View Full Version : [Merged] STM with yet more restrictions starts
xspeedyx
29-05-2008, 11:21
as the title says?
its introducted today..afaik.
moaningmags
29-05-2008, 11:44
The traffic management page has already been updated but surprise surprise it's got some wrong info on it
http://www.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management.php
Quote from Alex Brown
This applies to cable customers only, and we will commence the rollout
when all the customer communications are finished. I'll drop by to
update people at this stage.
Looks like full rollout once they've sent the letters out to the people using their service.
xspeedyx
29-05-2008, 11:47
wow I can use my connection overnight and a few hrs of the morning thats CRAP
wow I can use my connection overnight and a few hrs of the morning thats CRAP
Yeh think of all the things you can download between 3 and 4pm :rolleyes:
xspeedyx
29-05-2008, 11:49
I know and with a oversubscripted area I might be able to do window updates
Does anyone know if it is possible to drop just broadband if you are in a 12 month contract? Cause, I have 3 for 30 with XL upgrade but i would be looking at dropping to 2 for 20 phone and tv and then getting broadband from O2 and would just use the BT line for the BB cause there is already one in the dining room where the main computer is
moaningmags
29-05-2008, 11:52
I can honestly say that so far I've only been hit by STM once and that was hubbys fault.
He started 2 downloads of the same thing from two diff places to see which one he'd get faster.
You should have seen his face when I told him he'd got us restricted to 500 instead of over 2000. A gamer he may be, a maths geek he isn't.
xspeedyx
29-05-2008, 12:14
Does anyone know if it is possible to drop just broadband if you are in a 12 month contract? Cause, I have 3 for 30 with XL upgrade but i would be looking at dropping to 2 for 20 phone and tv and then getting broadband from O2 and would just use the BT line for the BB cause there is already one in the dining room where the main computer is
You could only lower the broadband to M you cant have 2for£20 as you already have a bundle
its introducted today..afaik.
Not here; downloaded just over 3GB on my 4MB connection and still going strong at 480KB/s.
GraphiX2004
29-05-2008, 14:55
Virgin Media will double the number of hours it throttles the bandwidth of customers who hammer its network day and night, changes to its traffic management policy have revealed.
The tightened regime means that between 10am and 3pm subscribers to its "M", "L" and "XL" packages will have their connection throttled for five hours if they download more than their full speed ration.
The decision follows recent regional testing of extended restrictions in London and the North West. Previously the brakes were only slammed on for five hours if limits were exceeded at any point between 4pm and 9pm.
Now, "M" customers who bust 900MB during the day will have their theoretical maximum download halved from 2Mbit/s to 1Mbit/s. "L" and "XL" users' usual headline speeds of 10MBit/s and 20MBit/s will be slowed by three quarters if they break daytime download limits of 2400MB and 6000MB respectively.
The download thresholds for the daytime throttling period are double those of the evening period, which also restricts uploads. We've reproduced Virgin Media's explanatory table below:
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2008/05/12.jpg
Virgin Media says that at current levels of demand, one per cent of its 3.8 million customers will be affected by the new daytime restrictions. In the evening, when ISP networks are under most strain, traffic limits are aimed at the top five per cent heaviest users. Virgin Media does not currently target particular types of traffic such as peer-to-peer, preferring to throttle bandwidth across all protocols.
A spokesman said the new rules are necessary to ensure quality of service for the majority. The move will nevertheless anger some who have been tricked into believing that "unlimited" broadband actually exists by years of crummy marketing by the ISP industry.
The cable monopoly, created by the merger of NTL and Telewest in 2006, is currently working to boost its top speed to 50MBit/s as part of its strategy to put broadband at the centre of its quadruple-play offering. recent trials to ramp Virgin Media's 10Gbit/s backhaul to 40GBit/s in support of the upgrade were successful. ®
---
so now i get to pay 37 quid to use my Internet at the full speed i bought it at for 3 hours a day?
i must say we all thought virgin was committing corporate suicide with the 4pm - 9pm now we have 10am - 3pm lol
go nuts guys 1 hour downloading basically a day... good luck handing over 37 pounds a month for something
your only getting to use 3 hours a working day.
