View Full Version : Bittorrent On VM
Ignitionnet
11-09-2008, 22:50
I'm curious if anyone else is seeing some unexplained behaviour while using Bittorrent on Virgin Media.
I have done the usual tricks and am permitted 50 half-open connections simultaneously so that is NOT the issue in question.
I have checked my router and its' NAT table isn't even close to full.
I have checked the connection to ensure I'm not seeing any issues with bandwidth utilisation. The connection is going no higher than 60% upstream utilisation and isn't even close on downstream.
Pings show the odd spike but nothing to write home about:
Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.251.195] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.251.195: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=118
Reply from 212.58.251.195: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=118
Reply from 212.58.251.195: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=118
Reply from 212.58.251.195: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=118
So why oh why is my browsing utterly mashed to the point of being unusable?
Something to do with these at a guess:
Ah Yes... The columns are:
Frame Number - Time Since Capture Start - Source - Destination - Protocol - Source Port > Destination Port - TCP Flags - Summary
1282 13.113980 192.168.100.2 87.106.129.133 TCP udpradio > http [SYN] Seq=0 Win=16384 Len=0 MSS=1460
1300 13.243386 87.106.129.133 192.168.100.2 TCP http > udpradio [SYN, ACK] Seq=0 Ack=1 Win=5840 Len=0 MSS=1380
1301 13.243417 192.168.100.2 87.106.129.133 TCP udpradio > http [ACK] Seq=1 Ack=1 Win=16560 Len=0
1302 13.243611 192.168.100.2 87.106.129.133 HTTP GET /board/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=12 HTTP/1.1
1661 16.236539 192.168.100.2 87.106.129.133 HTTP [TCP Retransmission] GET /board/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=12 HTTP/1.1
2420 22.171080 192.168.100.2 87.106.129.133 HTTP [TCP Retransmission] GET /board/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=12 HTTP/1.1
2431 22.336216 87.106.129.133 192.168.100.2 TCP [TCP Previous segment lost] http > udpradio [ACK] Seq=2761 Ack=843 Win=6736 Len=0 SLE=1 SRE=843
6337 50.572019 192.168.100.2 87.106.129.133 TCP udpradio > http [FIN, ACK] Seq=843 Ack=1 Win=16560 Len=0
6356 50.747083 87.106.129.133 192.168.100.2 TCP http > udpradio [ACK] Seq=2761 Ack=844 Win=6736 Len=0
For the curious this also proves that I don't have a problem with half open connections - the connection was open I just couldn't do anything with it for whatever reason :(
It also eliminates the possiblity that it's my router - the SYN, SYN-ACK was already done and the connection had been set up in my router's NAT table already.
The first bit was fine, the next bit was loss central then my machine gave up and just sent the FIN to CF.
Is this normal behaviour while using a not particularly challenging amount of Torrent bandwidth? More to the point why?
Impz2002
11-09-2008, 23:13
im having the same issues and are yet to find a solution. whenever i get a torrent going with utorrent my browsing just stops working and as soon as i stop the torrent it magically starts working again !
Impz
Ignitionnet
11-09-2008, 23:20
It bothers me a bit the first bit was absolute fine, 130ms to get the connection open then send the HTTP GET which is fine, then one request gets incredibly delayed and two others get lost. :(
Jonathan90
12-09-2008, 00:02
do you leave it going for 5 minutes then try or do you try straight away within the first few minutes your connection is going to be dodgy cause of all the connections its making also routers just complicate the problem if modems can jsut about handle torrent connections etc (people say there modem reset etc) then router just make it worse have u tried without router leave the torrent going for 5 to 10 minutes then try browsing.
Ignitionnet
12-09-2008, 08:54
do you leave it going for 5 minutes then try or do you try straight away within the first few minutes your connection is going to be dodgy cause of all the connections its making also routers just complicate the problem if modems can jsut about handle torrent connections etc (people say there modem reset etc) then router just make it worse have u tried without router leave the torrent going for 5 to 10 minutes then try browsing.
Have a read of my OP again when you've a moment - the NAT table entry in the router is present as the SYN - SYN-ACK - ACK goes fine, and obviously I'm not at TCP/IP stack half-open connections limit as the TCP connection is opened fine. It's the HTTP GET that disappears into the ether twice and is severely delayed once.
pachelbel
12-09-2008, 09:54
im having the same issues and are yet to find a solution. whenever i get a torrent going with utorrent my browsing just stops working and as soon as i stop the torrent it magically starts working again !
Impz
I had the same issue when I upgraded to utorrent 1.8. I seem to have cured the problem by going into preferences and unchecking all boxes in bitorrent section apart from 'ask tracker for scrape info. I also unchecked all boxes in connection section apart from firewall option. I know nothing about it but it seems to work for me. Running utorrent & emule kills my browing whatever upload/download limits I set.
