Does anyone record their calls to VM?

[lucevans]

I'm just wondering...

In this age where most companies prefix any telephone call you make to them with a recorded statement to the effect of "your call may be recorded for training and/or quality assurance purposes" why don't we customers do the same?

Every time we call VM (be it CS, TS or Retentions) record the call (either on your mobile - mine can do it at the press of a button) or using a simple telephone recorder on PC, and start your conversation with "My name is xxxxxxx, account number xxxxxxxxx and you should know that I am recording this conversation for my records" Then ask the employee at the other end of the line to identify themselves before launching into whatever you've called them about.

They shouldn't have a problem with it - after all, they expect you to agree to them recording the conversation, don't they?

Such a recording, while not legally admissible as evidence, would be a useful record of exactly what was said by whom, and can't be disputed by the company at a later date - as you can play them the tape!

[Angry@VMedia]

I'm just wondering...

In this age where most companies prefix any telephone call you make to them with a recorded statement to the effect of "your call may be recorded for training and/or quality assurance purposes" why don't we customers do the same?

Every time we call VM (be it CS, TS or Retentions) record the call (either on your mobile - mine can do it at the press of a button) or using a simple telephone recorder on PC, and start your conversation with "My name is xxxxxxx, account number xxxxxxxxx and you should know that I am recording this conversation for my records" Then ask the employee at the other end of the line to identify themselves before launching into whatever you've called them about.

They shouldn't have a problem with it - after all, they expect you to agree to them recording the conversation, don't they?

Such a recording, while not legally admissible as evidence, would be a useful record of exactly what was said by whom, and can't be disputed by the company at a later date - as you can play them the tape!

It is indeed a good idea, 1 that I infact do every single time as I know what lying so&so's they are!

I have an old answering machine connected to the line, which is capable of 2-way recording!
I have over 4 tapes I have recorded with virginmedia, and I have sucessfully used said recordings to proove them wrong, but they will not do anything about it as mostly the calls are from india, (or whereever they host their 'support' centres these days) and they say they cannot trace who the agent was, probably due to the fact that nobody can understand them or their names are so alike, I have even been told that it wasnt a call agent i wasspeaking to, but mearly a friend I'd got to pretend!

Well virginmedia, this works both ways too you know!

[Wicked_and_Crazy]

unless you can prove the number that was dialled then there is no point in recording the conversation

[Noggo]

You can record a telephone conversation. But as far as I'm aware you have to say that you are recording the conversation before hand, if you are going to use it later as evidence.

Which is why you get the recorded message at the start, `This telephone call may be recorded and used for training purpose..... etc'

[v0id]

You have to inform the person on the other end of the line that you're recording, and most call centres will ask you to stop or they will terminate the call

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

You could ask them to record the call and to supply you with the call id. I once had problems with TMobile and was getting nowhere with customer services. Eventually I asked for my call to be recorded, got the CS operator to give me teh call ID and used that in reference to letters.

Howeve I am not sure if they have to record the call at your request, becuase I recently asked a CS person at Orange and she said she cant do that.

[CountZer0]

What about if you start recording as Virgin answers? I.e. when their system answers your call (and before a human answers) and say "I am also recording this call for training and quality" ??

:)

[xspeedyx]

You have every right to record a call however you have to inform the op and I think they can refuse this

[Hugh]

This may clear up some misunderstandings

Ofcom (http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/consumer/advice/faqs/prvfaq3.htm)

You can only record the call if they don't object to it, or if you do not intend to disclose it to a third party.

"Can I record telephone conversations on my home phone?
Yes. The relevant law, RIPA, does not prohibit individuals from recording their own communications provided that the recording is for their own use. Recording or monitoring are only prohibited where some of the contents of the communication - which can be a phone conversation or an e-mail - are made available to a third party, ie someone who was neither the caller or sender nor the intended recipient of the original communication"

"Do I have to let people know that I intend to record their telephone conversations with me?
No, provided you are not intending to make the contents of the communication available to a third party. If you are you will need the consent of the person you are recording."

"Can a business or other organisation record or monitor my phone calls or e-mail correspondence with them?
Yes they can, but only in a limited set of circumstances relevant for that business which have been defined by the LBP Regulations. The main ones are:


to provide evidence of a business transaction
to ensure that a business complies with regulatory procedures
to see that quality standards or targets are being met in the interests of national security
to prevent or detect crime to investigate the unauthorised use of a telecom system
to secure the effective operation of the telecom system"HTH

[Magilla]

You have to inform the person on the other end of the line that you're recording, and most call centres will ask you to stop or they will terminate the call

Wouldn't that imply they had something to hide?

