View Full Version : Support- what support?
slingading
28-02-2008, 10:09
Last night my broadband went off and the "online" light on my V+ box started flashing downstairs. My first thought was to reboot both the V+ box and the cable modem, this didn't rectify the problem so I tried a couple more times. Eventually I phoned customer support, I'd like to add that this is my first call to them for quite some time, and it would appear I got put through to an Indian call centre.
To say I could not understand the chap (who sounded polite enough) is an understatement, but let me explain more. Language barriers aside, it seemed that we could sort of understand each other a little. I explained to the chap that all of a sudden my internet has gone and I cannot access any on demand content on the tv, though the tv is still working but the online light is flashing. I explained to him that I have tried powering down and rebooting both the V+ box and the cable modem 3 times with no success. I also informed him of the error code 1092 showing on the tv.
"I need to call out on engineer sir!", he told me. "I dont think you need to do that actually, as both boxes are on seperate cables from the outside box so I figure it is either a network problem or possibly something to do with the green box in the street"
"no sir I need to call out an engineer" he said again.
"Im afraid Im at work all the time and that is not an option at the moment, but regardless as I have already said the problem is obviously external from my property as my phone is working (I am on the phone to you now) and my tv is working"
"no sir I need to call out an engineer"
this went on for some considerable time at which point I felt like I was talking to a scripted robot. I eventually gave in and accepted an engineers appointment for Saturday morning, even though I knew full well it was nothing to do with anything inside my property. I asked the chap if he could arrange a reset from his end to see if that sorted it, he claimed he had done this but Im certain he was lieing.
Well this morning I get up and surprise surprise both the internet is now working and so is the V+ box, the light is no longer flashing!!!
Is this the kind of support I can expect as a paying customer?
If anybody from the management team at Virgin is reading this I'd like to say this - If you feel the need to outsource your support to another country, can you ensure at least these 2 criteria are met first please?
Firstly that they can speak the customers own language, its always going to be of considerable help!
Secondly that they might at least check to see if there has been an outage in the area first, and that they have at least some understanding of the product you are supplying?
I understand that moving your support to a impoverished country like India might provide better salarys for the board and bigger private yacht's and fearrari's but how much money is it wasting by needlessly sending out engineers for unneeded visits?
Thank god I dont work for these muppets :td:
webcrawler2050
28-02-2008, 10:25
Personally - it sounds like you was being awkward for the sake of it
"Im afraid Im at work all the time and that is not an option at the moment, but regardless as I have already said the problem is obviously external from my property as my phone is working (I am on the phone to you now) and my tv is working"
I would say the reason for the engineer is to maybe check the box at the end of your street, so I would say his thinking is right. Personally, I wouldn't say this is a bad experience with Virgin, I think it was just you being awkward with the Agent, yes they are in Where ever the chuff they are, I expect there are plans to bring to the UK.
Sounds about right for support atm only thing you missed off is the rip off rate they charge you to tell them there services arent working :).
lostandconfused
28-02-2008, 10:28
Sounds about right for support atm only thing you missed off is the rip off rate they charge you to tell them there services arent working :).
Which in this case would have been refunded as a tech needed to be sent:)
I agree with the OP.
I have had similar problems with a 'robot' who was insisting on sending out an engineer even though I explained to him an engineer had been out 2 days previously.
After a lot of explaining that 'Yes I have rebooted, Yes I have connected without the router, Yes I did all of these things last time' he then told me he had done something 'But couldn't explain what) and it is all OK.
I told him not to hang up but to monitor a download from the place he had recommended and after monitoring it he had to admit it wasn't sorted.
This is not racist so do not flame for for this but the language barrier is a significant problem. I have dealt with UK call centres who just read from a script and it is bad enough but add a language problem as well and it is 10 times worse.
My company is just on the verge of outsourcing its call centre to India and I think that this will cause the company to go under and I will be looking for a new job soon.
Outsourcing might save money on paper but when we start losing customers hand over fist then they will realise what a big mistake this is.