Im on a good 10 meg connection *touches wood*, if i leave downloads and uploads unlimited (or at max up, ~70Kb/s) then my browsing goes to crap, This is even if im downloading somithing at 50Kb/s. If i cap them both to ~800Kb/s down and ~45Kb/s up then browsing returns to normal.
Dont know if this will help you, but works fine for me
Ignitionnet
12-09-2008, 10:15
Maybe this is something to add as a comment to the blog at http://onewayinternet.blogspot.com/
I think I'm spoiled from having better upstream connections perhaps, either way it's pants.
its wasnt just utorrent, it was any torrent clients running in the background last night,i tryed several different ones, im not good at traceing with wireshark etc but if you run your capture though it again i bet somewere along the VM path something funky was going on with the udpradio as the torrent paths were intercepted.
next time try tunneling through to a totally non VM end point with the tor/Vidalia Bundle for instance and i bet you get through to 87.106.129.133 (i assume CF but cant be bothered to check the ip ;) )
theres definately something funky going on in sections of VM at times such as last night, dont know if its routing, DPI settings in some kit or what, but you are in a far better position to sus that and report back to keep us informed ;)
---------- Post added at 10:33 ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 ----------
Maybe this is something to add as a comment to the blog at http://onewayinternet.blogspot.com/
I think I'm spoiled from having better upstream connections perhaps, either way it's pants.
i cant or wont add anything there until Ignition gets around to changing the settings to allow for annon posting on the blog.
blogging is a good way to get the word out today,as its tracked far more widely than average webpages today,but i refuse to keep registering just to comment there, and its clear Ignition is reading our threads as the comment "As someone kindly reminded me" makes plain ;) ,that should read "someone called Popper reminds us" btw Ignition :D
Ignitionnet
12-09-2008, 10:33
Hi Popper,
UDPRadio was just the label that Wireshark has for the port my machine was using to send the requests to CF, port 1833.
I'll look into it some more tonight.
If you check he's also taken your advice at some point, blog allows anon comments now. I just had a nose and could leave one, not entirely sure what to say though for once in my life :p:
:) had this issue 2-3 years ago
turned out to be my Scientific Atlanta EPC2100 REVISION (1) that was causing the issue
couldnt cope with the traffic..
infact even if i opened utorrent or bit commet and left it for 5 mins with NOTHING downloading
it would still lock up my browsing..
i was using a router too... turned out it was the modem..
got it changed for a motorolla and all of a sudden things were hunkeh dorreh
One of the reasons i dont use Bittorrent any more.
Andrewcrawford23
12-09-2008, 11:18
If you want to use torrent you should try torrentflux since it handles it different ie just like a web page it doesn't affects your browsing much unless your daft enough to set upload to 100%, it also doesnt have that high a load on it, only down side is you need to install it on *nix server so you one of them first
If you want to use torrent you should try torrentflux since it handles it different ie just like a web page it doesn't affects your browsing much unless your daft enough to set upload to 100%, it also doesnt have that high a load on it, only down side is you need to install it on *nix server so you one of them first
no it isnt andrew, TorrentFlux is just a PHP based front end to the generic torrent client Bit Tornado package (Requires Python 2.0+,wxPython for the GUI client)
http://www.bittornado.com/download.html
and you dont need to use it on linux (although that will be your better choice OC , a simple slax LiveCD/USB and now even PXE lan booting in the latest test CD ISO or even a VirtualBox install on one of your near idol LAN PCs will do just fine)
any PHP based self contained install +webserver will do http://www.uniformserver.com/ for instance.
Ignitionnet
12-09-2008, 11:38
Torrentflux is just a web front end for Bit Tornado. Installing a web GUI on a remote *nix / PHP compliant box to manage a torrent client sitting on my PC is a tad pointless and doesn't really achieve the aim. Still have masses of connections stemming from where the torrent app is actually running. It's not the GUI that's my problem.
Agreed Sirius however it's a World of Warcraft patch which is distributed by BT.
I tried bittorrent for the first time a few days ago to drag down a 3.5Gb file (not it wasn't warez, but instead Centos5.2DVD. Didn;t have a problem on etheir my routed connection or my direct connections and the 10Mb got maxed out on both
I tried bittorrent for the first time a few days ago to drag down a 3.5Gb file (not it wasn't warez, but instead Centos5.2DVD. Didn;t have a problem on etheir my routed connection or my direct connections and the 10Mb got maxed out on both
funny enough thats quite usual the first time you install a torrent client on a VM machine when grabbing *nix, however if you continue to seed it for a a few days (back to that crappy up/down ratio again ;) ) as is required to be a good torrenter in the community, watch as Vm (or whoever)track your usage and bang, you find its suddenly gone to pot, take it off for a few days or after you get a new Ip such as when they are going UBr work/reseg etc and torrent use speeds is back to a good speed as your seeing for a few hours perhaps.
