View Full Version : STM Statement
STM Statement:
As part of our continued efforts to improve our customer's broadband
experience we are continuing to trial measures which will more efficiently
and pro-actively manage network traffic.
As part of our continued efforts to improve our customer's broadband
experience, we are making changes to the current Traffic Management Policy
within certain trial regions.
This updated policy will be trialed within the following regions
Preston, Wigan, Blackpool, Camden, Dalston, Enfield and Haringey.
These measures are based on policies that detect traffic patterns
that are deemed potentially abnormal and apply traffic management rules to
ensure that other customers are not adversely affected by this traffic.
The trial aims to prevent or reduce the effects of a minority of
users abusing the network and preventing the majority of subscribers from
having the network performance they desire.
For the vast majority of customers, upwards of 95% of the base,
their experience will be a more consistent speed (both upload and download).
Those who have the policies applied to their connection will
experience their download / upload speed being constrained (less than 5%
affected). Breach of acceptable use policy may lead to these policies being
applied.
These optimisation policies are being trialed during the following
times where the potential for abnormal traffic has been identified as having
the greatest adverse impact on our customers' experience.
10am - 3pm Download only
4pm - 9pm Download
3pm - 8pm Upload
During these times the following thresholds will be applied for upstream and
downstream.
10am - 3pm Download
Size M: 900Mb
Size L: 2400Mb
Size XL: 6000Mb
4pm - 9pm Download
Size M: 450Mb
Size L:1200Mb
Size XL: 3000Mb
3pm - 8pm Upload
Size M: 200Mb
Size L: 700Mb
Size XL: 1400Mb
---------- Post added at 14:07 ---------- Previous post was at 14:05 ----------
So that is saying that restrictions will be in place for a continuous 11 hours.
10am to 9pm.
TraxData
14-04-2008, 14:11
Well, i did tell everyone.
A few of those times are wrong though...and that's only one set of the trials being run, unfortunetly the ones you have just posted are the ones that are confirmed for national rollout sometime over the next year.
In that case how long will it be before 9pm until 10 am becomes congested with everyone switching their usage.
24 hour STM perhaps?
TraxData
14-04-2008, 14:13
In that case how long will it be before 9pm until 10 am becomes congested with everyone switching their usage.
24 hour STM perhaps?
It's not far off that now with current trials...
VM shot themself's in the foot with STM, didnt stop heavy downloaders at all, they just shifted their downloads to overnight/all morning/all afternoon, so it's actually made things worse.
PeteTheMusicGuy
14-04-2008, 14:17
If they bring in 24 hr STM would that not be some sort of contract breach as they are then not supplying the advertised service as STM was only supposed to be used in "peak hours"
In that case how long will it be before 9pm until 10 am becomes congested with everyone switching their usage.
24 hour STM perhaps?
It will change, they are changing everything all the time. with Virgin you can't just have the connection and use it, you have to be seeing all this juggling around all the time.
They always say that it is done for the benefit of the customers and to give them an enjoyable internet experience.
They don't say that it benefits them by being able to take more customers on at the expense of the customers they have already.
They don't say that it benefits them by being able to take more customers on at the expense of the customers they have already.
Minus the ones who leave, in droves if that STM goes national. :erm:
TraxData
14-04-2008, 14:36
Minus the ones who leave, in droves if that STM goes national. :erm:
No *IF* about it, the statement has only been released because it's already confirmed to be rolled out nationally.
MovedGoalPosts
14-04-2008, 14:40
Makes you wonder when I'm supposed to use my connection. Maybe these days you need the top tier speed, not because you expect to use it but because you still want a reasonable speed once you've been shaped :(
Well for a company that is now supposed to be focusing on boradband and making it the showcase product i feel there buzy just trying to run it into the ground, stm more and more even though it was supposed to be getting less (lower peoples upload speed a bit instead of stm thats what kills cable), and then we have phorm going to be thrust upon the system i can see people leaving in droves (no joke).
When all of these factors come together to make the internet a laughing stock instead of showcase shows how out of touch most people are with net usage nowadays especially those who adhere to profit margins more than customer servie, reputation or satisfaction how long a year is after being on ex-telewest then watching how the service went down the pan since re-branding and then everything else with it :(.
No *IF* about it, the statement has only been released because it's already confirmed to be rolled out nationally.
I think they have now gone too far and has become quite clear that Virgin are selling a product that is unfit for purpose. they have even admitted themselves that their network is congested and over subscribed. they are robbing the bandwidth from customers with the aid of STM and the new app management.
Them thinking that they can do this by referring us to the term trial in the T&C's isn't going to cut it this time I don't think.
If they were not vigorously advertising for new customers and made it clear that they weren't contributing to the already congested network, then they might just get away with it, but it is there for all to see that they are selling a product that is unfit for purpose.
kryogenik
14-04-2008, 15:10
10am - 3pm Download
Size M: 900Mb
Size L: 2400Mb
Size XL: 6000Mb
4pm - 9pm Download
Size M: 450Mb
Size L:1200Mb
Size XL: 3000Mb
3pm - 8pm Upload
Size M: 200Mb
Size L: 700Mb
Size XL: 1400Mb
So (according to Trax, when this rolls out) I can now download (on L) 2.4GB from 10am to 3pm, 1.2GB after from 4PM to 9pm and unlimited from 9PM to 10am.
In that case, that's 400mb more than I can now from 4pm to 9pm.
Still gives me from 9pm to 10am (13 hours) free to download whatever any big stuff I might need.. And presumably 3pm to 4pm is fair game too, right?
As this hour is oddly left out of the equation.
I hate the restrictions - I really do. But, like a good chunk of us in Manchester, I'm suffering BADLY due to high usage on the UBR.
Maybe these restrictions will allow some of us to surf at a decent speed at last.
I'm not 'for it' by a long chalk, but it's going to happen so might as well see the benefits from it.
I just hope it does the job it's presumably being implemented for, and bearing in mind STM has been hinted at being scrapped altogether further down the line once all the networks have been upgraded, yes?
TraxData
14-04-2008, 15:12
So (according to Trax, when this rolls out) I can now download (on L) 2.4GB from 10am to 3pm, 1.2GB after from 4PM to 9pm and unlimited from 9PM to 10am.
In that case, that's 400mb more than I can now from 4pm to 9pm.
Still gives me from 9pm to 10am (13 hours) free to download whatever any big stuff I might need.. And presumably 3pm to 4pm is fair game too, right?
As this hour is oddly left out of the equation.
I hate the restrictions - I really do. But, like a good chunk of us in Manchester, I'm suffering BADLY due to high usage on the UBR.
Maybe these restrictions will allow some of us to surf at a decent speed at last.
I'm not 'for it' by a long chalk, but it's going to happen so might as well see the benefits from it.
I just hope it does the job it's presumably being implemented for, and bearing in mind STM has been hinted at being scrapped altogether further down the line once all the networks have been upgraded, yes?
I wouldnt get too attached to that 9pm-10am routine as there is other trials for downloading/uploading overnight as well, VM aint gonna get let you use the bandwith your paying for.
Manchester isnt suffering high usage as such, the problem lies with old hardware that needs upgrading, dont believe half the crap VM try to spin you.
kryogenik
14-04-2008, 15:14
Manchester isnt suffering high usage as such, the problem lies with old hardware that needs upgrading, dont believe half the crap VM try to spin you.
Yeah, and the planned work keeps being put back!
Surely though, the old hardware can't handle the usage, hence the probs?
Must be so, as it hasn't always been this terrible.
I wouldnt get too attached to that 9pm-10am routine as there is other trials for downloading/uploading overnight as well, VM aint gonna get let you use the bandwith your paying for.
Hmm. No surprise there then.
:(
PeteTheMusicGuy
14-04-2008, 15:16
Well when they bring this in they will have plenty of extra bandwith as they wont have any Broadband customers :)
Well when they bring this in they will have plenty of extra bandwith as they wont have any Broadband customers :)
That's just it they don't want customers that actually want to use the bandwidth they've paid for.
They just want the users that do nothing but browse and email and I'm sure there are millions who do just that.
dammydam
14-04-2008, 16:26
do we have a source for this ?
please ignore: found it on, virginmedia.support.broadband.cable
Well i think it is now time to move my broadband. That also means my 2 x tvdrives with all the channels. My phone line, and of course my broadband.
This new STM and Phorm are the last straw.
My new supplier will be
BT for phone.
Sky for HD tv and second sky +
Be Unlimited for my broadband.
Virgin you are now officially complete and utter crap.
Will there still be STM after the new DOCSIS 3 standards have been implemented on the network?
kryogenik
14-04-2008, 17:54
Will there still be STM after the new DOCSIS 3 standards have been implemented on the network?
A possibility I suppose.
THIS (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12/33631355-the-bloke-in-the-pub-says.html) is worth a read if you missed it.
reggplant
14-04-2008, 18:16
Oh man, after VM's CEO's remarks about net neutrality and now this... if it comes into effect in my area which has no slowdowns at any time of the day I'm outta here, Be just enabled in my exchange last month so I'll check them out.
To VM: been good so far.. don't screw it up! :|
alferret
14-04-2008, 18:58
I very seldom DL during the day and never between 4pm & 9pm because I know STM is in force. All my DL'ing is done when I'm snuggled up in bed watching the inside of my eye lids rather than when I'm at the PC.
ATM I am not concerned by this, as to wether or not in the future I am, only time will tell.
Have just finished on the Phone to VM. I have been told that should this be released in my area i can phone back for a Chat about retention ;) or i can disconnect.
So that gives me time to look at deals and ways of moving. What they could not tell me is when this will become standard. There was no indication of if it was all WHEN.
TraxData
14-04-2008, 19:13
I very seldom DL during the day and never between 4pm & 9pm because I know STM is in force. All my DL'ing is done when I'm snuggled up in bed watching the inside of my eye lids rather than when I'm at the PC.
ATM I am not concerned by this, as to wether or not in the future I am, only time will tell.
As noted, their is another seperate trial stopping anyone from downloading or uploading overnight as well.
I very seldom DL during the day and never between 4pm & 9pm because I know STM is in force. All my DL'ing is done when I'm snuggled up in bed watching the inside of my eye lids rather than when I'm at the PC.
ATM I am not concerned by this, as to wether or not in the future I am, only time will tell.
I think a lot of the people that gathered their heavy downloads and let rip at the STM exclusion time when everyone was tucked up in bed, will just now think that it's probably a pointless exercise to do so and just plough on at anytime of the day.
I think the new times and figures are intentionally confusing, and are confusing enough for anyone to just not bother planning ahead with their useage and just do it anyway.
I think a lot of the people that gathered their heavy downloads and let rip at the STM exclusion time when everyone was tucked up in bed, will just now think that it's probably a pointless exercise to do so and just plough on at anytime of the day.
I think the new times and figures are intentionally confusing, and are confusing enough for anyone to just not bother planning ahead with their useage and just do it anyway.
I will be downloading just as much and to hell with sticking to out of hours from now on. I will use the normal hours as well to make up for the slower speeds. It will mean downloading constantly from now on instead of between midnight and 8 in the morning.
Will there still be STM after the new DOCSIS 3 standards have been implemented on the network?
In my humble opinion, that is irrelevant. The fact that matters is, they ARE going against their promised/advertised policies. As I've said in this thread (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34528205-post40.html), if we ALL dont stand up and complain about this, they will continue to rip off their customers with these policies.
I've been a loyal ntl/VM customer since the early 2000. I've even renewed my contract for 12 months in January despite them having introduced their initial STM. I wont tolerate another 6 hours of STM and their anti-net neutrality stance. I would like a chance to bugger off to another ISP if I could.
Berealwith
14-04-2008, 19:46
all i can say is OMG.......i have a thread going about UBR upgrades and i am waiting the last 4 weeks for it to get its upgrade AND................"BANG" this comes up and i'm in Preston.........................................OM G.........more and more it gets worse....I will now have my Rant *&^$£$%^£*38**£^£&"")+__£("*"&"&£&&$ hell.......
4 weeks better get the cash book out and get ready for new equipment ADSL
kryogenik
14-04-2008, 19:50
I've been a loyal ntl/VM customer since the early 2000. I've even renewed my contract for 12 months in January despite them having introduced their initial STM.
Ditto. On Both counts (though was a customer earlier).
It stands for nothing mate, so you're wasting your time exclaiming it, trust me.
Guys i got to ask a question :
Do you alter your internet usage that much due to STM ?
