View Full Version : Hacked & Cloned Modems Killed by VM
broadbandbug
24-10-2007, 18:11
Been looking at some of the 'other forums' and loads of people with hacked/cloned modems griping cos they have been bricked overnight by VM:D
Seems to be a two pronged attack with total bricking of some modems with some areas also being knocked off everytime they come up with a new MAC Address:)
Hopefully VM will be passing details of those that they can pinpoint to the law ASAP:p:
Good to hear that, where did you get that from?
broadbandbug
24-10-2007, 18:22
Good to hear that, where did you get that from?
Some of the more 'dodgy' forums that I am not sure are allowed to be mentioned on here..
MovedGoalPosts
24-10-2007, 18:35
It's great to know that these thieves might finally be getting shafted :tu:
Some of the more 'dodgy' forums that I am not sure are allowed to be mentioned on here..
correct :angel:
TraxData
24-10-2007, 19:20
It's great to know that these thieves might finally be getting shafted :tu:
correct :angel:
They aint exactly getting shafted though.
The attacks VM are sending out <edit Rob - a bit too much information>
Useful attack at first, bricked alot of modems in stoken on trent, but they need to be more vicious with them.
The other trail attack completely knocks them off though ;)
TraxaData, I am not sure that explaining how they appear to be doing it is a good idea.
TraxData
24-10-2007, 19:28
TraxaData, I am not sure that explaining how they appear to be doing it is a good idea.
Wont really matter, the cloners already know, and those that dont are getting completely bricked modems, and the VM attack trial detects if a new modem is hooked up and will just brick it straight away.
But if i get asked to remove the info, i will.
They aint exactly getting shafted though.
The attacks VM are sending out <edit Rob - a bit too much information>
Useful attack at first, bricked a lot of modems in stoke on Trent, but they need to be more vicious with them.
The other trail attack completely knocks them off though ;)
Yes but think of the modems that have been sold in clubs and pubs. Those users will have had no warning so there modems are bricked, Most of those users will not know how to <edit Rob - a bit too much information> so it is in my mind a perfect hit which will have bricked 100's and 100's of modems. Well done VIRGIN for turning all those modems into door stops :tu:
Anything and i mean anything that gets those thieving scumbags off the network is good in my eyes. So we should all be :clap::clap::clap::clap: them.
TraxData
24-10-2007, 19:30
Yes but think of the modems that have been sold in clubs and pubs. Those users will have had no warning so there modems are bricked, Most of those users will not know how to <edit Rob - a bit too much information> so it is in my mind a perfect hit which will have bricked 100's and 100's of modems. Well done VIRGIN for turning all those modems into door stops :tu:
Anything and i mean anything that gets those thieving scumbags of the network is good in my eyes.
Well yes the majority of cloned modems on the network do keep <edit Rob - a bit too much information> so they have managed to take a HUGE amount of cloners offline, and from what i hear b/w in stoke on trent has been massively cleared up (quite a few people i know are now getting 20mbit speeds instead of 1-7mbit)
Well yes the majority of cloned modems on the network do keep <edit Rob - a bit too much information> so they have managed to take a HUGE amount of cloners offline, and from what i hear b/w in stoke on trent has been massively cleared up (quite a few people i know are now getting 20mbit speeds instead of 1-7mbit)
That is so good to hear :)
Yes, very good news.....now, where's Mr Angry, I'm sure he'll be pleased. :)
Mr Angry
24-10-2007, 19:41
I've been busy...as one or two of the Mods on here will know.
Surey VM can identify the cloners?
I thought that you could use the coax timing to identify the house? Isn't that how they find faults?
Aha! Maybe they are using the timing to tally the property against the 'expected' customer with that mac ! This seems to be a new router feature:
http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/109/troubleshooting_cm_online.html
hahaha, that means they must be recording the LOCATION of the HOMES of the cloners!!! (even those in flats!) I'm wetting myself !
(I guess the 'bricking' is that the cloners are just screwing up trying to get back online, or it's a Cisco or Moto bug ;-) )
Fundamentally this is now formally HILARIOUS !
I guess they'll be passing everything they know to the Police, and taking them to court. The Police must, IIRC, seize the CM and all the PCs/laptops in the house as evidence until the trial and it can all be taken as collateral for any fines are paid - which would include VMs costs too.
Oh, and when I last read in my local about such a 'knock', they found a LOT of other interesting stuff in the house - both in the physical and virtual world - lots of dodgy stuff on the PC - can you say "Can you please provide licenses for that software?" :-)
Don't recall what happened in the end, but it was pretty clear that he wasn't going to be on Facebook for some time....hehe.
Damn, this is now like the time I was waiting for my area to be ADSL enabled! As soon as they roll this stuff out nationally, it sounds like a lot of service contention problems will be going away. Sweet!
MovedGoalPosts
24-10-2007, 19:48
Let's try not to even hint at how this particular system may be catching out the cloners, and more importantly the weaknesses if any in it. Just be grateful that there are some efforts being made. On that basis some posts are being edited.
Let's try not to even hint at how this particular system may be catching out the cloners, and more importantly the weaknesses if any in it. Just be grateful that there are some efforts being made. On that basis some posts are being edited.
Opps sorry:angel:
on in an hour!
24-10-2007, 19:56
this is great news.i was on a fault where the sub (20meg) was getting ridiculous speeds even at off-peak times,i checked the node and the speeds there replicated the speeds in the subs house.upon checking that node, it was found to have 45,yes 45 20meg users across the node,even though there were at most 36 drop cables (individual subscribers) connected legitimately.obviously legitimate users with cloned modems as well!! weve noticed now that the off-peak times are being battered rather than the peak times.are they timing their downloads to avoid the traffic management times??
(I guess the 'bricking' is that the cloners are just screwing up trying to get back online,
Bricking means exactly what it says. You turn the device into something that can only be used as a brick :)
TraxData
24-10-2007, 20:03
Bricking means exactly what it says. You turn the device into something that can only be used as a brick :)
Bye bye cloners. hehe
Bye bye cloners. hehe
m8
dont be posting stuff like that.
TraxData
24-10-2007, 20:06
m8
dont be posting stuff like that.
Yea, sorry, edited, can you edit yours to move my quote please ;)
Managed to find one of those 'other forums'. Whilst it's quite an entertaining read, it also is quite an eye-opener as to how widespread cloning appears to be. :shocked:
Well done Virgin Media! :clap: :clap:
Yea, sorry, edited, can you edit yours to move my quote please ;)
done
on in an hour!
24-10-2007, 20:12
spot on there sirius 10 of him and weve cracked it!!!!
still not much joy in my area though,either there arent many cloned modems or its just a crap UBR we are going thro,less than 1/2 of 1meg on a d/load at 12mins past 8!!!
Note must try harder only offline for 1 hr,up the free bb and tv,long live vm.
TraxData
24-10-2007, 20:36
Note must try harder only offline for 1 hr,up the free bb and tv,long live vm.