Andrewcrawford23
12-09-2008, 12:03
no it isnt andrew, TorrentFlux is just a PHP based front end to the generic torrent client Bit Tornado package (Requires Python 2.0+,wxPython for the GUI client)
http://www.bittornado.com/download.html
and you dont need to use it on linux (although that will be your better choice OC , a simple slax LiveCD/USB and now even PXE lan booting in the latest test CD ISO or even a VirtualBox install on one of your near idol LAN PCs will do just fine)
any PHP based self contained install +webserver will do http://www.uniformserver.com/ for instance.
It doesnt work to well on windows ;) i have tried it plenty of times.
I can assure it doesnt run bittorando on *nix the program is based off it but it is not a front end well not on *nix never got it up and running properly on windows so cant comment on that
andrew and anyone else thats interested have a read of this
http://www.linux.com/feature/129448 to get upto speed with .
"
TorrentFlux: A BitTorrent client on a server
By Kurt Edelbrock (kedelbrock@gmail.com) on March 20, 2008 (6:00:00 PM)
Download Failed (1) Share (http://www.addthis.com/bookmark.php) Download Failed (1) Print (http://www.linux.com/feature/129448?theme=print) Download Failed (1) Comments (http://www.linux.com/articles/129448#commentthis)
TorrentFlux (http://torrentflux.com/) is a BitTorrent client that runs on top of a server running Apache, MySQL, and PHP.
It extends the functionality of traditional clients by operating almost entirely through a Web browser interface.
It uses the BitTornado (http://www.bittornado.com/) client in the background to manage the queuing, downloading, and seeding of torrent files.
You can run TorrentFlux on your home machine and access it through a folder on a Web server. You can also install it on an external host to increase bandwidth and transfer speeds.
..
"
Andrewcrawford23
12-09-2008, 12:08
andrew and anyone else thats interested have a read of this
http://www.linux.com/feature/129448 to get upto speed with .
"
TorrentFlux: A BitTorrent client on a server
By Kurt Edelbrock (kedelbrock@gmail.com) on March 20, 2008 (6:00:00 PM)
http://c.fsdn.com/lc/images/tango-icon-theme/16x16/status/mail-attachment.png Share (http://www.addthis.com/bookmark.php) http://www.cableforum.co.uk/themes/linux/images/tango-icon-theme/16x16/devices/printer.png Print (http://www.linux.com/feature/129448?theme=print) http://www.cableforum.co.uk/themes/linux/images/comments.png Comments (http://www.linux.com/articles/129448#commentthis)
TorrentFlux (http://torrentflux.com/) is a BitTorrent client that runs on top of a server running Apache, MySQL, and PHP.
It extends the functionality of traditional clients by operating almost entirely through a Web browser interface.
It uses the BitTornado (http://www.bittornado.com/) client in the background to manage the queuing, downloading, and seeding of torrent files.
You can run TorrentFlux on your home machine and access it through a folder on a Web server. You can also install it on an external host to increase bandwidth and transfer speeds.
..
"
I can assure you bittorando is not running on my linux machine i said i can not comment on windows but it is DEFINITELY not running on my linux box i have checked several times
It doesnt work to well on windows ;) i have tried it plenty of times.
I can assure it doesnt run bit tornado on *nix the program is based off it but it is not a front end well not on *nix never got it up and running properly on windows so cant comment on that
have you even looked at the code, it even says so right there, on the front page
http://www.torrentflux.com/
"TorrentFlux is an web-based system for managing bit torrent file transfers. It is an open source package (GPL) and developed for Linux, Unix & BSD platforms on the ubiquitous LAMP stack.
"
"The transfer themselves are performed on top of the Bit Tornado package, TorrentFlux provides a web interface for these scripts and the ability to manage multiple transfers, users and even protocols (receive completed files via http) all from the web gui. Read more... (http://www.torrentflux.com/about.php) "
Andrewcrawford23
12-09-2008, 12:14
have you even looked at the code, it even says so right there, on the front page
http://www.torrentflux.com/
"The transfer themselves are performed on top of the Bit Tornado package, TorrentFlux provides a web interface for these scripts and the ability to manage multiple transfers, users and even protocols (receive completed files via http) all from the web gui. Read more... (http://www.torrentflux.com/about.php) "
Yes i known what it says, but what it does is in reality different i can not explain how it does it i can only say i have not yet found the program
look at it's PHP code and you will find its passing all its web http GUI input/output to and from Bit Tornado
Ignitionnet
12-09-2008, 12:27
Yes i known what it says, but what it does is in reality different i can not explain how it does it i can only say i have not yet found the program
Opening up the .tar.gz I'd guess that the directory torrentflux_2.4/html/TF_BitTornado/ is going to be where the client itself lurks.