I dont like STM, but i dont let it rule my internet usage, if i need to download something, i download it, regardless of time or size. It is very rare that i need something of size off the internet now, that i cant wait a little extra for ( should i be STM'd )...
If i want to use a torrents, i let it run, VM now manage the bandwidth usage for me, it doesnt matter if i let it run all day & night, VM are controlling the STM to ensure i dont impact others..
If i get STM'd, well i can still browse the web, play xbox live, use torrents etc so it doesnt affect my browsing habits or it doesnt affect my usage..
In a perfect world it wouldnt be there, but dont get upset over it, you've still got your connection, you can still use it, just a little patience is the key should you come under STM rules..
or i thinking bout this too simply..:dunce:
kryogenik
14-04-2008, 19:53
Guys i got to ask a question :
Do you alter your internet usage that much due to STM ?
Yes.
My (surfing) speed is bobbins anyway.
During STM, if I allow it to kick in, I might as well switch the PC off.
As I need it for work a lot of the time, I tend to make sure I'm not STM'd.
Yes.
My (surfing) speed is bobbins anyway.
During STM, if I allow it to kick in, I might as well switch the PC off.
As I need it for work a lot of the time, I tend to make sure I'm not STM'd.
Ok without wanting to start a whole different thread on work usage / residential connection / business connection etc. :angel:
Would you modify your personal usage due to STM ?
Berealwith
14-04-2008, 20:05
Yes.
My (surfing) speed is bobbins anyway.
During STM, if I allow it to kick in, I might as well switch the PC off.
As I need it for work a lot of the time, I tend to make sure I'm not STM'd.
Its not the STM i keep within this, Its so bad i cannot surf, in the way some bloke down the street can on 2mb ADSL.......really its that bad mate. I was a clan leader for 5 years and last year i had to give it up, my ping and connection was so rubbish. dont make me go there again. for 20mb was ace till this STM came in, trust me bud after hours on the phone i know.
Guys i got to ask a question :
Do you alter your internet usage that much due to STM ?
I dont like STM, but i dont let it rule my internet usage, if i need to download something, i download it, regardless of time or size. It is very rare that i need something of size off the internet now, that i cant wait a little extra for ( should i be STM'd )...
If i want to use a torrents, i let it run, VM now manage the bandwidth usage for me, it doesnt matter if i let it run all day & night, VM are controlling the STM to ensure i dont impact others..
If i get STM'd, well i can still browse the web, play xbox live, use torrents etc so it doesnt affect my browsing habits or it doesnt affect my usage..
In a perfect world it wouldnt be there, but dont get upset over it, you've still got your connection, you can still use it, just a little patience is the key should you come under STM rules..
or i thinking bout this too simply..:dunce:
I just wish they would reduce the amount i pay every time they reduce my speed ?
Robbie G
14-04-2008, 20:32
I just wish they would reduce the amount i pay every time they reduce my speed ?
Precisely!
kryogenik
14-04-2008, 20:39
Would you modify your personal usage due to STM ?
I'm sorry - how is this different from what you've already asked?
Berealwith
14-04-2008, 20:54
LOL just thinking out loud.......they have a "Daylight MOT" (as it says you can only drive in the hours of daylight) Looks like Virgin have "Unlimited Sleep Broadband". Lets hope you dont get them mixed up and sleep drive lol
I download very little overall and what I download monthly cannot possibly impinge on anyone else.It's also stuff that I've legitimately paid for or has been offered free.I do NOT use PTP at all.
I use my PC to render between 12 pm and 10 am and consequently I do not want to be downloading at that time.I'm rather resentful of being told when and how I can use my BB which I am paying for at full rate.It is NOT my fault if the system is overstretched.I've not forced VM/NTL to take on extra subscribers or to play fast and loose with funding or to waste money not upgrading the system.When I started with BB I wasn't told that I would have to be throttled,STMed and generally treated like a child..In fact I was told that BB would be faster than dial-up.
But then as I recall Cable and Wireless which predated NTL and VM promised me free 24/7 dial-up too and then reneged on that 3 months after I got it 18 months later than everyone else on C&W's books.
It seems to me that ISP's are the only group of business's that are allowed to make it up as they go along just by rewriting the T&C's as they go.
bertles86
14-04-2008, 21:28
So is the essence of this thread:
Virgin are soon enough going to roll out nationwide 24/7 STM on all broadband packages? Thats sh***e! So their unlimited connection will no longer exist?
frogstamper
14-04-2008, 21:51
In my opinion this is what this stm is all about, VM just cannot bring themselves to drop their ridiculous "unlimited" boast, obviously the network is overloaded and its having trouble coping with peoples needs, but still VM are spending a fortune on advertising taking ever more customers onto the network. As was mentioned earlier if VM were to inform us, the customer, that at a certain date in the near future when the network was upgraded that there would be no further need for stm, I think people would understand, or the majority would. But no, as usual VM are keeping us in the dark, playing their favourite card of blaming a few "greedy" people of using their connection to d/l a film or two, absolutely outrageous, these "greedy" people have paid for an "unlimited" service. Personally I'm of the opinion that I would rather pay on a basis of what I use, than forever worrying about going over my limit, if I were to pay for a 50mb service, I would expect to be able to use it without fear of being stm,d down to say what, 10mb. In finishing Id say to VM if you cant offer an "unlimited" service without so many caveats, change your pricing structure, so that people can use the speeds they pay for!!:banghead:
kryogenik
14-04-2008, 21:58
there is other trials for downloading/uploading overnight as well,
I raised this issue in vm.feedback - Alex Brown, Senior Product Manager at Virgin Media says:
Incorrect. Not discussed, let alone proposed.:confused:
TraxData
14-04-2008, 22:01
I raised this issue in vm.feedback - Alex Brown, Senior Product Manager at Virgin Media says:
:confused:
Read the newsgroup title saying STM statement and the current arguement going on there about the fact alex brown is a very well known liar, i wouldnt believe anything he comes out with, he lied about the original STM trials, he lied about them being rolled out nationally, he lied about these trials saying they didnt exist, quite simply put, he is full of brown stuff...
kryogenik
14-04-2008, 22:06
Oh.
Well, I'm not in a position to comment on that.
I was just replied to on this issue by Alex Brown and thought it worth posting.
Dunno who/what to believe these days. So many reports of this and that, it's frankly mind-boggling. Support staff ducking and weaving, people 'in the know' coming out with bad news after bad news and now someone very senior publicly stating something that's apparently lies?
I give up.
TraxData
14-04-2008, 22:12
His name has come up a few times on here i believe, he contradicts most of what he says a few weeks later, during the original trial phase of STM, he was head of the trials yet denied all existence of them, said he knew nothing of it, till i corrected him...which sparked an arguement within the groups...as other people had noticed they were being capped, not a nice guy to work with, either, if i do say so myself.
As for stating something that's lies, welcome to the world of virginmedia, now you know why alot of the top (and best imo) left VM.
kryogenik
14-04-2008, 22:13
I see. Cheers Trax.
What a mess.
:(
His name has come up a few times on here i believe, he contradicts most of what he says a few weeks later, during the original trial phase of STM, he was head of the trials yet denied all existence of them, said he knew nothing of it, till i corrected him...which sparked an arguement within the groups...as other people had noticed they were being capped, not a nice guy to work with, either, if i do say so myself.
As for stating something that's lies, welcome to the world of virginmedia, now you know why alot of the top (and best imo) left VM.
Are you Darren? :D
TraxData
14-04-2008, 22:38
Are you Darren? :D
:D
So, they doubled the amount of STM time, I guess that means I'll he halving my bill.
The Jackal
15-04-2008, 15:33
I recommend everyone in these 'trial' areas maintain a high volume of traffic which will render any statistics gathered from these amatuer capping rules/methods useless.
Even with these caps you should be able to transfer at least 60gig a day assuming you're on XL.
Web browsing will suck but that's a small price to pay.
Come on VM employ some people with skills or can actually think - I don't mind throttling at all but your strategy at the moment is completely wrong. Throttle the number of p2p connections per user and their upload speeds FTW.
If it means investing in new hardware and firing some dumb sys admins/technicians/project managers - do it.
The bottom line is they want to introduce higher speeds for everyone, but they don't want to spend any money on extra capacity to pay for it.
Probably because everyone is getting a discount. I'd go back to paying full price if there was reasonable capacity and no STM. I think instead I'm likely to just switch to Be when I move house.
kryogenik
15-04-2008, 17:38
Nah, not everyone's getting a discount. I'm not anyway (any more ;) ).
I'd bet a massive majority of VM's customers wouldn't even think of ringing for a discount or that it's even doable if you ring and suggest you're off to Sky.
JdNthLdn
15-04-2008, 17:47
Did VM tell us this by ringing anybody up nobody from Vm rang me to tell me my areas on trial. Is there any way round the system?
The Jackal
15-04-2008, 17:56
Did VM tell us this by ringing anybody up nobody from Vm rang me to tell me my areas on trial. Is there any way round the system?
LOL No way man, that would contravene Virgin Media's bad customer relations policy ;)
We all learnt about this the hard way. Interestingly enough when I rang them up a couple of days back to disconnect they didn't tell me about it then either. They just kept coaxing me into trying to keep my services with them.
Typical VM!!
I dont know why they dont go whole hog, just have 1 tariff, UPTO 20Mb, and as long as people can see AT LEAST 8Mb then they wont do nothing!
Really VM, sort yourselves out!! If it wasnt for being on the business broadband WITHOUT STM, I would have dumped you like a hot potato months ago!!
How can they claim they have "the best broadband service" which even beats BT when they CANT BE BOTHERED to upgrade, after all, what the hell are they spending all that extra money on that they are FORCING MORE & MORE PEOPLE onto a service that is DESPERATE FOR UPGRADES???
Then again, I dont know why I am surprised, this IS VirginMedia after all, and no matter how low they stoop, NOTHING would surprise me from this shambles of a "company"
When does 4mb go to 10mb? Im not paying for 20mb any longer, if they dont provide it theres no point paying for it.
I've been a loyal ntl/VM customer since the early 2000. I've even renewed my contract for 12 months in January despite them having introduced their initial STM. I wont tolerate another 6 hours of STM and their anti-net neutrality stance. I would like a chance to bugger off to another ISP if I could.
Haven't the T&C's just changed because of the support helpline costs? You could use that and get out early I suspect.
kryogenik
15-04-2008, 18:25
When does 4mb go to 10mb? Im not paying for 20mb any longer, if they dont provide it theres no point paying for it.
Check here mate: http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/existingcustomers/faster/schedule.html
Looks like this month for you, but don't read it as definite - a lot of work is being put back.
Read the newsgroup title saying STM statement and the current arguement going on there about the fact alex brown is a very well known liar.
Couldn't agree more.
I made a complaint through the Virgin Media online complaints procedure. They said that the hours for the new STM were:
10am - 3pm Download only
4pm - 9pm Download
3pm - 8pm Upload
as mentioned earlier. They said that they were in the process of updating the traffic management page on their site.
Whats the difference between Download and Download only?
kryogenik
15-04-2008, 19:08
Whats the difference between Download and Download only?
10am - 3pm Download only - just download monitored.
4pm - 9pm Download - Download monitored but incorporating 5 hours (4pm to 8pm) of below upload monitoring as well.
3pm - 8pm Upload
Does that make sense?
hokkers999
15-04-2008, 19:16
When does 4mb go to 10mb? Im not paying for 20mb any longer, if they dont provide it theres no point paying for it.
Download to 2meg, save £18 and get a nice rock solid service. I only hope they keep it during the next round of updates.
Typical VM!!
I dont know why they dont go whole hog, just have 1 tariff, UPTO 20Mb, and as long as people can see AT LEAST 8Mb then they wont do nothing!
I'd love up to 8 meg, and I'm supposed to get 20 :(
JdNthLdn
15-04-2008, 19:53
I spoke to VM broadband helpline and they said that they don't have this system in place and that there traffic mangement system is only between 6pm-9pm and said that they ain't got a 11 hour traffic mamngement system.
I'd love up to 8 meg, and I'm supposed to get 20 :(
Tell me about it! I wassooo fed up from when NTL released their 10Mb service, NEVER worked like it was supposed to,and then along came the 20Mb service, more like 200Kb in disguise,so no wander I deceided to pay out extra for NTL:Telewest 10Mb business broadband, had a tiny prob with speed at the begining, but with the help of the 6hr SLA, I got some action, and my connection is a rock solid 10Mb, with download speeds upto 1.34MegaBytes a second, and all this time, VM blamed my pc's, router, spyware AND my Internet security package, strange how all them factors were stopping me get 10/20Mb on residential, but they dont seem to affect my business package eh!