Ban him, he is from that certain site i was going on about yesterday :rolleyes:
dilli-theclaw
24-10-2007, 20:36
Note must try harder only offline for 1 hr,up the free bb and tv,long live vm.What?
Note must try harder only offline for 1 hr,up the free bb and tv,long live vm.
go away scumbag
TraxData
24-10-2007, 20:38
What?
He is saying the attack VM against his cloned modem only knocked him offline for an hour and now he is back with another one.
And saying long live free tv/bb.
Ban him. PleasE?
Hmmm
A lot of gloating people here
To set a couple of things straight
<Edit Rob: deleted>
The only people this is going to stop are the people who don't know anything, you might gloat about it stopping the cloners but really the only people it's going to get are <edit Rob: Deleted>.
~shrugs~
You may now return to your FUD.
go away scumbag
For the mods
This thread has now been posted on a certain website so expect plenty of Stupid posts shortly from the members there.
TraxData
24-10-2007, 20:40
Hmmm
A lot of gloating people here
To set a couple of things straight
<Edit Rob: deleted>
The only people this is going to stop are the people who don't know anything, you might gloat about it stopping the cloners but really the only people it's going to get are <edit Rob: Deleted>.
~shrugs~
You may now return to your FUD.
Yes, and as they do so, they get blacklisted again.
VM aint going anywhere, so go return to your FUD :rolleyes:
Hmmm
A lot of gloating people here
To set a couple of things straight
<Edit Rob: deleted>
The only people this is going to stop are the people who don't know anything, you might gloat about it stopping the cloners but really the only people it's going to get are <edit Rob: Deleted>.
~shrugs~
You may now return to your FUD.
you think this all there going to do. Think again
Long live Stoke and it's test's
TraxData
24-10-2007, 20:41
Surfboards going strong
Not for long, only phase 1 of VM stopping you :)
Cobbydaler
24-10-2007, 20:43
Ignore them...
Don't feed the trolls! ;)
Ignore them...
Don't feed the trolls! ;)
Well said that person. :)
MovedGoalPosts
24-10-2007, 20:44
Warnings will follow for anyone breaching our rules hinting at how this anti cloning measures might operate.
Hmmm
A lot of gloating people here
To set a couple of things straight
<Edit Rob: deleted>
The only people this is going to stop are the people who don't know anything, you might gloat about it stopping the cloners but really the only people it's going to get are <edit Rob: Deleted>.
~shrugs~
You may now return to your FUD.
It's not gloating, it's relief by some customers that their oversubbed ubr's might eventually come close to providing what they pay for instead of their connection being raped by as a consequence of what I assume are your thieving little friends activities.
p.s. If I was stealing a service from a company I wouldn't post aggravating messages on a board where employees of that company are members. You'd have to be VERY STUPID to do that if you wanted to keep your free service wouldn't you?
Don't VM *have* to do this - legally? After all the 9/11 stuff and the EU data retention laws (isn't this law now?) don't VM have to be able to trace customers?
[ I think the EU data retention came into force in September - maybe that's it? ]
Or maybe Gordo has made it clear to Sir Dick that cloning has to made a thing of the past, for national security (yadda, yadda).
If that's the case, I guess VM are going to be between the rock of not getting a operators license from ofcom, and the hard place of spending a few million reducing cloning to zero.
In that case, I guess it was just a matter of time until the smart people with the skillz got given the time (and money) and 'sort out the cloning'.
When it comes down to it, if they have a new special team working on this, with support from Cisco and magical software, I guess it's end-of-game. If it is a legal thing, even ONE cloner is going to be hunted down and made to feel the pain. Hehe, would love to see the faces when they get their door smashed in at 5am !
Would be nice to know for sure! Not like VM to be so tight lipped about this - maybe it's even super hush-hush internally!
Ohh, it's like the cold war innit!
Tell you what. There is going to be 100's and 100's of bricked modems going up on ebay, With the owner hopeing some mug will buy it. :LOL:.
Long Live Virgin Media's anti cloning team
Uncle Peter
24-10-2007, 21:18
Hmmm
A lot of gloating people here
To set a couple of things straight
<Edit Rob: deleted>
The only people this is going to stop are the people who don't know anything, you might gloat about it stopping the cloners but really the only people it's going to get are <edit Rob: Deleted>.
~shrugs~
You may now return to your FUD.
And to set the record a bit straighter for you and others. It's not just VM who want to know exactly who and where you are.
Please stick to the topic and not resort to making personal comments or insults. The T&C's apply in all threads.
brundles
24-10-2007, 22:29
Out of curiosity, without giving away details on the methodology used, what are the chances of a false positive with the techniques VM are using?
I fully support what they're doing, but is it possible they could actually brick a modem belonging to a victim of the cloners?
TraxData
24-10-2007, 22:30
Out of curiosity, without giving away details on the methodology used, what are the chances of a false positive with the techniques VM are using?
I fully support what they're doing, but is it possible they could actually brick a modem belonging to a victim of the cloners?
Nope, impossible, cant say anymore as it will show how they are stopping the cloners.
But you have no reason to worry :)
brundles
24-10-2007, 22:34
THB, if my modem got killed by this activity then so long as VM rectified it sharpish and refunded the call to faults I wouldn't be that bothered but as VM Tech Support would be unlikely to say "Oh yeah, you're modem got bricked because we made a mistake" then it's nice to know that the chances of a false positive happening are greatly reduced.
Mr Angry
24-10-2007, 22:42
The current trials are anything but foolproof. However, in the event that a paying subscriber is affected, the scenario you have outlined above is what would be applied.
xspeedyx
24-10-2007, 22:43
well atleast we are doing something about the broadband maybe its true vm are gonna focus on bb more
Uncle Peter
24-10-2007, 22:53
Well they don't have a great deal of choice whether the natives are restless or not. If the subject of a RIPA request is operating under a cloned hardware address it is impossible for VM to supply the subscriber's correct personal details if requested.
scottyboydfc
24-10-2007, 22:56
according to the "dodgy forums" they have fixed the bricked modems.
:rolleyes:
knew it wouldnt be long
Well they don't have a great deal of choice whether the natives are restless or not. If the subject of a RIPA request is operating under a cloned hardware address it is impossible for VM to supply the subscriber's correct personal details if requested.
Er, why? They know the router, they can just unplug cables down the street until they go offline, and there is the house/flat. easy.
I think the "you can't be caught" is massively overblown - just like the "How can they possibly know if you have a TV, but haven't paid the license?!!??"
I would also put money on just being able to use the timing, or a pulse-reflectometer to detect the exact distance of the modem. Your neighbors will be one further, and one nearer, you are in the middle.
To quote ripley, "Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?"
How do you think they know where a faulty cable, or broken modem or tv box is ? This kind of kit is 20 years old...
If you think you're anonymous on any wired network, you just don't understand basic electronics.
Above all else It's a cable: they can follow it! ;)
Uncle Peter
24-10-2007, 23:28
Er, why? They know the router, they can just unplug cables down the street until they go offline, and there is the house/flat. easy.
