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Vlad_Dracul
10-12-2007, 18:07
As many will know, I am upwardly mobile and travel the length and breadth of the country doing my day to day work.

The other evening i was in a major city parked up. It was a very busy Friday night and all and sundry were out socialising.

Across the street from me were a line of perhaps 4 disabled parking bays. As i masticated my rather tired cured ham muffin, a flat back low loader drew alongside and a chap got out to check the cars parked in the bays. It appears he was from the traffic enforcement people. A fine body of men whom i respect enormously.

Anyway he gestured to his driver mate and he moved the truck alongside a car,lowered the gear,an uplifted someones motor. I can only speculate that it was not displaying the required permit.

As this was happening,a group of youngsters emerged from a nearby bar in a panic. Apparently their car was in the next bay and since it didnt have a badge either,they jumped in it and made a swift exit.

I can tell you it brought joy to my heart to see the miscreant punished. A rare thing in todays society. I did hope to further my enjoyment by waiting for the driver to return so that I could tell him where his car had gone.

Alas I had to content myself with what had already transpired for he/she was no-where to be seen despite a lengthy wait.

It occured to me how liberally such permits are given out and what widescale abuse there is of the system.

Checking below;
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/MotoringAndTransport/DG_4001061

it seems that the conditions for issue are quite clear and it would seem that for you to be a valid holder, one would expect that you would hardly be fit enough to exit the car.

And yet how many times do we see seemingly fit people parking cars with badges and walking away with no apparent sign of disability or distress?

Much of the abuse is caused by people who apply for badges in order to drive their old granny about. Of course this rarely happens and they then just use it to park their Chelsea tractor or Beemer somewhere nice and close to the shops/pub/theatre whatever.

I think i shall make it my new years resolution to report these miscreants as I see them as they do a dis-service to and discredit the genuine disabled.

dilli-theclaw
10-12-2007, 18:14
I am entitled to one, but I can exit a car just fine.

So when my missus and I pull up and we both get out how would you know what was wrong with me?

Bearing in mind I don't always use my stick if I'm in a familiar place I don't need to.

punky
10-12-2007, 18:17
This is a major issue at the moment in London. Basically disabled people get free parking in most or all of Greater London including Camden/Islington and Westminster, two notorious parking areas. They are being flogged in pubs for £20-£50 quid

Vlad_Dracul
10-12-2007, 18:18
It would be difficult and perhaps impolite of me to comment on your particular case without knowing the finer points.

Surely though ,the main reason for the scheme is to facilitate those who have mobility issues, i.e they cannot walk at all,need a wheelchair or can only walk a very short distance?

I could speculate that i could make a good case for having one myself and yet I hold down a permanent job and work over 40 hours a week.

dilli-theclaw
10-12-2007, 18:24
It would be difficult and perhaps impolite of me to comment on your particular case without knowing the finer points.

No answer then - fair enough.

Surely though ,the main reason for the scheme is to facilitate those who have mobility issues, i.e they cannot walk at all,need a wheelchair or can only walk a very short distance?

Yes indeed, although walking unaided should be added to that list.

I could speculate that i could make a good case for having one myself and yet I hold down a permanent job and work over 40 hours a week.

There is nothing stopping you applying for one, personally I have no use for one as I use my bus pass instead.

I'm not sure what working and the number of hours you do have anything to do with it though.

Stuart
10-12-2007, 18:26
And yet how many times do we see seemingly fit people parking cars with badges and walking away with no apparent sign of disability or distress?

Much of the abuse is caused by people who apply for badges in order to drive their old granny about. Of course this rarely happens and they then just use it to park their Chelsea tractor or Beemer somewhere nice and close to the shops/pub/theatre whatever.


Actually, they can't. Not legally anyhow. The badge is issued to the holder, and not the car. It is valid in any car the holder uses, but is only valid for that holder.

For example, my sister is registered disabled. You would not know it to look at her (she looks like any other woman her 30s, and shows no visible signs of disability, although she is disabled).

She has been issued a badge. She can't drive, but if she gets a lift from someone and has her badge, they can park in disabled bays. If she just gave her badge to someone else, it would not be valid.

Of course, that requires the enforcement officers to check though..