I spoke to VM broadband helpline and they said that they don't have this system in place and that there traffic mangement system is only between 6pm-9pm and said that they ain't got a 11 hour traffic mamngement system.
I would have asked the person you spoke to if he/she knew their armhole from their earhole, as I suspect MOST of the VM employees do not!
JdNthLdn
15-04-2008, 20:15
Is there away to avoid being managed?
TraxData
15-04-2008, 20:24
Is there away to avoid being managed?
Yea....dont use your connection, at all, if you do, ur an abuser.
JdNthLdn
15-04-2008, 20:29
lol
what the hell are they spending all that extra money on that they are FORCING MORE & MORE PEOPLE onto a service that is DESPERATE FOR UPGRADES???
It was a toss up between paying Samuel Jackson for the ads, or spending the money on doing their part in being able to provide the service they sell.
10am - 3pm Download only - just download monitored.
4pm - 9pm Download - Download monitored but incorporating 5 hours (4pm to 8pm) of below upload monitoring as well.
3pm - 8pm Upload
Does that make sense?
Yes it does. :)
I was wondering the same thing, thanks!
Personally I am going to keep with Virgin Media and upgrade to 50mbit when it comes out and see what the situation is like then.
TraxData
15-04-2008, 20:54
Personally I am going to keep with Virgin Media and upgrade to 50mbit when it comes out and see what the situation is like then.
50mbit will have STM applied to it as well and it gets capped down to 10mbit...
And upload has been put back to 1.5mbit from 5, useless bloody ....
GreyWolf
15-04-2008, 21:21
50mbit will have STM applied to it as well and it gets capped down to 10mbit...
And upload has been put back to 1.5mbit from 5, useless bloody ....
Any chance that it may go back to 5, or offer separate upload tariffs 1.5 - 5 - 10 ?
Personally I'd pay more for extra upload speed, if you pay a little bit more for 5 or 10 mbit upload then it would be worth it. Mind you that would depend on how much more you would have to pay for the extra upload speed.
GreyWolf
15-04-2008, 21:38
Personally I'd pay more for extra upload speed, if you pay a little bit more for 5 or 10 mbit upload then it would be worth it. Mind you that would depend on how much more you would have to pay for the extra upload speed.
Same here but the cost would not bother me. (as long as STM was removed)
AND the really BAD news is that you can use your 50Mb connection for a MAXIMUM of FIVE (5) minutes per day beforethey STM your behind right back down to 10Mb! what a joke!
Could've set the drop-down to at least 20Mb, but 10??? the ONLY bigger joke than that is VirginMedia!
And dont get me started on the upload, could've had that AT LEAST 10Mb, but oh no, not this company, charge over the odds, provide as little as possible!
GreyWolf
15-04-2008, 22:00
AND the really BAD news is that you can use your 50Mb connection for a MAXIMUM of FIVE (5) minutes per day beforethey STM your behind right back down to 10Mb! what a joke!
Could've set the drop-down to at least 20Mb, but 10??? the ONLY bigger joke than that is VirginMedia!
And dont get me started on the upload, could've had that AT LEAST 10Mb, but oh no, not this company, charge over the odds, provide as little as possible!
Agreed!
VM have the opportunity with docsis3 to stand out from other ISPs and lead the way in the broadband market.
Going by Trax post upload back down to 1.5mbit is just pathetic, you get more than that on BE* (ADSL+2)
Personally, I would sacrifice download speed to have higher upload speeds 30/10 sounds great to me....
Agreed!
VM have the opportunity with docsis3 to stand out from other ISPs and lead the way in the broadband market.
Going by Trax post upload back down to 1.5mbit is just pathetic, you get more than that on BE* (ADSL+2)
Personally, I would sacrifice download speed to have higher upload speeds 30/10 sounds great to me....
Yeah 10mbit upload rate would be excellent. Anything below 5mbit with the new 50mbit would be crap in my opinion. As for STM one the the things that has miffed me off about it is the fact that they have kept us in the dark about the changes in times. You don't know when you can download at full rate and when STM is going to kick in. In the response to my complaint to Virgin Media, they say they are going to update their website with the new STM time details. They really should have done that before implementing the changes.
I can't wait to get shot of my Virgin Broadband now. Between this STM rubbish and the possible introduction of Phorm, I want nothing more to do with VM. I just don't understand the point in having a 20/50meg connection if you can't use it. The thing is, I'd be more than happy to pay more for an uncapped 20/50meg connection but there is just no choice other than Virgin to get those kind of speeds. It's not like the service I pay for now is cheap anyway at nearly £40 a month. I've been a cable customer since they first introduced 1/2 meg broadband back when they were Comcast, things seem to have gone rapidly downhill since the change from NTL to Virgin though.
I'm just going to bin VM, get a BT line put in and go with a cheaper and phorm free ADSL provider. I think the only problem I might have is that we just got a VM freeview box installed and they may try to hold us to a further 12 months contract :(
TraxData
15-04-2008, 23:03
Agreed!
VM have the opportunity with docsis3 to stand out from other ISPs and lead the way in the broadband market.
Going by Trax post upload back down to 1.5mbit is just pathetic, you get more than that on BE* (ADSL+2)
Personally, I would sacrifice download speed to have higher upload speeds 30/10 sounds great to me....
As i have said before though, VM isnt interested in supplying high speed BB, only taking the profits from offering it and failing to deliver.
Right now the config says 1.5mbit but my upload says different (ignore the different language, im not on my laptop)
Speed is all over the place though.
I've just spent half an hour shouting and swearing at the PC, unable to play online due to the total poxy pathetic connection.
I'm not as bothered as you guys about STM and upload speeds, I'd pay £50 pm for a stable connection at 10 meg, never mind 50.
frogstamper
15-04-2008, 23:12
Same here but the cost would not bother me. (as long as STM was removed)
Couldn't agree more GreyWolf, as far as I'm concerned VM should drop the supposed "unlimited" boast, it comes with so many caveats its no longer viable. If VM are going to stm people for the best part of half a day if they are "greedy" why bother getting 20mb or even worse 50mb, personally I would rather pay a base fee each month and then pay by the GB, OK not ideal, but at least you get to use the speed you payed for without fear of being throttled.
The Jackal
15-04-2008, 23:20
As i have said before though, VM isnt interested in supplying high speed BB, only taking the profits from offering it and failing to deliver.
Right now the config says 1.5mbit but my upload says different (ignore the different language, im not on my laptop)
Speed is all over the place though.
What's your locale ?
You can't seed 5odd mbps in the UK unless you're on fibre or have I missed something here ?
What's your locale ?
You can't seed 5odd mbps in the UK unless you're on fibre or have I missed something here ?
Locale is Norwegian, bokmal.
The 50Mbit package he is using is seeding at 577 * 8 = 4616Kbps (Or 4.6Mb up)
TraxData
15-04-2008, 23:23
What's your locale ?
You can't seed 5odd mbps in the UK unless you're on fibre or have I missed something here ?
I'm actually in the UK, im just not using my lappy right now.
And as Druchii says, its around 5mbit upload (50mbit package)
The Jackal
15-04-2008, 23:28
Locale is Norwegian, bokmal.
The 50Mbit package he is using is seeding at 577 * 8 = 4616Kbps (Or 4.6Mb up)
Ah ic - Absolutely love the Scandinavians for having a decent quality of life. :)
---------- Post added at 23:28 ---------- Previous post was at 23:25 ----------
I'm actually in the UK, im just not using my lappy right now.
And as Druchii says, its around 5mbit upload (50mbit package)
Can the rest of us losers get it - no ?
(why oh why don't I just sort myself out with my own DSL :rolleyes: and not bother myself with these forums)
Ah ic - Absolutely love the Scandinavians for having a decent quality of life. :)
---------- Post added at 23:28 ---------- Previous post was at 23:25 ----------
Can the rest of us losers get it - no ?
(why oh why don't I just sort myself out with my own DSL :rolleyes: and not bother myself with these forums)
It's currently in trial phase, and apparently the network upgrades should be/are currently taking place to enable this launch by the end of 2008. (Supposedly anyway).
TraxData
15-04-2008, 23:29
Ah ic - Absolutely love the Scandinavians for having a decent quality of life. :)
---------- Post added at 23:28 ---------- Previous post was at 23:25 ----------
Can the rest of us losers get it - no ?
(why oh why don't I just sort myself out with my own DSL :rolleyes: and not bother myself with these forums)
I only have it for testing purposes (network loading/balance tests)...a few staff have it for the same purpose...i also know when the roll out dates are but thats not the point :p:
The Jackal
15-04-2008, 23:32
I only have it for testing purposes (network loading/balance tests)...a few staff have it for the same purpose...i also know when the roll out dates are but thats not the point :p:
Well as others have pointed out on paper it sounds good but won't be nice if it falls under STM
*** glimmer of hope fades away.
Well as others have pointed out on paper it sounds good but won't be nice if it falls under STM
*** glimmer of hope fades away.
Let's hope they don't STM it, like they planned not too...
TraxData
15-04-2008, 23:35
Let's hope they don't STM it, like they planned not too...
STM has always been planned for 50mbit, just...nobody told customers that!
They cannot afford the upgrades required for 50mbit anyway (gonna be a long time till they move to true docsis3 as well, gonna be stuck on pre for some time to come) so the only option is STM.
From what i have heard within the company there is a large amount of new limits that will be hitting us over time.
STM has always been planned for 50mbit, just...nobody told customers that!
They cannot afford the upgrades required for 50mbit anyway (gonna be a long time till they move to true docsis3 as well, gonna be stuck on pre for some time to come) so the only option is STM.
From what i have heard within the company there is a large amount of new limits that will be hitting us over time.
Jesus... (Sorry to all you religion lovers out there!)
I think VM have truly lost the plot this time tbh, if they do launch the 50Mb on time, but with STM and a bad upload, they'll have sht themselves in the foot allover again...
The Jackal
15-04-2008, 23:43
Jesus... (Sorry to all you religion lovers out there!)
I think VM have truly lost the plot this time tbh, if they do launch the 50Mb on time, but with STM and a bad upload, they'll have sht themselves in the foot allover again...
Not so - It 'IS' 50mbps and that's all that counts with the press.
Roll up ! Roll up ! UK's first 50mbps provider. :rolleyes:
Who wants to hear the opinions of a bunch of nerds and geeks anyway.
Right now the config says 1.5mbit but my upload says different (ignore the different language, im not on my laptop)
Speed is all over the place though.
Jees TD, I really wish I was YOU!!!
20Mb business broadband, PLUS the 50Mb too! where do u get all your luck boy :confused:
TraxData
15-04-2008, 23:45
Jees TD, I really wish I was YOU!!!
20Mb business broadband, PLUS the 50Mb too! where do u get all your luck boy :confused:
Luck? pfft no, i just know how to waste money :p:
In this house = 1x Be 24mbit Connection (2.5 up)
1x VM Business BB (20mbit test config, this will go back to 10 at the end of this month though)
1x VM Residential BB (i dont use this, stupid STM crap)
and 1x VM 50mbit Test kit
Being ex staff has advantages i guess...lol
frogstamper
15-04-2008, 23:46
Let's hope they don't STM it, like they planned not too...
I wouldn't hold my breath guys, but then again they might not at first just to get people to sign up for the service. I can see it now "Virgin Media regret to inform you that due to a very few users abusing the system, we have no choice but to traffic manage our 50mb service. These abusers were d/l one or even two HD films in an evening!!" I reckon three months before they bring stm to the 50mb service.:shrug:
The Jackal
15-04-2008, 23:46
Jees TD, I really wish I was YOU!!!
20Mb business broadband, PLUS the 50Mb too! where do u get all your luck boy :confused:
Bet he's good looking too with a couple of blondes on the run :)
TraxData
15-04-2008, 23:47
Bet he's good looking too with a couple of blondes on the run :)
LOL.
Oh i wish...
Only one...and she is all i need ;)
If they are going ever heavier with STM then any comparison should be at the STM speed, with a "turbo" to the higher speed, as that is what it is beginning to look like - just depends how heavy the STM is.
I'm on the 2Mbit, actually surprised when it upped from 1 to 2 through the cranky old PACE STB that was never reckoned to be capable of going over 1Mbit (until the alternative would have been people wanting SACM or box upgrades to get it).
Not too bothered if they crank the DL back to 1Mbit, I was one of the "opt outs" when the 300k with a "nothing to worry about" quota was going to be changed to 1Mbit with a 3GB quota.