I think the "you can't be caught" is massively overblown - just like the "How can they possibly know if you have a TV, but haven't paid the license?!!??"
I would also put money on just being able to use the timing, or a pulse-reflectometer to detect the exact distance of the modem. Your neighbors will be one further, and one nearer, you are in the middle.
To quote ripley, "Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?"
How do you think they know where a faulty cable, or broken modem or tv box is ? This kind of kit is 20 years old...
If you think you're anonymous on any wired network, you just don't understand basic electronics.
Above all else It's a cable: they can follow it! ;)
When an interception warrant is issued for example it's not common practice to go knocking someone's door down or juggling drop cables around to find out where the connection terminates. To be fair to VM it's far easier for them to quietly knock these modems off the network. Effective or not, at least they're making a start by running these trials.
When an interception warrant is issued for example it's not common practice to go knocking someone's door down or juggling drop cables around to find out where the connection terminates. To be fair to VM it's far easier for them to quietly knock these modems off the network. Effective or not, at least they're making a start by running these trials.
After all, why give the thieves a sign you are on to them? If they see an engineer at a street box (particuarly at night), they may assume VM is on to them, and simply unplug their modem(s) from the mains.
Above all else It's a cable: they can follow it! ;)
They have NOT got the man power for that. You can have upto 4800 homes on 1 area so thats a lot of man power they do NOT have.
---------- Post added at 06:22 ---------- Previous post was at 06:18 ----------
according to the "dodgy forums" they have fixed the bricked modems.
:rolleyes:
knew it wouldnt be long
That's for those that have the knowledge and the kit to fix them. For the other 100's and 100's that have been sold in Pubs, clubs, Computer fairs and the like, They will be users and will have no idea of how to fix them :LOL:
That's for those that have the knowledge and the kit to fix them. For the other 100's and 100's that have been sold in Pubs, clubs, Computer fairs and the like, They will be users and will have no idea of how to fix them :LOL:
It's a fiver to get a new one ;) ebay is flooded with NTL modems, a seller ilovemyboyk sells them in boxes of 20, in fact there are several sellers that sell boxes of 20.
Nuke em I say.:upyours:
Question, is it just the modems or are VM doing it to the illegal TV set top box's as well?
Before you ask, yes I am fully legal.
while the "****" do seem to start off on the wrong foot could u be nice to them as i find it very interesting. They get BB for free, without talking about how its done its good to hear from the other side.
xspeedyx
25-10-2007, 09:48
Thats abit of a stupid idea like a god dam cloners is gonna say hey this is how I do it on a open forum no they steal everyones bandwidth see how many people have ****ty speeds thank these guys I dont mean to offend but really u want us to be nice to cloners
ECW_Original
25-10-2007, 09:54
Thats abit of a stupid idea like a god dam cloners is gonna say hey this is how I do it on a open forum no they steal everyones bandwidth see how many people have ****ty speeds thank these guys I dont mean to offend but really u want us to be nice to cloners
Id rather be 'nice' to them with a good hard kick in the balls with my size 11 steel toe cap boots, that would suffice for now hehe ;);)
tweetiepooh
25-10-2007, 09:59
I'd rather send them to prison where their connection is limited and monitored and when someone calls them "petal" it's not their mum.
id like to think u could be nice to everyone.
they steal a service. Im sure you lot are all perfect and have never stolen say....software? :) (of course some of u are nice chaps but lets face it you cant use the web without stealing some copyright somewhere)
so step over to the entertainment forum where i will call u **** for stealing the latest bionic woman episode :)
now lets all play nice its good to see VM has done something its interesting that some cloners have found a way round it - its nice to see that speeds have improved in some areas as well.
whats next :)
ECW_Original
25-10-2007, 10:46
I'd rather send them to prison where their connection is limited and monitored and when someone calls them "petal" it's not their mum.
LOL there is only 1 problem with that, inmates are not allowed access to the internet or email, if you are lucky, you can do a computer course, but thats as far as it goes, i found this out the hard way, I hated using a PC and not being able to check my email or chat or just simply browse the net for things to interest me and take my mind off it:(
Ok here gos as far as this forums rules go I wont give out any info on how too clone.
But why is you think us guys are getting you bandwidth. we are not the network was oversubscribed anyway because ntl/and virgin are too tight to bye external bandwidth.
If all clones were stopped by magic today trust me you still ain't going to see virgin spend anything on bandwidth.
and you really recon that they will remove traffic shaping as well.
remember us lot ain't abusing you lot and remember next time you on bit torrent you stealing too.
you will find most of the cloners are paying virgin for a sub-ed modem anyway.
Flame suite on.
---------- Post added at 12:21 ---------- Previous post was at 12:17 ----------
Nope, impossible, cant say anymore as it will show how they are stopping the cloners.
But you have no reason to worry :)
Hi coretec
That not what you been saying elsewhere now was it.
Ok here gos as far as this forums rules go I wont give out any info on how too clone.
Good.
But why is you think us guys are getting you bandwidth. we are not the network was oversubscribed anyway because ntl/and virgin are too tight to bye external bandwidth.
If all clones were stopped by magic today trust me you still ain't going to see virgin spend anything on bandwidth.
So you don't agree someone using 5-6 modems in an area will effect the available bandwidth for paying customers. And if the cloning magically stopped the paying customers wouldn't see an increase in speed?
you will find most of the cloners are paying virgin for a sub-ed modem anyway.
So are you paying the full price for all the modems you run?
Trust me no one runs 5 or 6 that would be a wast of time
Its worth running a couple to balance the load abit if you are on bittorrent or news binaries
and 99.9 percent wont be hammering any more that the average subscriber
one more this many are under the false impression that if there mac is cloned that they will get caped because of the clone.
This is not true I cant explain why because that would break the forum rules and give out two much info.
But YOU can take that as stated fact that just because you mac get cloned you will still get you full bandwidth limit before you are caped.
go on own up how many or you got a legit copy of windows ?
when I signed up and payed my money I didnt sign up to get traffic shaped.
virgin are not losing any money because of this,
We do you think they aint bothered doing anythig
but its a very handy excuse for them to use to lie about the traffic shaping and bandwidth limits.
Its worth running a couple to balance the load abit if you are on bittorrent or news binaries
Still taking up big chunks of bandwidth that you are not paying for.
and 99.9 percent wont be hammering any more that the average subscriber
Sure. Only 0.1% of people who go to the hassle of running cloned modems are in it for hammering bandwidth.
So they pay Virgin the rental for all the modems they run and just have them there for the hell of it? :rolleyes:
But why is you think us guys are getting you bandwidth.
Well it seems so..
quite a few people i know are now getting 20mbit speeds instead of 1-7mbit
the increase in speed could be anything...
the reson virgin cap and traffic shape are the same as of isp
it was the explotion and poplarity of p2p and they underestimated the traffic and dont want the cost of the band with too cut into there profits.
You running on a genuine copy of windows ?
have you ever owen a pirat copy of any soft where
do you download movies ?
do download mp3`s ?
come on pull the other one
the increase in speed could be anything...