Vlad_Dracul
10-12-2007, 18:30
I was not suggesting that they could legally do it. Obviously a badge can be issued to someone who isnt the driver as long as the car is used for the purpose of carrying the "disabled" person. Its the same with the vehicle duty exemption for disabled persons.

dilli-theclaw
10-12-2007, 18:32
Right so how would YOU tell the difference, because you plan to report the people who aren't supposed to be using the badge.

Help!!!
10-12-2007, 18:40
I can't stand people who go out of their way to report something like that, fair enough the people who are paid to do it. And how can you judge if people are truly disabled or not, I have a friend she is registered disabled but by looking at here you would not be able to tell, and if some goody goody like you decided to report her and her car got towed thats just wrong.

Vlad_Dracul
10-12-2007, 18:42
Right so how would YOU tell the difference, because you plan to report the people who aren't supposed to be using the badge.
Its purely speculative of course but some cases of apparent abuse are surely worthy of further attention

I might raise an eyebrow if a person apparently has no difficulty driving/exiting/entering or walking away from such a vehicle without any kind of aid and observance of their movement suggests that they are moving in a normal efficient manner which,with due observance,might suggest that they could continue such movement for a reasonable time without undue hinderance.

There are plnety of people skivving their lives away on DLA. Lets be honest about it.

Of course there are genuine cases too.

dilli-theclaw
10-12-2007, 18:43
I don't have a problem with someone reporting it if they KNOW - I'm just confused as to how you'd know.

In my case as I said you couldn't tell by looking at me here in sunny Sandy, yes elsewhere you could as the stick is a give away.

I'm ludky in that I have a certificate of what's wrong with me issued by the council that I can present if I need to, but I doubt that everyone has that.

Vlad_Dracul
10-12-2007, 18:48
I can't stand people who go out of their way to report something like that, fair enough the people who are paid to do it. And how can you judge if people are truly disabled or not, I have a friend she is registered disabled but by looking at here you would not be able to tell, and if some goody goody like you decided to report her and her car got towed thats just wrong.


You appear to have misunderstood. It is highly unlikely that a traffic enforcement officer would take action on the basis of information or a conversation with a member of the public. He/she would have to satisfy himself that abuse had taken place. He might,for example,hang around for the driver to return and make further enquiries.

If for example, a lone teenager was seen using a car with a disabled badge and subsequent enquiries revealed that the badge could not have been legally used in such a way,then it is all to the good and frees up spaces which might otherwiuse be taken up by abusers,for REAL disabled people.

dilli-theclaw
10-12-2007, 18:49
Getting DLA is a lot harder than getting a disabled badge.

Anyway I digress, and you've answered my points.

I suspect it's time for me to leave this thread now as every time DLA is bought up I have nothing but guilt for claiming it at all.

mrmistoffelees
10-12-2007, 18:53
I have a very good friend who broke their neck and injured their back quite severley a few years ago by skiing down the wrong side of a cliff (accidentally) they are now entitled to a disabled badge. They drive a very large four wheel drive and when they park their car as they are entitled to they are quite often told to move their car buy members of the public as 'They don't look disabled'

As Jefferson says you cant always tell by looking at someone.

Vlad_Dracul
10-12-2007, 18:56
I don't have a problem with someone reporting it if they KNOW - I'm just confused as to how you'd know.

In my case as I said you couldn't tell by looking at me here in sunny Sandy, yes elsewhere you could as the stick is a give away.

I'm ludky in that I have a certificate of what's wrong with me issued by the council that I can present if I need to, but I doubt that everyone has that.

We appear to be on the same side on this debate. Surely you would support the detection,deterrence and punishement of abusers of the blue badge scheme?

I would add that use of a stick or other aid may not necessarily indicate a degree of disablement sufficient to satisfy the definition of disablement under the scheme.

---------- Post added at 17:56 ---------- Previous post was at 17:55 ----------

I have a very good friend who broke their neck and injured their back quite severley a few years ago by skiing down the wrong side of a cliff (accidentally) they are now entitled to a disabled badge. They drive a very large four wheel drive and when they park their car as they are entitled to they are quite often told to move their car buy members of the public as 'They don't look disabled'

As Jefferson says you cant always tell by looking at someone.

I wonder if you could say how is disablement is manifested,without going into personal detail of course?