They are going crazy on "headline speeds", but what's the damn point if they cannot provide them without STMing to death anyone who dares to use it.
Much rather have simple, honest speeds and quotas that you know where you are with.
Beginning to think it was a pity we got that loyalty deal, other it would have been bite the bullet, put up with an ugly satellite dish, and switch to Sky or CPW for broadband, and drop the barely used second phone line. - and get Sky 1 back!
Reliabilty of cable broadband does not seem to be any greater than with ADSL, though maybe next time the box barfs, it's time to make that fault call rather than just rebooting the old wreck, it's getting to need that rather too often.
Service = not great.
Price = awful unless on a deal.
T's & C's = getting worse.
I absolutely would not recommend Virginmedia to anyone, not even to get a signup bonus.
Bet he's good looking too with a couple of blondes on the run :)
lol bet he even has a combine 'arvester too! ;)
I think 50 meg is going to be an epic fail, a bit like when Carphone Warehouse's "free" BB offer was massively oversubscribed. Hopefully it will generate plenty of negative press for VM.
The Jackal
16-04-2008, 00:25
I think 50 meg is going to be an epic fail, a bit like when Carphone Warehouse's "free" BB offer was massively oversubscribed. Hopefully it will generate plenty of negative press for VM.
Nope this is the 'Ace' in Branson's deck and he's dying to play it.
Think business - think $$$ - It's a sure winner even with little take up of the product.
To be acknowledged as the market leader is what counts - Stuff if it works or not who cares (maybe a small minority).
Nope this is the 'Ace' in Branson's deck and he's dying to play it.
Think business - think $$$ - It's a sure winner even with little take up of the product.
To be acknowledged as the market leader is what counts - Stuff if it works or not who cares (maybe a small minority).
If its STM'd then its useless.
once 50 meg rolls out, and I decide to try it, will I be tied into 12 month contract at that speed, or will I be able to go back to 20 meg straightaway if I find the STM too much?
PeteTheMusicGuy
16-04-2008, 10:25
The Whole STM thing is starting to get beyond a joke. I'm seriously thinking of moving my broadband
The Whole STM thing is starting to get beyond a joke. I'm seriously thinking of moving my broadband
your not the only one, its got to the point that its become to confusing what you can do and what you cannot, worse that dailup and the old 2 hours automatic cutoff and reconnect days.
Sky HDD package is becomming more and more attractive, and this is from a loyal cutomers since Nymex days, i've virtually nearly had it with VM.
When you look at it, Sky has better/faster BB, better TV and BT give you a better and cheaper phone (privacy options are free).
Be offer much faster BB and a lot cheaper too.
Back in Nynex/C&W/NTL days the usual trick was to offer an equivalent service for slightly less than the competitors. Now the service is so bad (dial-up speeds, no Sky 1, very limited HD channel selection etc) and expensive I think people will start to leave in numbers.
frogstamper
17-04-2008, 13:42
When you look at it, Sky has better/faster BB, better TV and BT give you a better and cheaper phone (privacy options are free).
Be offer much faster BB and a lot cheaper too.
Back in Nynex/C&W/NTL days the usual trick was to offer an equivalent service for slightly less than the competitors. Now the service is so bad (dial-up speeds, no Sky 1, very limited HD channel selection etc) and expensive I think people will start to leave in numbers.
I can agree with you on the TV mojo, without a doubt Sky does offer a better choice, especially on HD. But on broadband like all adsl providers its dependant on numerous factors, line quality, distance from exchange etc.. On the whole VMs cable broadband is a better bet for reliability and speed.
TraxData
17-04-2008, 14:14
Just to let you guys know, i cant give out anymore info.
I've been told to "shut up" by virginmedia members (no names mentioned) and for mentioning alex in the newsgroups...they cut my internet connection off and threatened me verbally, so yes, im just going to keep my mouth shut from now on.
Chrysalis
17-04-2008, 14:22
It's not far off that now with current trials...
VM shot themself's in the foot with STM, didnt stop heavy downloaders at all, they just shifted their downloads to overnight/all morning/all afternoon, so it's actually made things worse.
VM have big problems if they congested during quiet periods of the day. Thats not something STM can fix only a hard cash capacity upgrade or gigs per month cap.
Just to let you guys know, i cant give out anymore info.
I've been told to "shut up" by virginmedia members (no names mentioned) and for mentioning alex in the newsgroups...they cut my internet connection off and threatened me verbally, so yes, im just going to keep my mouth shut from now on.
Virginmedia members being staff or customers? and you're going to "shut up" because you'll lose your connection if you don't? you don't even work for the company.
TraxData
17-04-2008, 14:32
Virginmedia members being staff or customers? and you're going to "shut up" because you'll lose your connection if you don't? you don't even work for the company.
Staff, namely alex brown who got a little upset and decided to get my connection cut off...then i got a rather verbal warning over the telephone today about my "behaviour" as it were and that i should shut up, apologise to alex and keep off the virginmedia newsgroups, followed by if i do it again they'll disconnect my account permanently.
I have other people in the house who also use the connection, so i've decided to just keep my mouth shut on ALL VM subjects.
I'm ex staff.
Alex has had many people disconnected in the past and now he is back in the groups again, he will carry on threatening people and getting them cut off. I can agree with them asking you to shut up about Alex being a liar, but not about anything else.
I wouldn't give in to their threats so easily. Charles knows how it works :D
TraxData
17-04-2008, 14:41
Alex has had many people disconnected in the past and now he is back in the groups again, he will carry on threatening people and getting them cut off. I can agree with them asking you to shut up about Alex being a liar, but not about anything else.
I wouldn't give in to their threats so easily. Charles knows how it works :D
Problem is he is a liar and he knows it, that's why he got me cut off, guess the truth hurts.
I didnt have a choice about giving in, if i didnt it would just mean grief from the gf, as they cut tv/phone off as well..so she missed all her soaps...and her VOD stuff.
He is a liar, he has to be a liar to keep his job. he chooses to posts in the groups as a representative of Virginmedia nobody gave him the job. at one time him and Fergal used to be honest and help the users out in the groups. but that was when he was being paid by Telewest. now he is just the person that works for Virginmedia and he has to say what they tell him to say.
Customers are asking for answers to questions of Phorm, STM and everything that is affecting them as a customer. none are forthcoming from anyone from Virginmedia. Alex comes along and just aggrevates everybody with a load of waffle. it just needs someone other than Alex to answer the questions and it would all calm down a bit. but they still keep ignoring the requests for someone to come on the groups and answer the questions. We just get Alex Brown and his load of waffle.
Fergal has gone quiet, I think he is just getting on with his own job and keeping out of it all :)
I've seen your post in the groups, but you haven't told everyone that you're not allowed to post in the groups anymore. did they tell you to apologise, and to agree to not post in there anymore for your connection back?
Chrysalis
17-04-2008, 14:51
Agreed!
VM have the opportunity with docsis3 to stand out from other ISPs and lead the way in the broadband market.
Going by Trax post upload back down to 1.5mbit is just pathetic, you get more than that on BE* (ADSL+2)
Personally, I would sacrifice download speed to have higher upload speeds 30/10 sounds great to me....
Ofcom might have something to do with that, they seem intent on keeping the market even, even if it means consumers lose out, I cant see why VM would have capped the upload when they had no problems with it been higher in the trial, but ofcom would have a problem with it as it would have caused problems for all those LLU isps and for BT having to invest in fiber to match it.
---------- Post added at 14:51 ---------- Previous post was at 14:49 ----------
STM has always been planned for 50mbit, just...nobody told customers that!
They cannot afford the upgrades required for 50mbit anyway (gonna be a long time till they move to true docsis3 as well, gonna be stuck on pre for some time to come) so the only option is STM.
From what i have heard within the company there is a large amount of new limits that will be hitting us over time.
Ahh forget my previous post then so the real reason for 1.5mbit upload is 50mbit is gonna be provided on current docsis due to constraints for the upgrades?
I didn't think there was any testing of 50Mb in your area.
How did you manage to get a 20Mb Business account when they only do 4 or 10?
Chrysalis
17-04-2008, 14:54
Problem is he is a liar and he knows it, that's why he got me cut off, guess the truth hurts.
I didnt have a choice about giving in, if i didnt it would just mean grief from the gf, as they cut tv/phone off as well..so she missed all her soaps...and her VOD stuff.
Might be better to change isp and then be able to speak freely.
TraxData
17-04-2008, 14:57
I didn't think there was any testing of 50Mb in your area.
How did you manage to get a 20Mb Business account when they only do 4 or 10?
I wasnt on the official trials, i am ex staff...and was put on area basis trial (there is practically staff in every area testing connections for load balancing issues)
they do alot higher than that, hell they go upto 100mbit...but that's 750/month.
20mbit business config is already on the servers, just not rolled out...and i dont have it anymore, it was switched off as of yesterday.
---------- Post added at 14:57 ---------- Previous post was at 14:57 ----------
Might be better to change isp and then be able to speak freely.
That would be the easiest option, but why should i be scared away from someone in management?
I've seen your post in the groups, but you haven't told everyone that you're not allowed to post in the groups anymore. did they tell you to apologise, and to agree to not post in there anymore for your connection back?
Yes they told me to apologise otherwise i would not get my net connection back and if i posted in the newsgroups again i would get a 7 day suspension and then a review whether they should cut me off permanently.
Edit : Also been told i am not allowed to release any info regarding any STM trials as well.
The Jackal
17-04-2008, 15:06
they do alot higher than that, hell they go upto 100mbit...but that's 750/month.
What type of connection is it ? 750/month is dirt cheap
kryogenik
17-04-2008, 15:11
Virgin Media or Virgin Mafia?
Grr.
Sorry to hear it Trax. Truth hurts.
What a bunch of pathetic Cyber Cops.
Sort everyone else out on Be and go public.
:edit: Ought to make it clear I didn't see any of your posts so can't comment on what you said.
I have seen the staff there disconnect someone before though - though it's within their AUP to do so, I thought that was damn harsh too.
I think the staff have the capability to stop things before they get to this stage & from what I've seen of AB's attitude in his posts, he doesn't exactly promote harmony. Pot, kettle, black to an extent, perhaps.
Yes they told me to apologise otherwise i would not get my net connection back and if i posted in the newsgroups again i would get a 7 day suspension and then a review whether they should cut me off permanently.
Edit : Also been told i am not allowed to release any info regarding any STM trials as well.
Did they threaten you about having to have a tattoo consisting of just numbers?
Just to let you guys know, i cant give out anymore info.
I've been told to "shut up" by virginmedia members (no names mentioned) and for mentioning alex in the newsgroups...they cut my internet connection off and threatened me verbally, so yes, im just going to keep my mouth shut from now on.
:erm: Your comments were pretty harsh, mate!
Not that they justified such an arrogant, bullying and potentially illegal reaction.
I was rolling around in fits but I can imagine Alex would have been furious!
(But far too cowardly to engage you in open debate, I note.)
I wonder if the CF mods would be willing to set you up with a second account for, let's say, your more controversial posts?
I mean, it's an issue of your right to free speech!
(And ours to hear dissenting views and leaked information.)
Don't stop your posts, just shuffle identities?
So Mr A Brown visits this site does he?Well how come he's not listening then?Or making his presence felt. Or actually engaging in a conversation with his customer base?
Sounds rather cowardly to me.:rolleyes:
So Mr A Brown visits this site does he?Well how come he's not listening then?Or making his presence felt. Or actually engaging in a conversation with his customer base?
Sheesh!
I think he only popped into VM's newsgroups to try to justify the new STM statement -- haven't noticed his royal presence since.
Sounds rather cowardly to me.:rolleyes:
Yeah, but you wouldn't want to repeat that in vm.feedback!
:Yes:
[QUOTE=TraxData;34530900]I wasnt on the official trials, i am ex staff...and was put on area basis trial (there is practically staff in every area testing connections for load balancing issues)QUOTE]
and they left you on when you left the company... that seems to be a bit of an oversight... what modem do you have to use for the 50Mb?
Just to let you guys know, i cant give out anymore info.
I've been told to "shut up" by virginmedia members (no names mentioned) and for mentioning alex in the newsgroups...they cut my internet connection off and threatened me verbally, so yes, im just going to keep my mouth shut from now on.
That happened to another member of staff of here to.
Sheesh!
I think he only popped into VM's newsgroups to try to justify the new STM statement -- haven't noticed his royal presence since.
Yeah, but you wouldn't want to repeat that in vm.feedback!