No need to book a tech for a online light flashing. Online flashing is a network or account issue.
slingading
28-02-2008, 14:15
Personally - it sounds like you was being awkward for the sake of it
Sorry, run that one by me again :erm:
How on earth am I being awkward when I know full well that the problem does not lie inside my house and I have tried to explain that? As it turns out I have been proved correct, yet the chap at the other end of the phone is "supposedly" meant to know more about the services he is supporting than me! :rolleyes: I could get my 8 year old neice to read from a script but she knows bugger all about cable, pretty much like the person I spoke to last night I would guess.
Whatever, it still doesn't get away from the fact that the support I have experienced was nothing short of **** :td:
On a side note, why the defense of Virgin? Are you an employee or just a fan? :confused:
lostandconfused
28-02-2008, 14:18
snip
why the defense of Virgin? Are you an employee or just a fan? :confused:
Do you need to be an employee or a 'fan' to try to provide a balanced argument then?
As a side note, even if it were an issue with the cab they would still need to book a tech as when they have done their adjustments they would need to check that the service has been restored.
glad its sorted now though
webcrawler2050
28-02-2008, 14:23
No I am not an employye - my point being - you say you want them to fix but you come up with " I am not in ever" So how in the heck they are suppost to fix it, gawd only knows.
I see this all to often in tech support - the user moans about a rubbish service, when it's the user causing it!
slingading
28-02-2008, 14:46
No I am not an employye - my point being - you say you want them to fix but you come up with " I am not in ever" So how in the heck they are suppost to fix it, gawd only knows.
I see this all to often in tech support - the user moans about a rubbish service, when it's the user causing it!
I actually said that it was not an option at the moment for an engineer to come round, but knowing that one was not required to access my property that is immaterial. Neither have I moaned about a rubbish service, I have moaned about the poor support - there is a difference ;)
Sorry if I have offended any of you by my post, I should have known better than to make a post in a cable forum that would immediately get hit on by the Virgin love boys :rolleyes:
webcrawler2050
28-02-2008, 14:48
Pstt "Virgin Love Boys"
Doesnt matter how you phrase it, point of the fact is, you was adament it was past your houses fault. So why should they need to bother you, when you think about it, they probably only want to check things, say I am just going to check the box, come back, saying its fixed.
You've gotta remember that most Call centre operators are purely reading from a reactive script and they probably don't even know what a STB or CM actually looks like. No point in arguing as they'll only say what the script tells them to say. Ask for a supervisor if you can't get anywhere as most of the time they are at least technically appraised as to what they are supporting.
Kymmy
webcrawler2050
28-02-2008, 14:52
You've gotta remember that most Call centre operators are purely reading from a reactive script and they probably don't even know what a STB or CM actually looks like. No point in arguing as they'll only say what the script tells them to say. Ask for a supervisor if you can't get anywhere as most of the time they are at least technically appraised as to what they are supporting.
Kymmy
Wrong! lol
I work in a support desk / call centre and I dont have a script to read from. Infact most of my jobs have been this typeand Ive never ever had a script. Its all knowledge - :mad:
I have to say I've experienced similar issues surrounding language and being understood.
It's not enough to be able to speak English (and some of the support staff I would argue don't unless I speak particularly slowly) but you also need to understand the culture of people you're talking to.
It's so refreshing to speak even to a call centre in Scotland or Yorkshire because you can actually casually talk through any problems with the person on the other end without struggling to make yourself understood, or to understand what is being said.
I had a problem last year where my internet service was cancelled due to my direct debit not being paid properly. Though it took 5 calls to ascertain this was the cause.
Virgin's billing system you need separate direct debits for internet bill and your phone/tv bill. I had rang Virgin to update my billing details the previous month but they had only updated one of the billing accounts.
So anyway ringing back the internet support line and paying for the privilege of I was told my account was suspended but it looks ok, ring accounts. Ringing accounts they see payments fine it must be technical ring Bangalore back, etc it's a nightmare. The merry go round continued for 5 calls in total.
Eventually I got through to a Scottish call centre and it was resolved in about 10 minutes.
All that was required was problem ownership, someone who not just spoke my language but was actually fluent in it.