I get 20mb for £25 a month do peolpe realy pay £37 a month
TraxData
29-05-2008, 15:13
wow I can use my connection overnight and a few hrs of the morning thats CRAP
You can scrap that overnight downloading soon as well.
Daytime STM is introduced because evening stm made everyone download during the day (rather than the night)...
Now this is making everyone download full whack soon as 9pm hits...and its already being noted how much its starting to cripple things in some areas.
Overnight STM is on the tables now!
PeteTheMusicGuy
29-05-2008, 15:18
You can scrap that overnight downloading soon as well.
Daytime STM is introduced because evening stm made everyone download during the day (rather than the night)...
Now this is making everyone download full whack soon as 9pm hits...and its already being noted how much its starting to cripple things in some areas.
Overnight STM is on the tables now!
Well if they do that I hope everyone drops them. Then they will have plenty of bandwith ;)
TraxData
29-05-2008, 15:18
Well if they do that I hope everyone drops them. Then they will have plenty of bandwith ;)
Most people wont...as you know how VM like to hide the STM pages ;)
VM had plenty of bandwith...they are just oversubcribing all the time...and refuse to do any upgrades...
GraphiX2004
29-05-2008, 15:23
how can you get the same thing or 25 pounds?
and regardless of the cost how will people put up with this i mean look at the
trouble it caused over the 4pm - 9pm time frame now they've done it even worse.
no-one see's to see the whole problem look at it this way
you hit your 6GB limit say within the 10AM time frame thats 5 hrs throttled.
which then takes you to 3pm, then your un-throttled back to full speed upto 4pm
from 4pm - 9pm if you hit your 3gb limit within the 4PM mark that takes you to 9pm,
now don't forget you can trigger the STM within 1 min within 10am - 3pm /4pm - 9pm
so say you hit your trigger at 2:59pm, thats 8pm the first throttle will come off.
but you've already passed over into the 4pm -9pm throttle so that 8pm it removes.
who's saying its not going to get mixed with the later STM so add 5 hours onto
9pm 1am - 10am your basically ever going to get 20mb.
probably got my maths all screwed up but you get the idea
what I'm trying to get at is, your allocated 3gb in peak time of full speed no STM right.
if you hit the STM at 2:59PM thats 5 hours STM'd right there basically NULLING out the
legitimate time you supposed to get 3GB allowance and no STM so you've basically got STM'd
all the way from Morning, Though till Noon, then Automatically hit Evening STM'
You can only use the connection un-throttled from 1am - 10am for now.
Pretty sneaky way of making sure within the 4pm - 9pm your STM'd regardless of even touching the 3GB threshold
Can Virgin's Broadband service get any worse. How can they call it their "Hero" product all they have done it made it worse since then. 1GB is hardly anything during the daytime on 2Mb and its a waste of money upgrading considering I could get around 4.5Mb for £7.50 (A lot less than the £18 I pay for 2Mb) with O2 and it would let me download a lot more.
TraxData
29-05-2008, 15:31
as the title says?
In a few areas it started today.
Others its going to be rolled out area by area over the next month.
Edit : if the code goes to plan, that is.
kryogenik
29-05-2008, 15:41
Anyone have a floating clue how people still waiting for the 4 - 10mb upgrade are managed? I mean, are we medium or large? Are we still being STM'd the same way we were or this new way??
That daytime management sucks BIG time.
:mad:
And if Trax is right, night time coming soon too..
Awful.
I can't believe I've hindered someone so much by recommending them to Virgin (for the £50 credit we were both supposed to get.. Apparently this is only applicable if there's an X in the month or some other equally stupid reason..) D'oh!