:Yes:
No but I'll state it load and clear on a site where VM have no right to dictate what is said in a PUBLIC forum..Provided no insider secrets are given out...and it's hardly a secret about STM after all.Or Phorm.Or price increases.:rolleyes:
Quite a good read that on the newsgroups, nice one for standing up. :tu:
If (sorry when) it does go 24/7 I think I'll have to leave the BB side of VM and look elsewhere. :td:
kryogenik
17-04-2008, 16:33
Quite a good read that on the newsgroups, nice one for standing up. :tu:
Would have liked to have seen for myself but appears to have been deleted from the server?
PeteTheMusicGuy
17-04-2008, 16:34
I'm guessing no one made a copy of it as I would have liked to have seen it too :)
Would have liked to have seen for myself but appears to have been deleted from the server?
Still there for me at virginmedia.feedback
TraxData
17-04-2008, 16:44
Still there for me at virginmedia.feedback
Yea...it's still there, just a fair few of my posts have been deleted.
kryogenik
17-04-2008, 16:51
Grabbed all new (24 hours or so worth) headers and bodies earlier and couldn't see anything. I'll try a reset.
Cheers.
If they have been deleted a reset won't bring them back :D
There should be 248 posts in the thread, and 9 of which are from Darren.
kryogenik
17-04-2008, 16:57
If they have been deleted a reset won't bring them back :D
lol, no, I know that!
:D
No, what I mean is VM's NG servers are flaky sometimes.
It's worth a reset as the posts are quite clearly not there for me.
I'm specifically looking for Trax's alias and I could only see his apology.
frogstamper
17-04-2008, 17:04
Just to let you guys know, i cant give out anymore info.
I've been told to "shut up" by virginmedia members (no names mentioned) and for mentioning alex in the newsgroups...they cut my internet connection off and threatened me verbally, so yes, im just going to keep my mouth shut from now on.
Well today's a sad then Trax, I for one found your posts and advice well useful, maybe if you just lie low for a while?
kryogenik
17-04-2008, 17:14
Nah deffo gone.
What I meant before was that I may have downloaded the headers and bodies (reader is set to grab both) before they were deleted as the machine was on overnight.
Dunno what I was trying to achieve with a reset actually..
:p:
Nah deffo gone.
What I meant before was that I may have downloaded the headers and bodies (reader is set to grab both) before they were deleted as the machine was on overnight.
Dunno what I was trying to achieve with a reset actually..
:p:
I use Xnews for text, I find it much more manageable than anything else going, maybe that might help as they are still there.
If you've already downloaded them to your hard drive before they were deleted you can still read them. if you try to download them after they have been deleted then you can't read them :)
I've just reset the group and all 9 posts by Darren in that thread are still on the server.
I'm happy to PM the (long) full text of the relevant exchange to anyone who's interested.
(I've not trimmed the posts so there's an awful lot of duplicated quotations, etc. but believe I've got all of them.)
watzizname
17-04-2008, 17:58
I'm happy to PM the (long) full text of the relevant exchange to anyone who's interested.
(I've not trimmed the posts so there's an awful lot of duplicated quotations, etc. but believe I've got all of them.)
If it isn't too much trouble, i'd love to have a look at it :)
I'm happy to PM the (long) full text of the relevant exchange to anyone who's interested.
(I've not trimmed the posts so there's an awful lot of duplicated quotations, etc. but believe I've got all of them.)
Yes please :)
*****EDIT*****
Now received it. Many thanks.
Seems VM are still up to there old tricks. why do i seem to remember this happening before on this forum. ?
There seems to be to many hints that VM have been trialing PHORM, It was mentioned in that thread and it has been hinted at here. I think a definitive statement is needed on the subject instead of the abnormally long NON statement we seem to be getting. The STM trials were only admitted to when VM were seen to be doing it, Could it be the same for PHORM i wonder and until we can produce evidence they will say sod all.
kryogenik
17-04-2008, 19:23
If you've already downloaded them to your hard drive before they were deleted you can still read them. if you try to download them after they have been deleted then you can't read them :)
I've just reset the group and all 9 posts by Darren in that thread are still on the server.
Oh, right. I must have seen them then - thanks Gary.
They didn't look that bad to me to be honest, but probably against AUP, to be fair.
I see much, MUCH worse in other NG's, but of course, non-mafia'd ones.
;) (j/k)
Knocking about in NG's again more recently, I remembered why I stopped using them to any real extent in the first place. There's some right zealots who'll pick up on virtually any wording and turn it into some crazed online quest.
Cropstar
17-04-2008, 20:00
The unlimited claim will be a bit of a joke if they introduce this. I imagine someone will complain and they'll be told to drop it by the ASA.
I'm trying to push the tag: "RatnersMedia - unlimited but not limitless"
frogstamper
17-04-2008, 21:08
Just a little taster of whats on VMs "Traffic management" site.
What traffic management policies are you applying to the heaviest users?
That depends on the broadband package you're signed up to. And it's important to remember that these traffic management policies only apply during peak times (4pm till 9pm) – as this is when the speeds are likely to be affected by people using more than their fair share.
Well, as we said, we've carried out a trial in which we looked closely at when the heaviest users were affecting the service for everybody else.
We found that this small minority of customers were actually downloading or uploading enough information to significantly affect the service for other customers' broadband service. To put it another way, just 3% of uploaders and downloaders were affecting the service for the other 97% of uploaders and downloaders during peak times (that's between 4pm and 9pm).
Once again VM are telling us quote, "its important to remember these traffic management policies only apply during peak times [4pm to 9pm]"
Also if they expect us to believe that stm only affects 3% of customers they must think we came down with the last shower of brown stuff. Add to this even more stm times, you must be joking VM!!
kryogenik
17-04-2008, 21:18
I'm trying to push the tag: "RatnersMedia - unlimited but not limitless"
VirginMafia - you can have an opinion as long as you don't express it..
To put it another way, just 3% of uploaders and downloaders were affecting the service for the other 97% of uploaders and downloaders
Always blaming everybody else for them selling a service they can't supply when a few people try to use it. it will be exactly the same when the 50meg starts. they will roll out STM mk16 and let the customers fight between themselves while they take the money at the door.
Always blaming everybody else for them selling a service they can't supply when a few people try to use it. it will be exactly the same when the 50meg starts. they will roll out STM mk16 and let the customers fight between themselves while they take the money at the door.
What they REALLY mean is this: You are in the top 3-5 IF you can actually get a decent speed, so the STM you to make it much more fair for the people that CONSTANTLY get rubbish speeds!
What they REALLY mean is this: You are in the top 3-55 IF you can actually get a decent speed, so the STM you to make it much more fair for the people that CONSTANTLY get rubbish speeds!
One day they call them top 3% 'abusers' of the system. then they think oh we can't call them that it sounds wrong. we'll just tell everyone that it's their fault anyway and while they're scrapping we'll advertise for new 20meg warriors. :D
Size M: 450Mb
Does that mean that I can only download 450mb from 4 till 9?
If so, that is terrible!
Size M: 450Mb
Does that mean that I can only download 450mb from 4 till 9?
If so, that is terrible!
'Fraid so, zerovox.
Pathetic isn't it?
And if rumours prove true, there will me more limits/throttling to come later in the year.
frogstamper
18-04-2008, 00:36
Size M: 450Mb
Does that mean that I can only download 450mb from 4 till 9?
If so, that is terrible!
No mate its even worse, you can only d/l 300mb on the M package between 4.00pm and 9.00pm before stm kicks in.
This also is on the Traffic Management site.
Will the thresholds change?
The way that our customers use their broadband is changing all the time, so it's possible that in the future we may increase or decrease the thresholds - don't worry though, we'll always let you know on our website if we're going to make any changes, and we don't expect the thresholds to change very often.
The way we use BB is always changing is because we are trying to keep up with all the draconian rules that VM keep imposing.
No mate its even worse, you can only d/l 300mb on the M package between 4.00pm and 9.00pm before stm kicks in.
Damn, you're correct frogstamper.
Sorry, zerovox. I was looking at the trial STM figures -- I must be tired!
:dunce:
frogstamper
18-04-2008, 00:57
Damn, you're correct frogstamper.
Sorry, zerovox. I was looking at the trial STM figures -- I must be tired!
:dunce:
I gotta be honest ceedee I checked it three times, its not often your wrong mate;)
Oh I'm more than willing to hold my hand up whenever I'm in error.
To be honest, I'm relieved that you and the other good folk here on CF don't automatically accept information without double-checking it.
We all make mistakes sometimes.
:o:
PeteTheMusicGuy
18-04-2008, 01:54
Well at this time of the morning its easy to do that
Gawd, I might actually have to pay £105 for BT to reconnect my BT phone line, and get some other form of broadband. I was looking at Sky, but I would have to go for the most expensive package or I get a download limit!
I don't need fast broadband, I just need 2 meg, with unlimited downloads =[
I don't need fast broadband, I just need 2 meg, with unlimited downloads =[
How about a 4Mb connection with no STM, low pings and a commitment from VM to get you a decent speed, all for £35.25/mth?
Have a look at switching to an NTL Business Broadband (http://www.ntltelewestbusiness.co.uk/products__solutions/broadband__internet_services/business_broadband.aspx) connection?
(And here's an interesting thread detailing Kymmy's recent experience (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12/33629083-residential-to-business-braodband-migration.html) of making the switch to 10Mb BBB.)
How about a 4Mb connection with no STM, low pings and a commitment from VM to get you a decent speed, all for £35.25/mth?
Have a look at switching to an NTL Business Broadband (http://www.ntltelewestbusiness.co.uk/products__solutions/broadband__internet_services/business_broadband.aspx) connection?
(And here's an interesting thread detailing Kymmy's recent experience (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12/33629083-residential-to-business-braodband-migration.html) of making the switch to 10Mb BBB.)
I agree, NTL:Telewest is MUCH better than VirginMedia's residential!!!
How about a 4Mb connection with no STM, low pings and a commitment from VM to get you a decent speed, all for £35.25/mth?
Have a look at switching to an NTL Business Broadband (http://www.ntltelewestbusiness.co.uk/products__solutions/broadband__internet_services/business_broadband.aspx) connection?
(And here's an interesting thread detailing Kymmy's recent experience (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12/33629083-residential-to-business-braodband-migration.html) of making the switch to 10Mb BBB.)
£35 is a lot to pay a month! Its a little out of my range I think.
I think I could get Sky to pay to reactivate one of my old BT phone lines, and pay for their top option which would be £10 a month. I have Sky TV already.
I'm not sure if to get them to pay the reactivation, I would have to take phone with them though. Although, it is free, so its no bother.
frogstamper
18-04-2008, 22:45
Can anybody tell me is it just VM who are bringing in all these rules and caveats to their "unlimited" service, or are other ISPs taking similar action, especially those that offer an unlimited service?.
brundles
18-04-2008, 23:12
Edit : Also been told i am not allowed to release any info regarding any STM trials as well.
Not good :( Despite the doubters you've been honest and given good info. Unfortunately VM don't like their customers knowing what they're actually getting for their money :(.
One thing I've said before and I'll say again as the case here: VM aren't using STM to protect the network - they're using it to try and force people to upgrade. Specifically people like me on the L package who download a fair bit but aren't in a mad rush for it. My usage wouldn't change if I upgraded and I wouldn't particularly benefit from the extra speed - the only people that would would be VM getting extra money from me.
Cropstar
19-04-2008, 14:25
One thing I've said before and I'll say again as the case here: VM aren't using STM to protect the network - they're using it to try and force people to upgrade.
So upgrading speeds on people's original package makes people more likely to upgrade? :confused:
Personally, most people I know don't reach these limits regularly, clearly there's a disproprtionate number of people on forums like these who expect constant 24/7 max speed connections on here
frogstamper
19-04-2008, 14:46
So upgrading speeds on people's original package makes people more likely to upgrade? :confused:
Personally, most people I know don't reach these limits regularly, clearly there's a disproprtionate number of people on forums like these who expect constant 24/7 max speed connections on here
I very rarely will go over a 3gb limit in the evenings, but the proposed 11 hour a day stm is making a mockery of a so called "unlimited" service. Also, yes I do expect my speed to be at or around the 20mb mark 24/7, that is after all what I am paying for
So upgrading speeds on people's original package makes people more likely to upgrade? :confused:
Personally, most people I know don't reach these limits regularly, clearly there's a disproprtionate number of people on forums like these who expect constant 24/7 max speed connections on here
Some do and some don't. a lot of it is not just about STM itself and the limits that go with it.