I find it frankly ridiculous that technical support is outsourced to a somewhat incompetent call-centre (and I say incompetent only based upon my own experience). If the alternative is to pay more for our services to be UK based then fine. But don't charge us a fee only to pay some call centre sweat shop in Turkmenistan or whatever that can't serve us properly.
lostandconfused
28-02-2008, 15:10
Faults are supposed to work from a script (most dont) Tech support dont have a script at all
webcrawler2050
28-02-2008, 15:14
I dont!
slingading
28-02-2008, 15:33
I want to say that if my post has a slight racist tone then please excuse me, it certainly isnt meant to and Im certainly not!
I just dont appreciate that I recruit the services of a UK company that were speaking plain English when they wanted my custom but now I have to spell out my words to someone when I have a problem. It just gets me soooo mad! :mad:
Anyway my problem is as I said now sorted so I'll leave this as my last reply but please please please Virgin, bring your call centre's back to the UK, surely your losing business because of this?!? :confused: If I ever have to go through that performance again, you will definitely lose mine :(
fireman328
28-02-2008, 16:06
I have had a very bad experience today with a call centre from the sub continent. I am off net as the block of flats I live in are not served by VM, something about conditions of lease. So I have VIRGIN ADSL via BT and it works reasonably well.
I pay for my service using a debit card which is debited once a month. About a week or so I was sent an e-mail, from an Allison Driscoll <credit@virgin.net> reminding me that my debit card was due to expire, I duly tried to contact the above by e-mail on numerous times to supply her with the info, no reply has arrived from her.
I therefore tried again today by contacting VM call centre and was put on hold, connection dropped, and then answered by a voice which did not appear to have English as their native language. This person did not appear to understand that all I wanted to do was find a way of giving money to VM. After putting me on hold six times I was transfered to a call centre, which appeared to be in Yorkshire and within 5 minutes I had a CS on the line, he pulled up my account and the transaction was complete.
I shall monitor my account very carefully to ensure I do not pay any premium rate calls.
What a shambles
I want to say that if my post has a slight racist tone then please excuse me, it certainly isnt meant to and Im certainly not!
I just dont appreciate that I recruit the services of a UK company that were speaking plain English when they wanted my custom but now I have to spell out my words to someone when I have a problem. It just gets me soooo mad! :mad:
Anyway my problem is as I said now sorted so I'll leave this as my last reply but please please please Virgin, bring your call centre's back to the UK, surely your losing business because of this?!? :confused: If I ever have to go through that performance again, you will definitely lose mine :(
I can only speak personally but when my contract expires in May they will be losing me over this specific issue.
Sometimes I thik VM can't win. Your complaining because they wanted to send a tech to fix your problem. They might not have know at the time you called that there was a area problem. I'm sure you would be complaining if they hadn't offered a tech
webcrawler2050
28-02-2008, 19:16
Exatamundo!
It's like most things, moan for the sake of moaning.
Anywho - Personally, running tech support costs £1000's you think if theres 40 staff - thats roughly £1400 each thats £56k just in staff. Then theres, IT, Desks, Building, Internal tools, phone lines, phone system.
Really pretty darn exspensive!
I always think it's a shame when call centre staff get slagged off. Y'know, you're likely to be in a bad mood when you call them because you have a connection problem, so the relationship between customer and support can start off on the back foot.
Remember, the person you are speaking to isn't paid the earth and isn't the fat-cigar-smoking, yacht-owning-exec that seems to be in the imagination of many irate customers. Nope, they are people like you and me trying to earn a crust in an honest way; English may not be their first language and that in itself shows that they work hard.
C'mon, give 'em a break. They aren't trying to make things awkward; they are trying to help you.
To all call centre staff everywhere: Thanks for putting up with us! :clap:
I always think it's a shame when call centre staff get slagged off. Y'know, you're likely to be in a bad mood when you call them because you have a connection problem, so the relationship between customer and support can start off on the back foot.
Remember, the person you are speaking to isn't paid the earth and isn't the fat-cigar-smoking, yacht-owning-exec that seems to be in the imagination of many irate customers. Nope, they are people like you and me trying to earn a crust in an honest way; English may not be their first language and that in itself shows that they work hard.