Could be, but does seem a bit more than a coincidence? :)
the increase in speed could be anything...
quite right they only attacked one model of modems not all of them.
and that hasn't work that well anyway.
the reson virgin cap and traffic shape are the same as of isp
it was the explotion and poplarity of p2p and they underestimated the traffic and dont want the cost of the band with too cut into there profits.
You running on a genuine copy of windows ?
have you ever owen a pirat copy of any soft where
do you download movies ?
do download mp3`s ?
come on pull the other one
This isn't a discussion about the rights and wrongs of copyright theft. It's about the rights and wrongs of stealing bandwidth that isn't being paid for.
At the end of the day the bandwidth available to a section of the network isn't infinite and if you are running either multiple modems or modems at a higher speed than you are paying for you are stealing and reducing the available bandwidth to paying customers.
Mr_love_monkey
25-10-2007, 13:54
You running on a genuine copy of windows ?
have you ever owen a pirat copy of any soft where
do you download movies ?
do download mp3`s ?
I think that's a pretty lousy justification for it - you can't say that _everyone_ that has a pc, has a dodgy copy of windows, etc, etc - whereas we _can_ say that _everybody_ who has a cloned modem is doing something illegal.
You running on a genuine copy of windows ?
have you ever owen a pirat copy of any soft where
do you download movies ?
do download mp3`s ?
come on pull the other one
I wonder if the people using chipped on digital boxes used a similar justification before the plug was pulled on that service due to the heavy losses it was making?
If the cloning gets too bad on VM, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that they will fold, thus, denying their broadband to everyone (cloners included).
This isn't a discussion about the rights and wrongs of copyright theft. It's about the rights and wrongs of stealing bandwidth that isn't being paid for.
stealing anything is wrong. I think what hes getting at is he steals bandwidth you steal movies/songs/software.
The only draw back is his stealing "may" (who knows) have an affect on your connection :) where as you running a pirate version of norton anti virus isnt bothering him :)
Well it seems so..
TraxData has been court in other forum claiming to be a virgin tec with info but got court out redhanded by IP
I wouldent take alot of notice of what he says yesterday he was claiming he was going to fill the cloners in on twhat VM are doing
hes full of it lol.
as I said I cant explain why we are not swiping you download limets as it may break the forum rules
unless the mods want me to say why
lets just say thats not the way it works with a clone.
tweetiepooh
25-10-2007, 13:58
AFAIK none of the software I have installed is illegal and none of the films I've grabbed are either. I've either paid for my software or it's FOSS and free anyway.
There are some bits that are shareware but where the author is not contactable or has retired the software anyway. So who to pay?
Theft is theft and needs to be dealt with appropriately. Don't pay for the service, don't use it. Don't like the AUP find a supplier with one you do like and pay them (then watch them implement a AUP to counter the small number of abusers who thrash the system to the extent they do affect other customers.).
I wonder if the people using chipped on digital boxes used a similar justification before the plug was pulled on that service due to the heavy losses it was making?
If the cloning gets too bad on VM, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that they will fold, thus, denying their broadband to everyone (cloners included).
I got a couple of digi boxs as well but it aint worth watching since sky one went offline :D:D:D
when I signed up and payed my money I didnt sign up to get traffic shaped.
virgin are not losing any money because of this,
so why not move to adsl and pay for your service or do you feel the need to steal somsone elses internet because of the shaping that affects ALL subscribers ?
and yes the bandwidth is paid for so how do you figure you are not losing VM money that could be used to improve then network and speeds?
as I said I cant explain why we are not swiping you download limets as it may break the forum rules
unless the mods want me to say why
lets just say thats not the way it works with a clone.
Ok, you might not be taking someones limit away but you are still removing download capacity from the network which can, and does, affect other users.
AFAIK none of the software I have installed is illegal and none of the films I've grabbed are either. I've either paid for my software or it's FOSS and free anyway.
There are some bits that are shareware but where the author is not contactable or has retired the software anyway. So who to pay?
Theft is theft and needs to be dealt with appropriately. Don't pay for the service, don't use it. Don't like the AUP find a supplier with one you do like and pay them (then watch them implement a AUP to counter the small number of abusers who thrash the system to the extent they do affect other customers.).
what about all the enginers floging chiped boxs and modems.
what about all the enginers floging chiped boxs and modems.
And? Are they holding you at gunpoint and forcing you to steal service? No.
Ok, you might not be taking someones limit away but you are still removing download capacity from the network which can, and does, affect other users.
no more that the bandwidth i was paying for before you unfairly change the terms of the contract.
---------- Post added at 13:04 ---------- Previous post was at 13:02 ----------
And? Are they holding you at gunpoint and forcing you to steal service? No.
no but the truth is I rather have the saved money in my wallet than VM bank account.
ok you win its stealing but hey Im the one with free broadband and no traffic shaping affecting me.
If VM change there AUP ill change mine :D
no more that the bandwith i was paying for before you unfairly change the terms of the contract.
Uh huh. And when the AUP changed (which BTW had nothing to do with me) did you decide to cancel, or look for an alternative provider without it?
If VM change there AUP ill change mine :D
Sure you will ... :rolleyes:
I did find a alternative provider that why yu lot are complain.
No really I would I dident mind paying for the uncaped service I signed up for it was worth the money
Now the cable TV that never been worth paying for you can more entertainment playing with the digi box than watch the crap thats on the channels.
<snip>
Why do you think we're interested in whatever petty justifications you think you have? You're stealing, it affects the network and other, paying customers. There's not much more to say really.
martsmall
25-10-2007, 14:21
Why do you think we're interested in whatever petty justifications you think you have? You're stealing, it affects the network and other (paying) customers. There's not much more to say really.
just like downloading mp3s/pc games/apps affects other customers & the company's but most of every 1 is ok with that
ppl just playing the holier than thou crap
I did find a alternative provider that why yu lot are complain.
No really I would I dident mind paying for the uncaped service I signed up for it was worth the money
Now the cable TV that never been worth paying for you can more entertainment playing with the digi box than watch the crap thats on the channels.
If you put as much effort into learning English as you do into being a thief, I might have understood what you're trying to say.
If you put as much effort into learning English as you do into being a thief, I might have understood what you're trying to say.
why when they run out of things to say do forum posters all ways resort to playing the spelling police game ?
at least there honor among thieves :D
---------- Post added at 13:31 ---------- Previous post was at 13:28 ----------
Why do you think we're interested in whatever petty justifications you think you have? You're stealing, it affects the network and other, paying customers. There's not much more to say really.
I'm not all the justifications i need are folded up in my wallet instead of vm`s
why when they run out of things to say do forum posters all ways resort to playing the spelling police game ?
at least there honor among thieves :D
Spelling police? Not a bit of it. You're a thieving scumbag and I feel like putting the boot in. Your inability to write properly just happens to be a more convenient target than your hairy great bumcheeks right now.
:LOL: I can see this thread being closed soon. :rolleyes:
I did find a alternative provider that why yu lot are complain.