Karl Rio from technical support is saying that STM is not a fault and won't be reported. so anyone that is being wrongly affected by STM which a lot are and have been for some time, as VM confirmed they were and shouldn't be. these people now cannot get anyone to look into the *fault* because it is not a *fault* it was regarded as a fault just before the statement was released detailing which areas are affected, but not since.
VM are saying that all slow speeds reported that are a result of STM out of hours are not a fault. so everyone outside the stated trial areas can expect to be STM'd anytime, and there is nothing you can do about it because it is *not a fault* it is intentional.
brundles
19-04-2008, 15:44
So upgrading speeds on people's original package makes people more likely to upgrade? :confused:
Personally, most people I know don't reach these limits regularly, clearly there's a disproprtionate number of people on forums like these who expect constant 24/7 max speed connections on here
No, you misunderstand me. By having different STM thresholds on different packages they are trying to force upgrades not because you want a faster connection but because of the STM free capacity of the connection.
I'm not looking for a maximum connection 24/7, but if STM comes in round the clock as TraxData has hinted then you're not going to see maximum connection for more than about 30 minutes a day...
Just got hit by STM this afternoon around 2pm, so the new STM times are definitely in effect in the London Enfield area, my 4Mbit connection has been cut to 1 Mbit and will stay like that for the next 5 hours. Then at 7pm I will go back up to the full 4Mbit speed but will then hit the evening "time zone" which will last for a further 2 hours, so from 2pm this afternoon the only time I can download without worrying about quotas or time zones is after 9pm ... no thanks, this is not what I paid for and if it is implemented and that seems likely ... I'm offskie!
-
I'm not in a STM trial area and my download just got caught by the (normal) STM limit -- I was only about 30MB over the 800MB limit.
Had I been in Enfield, I'd have been able to download 50% *more* than currently permitted.
So for 'medium downloaders' and those who can wait to make large download after 9pm, the new trial STM limits could be an improvement.
My main problem with STM is that Virgin can and do change the rules as it suits them and they do so without notification, I 've just been through their website, there is nothing other than the 4-9pm STM times. How can we know how much we are allowed to download if we don't know what's going on in these trials, Also from what's been said here there is a possibility that STM will be extended beyond the 9pm time, so whats next 10am - midnight maybe. I reserve judgement on all this I'm quite happy with my 4 Mbit connection, I will be even happier when upgraded to 10 Mbit and if contention does not become an issue I won't be bothered by whatever STM Virgin Introduce. STM on a 10 Mbit connection is workable for me. STM on a 4 Mbit connection cut down to 1 MBit is not, and I'm a long way from being a heavy downloader.
-
moroboshi
19-04-2008, 17:43
Sorry if this has already been asked, but these new throttling levels sound extremely agressive and will hit pretty much anyone who uses the net for video. I wouldn't fancy buying an HD movie over Xbox Live then have it fail half way through as I had hit some completely ridiculous bandwidth cap.
My question is this - would using some sort of tunnelling system, like VPMTunnel, somehow get around the throttling? If not, is there any way around it? It's bad enough Virgin are implementing something as obnoxious and basically illegal as Phorm, but this capping/throttling is getting so bad they really seem determined to destroy their own platform.
I wouldn't fancy buying an HD movie over Xbox Live then have it fail half way through as I had hit some completely ridiculous bandwidth cap.
.
100% agree, and this is what ennoys me the most. I pay for 20meg top tier package , then pay for xbox Live and other subscriptions and i cannot even use them to the full extent making the whole internet and broadband worthless unless i use "them out of hours" that don't suit me because VM cannot provide and any sort of "decent level of service" without putting stupid restrictions in place.
VM is really going down the pan these days i'm afraid to say
Sorry if this has already been asked, but these new throttling levels sound extremely agressive and will hit pretty much anyone who uses the net for video. I wouldn't fancy buying an HD movie over Xbox Live then have it fail half way through as I had hit some completely ridiculous bandwidth cap.
Would an ~4GB Xbox movie download actually "fail" when an STM restriction cut-in? I'd have hoped that MS's fairly sophisticated software could cope with an interruption or slowdown.
I don't want to be seen to be supporting any STM but as I mentioned in an earlier post, the trial STM limits are less aggressive (at least for my 4Mb connection) that those already in operation.
My question is this - would using some sort of tunnelling system, like VPMTunnel, somehow get around the throttling? If not, is there any way around it?
The data would still be flowing through your UBR to your connection so I can't see it would make any difference, apart from slowing down your pre-STM speed.
It's bad enough Virgin are implementing something as obnoxious and basically illegal as Phorm, but this capping/throttling is getting so bad they really seem determined to destroy their own platform.
If both are implemented as currently understood, I'd tend to agree with you.
The only thing I can suggest is writing to VM to voice your concerns.
I don't see myself as being better off under the new STM all they have done is extend it further, the existing STM was quite clear to everyone, the peak hours were designated as 4-9 pm, and you knew your allowance. Outside of those hours your'e free to download as much or as little as you like. The new STM kicks in at 10am and thereafter you will need a calculator to anticipate what you are able to download without triggering STM. e.g I like to watch streaming sports in a window on the desktop while I'm working on saturday afternoons a football game may take 700MB it may take 1GB, it's impossible to say or predict, if the game goes into extra time it's quite possible that I will be STM'd. I envisage problems when this goes national, this is NOT broadband.
TraxData
19-04-2008, 21:20
Would an ~4GB Xbox movie download actually "fail" when an STM restriction cut-in? I'd have hoped that MS's fairly sophisticated software could cope with an interruption or slowdown.
While it would not "fail" per say, it will restrict to slower speeds and take almost 4x the amount of time to download, if your doing this in the early evening or late or night, hell or even before you have to go out, you may as well cancel it all together, Xbox360 is not something id wish to keep on for really long periods of time either.
I don't want to be seen to be supporting any STM but as I mentioned in an earlier post, the trial STM limits are less aggressive (at least for my 4Mb connection) that those already in operation.
Depends if you do any downloading, have more than 1 person using it or use the net for anything more than basic stuff, with the new STM it gets to a point of where you "darent" use it for anything incase most of your connection gets taken off you.
The data would still be flowing through your UBR to your connection so I can't see it would make any difference, apart from slowing down your pre-STM speed.
Again, goes back to the amount of time it will take the download to complete, we want faster speeds so we can finish our downloads quicker, not wait even longer.
frogstamper
19-04-2008, 21:27
If VM are so concerned about the amount people are downloading, why on earth are they upgrading their 4mb package to 10mb and bringing in a 50mb service? Surely if you have 50mb VM will just be able to stm you even faster.:shrug:
someone should make a load of campaign leaflets and stick them to all their cabs in the streets, a national campaign of disgruntled customers. Maybe they take note if all their cabs suddenly became advertisng boards!
someone should make a load of campaign leaflets and stick them to all their cabs in the streets, a national campaign of disgruntled customers. Maybe they take note if all their cabs suddenly became advertisng boards!
An even better idea, print some big anti-phorm posters & stick them to VM's vans that you see left unattended, I have been tempted a few times as there are quite a few VM employees with vans live near me
moroboshi
20-04-2008, 09:09
If VM are so concerned about the amount people are downloading, why on earth are they upgrading their 4mb package to 10mb and bringing in a 50mb service? Surely if you have 50mb VM will just be able to stm you even faster.:shrug:
Good point. With a 50mbit connection you would end up being capped within minutes, which renders the whole, no doubt expensive affair completely pointless.
What irks me almost as much as this ridiculous throttling is how Virgin continue to advertise their service as being incredibly fast for those who hate to wait, and free of download limits. It's at best incredibly selective with the truth, or a less generous sort would just say it's a flat out lie. Maybe some sort of advertising standards body could look into it and slap their wrists.
arcamalpha2004
20-04-2008, 10:19
In that case how long will it be before 9pm until 10 am becomes congested with everyone switching their usage.
24 hour STM perhaps?
In all probability it will happen.
VM making the customer suffer for their inability to invest.
I really do hope they go to the wall, every five minutes they are coming up with these ideas that will not work, instead of wasting millions on stars to promote the company they should put the money where it matters.
People are only using what they are paying for.
---------- Post added at 10:16 ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 ----------
I very rarely will go over a 3gb limit in the evenings, but the proposed 11 hour a day stm is making a mockery of a so called "unlimited" service. Also, yes I do expect my speed to be at or around the 20mb mark 24/7, that is after all what I am paying for
There are people who are quite happy to pay top buck for a substandard speed.
" Ah well, I know I pay for 20mb but atleast I am getting 10mb " :erm:
Forget all the talk about 50mb, get your house in order vm and give people what they are paying for.
---------- Post added at 10:19 ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 ----------
Some do and some don't. a lot of it is not just about STM itself and the limits that go with it.
Karl Rio from technical support is saying that STM is not a fault and won't be reported. so anyone that is being wrongly affected by STM which a lot are and have been for some time, as VM confirmed they were and shouldn't be. these people now cannot get anyone to look into the *fault* because it is not a *fault* it was regarded as a fault just before the statement was released detailing which areas are affected, but not since.
VM are saying that all slow speeds reported that are a result of STM out of hours are not a fault. so everyone outside the stated trial areas can expect to be STM'd anytime, and there is nothing you can do about it because it is *not a fault* it is intentional.
Sorry Gary there is something people can do, as with the phorm issue.
They can complain to vm, escalate that complaint, and then take the issue up with the regulator.
On the other hand people can just put up with it and be ripped off.
Mick Fisher
20-04-2008, 10:21
In all probability it will happen.
VM making the customer suffer for their inability to invest.
I really do hope they go to the wall, every five minutes they are coming up with these ideas that will not work, instead of wasting millions on stars to promote the company they should put the money where it matters.
People are only using what they are paying for.
Agreed.
They have been playing that game ever since Ntl was created. :mad:
arcamalpha2004
20-04-2008, 10:40
If VM are so concerned about the amount people are downloading, why on earth are they upgrading their 4mb package to 10mb and bringing in a 50mb service? Surely if you have 50mb VM will just be able to stm you even faster.:shrug:
Quite simply frogstamper they are ripping people off.
This crowd just cannot be trusted.
---------- Post added at 10:28 ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 ----------
someone should make a load of campaign leaflets and stick them to all their cabs in the streets, a national campaign of disgruntled customers. Maybe they take note if all their cabs suddenly became advertisng boards!
That is a thought :)
---------- Post added at 10:32 ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 ----------
An even better idea, print some big anti-phorm posters & stick them to VM's vans that you see left unattended, I have been tempted a few times as there are quite a few VM employees with vans live near me
A4 Paper is quite cheap now.
There is always one parked up at one of the local pubs here.
---------- Post added at 10:40 ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 ----------
So upgrading speeds on people's original package makes people more likely to upgrade? :confused:
Personally, most people I know don't reach these limits regularly, clearly there's a disproprtionate number of people on forums like these who expect constant 24/7 max speed connections on here
No, what people want is what they are paying for.
If they happen to wake one day at say 2 in the morning they want to get their downloading done with no hassle, likewise at 4 in the afternoon, so you see it is not simply wanting a 24/7 max speed, but at the price they charge I expect it.
... that's so true, it's like you have to calculate what you've downloaded that day, check which time zone you're in and then hope that the latest game demo that your about to download is not gonna trigger STM and put your connection on Slo-Mo for the next 5 hours.
I wouldn't mind so much if i got full speed when outside of STM hours, but alas, here I am on 20mb getting 724kbps from newsgroups.
Seriously thinking about Be now.
I wouldn't mind so much if i got full speed when outside of STM hours, but alas, here I am on 20mb getting 724kbps from newsgroups.
Seriously thinking about Be now.
That sounds to me like more than STM or congestion, maybe a problem with your line or modem.
Recommend you contact Tech Support via their newsgroup and get them to check it.
Need help getting onto VM's Tech Support newsgroup? (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showpost.php?p=34527446&postcount=6)
That sounds to me like more than STM or congestion, maybe a problem with your line or modem.
Recommend you contact Tech Support via their newsgroup and get them to check it.
Need help getting onto VM's Tech Support newsgroup? (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showpost.php?p=34527446&postcount=6)
Yeah i've used them when my signal levels were borked, irony is my speeds were better then...
Maybe worth another try.
from the time VM said .... whopee! here's 20 Mbit, grab some and people did, and then they found their connection could give them 5 Mbit or 4Mbit or god forbid 1 Mbit, and they were paying through the nose for fast "unlimited" broadband, I said to myself ... this is just a bunch of scammers, worse than the nigerian 419'ers. ... give me a freakin break man. They do it because they can !!!