[haydnwalker]

Maybe it does suggest they had something to hide...maybe they just don't want their voice on tape?

[Angry@VMedia]

This may clear up some misunderstandings

Ofcom (http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/consumer/advice/faqs/prvfaq3.htm)

You can only record the call if they don't object to it, or if you do not intend to disclose it to a third party.

"Can I record telephone conversations on my home phone?
Yes. The relevant law, RIPA, does not prohibit individuals from recording their own communications provided that the recording is for their own use. Recording or monitoring are only prohibited where some of the contents of the communication - which can be a phone conversation or an e-mail - are made available to a third party, ie someone who was neither the caller or sender nor the intended recipient of the original communication"

"Do I have to let people know that I intend to record their telephone conversations with me?
No, provided you are not intending to make the contents of the communication available to a third party. If you are you will need the consent of the person you are recording."

"Can a business or other organisation record or monitor my phone calls or e-mail correspondence with them?
Yes they can, but only in a limited set of circumstances relevant for that business which have been defined by the LBP Regulations. The main ones are:


to provide evidence of a business transaction
to ensure that a business complies with regulatory procedures
to see that quality standards or targets are being met in the interests of national security
to prevent or detect crime to investigate the unauthorised use of a telecom system
to secure the effective operation of the telecom system"HTH



How convinient this would be,as if virgin goes ahead with this stuppid phorm rubbish then THEY are breaking RIPA, so they cant really use that against you!

IF during my recordings they said they would not carry on the call if it was recorded, does this somehow mean they are failing to comply, as you call them up and they have a commitment to follow through with the call until the end (even thoughsome choose to hang up on you anyway) and if they DID object, i would have to question them as to why, if it is OK for them to record customers calls, why will they not allow it the other way around!

sorry if this does not make sense, i have just woken up again and need at least 2 cups of tea to fully wake me :sleep:

[Hugh]

If you read the the link, it explains it fully.

But in summary
Businesses are allowed to tape calls for a number of reasons (stated in the link)
Private phone calls can only be taped with the permission of the person on the other end of the line (and they don't have to hang up, they just have to say no) - if you continue to tape the call, and try to use it by disclosure to a third party (anyone else), it is then against the law.

They don't have to have a reason to say no.

There is a simpler method - if I have changed/arranged anything, I ask for an email address, and then I send the details of the change/arrangement to this email address; that way there is a date/time/transaction record. I have done this twice with VM, without any problems.

[CWH]

Regarding your OWN phone, and in line with the guidance, your ARE allowed to record a call, NOR do you need to inform the other party - unless you intend to copy it to a third party.
quote:
Do I have to let people know that I intend to record their telephone conversations with me?
No, provided you are not intending to make the contents of the communication available to a third party.
unquote.

This only applies at the time you make the recording. So, if at some point later, you wish to use that information in a legal case, then the 'third party' criteria does not apply. Your own legal advice, nor the resulting court case is regarded as 'third party'.

I always record all telephone calls, as a matter of course; it also records the Caller ID, if available and I have used this in a court case against a large retailer. (which they lost).
The CD of the call was accepted as evidence by the court as they, (the court,) said they were a party to the case and not a third party.

Colin
( I have a letter on file from Oftel essentially saying the above. Their interpretation of the 'third party' was that at the time of recording, I didn't have the intention of relaying the contents to any anyone else.)

[Hugh]

CWH, just curious, why do you record the calls?

If you didn't intend disclosing the recordings to a third party (defined by Ofcom as "a third party, ie someone who was neither the caller or sender nor the intended recipient of the original communication", what did you tell the court your reason for recording them was?

[the-cable-guy]

You can record a telephone conversation. But as far as I'm aware you have to say that you are recording the conversation before hand, if you are going to use it later as evidence.

Which is why you get the recorded message at the start, `This telephone call may be recorded and used for training purpose..... etc'

yes you do otherwise its illegal.

[WHISTLED]

Do I have to let people know that I intend to record their telephone conversations with me?
No, provided you are not intending to make the contents of the communication available to a third party.unquote.

Unfortunatley its the individual agent that needs to give permission, and a '3rd party' would include other people from the same company.

More importantly, other than the odd coachig excercise VM doesnt record calls either