Three sub-directories of TF_BitTornado in the tarball, /BitTornado, /BitTornado/BT1 and /original_src
there you go andrew i found the answer for you and any other interested readers for that matter.
http://forums.degreez.net/viewtopic.php?t=4162&highlight=flux
...
the only modified part of the bit tornado that torrentflux uses is a modifed btdownloadheadless.py script that uses the BitTornado 0.3.8 client.
Impz2002
12-09-2008, 12:37
torrent flux is just a front end for BitTornado, simple as !
I am unsure weather this issue is really a dodgy underhand VM DPI style tactic of weather it is a real technical issue. I use windows vista and i have patched the limited half open TCP Ports option which dosnt solve the issue. It would be interesting to know how far these HTTP requests are getting into VM's network before they start getting lost. I wonder if its at UBR level or at the CMTS. DPI stuff is most likely to happen nearer the CMTS as far as i can imagine with the practicalities of installing the kit in the UBR's and all.
Anyone care to enligten me ? i would run some tests but im at work at the moment on a crappy BT 6meg ADSL line :(
Impz
Ignitionnet
12-09-2008, 12:46
CMTS = Cable Modem Termination System = uBR just to mention :)
No idea what's going on to be honest. Will see what I can find out on a website I own. Will monitor connection end to end.
impz you should setup a ssl to your VM master machine and tunnel in...
of all places this came up the other day ,go ElReg ;)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/01/openvpn_primer/page2.html
VPN security - if you want it, come and get it
Andrewcrawford23
12-09-2008, 12:52
there you go andrew i found the answer for you and any other interested readers for that matter.
http://forums.degreez.net/viewtopic.php?t=4162&highlight=flux
...
the only modified part of the bit tornado that torrentflux uses is a modifed btdownloadheadless.py script that uses the BitTornado 0.3.8 client.
Fair enough,
But i have yet to find any istance of the bit torando running on my achine.
Anyway back to the original poster if it a stechincal support are claiming it because of hte connection running the torrents on another machines and makign sure the bandiwdth isnt 100% used will then says the problem isnt with the client machine. As the linux box use far less power in terms of cpu, memory and networking that windows box does
Ignitionnet
12-09-2008, 13:01
Andrew, it's not an issue with CPU, memory or bandwidth I have checked them all on the XP machine and it was fine. This machine has 2GB of RAM and a dual core CPU, easily capable of running uTorrent.
Checking the half-open connections I've proven that there were no issues with the XP TCP/IP stack with the trace I took and likewise proved out my router.
I'll do some more detailed analysis later tonight I think to a test node that I control taking traces from both sides simultaneously.
Impz2002
12-09-2008, 13:15
CMTS = Cable Modem Termination System = uBR just to mention :)
Hmm i always thought the CMTS was the head end ? oh well i stand corrected !
Impz
Ignitionnet
12-09-2008, 13:24
Hmm i always thought the CMTS was the head end ? oh well i stand corrected !
Impz
Well it's usually at the head-end / hubsite, but yeah that's what it stands for, Cable Modem Termination System, that bit of tin the cable modems talk to :)
uBR is Cisco's CMTS, Universal Broadband Router, Motorola make the BSR, Broadband Services Router, etc, etc.
Andrewcrawford23
12-09-2008, 13:24
Andrew, it's not an issue with CPU, memory or bandwidth I have checked them all on the XP machine and it was fine. This machine has 2GB of RAM and a dual core CPU, easily capable of running uTorrent.
Checking the half-open connections I've proven that there were no issues with the XP TCP/IP stack with the trace I took and likewise proved out my router.
I'll do some more detailed analysis later tonight I think to a test node that I control taking traces from both sides simultaneously.
I know it not a issue...... but if support can not blame it on that then you have mroe reason to get them to look into......
I am well aware that virgin are probabaly trialign something and by such accoutn ruling out certains thing by taking them out of the picture give you more to fight back with suppor twith
EDIT: Broadbanding - Do you want me to speak in techincal speak and with tehcincal knownledge so you will not quote me and try to correct me so you know wha ti am implying? because it is quite annoying you always trying to inform me of thing i know about jsut because i am speaking in lower language that people with no knowledge can udnerstand
Ignitionnet
12-09-2008, 13:36
I was the original poster so was answering your post to me?