MovedGoalPosts
29-05-2008, 15:51
We are getting a number of threads on the same issue. I'm merging these to avoid cross posting and duplication.
GraphiX2004
29-05-2008, 15:55
Rob please change the Title to something a bit more eye catching then.
Something like the one i posted, people are missing this and it should not be missed!
STM with yet more restrictions is the wrong heading for this please do something
like Virgin now manages STM from 10am - 3pm! something to get people to read it.
I'd go for this title.
STM is turned off when everyone's asleep.
Incidently it's 10am to 9pm. they just took an hour out so it sounds better.
I'd go for this title.
STM is turned off when everyone's asleep.
Incidently it's 10am to 9pm. they just took an hour out so it sounds better.
hahahahaha.
GraphiX2004
29-05-2008, 17:00
I'm sorry but the title of this needs to be changed it just doesn't do it justice.
not to show any disrespect to the original poster who made it but we need
to have a topic or subject that actually hits the new STM rules.
please consider changing it either the Original Poster or a Staff member.
I'm sorry but the title of this needs to be changed it just doesn't do it justice.
not to show any disrespect to the original poster who made it but we need
to have a topic or subject that actually hits the new STM rules.
please consider changing it either the Original Poster or a Staff member.
how about "virgin stop bandits raping the system" catchy eh?
GraphiX2004
29-05-2008, 18:22
were paying to do just that it's not a free service lol we are actually "Paying" them you make it sound like we should be happy about it piggy,
on earth we pay for it with our money and i dont know about you but i'm sure you wouldn't like to give 37 pounds to me or anyone else here
for nothing would you? if you would i'll send my paypal to you. but i somehow feel you wont want to give us all money for nothing.
well were paying all this money to use the service from 1am -10am ? 37 pounds?
How about "Customers throttle their payments back 75%"
were paying to do just that it's not a free service lol we are actually "Paying" them you make it sound like we should be happy about it piggy,
on earth we pay for it with our money and i dont know about you but i'm sure you wouldn't like to give 37 pounds to me or anyone else here
for nothing would you? if you would i'll send my paypal to you. but i somehow feel you wont want to give us all money for nothing.
well were paying all this money to use the service from 1am -10am ? 37 pounds?
How about "Customers throttle their payments back 75%"
my argument all along has been people should pay for the quantity they download not the speed, the advertising is all wrong and all isps give the impression of "unlimited downloads" there is no such thing. imo 9gb for daily usage is fine all other downloads can be done at night, if people dont like it shop around its a free market.
homealone
29-05-2008, 18:44
were paying to do just that it's not a free service lol we are actually "Paying" them you make it sound like we should be happy about it piggy,
on earth we pay for it with our money and i dont know about you but i'm sure you wouldn't like to give 37 pounds to me or anyone else here
for nothing would you? if you would i'll send my paypal to you. but i somehow feel you wont want to give us all money for nothing.
well were paying all this money to use the service from 1am -10am ? 37 pounds?
How about "Customers throttle their payments back 75%"
We are paying £37 to share a connection, people have apparently been taking more than a 'fair' share & VM have introduced measures to try & make the available bandwidth more evenly distributed.
The arguments for & against this principle have been argued in several threads before this, right from the introduction of the STM procedure - all that has changed is the details.
You can 'throttle your payment' - go onto the lowest tier & pay £18, if everyone with a beef about STM did this then VM might take more notice....
The one thing I do agree with is that they should drop the 'unlimited' description from their advertising, but otherwise I see this along the lines of 'if you can't share nicely by yourselves, then I'm going to do it for you'.
Some people seem to have the attitude that they are paying for a service that allows all subscribers to simultaneously download at full whack, 24/7 - that is not now, nor has ever been, the case.
I've said before that just because you pay water rates does not mean you are therefore entitled to run your taps all day & all night, because that is 'what you pay for' ??