No really I would I dident mind paying for the uncaped service I signed up for it was worth the money
Now the cable TV that never been worth paying for you can more entertainment playing with the digi box than watch the crap thats on the channels.
You will find nearly ALL isps have a FUP and AUP with regards to downloading and traffic shaping so your way around it is to get a cloned modem
and did you find another provider? no you are still using VM just on a cloned modem that doesnt cost you anything but degrades others performance, yay go you:rolleyes:
Am I correct to say that the score is
Cloners 2 NTL 1
In other words the cloners fixed the hole used by NTL and furthermore de-bricked their modems?
Spelling police? Not a bit of it. You're a thieving scumbag and I feel like putting the boot in. Your inability to write properly just happens to be a more convenient target than your hairy great bumcheeks right now.
ALL this hostility have you consider some anger counseling my friend.
Personally I'm a great believer in :luv: and peace.
so lots of :luv: to you Chris
god :luv:`s you even ar$e bandits
peace my brother
AndyIggs83
25-10-2007, 14:39
I'd just ignore the poster, he's blatantly come on here to stir, it's pointless arguing
Just report the details to VM and it's up to them what they do with it
As for what he is saying about TraxData, hadn't everyone clocked onto how dodgy he was!?
bringerofnoise
25-10-2007, 14:41
Maybe they was meant to have unbricked them, hopefully for VM to then use the law to claim back the money amongst other things
Am I correct to say that the score is
Cloners 2 NTL 1
In other words the cloners fixed the hole used by NTL and furthermore de-bricked their modems?
yes they can be unbricked and protected from being bricked again.
---------- Post added at 13:47 ---------- Previous post was at 13:41 ----------
I'd just ignore the poster, he's blatantly come on here to stir, it's pointless arguing
Just report the details to VM and it's up to them what they do with it
As for what he is saying about TraxData, hadn't everyone clocked onto how dodgy he was!?
no m8 I didn't come here too stir it up really I didn't
just one or two poster say they would like to hear our side too
I want string about TraxData at all its true some time back he was around other forum and was pretty much sussed
as VM tried the bricking of some modems he came back say he was going to get us info on what virgin was doing while post here the opposite
but he was sussed and proved to be same person.
we ain't got a clue who he really is apart from a bit of a plum.
but it looks like you lot sussed the oddness as well.
---------- Post added at 13:53 ---------- Previous post was at 13:47 ----------
:LOL: I can see this thread being closed soon. :rolleyes:
I don't see why If us thieving **** :D:D:D can play nice without abuseing you then I don't See why the other forum members here cant do the same
yes they can be unbricked and protected from being bricked again.
Thanks. Again, I feel that NTL's attack was amateurish and very childish... How can I put it, NTL has gone down to the level of the hackers, and given NTL's incompetence, we all know who will win in the end...
How about some proper solution to the problem?
BBKing: was this your idea?
Thanks. Again, I feel that NTL's attack was amateurish and very childish... How can I put it, NTL has gone down to the level of the hackers, and given NTL's incompetence, we all know who will win in the end...
How about some proper solution to the problem?
BBKing: was this your idea?
That's the point it is a game of cat and mouse I wouldn't be any fun for us if it want.
Its the game that drives us to do it, more than a bit of free Internet.
I cant tell you the solution as it would breach forum rules. What I can tell you is it would cost them money
they are not worried about the hackers as such there worried about the hangers on and Muppet's selling modems
and there not losing enough money to justify spending the more too fix clones.
don't believe everything ntl/vm tell you. they tell porkies
Mr_love_monkey
25-10-2007, 15:08
Its the game that drives us to do it, more than a bit of free Internet.
But I thought you were making a political stand, against the tyranny of an AUP and traffic shaping, thus helping to protect all of mankind and the free world as we know it?
Well yes the majority of cloned modems on the network do keep <edit Rob - a bit too much information> so they have managed to take a HUGE amount of cloners offline, and from what i hear b/w in stoke on trent has been massively cleared up (quite a few people i know are now getting 20mbit speeds instead of 1-7mbit)
I've been getting full 20mbit for the past few months but I'm sure it can't be down to VM killing cloned modems alone. Either way, it's nice to see things are actually being done.
I am amazed that we are even condesending to respond to "MrClone".
The arguments are old, and typical of anyone trying to justify theft. Quite frankly I am having a bit of a hard time trying to work out what he/she is trying to say anyway.
Iglu, I am surprised that you have accepted an explanation from somebody who claims to have solved the problem or claims to be aware of a solution, and then you retort to insults against Virgin Media!
I applaud any legitimate effort to take back the network from those who steal from it. They (Virgin Media) own it and the modems that connect to it, they have every legal means at their disposal and right to take whatever action they can to remove fraud.
interesting read folks!!!
just a couple of points genuine modems are being hit but its still agood thing because we put them back on again, the man who got his clone in the pub he is history but the keen people like mr clone are back on and doing grand buisness again this will always be the case until vm start changing hardware and that costs money so we all know it wont happen!!
But I thought you were making a political stand, against the tyranny of an AUP and traffic shaping, thus helping the protect all of mankind and the free world as we know it?
It's plain curiosity mate, I read in detail how to clone the modems, on the basis I needed to know how to. Due to curiosity, I read and understood what NTL did. And I also read how to block NTL's attack. Un-bricking is next lesson to learn.
I have no interest in cloning my modem....
I have every respect for technical ability & ingeniouty of DerEngel and the Aussie bird Isabela. There is nothing bright about NTL's attack, it will only antagonize the cloners and create more heros in the community...
martsmall
25-10-2007, 15:22
Either way, it's nice to see things are actually being done.
& failed
maybe virgin should have saved time/money & invested in descent networks so ppl wouldnt have problems or sorting out thier sky 1 crap instead of playing catch up with crappy virginone
& failed
maybe virgin should have saved time/money & invested in descent networks so ppl wouldnt have problems or sorting out thier sky 1 crap instead of playing catch up with crappy virginone
LOL, they are coming out of the woodwork now, I bet CF has never had so many new registrations in 24 hours.
:D:D:D:D
interesting read folks!!!
just a couple of points genuine modems are being hit but its still agood thing because we put them back on again, the man who got his clone in the pub he is history but the keen people like mr clone are back on and doing grand buisness again this will always be the case until vm start changing hardware and that costs money so we all know it wont happen!!
finally some that knows what there talking about.
you quite right all it will do is **** off some hangers on the leaching dealers that sell em will make a bit redoing the bricked ones so there happy.
but as you said vm wont spend out on new hardware as they ain't losing that much the hardware would cost more than there losing.
Its the same with chiped tv boxs
but they will use clones as the excuse for screwing you on bandwith and the AUP
martsmall
25-10-2007, 15:26
LOL, they are coming out of the woodwork now, I bet CF has never had so many new registrations in 24 hours.
:D:D:D:D
u actually seen my join date ?
u actually seen my join date ?
I was generalising, and in honesty....couldn't really care.