Anyway back to the original poster
That was me :)
EDIT: I'm not going to waste my time going to 1st line support with this, would be painful. I'd rather continue checking it out until I have something definitive. The trace I took eliminates any issues on my side anyway, network card listening in verbose mode, didn't see any responses until very very late and 2 of 3 lost, then nothing for rest of flow until it timed out.
Andrewcrawford23
12-09-2008, 13:46
I was the original poster so was answering your post to me?
That was me :)
EDIT: I'm not going to waste my time going to 1st line support with this, would be painful. I'd rather continue checking it out until I have something definitive. The trace I took eliminates any issues on my side anyway, network card listening in verbose mode, didn't see any responses until very very late and 2 of 3 lost, then nothing for rest of flow until it timed out.
Ok well i am really daft then because i am sure i read the poster as something starting with i, apogolise then
Impz2002
12-09-2008, 15:09
Im starting to think this is VM's new way of crippling service. It seems strange that it only affects torrents !
Very sneaky !
Impz
Andrewcrawford23
12-09-2008, 15:22
Im starting to think this is VM's new way of crippling service. It seems strange that it only affects torrents !
Very sneaky !
Impz
No no, virgin dnt want to cripple yoru service ;) they want you to pay £40 a month for it then never use it ;)
Jonathan90
12-09-2008, 15:38
no offence but amybe your ain't got it configured right or something mines fine when configured correctly oh and another thing huge swamped torrents can cause crap browsing try the openoffice torrent
---------- Post added at 15:38 ---------- Previous post was at 15:33 ----------
or even send me your settings from utorrent application data folder and i'll try a torrent with them
Downloading torrents fine here at 2.4MB/sec (20mbit connection). Maybe they are only doing it in a trial area, if they are throttling torrent connections. It might be a good idea for all those who think they are being throttled on bittorent to say what general area they are from to see if it is happening in the same place. I am in Blackpool and can download torrents no problem here, so the Blackpool/Preston area should be clear.
Ignitionnet
12-09-2008, 16:03
no offence but amybe your ain't got it configured right or something mines fine when configured correctly oh and another thing huge swamped torrents can cause crap browsing try the openoffice torrent
---------- Post added at 15:38 ---------- Previous post was at 15:33 ----------
or even send me your settings from utorrent application data folder and i'll try a torrent with them
Read the trace from the first post again. The packets left my PC fine, nothing to do with uTorrent at all some network issue between my network card and the CF server that caused a request to be badly delayed and others to drop.
Thanks for the offer of assistance.
Andrewcrawford23
12-09-2008, 16:15
Read the trace from the first post again. The packets left my PC fine, nothing to do with uTorrent at all some network issue between my network card and the CF server that caused a request to be badly delayed and others to drop.
Thanks for the offer of assistance.
Well i decided to look at your traces and it appears to be dropping just leaving the ubr, i say appears i cant be sure as the trace isnt one i am 100% familier with
Ignitionnet
12-09-2008, 16:20
Well i decided to look at your traces and it appears to be dropping just leaving the ubr, i say appears i cant be sure as the trace isnt one i am 100% familier with
It's the summary from Wireshark / Ethereal and is the same format as a TCPdump.
You can't see at what point it's dropping from the trace as I've no visibility of anything past my network card. I can prove that my router had a NAT session set up, I can prove that there was no TCPIP.sys half open connections limit but I can't say for sure anything beyond that.
Jonathan90
12-09-2008, 16:27
honestly you gotta get it in your head? if utorrent is on it goes slow
if not it doesn't so its obviously utorrent causing the problem wrong settings,network card can't handle the connections i don't know but isn't it obvious it utorrent or whatever client your using? try using less global connection put a lower number its not virginmedia for once imo some things wrong your end. or maybe as someone said above maybe your in a trial area i give up lol try a different client try halite (binarynotions.com)
good luck :)
Ignitionnet
12-09-2008, 16:32
If you can't read the trace I've provided there's not much more I can say. The issue is proven off my PC, network card and router by the network trace extract. It shows the TCP session setup run properly (proving out router) followed by the request leaving network card then a response eventually coming back. None of my kit can cause this, it can only cause connections to be dropped, not delayed.
Andrewcrawford23
12-09-2008, 16:40
It's the summary from Wireshark / Ethereal and is the same format as a TCPdump.
You can't see at what point it's dropping from the trace as I've no visibility of anything past my network card. I can prove that my router had a NAT session set up, I can prove that there was no TCPIP.sys half open connections limit but I can't say for sure anything beyond that.