TraxData
29-05-2008, 18:47
We are paying £37 to share a connection, people have apparently been taking more than a 'fair' share & VM have introduced measures to try & make the available bandwidth more evenly distributed.
The arguments for & against this principle have been argued in several threads before this, right from the introduction of the STM procedure - all that has changed is the details.
You can 'throttle your payment' - go onto the lowest tier & pay £18, if everyone with a beef about STM did this then VM might take more notice....
The one thing I do agree with is that they should drop the 'unlimited' description from their advertising, but otherwise I see this along the lines of 'if you can't share nicely by yourselves, then I'm going to do it for you'.
Some people seem to have the attitude that they are paying for a service that allows all subscribers to simultaneously download at full whack, 24/7 - that is not now, nor has ever been, the case.
I've said before that just because you pay water rates does not mean you are therefore entitled to run your taps all day & all night, because that is 'what you pay for' ??
That isnt the problem for the most people, it's the simple fact that they are being classed as abusers to the system for wanting to start the odd download every now and again, a limit which you can hit in less than an hour in the daytime...(and 6gb really isnt much if your doing updates + a few demos etc every so often) so in effect they are payin top whack and only getting 5mbit when they want to use it, your find that fair?
Heavy downloaders just move to overnight downloading...again...which will bring in another stm...
I've said before that just because you pay water rates does not mean you are therefore entitled to run your taps all day & all night, because that is 'what you pay for' ??
Really??
If you're unmetered and there's no hosepipe ban in force then yes you can use as much as you like.
If you're metered you can still use as much as you like because the customer knows they are paying for it.
back to the good old days of dialup and leaving your pc on 24/7 to be able to actually download anything. Broadband Britain what a joke, lol
homealone
29-05-2008, 18:59
Really??
If you're unmetered and there's no hosepipe ban in force then yes you can use as much as you like.
If you're metered you can still use as much as you like because the customer knows they are paying for it.
Which is why I think it is a good analogy -you can 'theoretically' use as much as you like, but if everyone did so do you think the water company would just ignore it - I reckon they would reduce the pressure at peak times :)
- now metered is a different scenario - do we really want that for internet connections??
Which is why I think it is a good analogy -you can 'theoretically' use as much as you like, but if everyone did so do you think the water company would just ignore it - I reckon they would reduce the pressure at peak times :)
- now metered is a different scenario - do we really want that for internet connections??
They prefer you to be umetered as it's more expensive, there's only always a limit to what you can use anyway but it is your choice, either pay more to have what you like when you like or pay less to only what you use, that makes perfect sense.
A metered broadband, well it is effectively that already now isn't it.
But broadband is classed totally different, people pay £37 a month to be able to download what they like, do they really care about Joe Bloggs down the street, is it their fault the system can't cope because VM over subscibes without upgrading their systems?
Web-Junkie
29-05-2008, 19:10
Why don't VM advertise what their STM restrictions are on the TV when they harp on about their broadband?
I guess no F***** would sign up if they did!
Why don't VM advertise what their STM restrictions are on the TV when they harp on about their broadband?
I guess no F***** would sign up if they did!
No, but they subliminially advertise that there is NO stm is place and that you should sign up now to their under subscribed, unlimited, cheap, supersonic etc broadband. ;)
lol, not downloaded anything today , just fired up my newsgroup for something and straight away on 5meg STM, so much for your usage allowance, bollox to it, PC just stays on now all the time, cannot be bothered about ajusting my download habits seeing there is no window to move it
homealone
29-05-2008, 19:31
They prefer you to be umetered as it's more expensive, there's only always a limit to what you can use anyway but it is your choice, either pay more to have what you like when you like or pay less to only what you use, that makes perfect sense.
A metered broadband, well it is effectively that already now isn't it.
But broadband is classed totally different, people pay £37 a month to be able to download what they like, do they really care about Joe Bloggs down the street, is it their fault the system can't cope because VM over subscibes without upgrading their systems?