Iglu, I am surprised that you have accepted an explanation from somebody who claims to have solved the problem or claims to be aware of a solution, and then you retort to insults against Virgin Media!
I am always polite. :) I thanked him for confirming the un-bricking (I need to verify this by learning how to) -- several other cloners claimed the same. My interest is purely scientific...
martsmall
25-10-2007, 15:29
I was generalising, and in honesty....couldn't really care.
but u used my post as a quote as u were referring to me to be fair
I am always polite. :) I thanked him for confirming the un-bricking (I need to verify this by learning how to) -- several other cloners claimed the same. My interest is purely scientific...
Ahh, science ;)
---------- Post added at 15:34 ---------- Previous post was at 15:33 ----------
but u used my post as a quote as u were referring to me to be fair
Honestly, couldn't really care.
martsmall
25-10-2007, 15:36
Ahh, science ;)
---------- Post added at 15:34 ---------- Previous post was at 15:33 ----------
Honestly, couldn't really care.
thats the way it goes hey owe some 1 a apology but dont care
LOL, they are coming out of the woodwork now, I bet CF has never had so many new registrations in 24 hours.
:D:D:D:D
as long as nobody talks specifics i dont see the problem, it all makes for a interesting read;)
---------- Post added at 15:42 ---------- Previous post was at 15:39 ----------
I was generalising, and in honesty....couldn't really care.
Ahh, science ;)
---------- Post added at 15:34 ---------- Previous post was at 15:33 ----------
Honestly, couldn't really care.
you seem to not care rather a lot!!
as long as nobody talks specifics i dont see the problem, it all makes for a interesting read;)
---------- Post added at 15:42 ---------- Previous post was at 15:39 ----------
you seem to not care rather a lot!!
I agree and IV tryed not to break any rules and give out specifics.
I applaud any legitimate effort to take back the network from those who steal from it. They (Virgin Media) own it and the modems that connect to it, they have every legal means at their disposal and right to take whatever action they can to remove fraud.
Well Said!
:beer: << have one :)
I agree and IV tryed not to break any rules and give out specifics.
Its all good reading
Its all good reading
lmao
---------- Post added at 14:50 ---------- Previous post was at 14:48 ----------
Well Said!
:beer: << have one :)
so do we really IT gives us something to do to relive the boredom
No, I'll say my piece.
As a regular poster and lurker here, I have seen the genuine frustration of people who legitimately pay for their service, and actually think Virgin Media are a good company, and yet have to suffer a degraded service because some thieving ****** can't get off his shell suited backside and pay for the service. When he connects his altered modem he cares only about himself, and does not consider the impact he's having on the service for those in his immediate area.
Then people, such as yourself martsmall, come on here, and blame Virgin Media for the problem. You offer no argument to support your claim, not even a basic "Well done Virgin" for trying to address the problem.
I am not prepared to pay a penny more for my service to prevent cloners from gaining access to this network, and I applaud Virgin for coming up with something that appears to be working, and that restores my faith in their ability to get to the bottom of these issues.
I'm a pretty easy going person, but its comments like yours from less than infrequent contributors to this forum that really tick me off. Sadly, you have the right to post what you want. Fortunately, I have the right of reply.
I will not be apologising.
Its all good reading
its good to talk but why the wind-up with the pic/avatar??
its not offensive is it m8
god :luv:`s you even ar$e bandits
peace my brother
What was that you were saying earlier about predictable forum posters? :dozey:
martsmall
25-10-2007, 16:03
Then people, such as yourself martsmall, come on here, and blame Virgin Media for the problem. You offer no argument to support your claim, not even a basic "Well done Virgin" for trying to address the problem.
I will not be apologising.
virginmedia have done loads to me ty e.g paying for a 10mb service bt only getting 2mb & taking 3 months to sort the crap out, taken off sky 1 but i still pay the same price every month even though when i signed up to it i had sky 1, if virgin want a well done from me maybe they should sort out thier many many other probs b4 they waste thier time of stopping a small percentage ( which hasnt worked anyway )compared to the many ppl that are having problems, it just makes it easier for ppl like u 2 blame ppl who own cloned modem than actually face the truth that virgin are useless
so basically if ppl dont think like u thier not worth apoligising to ?
What was that you were saying earlier about predictable forum posters? :dozey:
quote the rest of it
agin peace and love my friend
Jesus loves clones and you too.
if virgin want a well done from me maybe they should sort out thier many many other probs b4 they waste thier time of stopping a small percentage ( which hasnt worked anyway )
Okay then, lets to the sensible thing and get rid of the oversubscription on the UBRs.
Ohh lets see, why dont we go kick all the fine people off?
Or even better, how bout we kick the cloners off who are stealing bandwidth off the UBR, causing it to be oversubscribed?
Which is more likely to eat up more bandwidth?
One average joe with a single modem giving him 20mbits?
One other guy with 20 modems giving him 20mbits?
Hmm...
Firstly good that VM are at least trying to do something about it.
Secondly of course people are going to find a way around it though, its Cat and Mouse same as everything else in the computer security world.
Someone's always trying to play catch-up, the usuall cycle,
exploit found exploit patched new one found and so on.
quote the rest of it
agin peace and love my friend
Jesus loves clones and you too.
I do not wish to turn it into a religious debate, but please read the commandments.
quote the rest of it
agin peace and love my friend
Jesus loves clones and you too.
I only need to quote the bits I'm interested in. ;)
Jesus does indeed love you, and he tells you he forgives you, and to go and sin no more. Seeing as you've invoked his name, I assume you're off to disconnect your cloned modem now?
its good to talk but why the wind-up with the pic/avatar??
ITs not the pic thats making me lmao.
you got to be in the know to get the joke
martsmall
25-10-2007, 16:09
Okay then, lets to the sensible thing and get rid of the oversubscription on the UBRs.
Ohh lets see, why dont we go kick all the fine people off?
Or even better, how bout we kick the cloners off who are stealing bandwidth off the UBR, causing it to be oversubscribed?
Which is more likely to eat up more bandwidth?
One average joe with a single modem giving him 20mbits?
One other guy with 20 modems giving him 20mbits?
Hmm...
the point i was trying to make is virgin has other stuff to sort like thier obcession with fighting sky plus even if they did kick off every cloned modem most areas would still b oversubscribed
I'll not apologise no.
Your arguments are without any foundation and I quote:
if virgin want a well done from me maybe they should sort out thier many many other probs b4 they waste thier time of stopping a small percentage ( which hasnt worked anyway )compared to the many ppl that are having problems,
Problems with billing and other issues aside, this thread is about a change to the network that VM have made to tackle a growing problem.
I only need to quote the bits I'm interested in. ;)
Jesus does indeed love you, and he tells you he forgives you, and to go and sin no more. Seeing as you've invoked his name, I assume you're off to disconnect your cloned modem now?
nope Jesus forgives our sins
peace and love to you my friend
MovedGoalPosts
25-10-2007, 16:11
I'd like to welcome our new members from another forum, which shall remain nameless. Unfortunately I can't since some are clearly not just using the cat and mouse game to justify their activities, but indeed also use cloning for far more serious and disruptive purposes.