As i said appears, as i am not familier witht eh trace type
Impz2002
12-09-2008, 16:41
no offence but amybe your ain't got it configured right or something mines fine when configured correctly oh and another thing huge swamped torrents can cause crap browsing try the openoffice torrent
Im not being funny mate but im not your average user. I am well aware of the nature of torrents and am well versed in the workings of TCP/IP stacks in windows and this isnt your average client setup issue. Something very strange is going on and as you can see from the posts on this thread there are a fair few technical bods looking into it without a confirmed idea of what it could be.
Thanks for the offer though its very community spirited of you :)
And just to allay your notion of the cause being Utorrent. I have used other clients and have the same issue. this issue also affects all 4 computers in my house some running XP pro and some running Vista home premium so it cannot be accounted to a particular system. Also my router is not the cause because as shown in the initial post in this thread the HTTP Requests are leaving the router and are getting lost somewhere after the UBR.
Impz
Andrewcrawford23
12-09-2008, 17:14
It's the summary from Wireshark / Ethereal and is the same format as a TCPdump.
You can't see at what point it's dropping from the trace as I've no visibility of anything past my network card. I can prove that my router had a NAT session set up, I can prove that there was no TCPIP.sys half open connections limit but I can't say for sure anything beyond that.
Do you happen to have anotehr computer that you can run a torrent from as seeder? i am jsut curious if it goes slow on the local network, if it doesnt it defentialy rules your comptuer out and it has to be from some point after it leave the mdoem.
Am i right in assuming the packet do come back? but jsut with very high dekay on them?
Im not being funny mate but im not your average user. I am well aware of the nature of torrents and am well versed in the workings of TCP/IP stacks in windows and this isnt your average client setup issue. Something very strange is going on and as you can see from the posts on this thread there are a fair few technical bods looking into it without a confirmed idea of what it could be.
Nothing strange going on, just ALLOT at work ;)
Ignitionnet
12-09-2008, 17:21
Do you happen to have anotehr computer that you can run a torrent from as seeder? i am jsut curious if it goes slow on the local network, if it doesnt it defentialy rules your comptuer out and it has to be from some point after it leave the mdoem.
Yes but it's not the torrent that's the issue, its' the HTTP stream I highlighted.
Am i right in assuming the packet do come back? but jsut with very high dekay on them?
Not quite, took 3 requests to get a single response and that response was late, the HTTP flow was broken.
---------- Post added at 17:21 ---------- Previous post was at 17:21 ----------
Nothing strange going on, just ALLOT at work ;)
Not easy to prove, but hey I'm bored. :angel:
Andrewcrawford23
12-09-2008, 17:33
Yes but it's not the torrent that's the issue, its' the HTTP stream I highlighted.
Not quite, took 3 requests to get a single response and that response was late, the HTTP flow was broken.
---------- Post added at 17:21 ---------- Previous post was at 17:21 ----------
Not easy to prove, but hey I'm bored. :angel:
The http stream is broken when torrent is on? but not when it is off? if so i agree this having nothing to do with yoru machine. but i am really confussed as to what would break a stream will need to check that to be sure. will need to speak witha few network people i know
---------- Post added at 17:33 ---------- Previous post was at 17:32 ----------
Nothing strange going on, just ALLOT at work ;)
Very hard to prove unfortnally until virgin deny it then one day after launch admit it ;)
Ignitionnet
12-09-2008, 17:36
Lots of things can cause it but I'm interested in what.
Andrewcrawford23
12-09-2008, 17:58
Lots of things can cause it but I'm interested in what.
Not something i hav heard off but i am certainly interested so i am going to do some asking :) then i might be able to find out where it is breaking
honestly you gotta get it in your head?
if utorrent is on it goes slow if not it doesn't so its obviously utorrent causing the problem wrong settings,network card can't handle the connections i don't know but isn't it obvious it utorrent or whatever client your using? try using less global connection put a lower number its not virginmedia for once imo some things wrong your end. or maybe as someone said above maybe your in a trial area i give up lol try a different client try halite (binarynotions.com)
good luck :)
NO YOU have to get it though/in YOUR head , on first reading it, and not taking into consideration anything thats been posted since, some people MIGHT assume its an Obvious thing.
however, even with the very limited and small Wireshark: http://www.wireshark.org/ trace the OP supplyed, it makes it clear theres something very odd going on.
then you have my post that states i personally tryed several torrent clients last night when i noticed the CF was acting up , there has been no posts regarding any CF problems that iv seen and so theres yet another fact to consider.
is it your contention that all the torrent clients az,utorrent, vuse(yes its az updated but on another LAN machine),and transmission as supplyed on the latest freeNAS liveCDs thats freeBSD based in case your interested BTW).
the only one i didnt get around to testing that i have right now was mldonkey (http://www.mldonkey.org)a multi-protocol P2P daemon, apparently you can manage it (including torrent-upload) using the multi-platform client Sancho (http://sancho-gui.sf.net).
were all configured wrong (and no i wasnt running them all at the same time :rolleyes: )and so slowing down and dropping the http connections.