Isn't that the whole point, though, the system was never ever designed to cope with simultaneous full speed downloads (and more especially uploads) - I agree VM have made a rod for their own back by using the 'unlimited' term, but it was designed as a contended system, and that is what it remains.
- I take the point about over-subscription, but it isn't only people in oversubscribed areas who get STM applied - if anything they are lucky to hit the limits ;) The fundamental seems to be the idea put in subscribers heads that they can download (and upload) 24/7. While I agree that is due to poor marketing, it doesn't change the situation wrt the capacity of the system. Upgrades have been done - but not to the extent it would allow that scenario to be possible, and while the money they owe remains so high, seems unlikely ever to happen???
You could only lower the broadband to M you cant have 2for£20 as you already have a bundle
I already am on Broadband M
Isn't that the whole point, though, the system was never ever designed to cope with simultaneous full speed downloads (and more especially uploads) - I agree VM have made a rod for their own back by using the 'unlimited' term, but it was designed as a contended system, and that is what it remains.
- I take the point about over-subscription, but it isn't only people in oversubscribed areas who get STM applied - if anything they are lucky to hit the limits ;) The fundamental seems to be the idea put in subscribers heads that they can download (and upload) 24/7. While I agree that is due to poor marketing, it doesn't change the situation wrt the capacity of the system. Upgrades have been done - but not to the extent it would allow that scenario to be possible, and while the money they owe remains so high, seems unlikely ever to happen???
If I wasn't going to go over the limits that they suggest (which is a puny amount), then I'd pay for the small package and pay next to nothing for it. Then I'll browse and email and use the net, oh sorry you can't use the net for as it's intended on the lower tier.
But I chose to pay top whack, it was my perogative to do so, to allow me to do what they advertised, download what I like when I like. Not everyone on the 20mb downloads 24/7, mainly because the speed we signed up for gave us that option not to have to.
Sorry but you ain't going to convince me that it's the public's fault for all of this. This is all down to VM and the way they like to screw people over to cut as many costs as possible without informing their customers.
I do between 2 and 10GB per month total traffic on a 2Mb line
In no way am I a heavy user, and yet I still get penalised for using the connection I pay for at times that are inconvenient for VM.
Makes me sick.
The only good thing I can see about the policy change is that the limits on the evening cap have been increased to 512MB from 350MB. Also, it's probably unlikely I'll bust the daytime cap.
However, for those on the higher speeds, it really must stick in your throat when asked to swallow this garbage.
xspeedyx
29-05-2008, 19:39
Can VM limit the whole day and still call it unlimited that surely is not allowed
Can VM limit the whole day and still call it unlimited that surely is not allowed
If they say up to 20mb but limit you to only 56k for 24 hours, then effectively they could still say it's unlimited, it'll take a giant hairy beanbag to say its still unlimited but I still think they'll get away with it.
Really??
If you're unmetered and there's no hosepipe ban in force then yes you can use as much as you like.
If you're metered you can still use as much as you like because the customer knows they are paying for it.
use as much as you like.........not what you need that is exactly why people should pay for quantity of a finite resourse, otherwise people abuse the system because they can. pigs feeding at a trough springs to mind.
xspeedyx
29-05-2008, 19:49
I was ok with the evening STM but for ****sake this is great stupid and I cant leave
use as much as you like.........not what you need that is exactly why people should pay for quantity of a finite resourse, otherwise people abuse the system because they can. pigs feeding at a trough springs to mind.
If you read up I said not all people download 24/7, people pay the top whack so they don't have to. The choice is no longer there now even though they are still paying the high amount. After all, these people who do download loads will just download more than ever to make it up.
The principle of the matter is now people are paying £37 for a 5mb connection with 20min bursts of higher speed. Now is that fair?
In order to prevent multiple places of the same topic - This one is closing and the discussion can continue in the following thread linked below:-
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12/33631859-new-stm-virgin-traffic-managent-confirmed.html
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