Many are concerned about the implications of bandwidth. Of greater concern has to be the use of cloned modems for percieved anonymous hacking of computers, websites and the like. Indeed since many of these users will beleive they are "untouchable" who knows what other greater misuse exists.
Virgin Media not only must be applauded for their efforts to prevent cloned users, but also have a duty to prevent misuse of their network in this manner.
TraxData
25-10-2007, 16:11
ITs not the pic thats making me lmao.
you got to be in the know to get the joke
Please go back home you troll.
Why CF mods have not banned you yet is beyond me.
CoreTech? yes ok then, go match our ips then dumb****, oh yea that's right, they will not match, why? because im not him.
It's funny though because at your forum that "CoreTech" guy told you VM were about to run a trial to stop you "cloners" and aww look what you did to him.
Someone has abit of a grudge against him now dont they?
To say this trial attack hasnt bothered you lot in the slightest, it seems highly amusing that you have had to come on here and try to cause trouble, if it hasnt bothered you, why come here at all?
Go back to your 1,2,3,4 or 5x20mbit modems, you'll be caught in the end, and when you do, you can get a big **** you from me and no doubt every other honest user on here who's bandwith you steal day in and day out.
its not offensive is it m8
its not offensive but its just a bit my d**k is bigger yours kind of thing!!!
nope Jesus forgives our sins
peace and love to you my friend
You might be the BigBoss when it comes to thieving your internet service but you're not going to win a religious discussion with me Mr Thief. I extend to you the same invitation I give to everyone on this forum who makes a religious point in a non-religious thread: if you are genuinely interested in such things, send me a PM.
I'd like to welcome our new members from another forum, which shall remain nameless. Unfortunately I can't since some are clearly not just using the cat and mouse game to justify their activities, but indeed also use cloning for far more serious and disruptive purposes.
Many are concerned about the implications of bandwidth. Of greater concern has to be the use of cloned modems for percieved anonymous hacking of computers, websites and the like. Indeed since many of these users will beleive they are "untouchable" who knows what other greater misuse exists.
Virgin Media not only must be applauded for their efforts to prevent cloned users, but also have a duty to prevent misuse of their network in this manner.
Well you moles were welcomed into ours
peace brother
ITs not the pic thats making me lmao.
you got to be in the know to get the joke
No you haven't, you just have to have half a brain cell and access to Google. That user name will be changing in the very near future.
Mr_love_monkey
25-10-2007, 16:14
its not offensive but its just a bit my d**k is bigger yours kind of thing!!!
which is silly really, because everyone knows mine is the biggest
The old saying, if you dont have anything productive to say, dont say anything.
I'll not apologise no.
Your arguments are without any foundation and I quote:
Problems with billing and other issues aside, this thread is about a change to the network that VM have made to tackle a growing problem.
thats the poijnt were trying to make m8
they havent made any changes to the network they were just playing around a bit.
there are not going to do anything to the network as it would cost much much more money that the tiney mit they lose from clones.
VM know the truth the cloners know the truth. the punters believe the hype
TraxData
25-10-2007, 16:16
thats the poijnt were trying to make m8
they havent made any changes to the network they were just playing around a bit.
there are not going to do anything to the network as it would cost much much more money that the tiney mit they lose from clones.
VM know the truth the cloners know the truth. the punters believe the hype
Oh brother, i suppose the upgrades they've been doing to ubrs just lately didnt really happen then?
Must just be a mystery as to why 20mbit has settled down properly for alot of people, except peak times of course, where you steal warez all day and night to sell on.
P.S Read my message above, then go back to your forum, your not welcome here.
Unfortunately I can't since some are clearly not just using the cat and mouse game to justify their activities, but indeed also use cloning for far more serious and disruptive purposes.
Lets hope the cat gets some more mice then ;)
martsmall
25-10-2007, 16:18
I'll not apologise no.
Your arguments are without any foundation and I quote:
Problems with billing and other issues aside, this thread is about a change to the network that VM have made to tackle a growing problem.
other issues
poor customer support ( 4ever 2 get in touch with some 1 & then given the run around )
poor billing procedures ( e.g a m8 having a big bill saying unpaid even though they were takling the money via direct debit) & took ages to sort)
****ty virgin 1 replacing a good channel but still paying
from personal experience the worst thing that hapenned was tw was taken over its been downhill since
but lets spend money/time failing 2 knock off a few cloners
from personal experience the worst thing that hapenned was tw was taken over its been downhill since
Technically speaking, TW took over ntl, due to some legal reasons over Flextech. Regardless, both boards/shareholders agreed to it.
Uncle Peter
25-10-2007, 16:21
I'd like to welcome our new members from another forum, which shall remain nameless. Unfortunately I can't since some are clearly not just using the cat and mouse game to justify their activities, but indeed also use cloning for far more serious and disruptive purposes.
Many are concerned about the implications of bandwidth. Of greater concern has to be the use of cloned modems for percieved anonymous hacking of computers, websites and the like. Indeed since many of these users will beleive they are "untouchable" who knows what other greater misuse exists.
Virgin Media not only must be applauded for their efforts to prevent cloned users, but also have a duty to prevent misuse of their network in this manner.
And also comply with this:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/draft/20022323.htm
Which, whether you agree with it or not, hiding behind a false hardware address does not make it particularly easy for VM to fully comply.
Please go back home you troll.
Why CF mods have not banned you yet is beyond me.
CoreTech? yes ok then, go match our ips then dumb****, oh yea that's right, they will not match, why? because im not him.
It's funny though because at your forum that "CoreTech" guy told you VM were about to run a trial to stop you "cloners" and aww look what you did to him.
Someone has abit of a grudge against him now dont they?
To say this trial attack hasnt bothered you lot in the slightest, it seems highly amusing that you have had to come on here and try to cause trouble, if it hasnt bothered you, why come here at all?
Go back to your 1,2,3,4 or 5x20mbit modems, you'll be caught in the end, and when you do, you can get a big **** you from me and no doubt every other honest user on here who's bandwith you steal day in and day out.
TraxData or is coretec look m8 chill man
Jesus loves you I love you two come on give us a kiss you know you want too
PS I'm not trolling I'm just me
playing both side off against each other is trolling m8 and you got court red handed they even smelt a rat her m8.
but hey I love you man your funny and entertaining.
I forgive you my brother
Jesus forgives you for you know not what you do.
seriously all the best m8
Oh brother, i suppose the upgrades they've been doing to ubrs just lately didnt really happen then?
Must just be a mystery as to why 20mbit has settled down properly for alot of people, except peak times of course, where you steal warez all day and night to sell on.
P.S Read my message above, then go back to your forum, your not welcome here.
