PCI NIC " would seem to answer your question.... before you asked it, bliss :angel:
wow, I'm calling tomorrow. If I kick up enough fuss do you think I'll get a new PC out of them?
homealone
03-02-2009, 23:23
wow, I'm calling tomorrow. If I kick up enough fuss do you think I'll get a new PC out of them?
only if you can get one to fit a pci slot ;) :D
wow, I'm calling tomorrow. If I kick up enough fuss do you think I'll get a new PC out of them?
theres a slight difference between a bulk purchased £2 retail ethernet card, and a bulk purchased desktop/laptop and even netbook PC :D so perhaps not, unless they want you to sign a 10year XXL contract too, you might stand a chance then :shocked:
---------- Post added at 23:26 ---------- Previous post was at 23:24 ----------
only if you can get one to fit a pci slot ;) :D
you CAN, do a search for PC on a [PCI] card or some veriation on that, they do exist ;)
homealone
03-02-2009, 23:30
you CAN, do a search for PC on a [PCI] card or some veriation on that, they do exist ;)
prolly wouldn't have a spare slot for the nic ;)
well all is sorted now they fitted me a PCI NIC and gave me a 5mtr network cable and im hitting 48mb
thats really odd
"....i have spent the day troubleshooting the router with VM me yesterday, i have been on the phone to Netgear for 2 hours today trying to fix a fault with the router as it will not forward any ports i add into.
I run various PC game dedicated servers of an evening for a group i run, and the router is not forwarding the ports i enter,...."
how does changing your ethernet card make port forwarding in a totally seperate bit of kit work, as i say, very odd!
did they swap out the router too?, perhaps without you noticing :erm:
thats really odd
"....i have spent the day troubleshooting the router with VM me yesterday, i have been on the phone to Netgear for 2 hours today trying to fix a fault with the router as it will not forward any ports i add into.
I run various PC game dedicated servers of an evening for a group i run, and the router is not forwarding the ports i enter,...."
how does changing your ethernet card make port forwarding in a totally seperate bit of kit work, as i say, very odd!
did they swap out the router too?, perhaps without you noticing :erm:
or perhaps "they" didnt fit a nic card, or do virgin now modify customers hardware free of charge?
---------- Post added at 00:02 ---------- Previous post was at 00:00 ----------
"they fitted me a PCI NIC " would seem to answer your question.... before you asked it, bliss :angel:
the question was asked because if they did its a new policy
or perhaps "they" didnt fit a nic card, or do virgin now modify customers hardware free of charge?
---------- Post added at 00:02 ---------- Previous post was at 00:00 ----------
the question was asked because if they did its a new policy
"they fitted me a PCI NIC "
high ranking tech managers called out to a job commonly do what it takes to fix a fault and provide the service the customer is paying for, fitting a £2 ethernet card and swapping out a defective router while the high ranker is on site is a very common thing to appease the customer and is very common policy, its commonly called "good will" and is generally seen as a good thing for all concerned.
case in point, many techs would leave the £5/£10 USB to ethernet adaptors at a customers install, even when the customer didnt need them as they had, and wanted direct ethernet connections.
"they fitted me a PCI NIC "
high ranking tech managers called out to a job commonly do what it takes to fix a fault and provide the service the customer is paying for, fitting a £2 ethernet card and swapping out a defective router while the high ranker is on site is a very common thing to appease the customer and is very common policy, its commonly called "good will" and is generally seen as a good thing for all concerned.
case in point, many techs would leave the £5/£10 USB to ethernet adaptors at a customers install, even when the customer didnt need them as they had, and wanted direct ethernet connections.
nobody at virgin commonly take a customers pc apart, also what good would a usb ethernet adaptor be, they struggle to pass more than 6-7 meg. if you need to prove the fault is fixed you "commonly" use your own test kit.
xero01uk
04-02-2009, 10:44
jesus christ people why do you have to nit pick everything people say, why does it ALWAYS have to lead into a arguement! ffs!
anyway for your info and to clear up ALL questions, i got the wording wrong, they gave me the NIC and i fitted it (they brought one from PC World) happy if not then bugger you, next on the list.. router and port forwarding, since im on a cable the old wireless G router IS (and this info is CORRECT) capable of 50mb via a wire as its a 100mb wired router, so im using the old 'G' wifi has been turned OFF, and i have kepted the 'N' router just in case
and as to say people dont believe me
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2009/02/40.png speed test taken 2 mins ago
so in total VM have given me £70 in credits on my bill, gave me a PCI NIC card + cable and been very helpfull
EDIT: on a side note i had the main network engineer from Wolverhampton attend, and he did actully offer to fit the NIC if i didnt know what i was doing
Ignitionnet
04-02-2009, 11:24
Pleased it all got sorted in the end dude.
I think I'm going to be sick
"they fitted me a PCI NIC " would seem to answer your question.... before you asked it, bliss :angel:
it didnt though did it.......bliss :angel:
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