Stuart
10-12-2007, 18:59
Getting DLA is a lot harder than getting a disabled badge.

Anyway I digress, and you've answered my points.

I suspect it's time for me to leave this thread now as every time DLA is bought up I have nothing but guilt for claiming it at all.

You are blind. Why feel guilty about claiming DLA?

Tali
10-12-2007, 19:05
I know you probably mean to, but "i could make a good case for having one myself and yet I hold down a permanent job and work over 40 hours a week" reads as though you are implying anyone who is disabled would not be able to hold down a full time job.

JediMaster
10-12-2007, 19:10
You are blind. Why feel guilty about claiming DLA?

Yeah Jefferson T why feel guilty about claiming DLA? Your entitled to claim it by the Govt.

I too get DLA & a Blue Badge. Like previously said in the thread I can walk out of a car/jeep unattended & walk into the store for a wheel chair (normally by the doors), so anyone looking on would think I am a young guy with a Badge for no reason.

What really miffs me off is the fact 1,000's of overwight people get the cards for stuffing their face. I cant help my disability (nor can Jefferson T) but being FAT is not a Disability IMHO

dilli-theclaw
10-12-2007, 19:10
You are blind. Why feel guilty about claiming DLA?Because of situations such as those described above, you cabn't see anything wrong with me - all the damage as it were is internal. So I get a lot of these kind of comments when I'm out and about. Makes me feel like I shouldn't be claiming.

Anyway enough about me.

Ramrod
10-12-2007, 19:32
What really miffs me off is the fact 1,000's of overwight people get the cards for stuffing their face. I cant help my disability (nor can Jefferson T) but being FAT is not a Disability IMHONo, but it can lead to disability......osteoarthritis of the knees, heart problems, etc.....

Nidge
10-12-2007, 19:48
What gets my back up is the amount of people who abuse these badges, I've been down Mansfield a few times and park just across the road from where the disabled drivers park, I've sat there and observed people getting in and out of their cars like spring chickens, I noticed one chap carrying a computer to his car, oe other chap was carrying some flat pack furniture, all these has a disabled badge in their windscreen. I thought the badges were for people who couldn't walk 20 yards without the aid of a stick or crutches??????

There are genuine people out there will genuine injuries who can't get a badge and a free car.

When my dad was alive his doctor had to beg him to have a disabled badge, my dad used to say nah there's people out there need them more than me, in the end his illness got the better of him so he relented and got a disabled badge.

Maggy
10-12-2007, 21:02
My sister has such a badge and truly needs it at the moment.Hopefully they will sort her breathing problems soon and she won't need it.

However she makes sure that she removes the badge when parked outside her house because these badges are highly sought after on the 'black market' and are worth some dosh apparently.So it could be that some folk are using badges they have not even been issued to.

I think reporting a car user who appears to be fit may be the best thing if only to stamp out this 'trade'.If you are mistaken no harm done but if someone is caught abusing the system or using a badge that has not been issued to them then it must be a good thing?:shrug:

Vlad_Dracul
10-12-2007, 22:09
Quite..this debate and my original post is about detecting and punishing abuse and not about whether an individual should or should not be entitled to a badge. That is for the relevant authority to decide and monitor. Unfortunately in this country,it is considered bad form or distastful to assist the authorities in the pursuit of wrongdoers. Anyone doing so is seen as mean,sly..a grass.

In other countries it is not so. They are happy to assist and inform and as a result,have a better quality of life whereby authorities feel empowered and assisted by the public, not resented by and or/obstructed by them.

TheDaddy
10-12-2007, 22:25
As Jefferson says you cant always tell by looking at someone.

No but if you could really be bothered a sneaky look at their tax disk might settle the issue in some cases ;)

Hom3r
10-12-2007, 22:39
I object to those who park in diabled bays and then run of to where ever they are going.

Alien
10-12-2007, 23:20
Because of situations such as those described above, you cabn't see anything wrong with me - all the damage as it were is internal. So I get a lot of these kind of comments when I'm out and about. Makes me feel like I shouldn't be claiming.
Don't feel bad just because of the ignorance of others, dude. Download Failed (1)

There's a guy my mum knows, who ended up giving up his guide dog because he was getting hassle from the chavs that hang around the local shops, because he "doesn't look blind". Apparently guide dogs are trained to just sit down & wait for their owner to resolve any confrontation. I can understand the dog being trained not to bite / bark / growl at someone, but I would have thought it would make more sense to train the dog to treat the confrontational person as just another obstacle to go around.