C'mon, give 'em a break. They aren't trying to make things awkward; they are trying to help you.
To all call centre staff everywhere: Thanks for putting up with us! :clap:
Thing is you want service. When you have to struggle to make yourself understood, when you struggle to understand what is being told to you, when the person speaking to you doesn't have the power to actually help you in most cases and worst of all you're being charged a per minute rate for this then you are probably not being happy.
You're right there's no need to take it out on the customer services representative you're speaking to. That would be pointless.
But you as a customer deserve better than to have your service outsources to Turkmenistan or wherever offers the cheapest call centre that day. THat isn't the fault of the Turkmen, or Bangalorean you're speaking to, it's the fault of the company you have your service provided by.
The solution in my case is to take your custom to a company that offers better (i.e. localised, fluent, literate and empowered) customer support. And one that doesn't charge you for the privilege. Virgin have opted to cut costs at the expense of customer service. Nothing wrong with that, but it's a determinant factor for me and no doubt many others in picking which service provider gets my ££'s.
Any business can offer incompetent/poor customer service. Virgin do. And their business judging from the most recent statistics is going down the toilet somewhat because of it.
pajero64
29-02-2008, 21:27
After hearing on a forum of people getting the 20mb broadband service fot £28 (I am paying £25 for the 4MB service and £58 altogether for TV,Broadband and phone) I phoned customer service to try and arrange a better package I spoke to one of the operators abroad but could understand most of what she said, anyway she said she could give me the 20MB service and all 3 for £57 which I was quite happy with, Today I received a letter to welcome me to Virgin broadband and that a engineer would shortly arrive with a modem ,set-up disc etc: and giving me a PIN number to give the engineer, they gave me a number to call if anything was incorrect so I phoned to explain I was a existing customer already on broadband, I spoke to somebody who I could not understand at all, I am still om 4MB and dont know if a engineer is coming or not or if I am going to get the 20MB service promised and I certainly dont want to call somebody in india or where ever to find out so I guess I will just have to wait and see what happens and what is on my next bill.
Well, it seems our respective experiences of VM Customer Services differ.
I have spoken to people who are patient, polite and helpful and who have subsequently arranged for my call costs to be refunded. Not only that, I have had follow up calls to check my problems were resolved and been given a free month for my inconvenience. That's pretty good if you ask me.
Besides, it's not as if I need to speak to CS on a regular basis so if the service is outsourced and it keeps my subscription down, I'm happy. Perhaps I'm going soft but I feel charitable toward people who probably work long hours for low pay and no doubt put up with a lot of abuse.
VM deliver my broadband through the most efficient technology and that is the important thing to me; I can live with the little extra effort it might need to get issues resolved because this is such an infrequent occurrence.
Leaving VM because CS don't have the vocal or verbal skills of Tom Baker, is imho like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
lostandconfused
01-03-2008, 07:51
Any business can offer incompetent/poor customer service. Virgin do. And their business judging from the most recent statistics is going down the toilet somewhat because of it.
where did you get that from? The most recent statistics have been the best since the re-brand. Customers Up, Churn down etc They did make more of a loss than last quarter but that was expected because of the cost of upgrading all the UBR's for 50mb launch
I recently rang CS about my TV service. The lady in India was very fluent and sorted the problem in 5 minutes. However, I know that with broadband the issues tend to be more technical and I have no experience of VM broadband support. However, Dell's technical help is in India and is highly efficient, so it's not true that sub-continent = sub-standard. I had a hard disk problem diagnosed over the 'phone, the culprit collected and returned, all within a week. Which UK broadband supplier has the best technical help then? I'm interested to hear, as I might change my ADSL line from BT one of these days. Looking forward to 10Mb soon, so I'll stick with VM cable for my second line. I find VM very good with speeds never below 3.5Mb and virtually no downtime.