I wouldn't mind so much if i got full speed when outside of STM hours, but alas, here I am on 20mb getting 724kbps from newsgroups.
Seriously thinking about Be now.
Seconded (Not the newsgroups bit my newsgroups access is fine, but if they implement this im off and have been a mostly happy camper with ntl/virgin for a good 5 years now) And i'd save nearly 20 quid a month with Be.
I'm initiating my own STM. It's called YDWP ... YOU DELIVER WE PAY.
I'm initiating my own STM. It's called YDWP ... YOU DELIVER WE PAY.
Good luck.
Your STM policy may affect your credit rating............;)
I know, I just dont care .... have to log off now because VM have designated this as my "quality time" ... omigosh it's almost 3 pm and I can download whatever I like for the next hour ... thank you master! would it be OK if I have my tea at say around 7.pm & then may I download a few more MB's at your pleasure sir before I go to bed at 9 pm sir .... you get the picture, they're taking the you know what, we rollover or we die, or we move to Sweeden ... nice broadband, shame about the music ... ;)
-
Like many people I have been considering Be. Thus far the need for LLU has put me off (have a BT phone line anyway, cheaper than VM and you get privacy features like Caller ID for free) but at this point I'm more than ready to try it.
Worst that happens is that it doesn't work, I cancel and go back to VM. Best thing that happens is I end up with a faster, limit free internet connection.
frogstamper
20-04-2008, 20:24
Like many people I have been considering Be. Thus far the need for LLU has put me off (have a BT phone line anyway, cheaper than VM and you get privacy features like Caller ID for free) but at this point I'm more than ready to try it.
Worst that happens is that it doesn't work, I cancel and go back to VM. Best thing that happens is I end up with a faster, limit free internet connection.
Hi mojo, Ive been thinking the same way, also I looked on this site and I'm only 0.25mile from the exchange, if you do go for it keep us posted, cheers.:tu:
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/checker2.php
Mick Fisher
21-04-2008, 00:10
Be must be loving all this.
No amount of advertising could possibly generate so much interest in Be's products as VM's antics with Phorm, STM and the rest have done. And from Be's point of view it's ALL FREE.
The only drawback is, Be is owned by O2 and O2 is a subsidiary of BT. :shocked: (I believe, correct me if I am wrong.)
Oh well, seems you can't win them all. :(
If the upload rate on 50mbit is 1.5mbit then I will consider going to Be. Hopefully the new upload rate will be 5mbit.
02 is totally seperate from bt as isp's go
Mick Fisher
21-04-2008, 01:27
02 is totally seperate from bt as isp's go
Thanks for putting me right. That's a relief to know.
It seems to me that ISP's are the only group of business's that are allowed to make it up as they go along just by rewriting the T&C's as they go.
So true..
---------- Post added at 03:35 ---------- Previous post was at 02:58 ----------
No mate its even worse, you can only d/l 300mb on the M package between 4.00pm and 9.00pm before stm kicks in.
This also is on the Traffic Management site.
Will the thresholds change?
The way that our customers use their broadband is changing all the time, so it's possible that in the future we may increase or decrease the thresholds - don't worry though, we'll always let you know on our website if we're going to make any changes, and we don't expect the thresholds to change very often.
The way we use BB is always changing is because we are trying to keep up with all the draconian rules that VM keep imposing.
Omfg.......
what a **** service I'm off :D
<<<<<<<<
---------- Post added at 03:44 ---------- Previous post was at 03:35 ----------
No, you misunderstand me. By having different STM thresholds on different packages they are trying to force upgrades not because you want a faster connection but because of the STM free capacity of the connection.
I'm not looking for a maximum connection 24/7, but if STM comes in round the clock as TraxData has hinted then you're not going to see maximum connection for more than about 30 minutes a day...
Jesus why are we putting up with these muppets at vm?
We're all getting ripped left, right and centre yet we continue paying for ever decreasing quality broadband.
When does all this come into affect btw?
I'm on on 4 meg bb but that's like £25 p/m and if this stm comes in where I can only download 300mb between 4pm and 9 pm I'm defiantly leaving.
***** service.
---------- Post added at 03:53 ---------- Previous post was at 03:44 ----------
I don't see myself as being better off under the new STM all they have done is extend it further, the existing STM was quite clear to everyone, the peak hours were designated as 4-9 pm, and you knew your allowance. Outside of those hours your'e free to download as much or as little as you like. The new STM kicks in at 10am and thereafter you will need a calculator to anticipate what you are able to download without triggering STM. e.g I like to watch streaming sports in a window on the desktop while I'm working on saturday afternoons a football game may take 700MB it may take 1GB, it's impossible to say or predict, if the game goes into extra time it's quite possible that I will be STM'd. I envisage problems when this goes national, this is NOT broadband.
I agree.
---------- Post added at 03:55 ---------- Previous post was at 03:53 ----------
An even better idea, print some big anti-phorm posters & stick them to VM's vans that you see left unattended, I have been tempted a few times as there are quite a few VM employees with vans live near me
Flmao i might do this ::D
---------- Post added at 04:04 ---------- Previous post was at 03:55 ----------
Agreed.
They have been playing that game ever since Ntl was created. :mad:
when vm hits the ****, like where every single person's speed is capped ridiculacly low, they will just re-brand like what ntl did when they changed to vm and start all over again if they've (hopefully not) got any customers left :D.
---------- Post added at 04:10 ---------- Previous post was at 04:04 ----------
I know, I just dont care .... have to log off now because VM have designated this as my "quality time" ... omigosh it's almost 3 pm and I can download whatever I like for the next hour ... thank you master! would it be OK if I have my tea at say around 7.pm & then may I download a few more MB's at your pleasure sir before I go to bed at 9 pm sir .... you get the picture, they're taking the you know what, we rollover or we die, or we move to Sweeden ... nice broadband, shame about the music ... ;)
-
This guy says the truth.
Let's all leave vm?
I'm up for it :D
chamelion
21-04-2008, 15:07
quick question for you guys - does this mean they no longer are doing the "we'll cap you for 5 hours from the time STM is applied" as it was before? before if you downloaded 3gb on XL at 8pm, you'd be stuck with 5mbit until 2am?
from the looks of it this means that you can download full throttle earlier in the evening, and even if you do get capped you're "free" again at 9pm?
(doesn't mean i support this new STM, i'm a heavy downloader all the time!)
---------- Post added at 15:07 ---------- Previous post was at 14:58 ----------
i think i've answered my own question. it's 3:07pm and my speed is still at 5mbit. i'm guessing this means that i'm going to be capped until 9pm? or will it be until 5:30pm which is 5 hours after i had STM first applied?
awesometeeth
21-04-2008, 21:28
yep gonna drop down to the basic speed and basic channels now
broadbandbug
22-04-2008, 11:57
Be must be loving all this.
No amount of advertising could possibly generate so much interest in Be's products as VM's antics with Phorm, STM and the rest have done. And from Be's point of view it's ALL FREE.
The only drawback is, Be is owned by O2 and O2 is a subsidiary of BT. :shocked: (I believe, correct me if I am wrong.)
Oh well, seems you can't win them all. :(
O2 is part of Telefonica not BT
cheets64
22-04-2008, 12:38
Gutted, just been capped this morning, wonder what the hell was going on and found out about the trails with the STM ****, going to ring up and cancel and go onto the free BT broadband my dad gets.
O2 is part of Telefonica not BT
So what changed then from when O2 was originally BT Cellnet??
Another example of a merger?
So what changed then from when O2 was originally BT Cellnet??
Another example of a merger?
Nope.
More one of BT selling off the family silver to pay inflated dividends (and ridiculous bonuses to their executives).
Ffi: Telefónica O2 on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telef%C3%B3nica_O2)
Hi mojo, Ive been thinking the same way, also I looked on this site and I'm only 0.25mile from the exchange, if you do go for it keep us posted, cheers.:tu:
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/checker2.php
First time ive seen this site and it says im 300 metres from exchange and gives me a google maps pin. so i click it. The pin is in someones house :-/, i scrolled around and saw trees a school, roads, more houses and no exchange :(
unless a exchange is no bigger than a ntl box......i thought it was a proper mini person sized bulding.
Also now that nintendo/bbc have made it possible for my kids to watch iplayer on their wii has it come to me having to tell my kids no cbbc on iplayer or daddy will have no bandwidth for when he gets in from work :( (im paying 37.00 for them to tell me when its ok to use my connection :( )
TraxData
23-04-2008, 14:24
These New STM Rules Are Now *Confirmed* To Go Live (All Regions) After The Trials End.
These New STM Rules Are Now *Confirmed* To Go Live (All Regions) After The Trials End.
By whom, and do we have a link, please?
TraxData
23-04-2008, 14:27
By whom, and do we have a link, please?
My own sources.
Also http://abcde.co.uk/virginmedia/stm.html and you know how good annies sources are.
Get ready for the new STM folks.
So as usual you have no official source and posting hearsay and rubbsih again
TraxData
23-04-2008, 17:20
So as usual you have no official source and posting hearsay and rubbsih again
Hey..your back =)
Not hearsay or rubbish, posting sources gets people fired..but believe what you want, annie has never been wrong either with her sources :)
Never gone away :0)
Just waiting for you to publish you book of gossip and rumours. Reckon you'll make a fortune
TraxData
23-04-2008, 17:29
Suggest you go to annies site and ask about her respectability and reliability with her sources, you'll soon find she is right as am i, but whatever go back to dw :)
Don't need to... Guess your trying to take some of the pressure of yourself.. By the way what was your job as a Virgin Media employee or were you a contractor?
Does any of this really matter seems like trolling to me. If you guys are having fun then go do it on your on thread.
For the record I believe TraxData im pretty sure if he was a known liar with 1000+ posts he'd have been banned by now. btw its "off" not "of" (the second of)
Zanny returns to his world of carm and peace.
Robbie G
23-04-2008, 19:43
Don't need to... Guess your trying to take some of the pressure of yourself.. By the way what was your job as a Virgin Media employee or were you a contractor?
Gah.
Why don't you go away.
So what your saying is as long as someone comes on here and posts some negative comment about Virgin Media they are welcome. Anyone who does post can post anything and not be asked to verify it or have their source questioned. Good reasoned debate then with only one side presented
Chrysalis
24-04-2008, 14:57
usual stuff when it comes to large companies, someone leaks info. It gets discredited because they have no known proper source, the person discrediting them says this knowing full well the source cannot be revealed.
Andrewcrawford23
24-04-2008, 15:22
So what your saying is as long as someone comes on here and posts some negative comment about Virgin Media they are welcome. Anyone who does post can post anything and not be asked to verify it or have their source questioned. Good reasoned debate then with only one side presented
DO you really think a virgin emdia staff is goign to come out and say it? they woudl be fired within seconds, the way teh information gets otu is people know staff and they disclsoe it to them because they dnt liek what is happening. I havea source within virgin media but i cant disclsoe who or what department because they coudl be fired within minutes for givign otu commerical senstive information as they put it, so because i cant give you that information you would call me a liar to? because that the last thing i am if anything i am to honest at times
I've always been a fairly light user (~1G/day) who was able to do most of my downloading during off-peak times as I thought it was helping to spread the load.
From what VM are now saying with STM I don't need to do that, I just need to ensure I keep under the limits. So, that's what I'm likely to do. I'll install some monitoring software and use 99% of the STM capacity as much as I can.
That will probably mean me downloading more than 5 times what I normally do, but seeing as VM feel that's what I'm entitled too I feel I should be getting what I pay for.
frogstamper
24-04-2008, 16:06
I've always been a fairly light user (~1G/day) who was able to do most of my downloading during off-peak times as I thought it was helping to spread the load.
From what VM are now saying with STM I don't need to do that, I just need to ensure I keep under the limits. So, that's what I'm likely to do. I'll install some monitoring software and use 99% of the STM capacity as much as I can.
That will probably mean me downloading more than 5 times what I normally do, but seeing as VM feel that's what I'm entitled too I feel I should be getting what I pay for.
I seem to be in the same boat Chicken, as you say it does make you think if your going to give me a quota on my "unlimited" service, Ill damm well use it.
AbyssUnderground
24-04-2008, 16:21
I am a heavy user. I admit it. This month I think I've probably done about 250GB so far. I will not change my browsing or downloading habbits because of some stupid traffic management. If I am downloading huge amounts I do it anyway but I restrict the speed myself when STM'ed as to not affect browsing speeds. When STM finishes I ramp it back up to full speed. If nobody is using the connection I simply let it run at full speed.