---------- Post added at 18:10 ---------- Previous post was at 18:02 ----------
Nothing strange going on, just ALLOT at work ;)
ohh the ALLOT of work thing ,time to make and keep these full wireshark dumps then for later use perhaps :D
Andrewcrawford23
12-09-2008, 18:29
Well the little research i have done suggest interceptions as one cause, unreachable host as another, and server not wanting to accept the packets very strange.... im getting more itnerested by the minute deep network stuff :D
im currently running from a baguley/NW connected UBR BTW.
coincidence perhaps but you got to wonder ;)
did anyone else see a large speed update in the webpage getting in the last 10 minutes?.
its been running like a slug on all page refreshes all day (not just here) and night since i ran those torrent tests, and the minute capturing raw wireshark logs and ALLOT comes up in the thread it suddenly vastly inproves, (its not STM and its not increased just before the hour as STM does here), you might think someone was reading the thread and just send the shutdown/reset commands to any test kit they might have in put place in some area's ;)
cook1984
12-09-2008, 18:44
I too have noticed similar issues with VM, and although I don't know why it happens (cheap crappy equipment most likely, it seemed to start when they brought in the STM retarding so maybe it's to do with that equipment) but I do have a solution.
I use a pfSense based router with correctly configured traffic shaping. With it off I get the problems, with it on they go away. My theory is that pfSense evening out the transmission rate helps, where as an unshaped connection just dumps packets as fast as possible and causes VM's equipment to just randomly drop packets).
If you go this route remember to call retentions and get them to deduct a few quid a month to cover the running costs of your pfSense router, since they can't fix it for you.
andrew you might be interested in this page
http://wiki.wireshark.org/FileFormatReference
it covers all the file formats you must be used to , i cant find anything missing there that wireshark cant take as its input.
"...
Capture File Format Reference
Wireshark supports a variety of capture file formats.
Some of these formats are well-documented and therefore well-known, like the libpcap (http://wiki.wireshark.org/libpcap) / WinPcap (http://wiki.wireshark.org/WinPcap) format Wireshark uses natively.
Other formats are added to Wireshark by reverse engineering, so the support of these formats is done through "sophisticated guesswork". This is the reason why support of these file types might be incomplete and inaccurate at some parts.
/libpcap (http://wiki.wireshark.org/FileFormatReference/libpcap) captures (TcpDump (http://wiki.wireshark.org/TcpDump), Wireshark native and various other tools that use LibPcap (http://wiki.wireshark.org/LibPcap))
snoop (http://tools.ietf.org/rfcmarkup?rfc=1761) and atmsnoop captures
Shomiti/Finisar Surveyor captures
Novell LANalyzer captures
Microsoft Network Monitor captures
AIX's iptrace captures
Cinco Networks NetXRay captures
Network Associates Windows-based Sniffer captures
Network General/Network Associates DOS-based Sniffer (compressed or uncompressed) captures
AG Group/ WildPackets EtherPeek/TokenPeek/AiroPeek/EtherHelp/PacketGrabber captures
RADCOM's WAN/LAN analyzer captures
Network Instruments Observer version 9 captures
Lucent/Ascend router debug output
RedBack (http://wiki.wireshark.org/RedBack) SE400/800 tcpdump pcap format
HP-UX's nettl captures (http://docs.hp.com/en/B2355-60105/nettl.1M.html)
Toshiba's ISDN routers dump output
the output from i4btrace from the ISDN4BSD project
traces from the EyeSDN USB S0.
the output in IPLog format from the Cisco Secure Intrusion Detection System
pppd logs (pppdump format)
the output from VMS's TCPIPtrace/TCPtrace/UCX$TRACE utilities
the text output from the DBS Etherwatch VMS utility
Visual Networks' Visual UpTime traffic capture
the output from CoSine L2 debug
the output from Accellent's 5Views LAN agents
Endace Measurement Systems' ERF format captures
Linux Bluez Bluetooth stack hcidump -w traces
Tektronix K12 (http://wiki.wireshark.org/K12)/K15 captures
ASCII trace output from the IBM iSeries (AS/400) Ethernet Communications Trace
DCT2000 (http://wiki.wireshark.org/DCT2000) .out files
The output from the Juniper NetScreen (http://wiki.wireshark.org/NetScreen) snoop command
TamoSoft's CommView files
If you can't find the required file format on the list above, you may try ProConvert (http://www.wildpackets.com/products/free_utilities/proconvert/overview) (closed source freeware, registration required, Win32 only), a tool to convert capture files between different formats. Their list of supported file formats (http://www.wildpackets.com/products/free_utilities/proconvert/file_types) differs from the Wireshark list above, so you might be able to convert your file to a format that Wireshark can read (e.g. libpcap).