Mick Fisher
01-03-2008, 09:03
I recently rang CS about my TV service. The lady in India was very fluent and sorted the problem in 5 minutes. However, I know that with broadband the issues tend to be more technical and I have no experience of VM broadband support. However, Dell's technical help is in India and is highly efficient, so it's not true that sub-continent = sub-standard. I had a hard disk problem diagnosed over the 'phone, the culprit collected and returned, all within a week. Which UK broadband supplier has the best technical help then? I'm interested to hear, as I might change my ADSL line from BT one of these days. Looking forward to 10Mb soon, so I'll stick with VM cable for my second line. I find VM very good with speeds never below 3.5Mb and virtually no downtime.
I've only phoned them once but I was impressed by Be's TS. It is offshored to somewhere in Central Europe but the agent I got spoke excellent English with only a slight accent. She was extremely knowlegable and it seemed nothing was to much trouble for her to resolve my issue, even being prepared to hold while I swapped out the Be modem for another that I had knocking about just to prove a point. Oh and it's a free call too. Damn BT, if only I had a decent phone line I would be gone from VM.
CrazyMonk
01-03-2008, 17:23
Dont even get me started on this... An engineer came out today, swapped out the router and checked everything. I still wasnt getting 20 MB speeds, and my area and UBR are no where near overload levels a friend next door gets 20 mb speeds consistently!
So he phones his friend who checks what plan i am on, they have mistakenly put me on the 4meg option. Ok tech tells me to phone support get it changed...
Ok so i tell him to hang around a second whilst i phone. I phone (routed to india... great :mad:) A guy comes on, ok i can understand him. But this guy insists i am on the 20 MB package and insists i get a tech around. I tell him i have a tech standing literally 2 ft away from me, the tech talks to him and he even tells the technician that a different technician is required :shocked:...
At this point both me and the tech are getting pretty ****ed, i just hang up. The technician leaves and appologises for the pathetic support on the phone...
Utterly stunned...
......the tech talks to him and he even tells the technician that a different technician is required :shocked:...
At this point both me and the tech are getting pretty ****ed, i just hang up. The technician leaves and appologises for the pathetic support on the phone...
Utterly stunned...
Not good. But I think I may have hung up and redialled to get a more informed person on the phone (keeping the tech handcuffed until the problem was resolved properly ;))
CrazyMonk
01-03-2008, 17:57
Not good. But I think I may have hung up and redialled to get a more informed person on the phone (keeping the tech handcuffed until the problem was resolved properly ;))
I was going to to that, but i was so frustrated i turned to the newsgroups.
Originally the guy on the newsgroup said he was not able to check account details, however after constant moans and the huge frustration i was in he noticed the notes updated by the tech that visited me.
The guy on the newsgroup spoke to higher management who confirmed i was capped at 4 meg (damn idiot on the phone). This problem has been rectified and the guy on the phone is being "dealt with". I am now recieving speeds of 10Mb, and the newsgroup tech has told me to wait a while as it can take up to 24 hours for my speeds to become fully useable..
So im a happy chappy and i remain a Phone Support hater!
I was going to to that, but i was so frustrated i turned to the newsgroups.
Originally the guy on the newsgroup said he was not able to check account details, however after constant moans and the huge frustration i was in he noticed the notes updated by the tech that visited me.
The guy on the newsgroup spoke to higher management who confirmed i was capped at 4 meg (damn idiot on the phone). This problem has been rectified and the guy on the phone is being "dealt with". I am now recieving speeds of 10Mb, and the newsgroup tech has told me to wait a while as it can take up to 24 hours for my speeds to become fully useable..
So im a happy chappy and i remain a Phone Support hater!
I guess there can be bad apples anywhere. Seems a bit unfair to tar all phone support with the same brush though; like I said, my experience was a bit different to yours. Glad you're sorted :)
techyguy4
01-03-2008, 21:09
You did great by informing the agent that both of the services are not working. But let me tell you that for checking the outage, we visit a web based system. Now for example if the fault has not been identified then it would not be there on the system. So although the agent can understand that it seems to be a network issue but just to be on the safer side, a tech was booked for you.
Another thing as far as script is concerned: we are using the script just for the informing about the call charges and some other stuff and this is as per the guidelines of ICSTIS.(payphone plus).
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