I pay for 4Mbps unlimited, I intend to use it. Sometimes I download crap just because I can to annoy Virgin. It works both ways, annoy me, and I'll annoy you back. Its always been like that with me. Mock me all you like, I won't change.
So what your saying is as long as someone comes on here and posts some negative comment about Virgin Media they are welcome. Anyone who does post can post anything and not be asked to verify it or have their source questioned. Good reasoned debate then with only one side presented
I don't know you.You have hardly ever posted here.I know TraxData and he has given accurate info in the past.So I trust him and his sources.
Plus many a time I've defended VM/NTL from irate users because I think they are being unfair/unrealistic.However they don't always get everything right.In fact I've read some horrific stories of just how bad it can get especially with the billing,debt collecting and general poor customer service.
So until you have made any useful or helpful posts or actually produced any support for your belief I suggest that you won't get much support for your attacks on TraxData.
In fact I'm left wondering as to what your angle is in attacking TraxData and who you might actually be.
Mick Fisher
24-04-2008, 21:45
I don't know you.You have hardly ever posted here.I know TraxData and he has given accurate info in the past.So I trust him and his sources.
Plus many a time I've defended VM/NTL from irate users because I think they are being unfair/unrealistic.However they don't always get everything right.In fact I've read some horrific stories of just how bad it can get especially with the billing,debt collecting and general poor customer service.
So until you have made any useful or helpful posts or actually produced any support for your belief I suggest that you won't get much support for your attacks on TraxData.
In fact I'm left wondering as to what your angle is in attacking TraxData and who you might actually be.
Good post :tu:
About sums up the way I feel too.
Berealwith
24-04-2008, 21:53
I am a heavy user. I admit it. This month I think I've probably done about 250GB so far. I will not change my browsing or downloading habbits because of some stupid traffic management. If I am downloading huge amounts I do it anyway but I restrict the speed myself when STM'ed as to not affect browsing speeds. When STM finishes I ramp it back up to full speed. If nobody is using the connection I simply let it run at full speed.
I pay for 4Mbps unlimited, I intend to use it. Sometimes I download crap just because I can to annoy Virgin. It works both ways, annoy me, and I'll annoy you back. Its always been like that with me. Mock me all you like, I won't change.
I must say i am cheesed off too and i load up my d/l newsgroups with 40gig of linux stuff every day after 9.00pm. I was told till your UBR falls over or gets enough complaints it wont get the upgrade and i have been waiting months only to find out it has been put back to september and is running STM trials....what chance do i have. Lets load it up 40gig every night
VM have treated me with contempt, like I am some sort of network parasite. I'm not some crack-addled leach and I deserve to be treated better. The person that did this (implemented a new STM without telling Customer Services) is contemptuous of me and the support teams. I know they don't care for my opinion so I'm taking my XL broadband, XL TV and 2 phone lines to someone who cares to treat me with enough respect to tell me when they change my contract. I'm disgusted, not at the changes but that they didn't care enough to inform me or their own colleagues , it is nothing but contempt.
To be clear for the terminally VM supporting, I don't care that they changed the STM rules, I care that they didn't tell me or the customer services team. So it is fair to guess that in future they will change things without telling me and I'm not prepared to risk what craziness they might come up with.
P.S. I don't often do more than 3 gig in a day.
They didn't tell you because they still want to be thought of as the Unlimited ISP. they still want people to believe that you can download as much as you want and they won't care or do anything about it if you dare to.
@ mocara
Thanks for letting us know -- please don't forget to drop a line to:
Chief Executive Officer
Virgin Media Investment Holdings Ltd.
NTL House
Bartley Wood Business Park
Hook
Hampshire
RG27 9UP
If anything will help change things, it'll be the CEO hearing how we feel.
:tu:
Mick Fisher
29-04-2008, 21:53
VM have treated me with contempt, like I am some sort of network parasite. I'm not some crack-addled leach and I deserve to be treated better. The person that did this (implemented a new STM without telling Customer Services) is contemptuous of me and the support teams. I know they don't care for my opinion so I'm taking my XL broadband, XL TV and 2 phone lines to someone who cares to treat me with enough respect to tell me when they change my contract. I'm disgusted, not at the changes but that they didn't care enough to inform me or their own colleagues , it is nothing but contempt.
To be clear for the terminally VM supporting, I don't care that they changed the STM rules, I care that they didn't tell me or the customer services team. So it is fair to guess that in future they will change things without telling me and I'm not prepared to risk what craziness they might come up with.
P.S. I don't often do more than 3 gig in a day.
:clap::clap::clap:
Well said and well done.
I am sure you will find new TV, BB and Telephone services from Companies who, at least, attempt to further the impression of valuing your custom more than the, as quite aptly stated by yourself, contemptuous attitude of VM.
I can easily think of replacements for TV and BB. Telco is not so easy though. BT and Talk Talk seem to be out of the question so what else is left? I guess it's got to be a BT line but maybe someone else can take over the actual mechanics of the operation?
Don't need to... Guess your trying to take some of the pressure of yourself.. By the way what was your job as a Virgin Media employee or were you a contractor?
With regard to annie's site, you do know , that various people in internal communications, incl one of the blogs on the group internet have linked to that website to provide people information...Yes its not official, but its tends to be right 99% of the time..
Look you may not like what is being said, but just time after time saying your wrong & incorrect & not backing up your argument, dilutes your point each time to the wider audience & doesn't portray yourself in a good manner.
No I didn't but rest aussured I will do.
I know Annie's site well and yes it is well respected and very knowlegable and I will acknowledge it is very good.
However my gripe is not with Annie and long may the site remain, but with Trax who releases information that he may have been told in confidence whether its right or wrong and then sits back knowing that people will try to work out who has told him and then their job gets put on the line. Trax has worked for Virgin Media either as a contractor or employee and obviously wishes to cause as much trouble as he can without thinking about potential consequences for those who have kept him informed
The way VM are going I'd be surprised if there's any employee's left at the end of the year.
No I didn't but rest aussured I will do.
I know Annie's site well and yes it is well respected and very knowlegable and I will acknowledge it is very good.
However my gripe is not with Annie and long may the site remain, but with Trax who releases information that he may have been told in confidence whether its right or wrong and then sits back knowing that people will try to work out who has told him and then their job gets put on the line. Trax has worked for Virgin Media either as a contractor or employee and obviously wishes to cause as much trouble as he can without thinking about potential consequences for those who have kept him informed
Not once has that come across in any of the posts i have read of yours, if your are more articulate & explain your reasons, as you have done there, then that argument & point stands up whole lot more than previous postings by yourself.
TraxData
30-04-2008, 00:10
No I didn't but rest aussured I will do.
I know Annie's site well and yes it is well respected and very knowlegable and I will acknowledge it is very good.
However my gripe is not with Annie and long may the site remain, but with Trax who releases information that he may have been told in confidence whether its right or wrong and then sits back knowing that people will try to work out who has told him and then their job gets put on the line. Trax has worked for Virgin Media either as a contractor or employee and obviously wishes to cause as much trouble as he can without thinking about potential consequences for those who have kept him informed
On the contrary i post what im allowed to post, i dont give too much info, i wont give any names out, i wont give technical info out nor will i mention where or how i came about the info, but i've never been wrong yet and that proves a point in my opinion.
As i have said countless times before, one couldnt care less if people dont believe what i say, that's their personal choice, there is certain people on here who get a joy out of trying to gang up on me..but they are also members of a certain illegal site so i usually just ignore them.
You dont know me, you dont know my contacts...and i think you'll find out im one of the people who keep people in their jobs rather than on the line...i've noticed a few times info has been leaked on here by others and names have come up...but not from me.
Look at the logic. You are posting details known to a small group of people. It wouldn't take long to find out who had leaked the info if they started looking in more detail.
Did you tell your ex colleague that you were going to post there info on here?
TraxData
30-04-2008, 13:21
Look at the logic. You are posting details known to a small group of people. It wouldn't take long to find out who had leaked the info if they started looking in more detail.
Did you tell your ex colleague that you were going to post there info on here?
Information leaks out, welcome to the world wide web.
Yes they know if im going to post info...and management does not say a thing.
Information just doesn't leak out. You have made a concious decision to release the information knowing it could potentially be investigated and someone could loose their job. How do you know management are not doing something about it?
broadbandbug
02-05-2008, 08:30
Information just doesn't leak out. You have made a concious decision to release the information knowing it could potentially be investigated and someone could loose their job. How do you know management are not doing something about it?
Believe me. VM have been trying to find out who Trax is and who he might be in touch with;)
TraxData
02-05-2008, 12:13
Believe me. VM have been trying to find out who Trax is and who he might be in touch with;)
Maybe, but they didnt find him/her ;)...or them ;)
Edit : Not that it matters of course, isaid i'd stop posting info, and i have :)
Believe me. VM have been trying to find out who Trax is and who he might be in touch with;)
It seems that Trax kicked VM in the balls and hurts. Feel the pain my friend...although you don't work for them :rolleyes:
PS Link for annie's site?
broadbandbug
02-05-2008, 13:02
It seems that Trax kicked VM in the balls and hurts. Feel the pain my friend...although you don't work for them :rolleyes:
PS Link for annie's site?
I work for an organisation that has close ties;)
Maybe, but they didnt find him/her ;)...or them ;)
Edit : Not that it matters of course, isaid i'd stop posting info, and i have :)
have you mentioned to him/er or them thatVM may be looking for them
I guess not !!
Chrysalis
04-05-2008, 20:45
funny VM are looking for trax :) this is proof what he said has some accuracy as they could easily make a official statement saying that he is talking rubbish but that hasnt happened.
Cobbydaler
04-05-2008, 21:01
It seems that Trax kicked VM in the balls and hurts. Feel the pain my friend...although you don't work for them :rolleyes:
PS Link for annie's site?
Link (http://abcde.co.uk/virginmedia/broadband-faq.html)
@ mocara
Thanks for letting us know -- please don't forget to drop a line to:
Chief Executive Officer
Virgin Media Investment Holdings Ltd.
NTL House
Bartley Wood Business Park
Hook
Hampshire
RG27 9UP
If anything will help change things, it'll be the CEO hearing how we feel.
:tu:
DO you actually think that a letter would get anywhere near the CEO. It won't even get to PA. It will be redirected to the CEOs Office in Manachester. Which is basically the standard complaints department but just delt with by more experanced staff.
---------- Post added at 21:21 ---------- Previous post was at 21:15 ----------
funny VM are looking for trax :) this is proof what he said has some accuracy as they could easily make a official statement saying that he is talking rubbish but that hasnt happened.
Umm I'm a little confused. How are VM looking for Trax. I thought they already know who he was. I'm sure i read on here that he'd had a spat with Alex Brown and they said they'd terminate his account etc.
A quote from Virgins site:
Ultra-reliable fibre optic broadband that starts from £4.50 a month - If you take our great value, flexible phone service. There are 3 options to choose from - up to 2Mb, 4Mb and the UK's fastest, 20Mb. All delivered by fibre optic cable. Plus there are no boring download limits and you get free internet security chucked in.
If that is not a breach of contract or false advertising I don't know what is.
DO you actually think that a letter would get anywhere near the CEO. It won't even get to PA. It will be redirected to the CEOs Office in Manachester. Which is basically the standard complaints department but just delt with by more experanced staff.
---------- Post added at 21:21 ---------- Previous post was at 21:15 ----------
Umm I'm a little confused. How are VM looking for Trax. I thought they already know who he was. I'm sure i read on here that he'd had a spat with Alex Brown and they said they'd terminate his account etc.
Not Trax.... maybe his source
DO you actually think that a letter would get anywhere near the CEO. It won't even get to PA. It will be redirected to the CEOs Office in Manachester. Which is basically the standard complaints department but just delt with by more experanced staff.
Yes, mate. That's why I posted that address here.
You see I'd found this post on one of the VM newsgroups a few weeks ago:
The only time anyone ever answered a complaint of mine was when I wrote
to this address
Chief Executive Officer
Virgin Media Investment Holdings Ltd.
NTL House
Bartley Wood Business Park
Hook
Hampshire
RG27 9UP
They responded very quickly and problem was resolved. I wrote loads of
other letters, to addresses I had been given and not once did I get a
response. I called and even used the online e-mail, nothing.
But hey, thanks for your constructive criticism and positive assistance.
Anyone wanting to contact VM's CEO can email him direct to his personal email:
neil.berkett@ntl.com
:)
Keep it polite and he will probably respond. He always has done to mine.
Ed.
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