..."
http://wiki.wireshark.org/BitTorrent?action=show&redirect=Protocols%2Fbittorrent
http://wiki.wireshark.org/HTTP_Preferences
http://www.wireshark.org/
Ignitionnet
12-09-2008, 19:33
however, even with the very limited and small Wireshark: http://www.wireshark.org/ trace the OP supplyed, it makes it clear theres something very odd going on.
That was the entire flow popper, note the flags, it runs right from SYN to FIN,ACK as my web browser decided it couldn't be bothered to wait. :(
ohh the ALLOT of work thing ,time to make and keep these full wireshark dumps then for later use perhaps :D
We'll see what we can see.
Andrewcrawford23
12-09-2008, 19:35
andrew you might be interested in this page
http://wiki.wireshark.org/FileFormatReference
it covers all the file formats you must be used to , i cant find anything missing there that wireshark cant take as its input.
"...
Capture File Format Reference
Wireshark supports a variety of capture file formats.
Some of these formats are well-documented and therefore well-known, like the libpcap (http://wiki.wireshark.org/libpcap) / WinPcap (http://wiki.wireshark.org/WinPcap) format Wireshark uses natively.
Other formats are added to Wireshark by reverse engineering, so the support of these formats is done through "sophisticated guesswork". This is the reason why support of these file types might be incomplete and inaccurate at some parts.
/libpcap (http://wiki.wireshark.org/FileFormatReference/libpcap) captures (TcpDump (http://wiki.wireshark.org/TcpDump), Wireshark native and various other tools that use LibPcap (http://wiki.wireshark.org/LibPcap))
snoop (http://tools.ietf.org/rfcmarkup?rfc=1761) and atmsnoop captures
Shomiti/Finisar Surveyor captures
Novell LANalyzer captures
Microsoft Network Monitor captures
AIX's iptrace captures
Cinco Networks NetXRay captures
Network Associates Windows-based Sniffer captures
Network General/Network Associates DOS-based Sniffer (compressed or uncompressed) captures
AG Group/ WildPackets EtherPeek/TokenPeek/AiroPeek/EtherHelp/PacketGrabber captures
RADCOM's WAN/LAN analyzer captures
Network Instruments Observer version 9 captures
Lucent/Ascend router debug output
RedBack (http://wiki.wireshark.org/RedBack) SE400/800 tcpdump pcap format
HP-UX's nettl captures (http://docs.hp.com/en/B2355-60105/nettl.1M.html)
Toshiba's ISDN routers dump output
the output from i4btrace from the ISDN4BSD project
traces from the EyeSDN USB S0.
the output in IPLog format from the Cisco Secure Intrusion Detection System
pppd logs (pppdump format)
the output from VMS's TCPIPtrace/TCPtrace/UCX$TRACE utilities
the text output from the DBS Etherwatch VMS utility
Visual Networks' Visual UpTime traffic capture
the output from CoSine L2 debug
the output from Accellent's 5Views LAN agents
Endace Measurement Systems' ERF format captures
Linux Bluez Bluetooth stack hcidump -w traces
Tektronix K12 (http://wiki.wireshark.org/K12)/K15 captures
ASCII trace output from the IBM iSeries (AS/400) Ethernet Communications Trace
DCT2000 (http://wiki.wireshark.org/DCT2000) .out files
The output from the Juniper NetScreen (http://wiki.wireshark.org/NetScreen) snoop command
TamoSoft's CommView files
If you can't find the required file format on the list above, you may try ProConvert (http://www.wildpackets.com/products/free_utilities/proconvert/overview) (closed source freeware, registration required, Win32 only), a tool to convert capture files between different formats. Their list of supported file formats (http://www.wildpackets.com/products/free_utilities/proconvert/file_types) differs from the Wireshark list above, so you might be able to convert your file to a format that Wireshark can read (e.g. libpcap).
..."
http://wiki.wireshark.org/BitTorrent?action=show&redirect=Protocols%2Fbittorrent
http://wiki.wireshark.org/HTTP_Preferences
http://www.wireshark.org/
i was about to ask if this wireshark was packet sniffer seems it is
Oh i forgot thanks for that i will be havinga good read of it its something that itnerests me, i normally use another sniffer
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