Chicken
10-12-2007, 23:50
We should probably start by reporting people using disabled parking spaces when they haven't even got a badge - I see lots of them whenever I go to the local supermarkets.

TurboGP
11-12-2007, 01:21
Alas I had to content myself with what had already transpired for he/she was no-where to be seen despite a lengthy wait.
I'd loved to have been there to witness some pompous do-gooder with a smirk on his face get a good kicking within an inch of his life for doing so.

Xaccers
11-12-2007, 03:54
Saw a rather nice old Maserati pull up into a disabled bay at Fleet services earlier in the year, badge on dashboard, and as he got out, two canes to help him walk.

You just cannot judge from looks if someone is justified in having a disabled badge, so consiquently I don't.

Now people who pull into parent/child bays at supermarkets then dash off alone into the store get my goad up.
After a particularly bad day at work if I saw any I'd call out "You've left your child in the car!" which often resulted in them looking embarrassed or confused. Even made one woman move her car. This was at a busy store so those bays were at a premium.

I do like what Ikea down near Lakeside does, after several warnings to move the car over the tanoy, they clamp or tow it, and the money from the fines goes to a local disabled charity.

haydnwalker
11-12-2007, 10:12
No but if you could really be bothered a sneaky look at their tax disk might settle the issue in some cases ;)

How exactly is this going to help? Looking for Tax Exempt vehicles? My partner though only in her 20's is entitled to a Blue badge due to severe mobility problems, though I am unable to get free tax on my car because it is not available soley for her transport as I have to use it daily for work.

Vlad_Dracul
11-12-2007, 10:38
I'd loved to have been there to witness some pompous do-gooder with a smirk on his face get a good kicking within an inch of his life for doing so.

Unlikely as I am a past master at delivering the trojan horse with complete sincerity and feigned concern.

JediMaster
11-12-2007, 14:55
I do like what Ikea down near Lakeside does, after several warnings to move the car over the tanoy, they clamp or tow it, and the money from the fines goes to a local disabled charity.

Great Idea

I've seen Monther & Child spaces used by Mum & kid aged 15ish (still Month & Child) but that is for another thread lol

TheDaddy
11-12-2007, 21:03
How exactly is this going to help? Looking for Tax Exempt vehicles? My partner though only in her 20's is entitled to a Blue badge due to severe mobility problems, though I am unable to get free tax on my car because it is not available soley for her transport as I have to use it daily for work.

As I said in some cases, if your that interested/got nothing better to do and suspect some one is swinging the lead a quick look to see if it's tax exempt could set you mind at rest, just because it doesn't apply in your case doesn't mean it doesn't apply in every case

Escapee
14-12-2007, 17:35
My sister has such a badge and truly needs it at the moment.Hopefully they will sort her breathing problems soon and she won't need it.

However she makes sure that she removes the badge when parked outside her house because these badges are highly sought after on the 'black market' and are worth some dosh apparently.So it could be that some folk are using badges they have not even been issued to.

I think reporting a car user who appears to be fit may be the best thing if only to stamp out this 'trade'.If you are mistaken no harm done but if someone is caught abusing the system or using a badge that has not been issued to them then it must be a good thing?:shrug:

You have hit the nail on the head with the first paragraph though, I have a friend who has a genuine need for a badge for his disability and his condition will never improve. On the other hand I know a younger person who had a condition that enabled them to obtain a badge, at the time the reason for the badge was valid but years later they still have the badge and openly admit (as well as family members) that their condition is now not an issue.

The other thing that used to annoy me was many years ago in my town double yellow lines were installed in a narrow street because parking was causing a dangerous obstruction, and this was something as a pedestrian visitor to town I agreed with. I was amazed to see that drivers with disabled badges were not fined for parking in the street, surely a Ford Escort with an orange badge causes exactly the same obstruction as a Ford Escort without the orange badge.

I do understand that the law was changed on parking at some point though, and disabled badge holders are now not allowed to park where they please.