We all know they have their pet theories, but unless they work for the company, or sitting with an engineer in a head-end and watch them doing the upgrade, they will still call black white. :)
TraxData
25-10-2007, 16:25
TraxData or is coretec look m8 chill man
Jesus loves you I love you two come on give us a kiss you know you want too
PS I'm not trolling I'm just me
playing both side off against each other is trolling m8 and you got court red handed they even smelt a rat her m8.
but hey I love you man your funny and entertaining.
I forgive you my brother
Jesus forgives you for you know not what you do.
seriously all the best m8
Firstly, learn how to spell, its caught, not court.
Did your mummy not teach your grammar? or are your not out of primary school yet?
Your being a troll, and for that, i shall ignore you from now on and hopefully see you get banned.
Good Day.
one thing you have not considered yet
IS not all cloned modems are the property of virgin and are legally own not nicked from ntl or vm.
technically but hitting the way they did without going into to many detail
the are guilty of criminal damage and have breached Computer Misuse Act
those that know about the details think about it for a min
but they probably haven't figured that bit out yet knowing how slow they are.
Taking a modem and modifying it any way is illegal. The modems are property of Virgin Media, and thus modifying them is classed as Damage to Property.
End of story.
one thing you have not considered yet
IS not all cloned modems are the property of virgin and are legally own not nicked from ntl or vm.
technically but hitting the way they did without going into to many detail
the are guilty of criminal damage and have breached Computer Misuse Act
those that know about the details think about it for a min
but they probably haven't figured that bit out yet knowing how slow they are.Sorry matey but that's like claiming it's the driver's fault if you decide to lie down in the middle of a motorway and then get squashed. If that's the line you've been rehearsing for the judge if they ever come after you, please let me know what day you're up for sentence, I love a good laugh.
Firstly, learn how to spell, its caught, not court.
Did your mummy not teach your grammar? or are your not out of primary school yet?
Your being a troll, and for that, i shall ignore you from now on and hopefully see you get banned.
Good Day.
trax m8 I'm got going to insult you or argue with you as that's what you want
mods if you want proff about trax trolling here and elsewhere you know the Addy for the forum I'm talking about and I'm Shaw some of you visit take a look
again trax whatever you name is you have a nice day m8
Jesus forgives you insults and so can I
peace man jesus loves you.
TraxData
25-10-2007, 16:33
trax m8 I'm got going to insult you or argue with you as that's what you want
mods if you want proff about trax trolling here and elsewhere you know the Addy for the forum I'm talking about and I'm Shaw some of you visit take a look
again trax whatever you name is you have a nice day m8
Jesus forgives you insults and so can I
peace man jesus loves you.
Have fun :)
one thing you have not considered yet
IS not all cloned modems are the property of virgin and are legally own not nicked from ntl or vm.
technically but hitting the way they did without going into to many detail
the are guilty of criminal damage and have breached Computer Misuse Act
those that know about the details think about it for a min
but they probably haven't figured that bit out yet knowing how slow they are.
im sure that anybody who has suffered equipment/modem loss and can explain why they would be fully compensated ........do you (mr clone) really think somebody will try to claim??
How long the hack has who knows,one thing though vm are haemorrhaging stbs/modems etc through ebay and its blatant.
You think they would try and stem this flow of equipment in the first place,as for dodgy engs/techs thats another story.
Sorry matey but that's like claiming it's the driver's fault if you decide to lie down in the middle of a motorway and then get squashed. If that's the line you've been rehearsing for the judge if they ever come after you, please let me know what day you're up for sentence, I love a good laugh.
no serously it was something that ocured to me they are tenchicaly guilty as stated
I never said I was a defence m8
just that VM have broke a the law as well as the cloners.
no serously it was something that ocured to me they are tenchicaly guilty as stated
I never said I was a defence m8
just that VM have broke a the law as well as the cloners.
You're right, it's not a defence. I also doubt very seriously that VM have broken any law. Sorry, if you need to justify your thieving to us you're going to have to try harder.
I would have thought that the CMA wouldn't apply if you *owned* the computer (in this case, cable modem) in question. As Virgin do.
How long the hack has who knows,one thing though vm are haemorrhaging stbs/modems etc through ebay and its blatant.
You think they would try and stem this flow of equipment in the first place,as for dodgy engs/techs thats another story.
you can quite legally buy modems and stb that can be cloned/chipped/reprogrammed that are nothing to do with VM and not from there stock
plus they don't care anyway as it cost em more to come round and collect em that let end up on ebay
---------- Post added at 15:39 ---------- Previous post was at 15:38 ----------
I would have thought that the CMA wouldn't apply if you *owned* the computer (in this case, cable modem) in question. As Virgin do.
no they don't own em all. that's my point you can get modems that have never been ow-en by vm perfectly legally
I'm not trying to justify anything.
I agree we are on a five finger discount and loving it that ain't the issue um discussing its illegal yes I agree
weather it morally wrought or now we would probably disagree on that point
I'm just pointing out legaly vm have not thort this out and have screwed up from a legal point.
Mr_love_monkey
25-10-2007, 16:43
you can quite legally buy modems and stb that can be cloned/chipped/reprogrammed that are nothing to do with VM and not from there stock
Yeah, but they shouldn't be connected to the network - so I doubt VM can be blamed for breaking them
Mr Clean
25-10-2007, 16:53
This has got to be the funniest thread ever. Cheers for the amusement folks. Really enjoyed reading so far.
brundles
25-10-2007, 16:57
Yeah, but they shouldn't be connected to the network - so I doubt VM can be blamed for breaking them
Exactly - as many have said VM paid for the network - they own it. If you breach the agreement you made when you signed up by connecting unsanctioned equipment to the network then VM cannot be held responsible for what happens to it.
While I agree that VM probably actually don't care about the 20MB MrClone is getting compared to the 2MB he's paying for, what they DO care about is the other 10 customers on the same point in the network who now get crap service because of his 1/2/however many modems. Those are 10 paying customers generating more revenue (probably each of them individually too) than he is. The effect of 10 customers also making recommendations to friends/family for or against VM based on the service they are receiving that's been degraded by MrClone would also be of much more interest then the loss of a bit of bandwidth. They're not going for him because of the bandwidth he's stealing - they're going for him because of the impact he has on their business as a result of it.
The intelligent (and I say that seriously not sarcastically) cloners seem to forget that VM (like any telecoms company) engineer their network based on a combination of the current customer based and planned expansion. If they lose capacity because of people stealing it then their calculations go out the window and paying customers suffer. We're long past the days of "free" bandwidth when telecoms companies had more kit than they knew what to do with - it all costs them money and as a business they need to account for that cost and make it worth something.
This has got to be the funniest thread ever. Cheers for the amusement folks. Really enjoyed reading so far.
we do have a sense of humor you know
you can quite legally buy modems and stb that can be cloned/chipped/reprogrammed that are nothing to do with VM and not from there stock
Oh really?
http://www.uk-legislation.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1997/1997004.htm
And you will find that this act covers......anyone?
Electronic communication devices connected to a telecommunications network.
Oh really?
http://www.uk-legislation.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1997/1997004.htm
And you will find that this act covers......anyone?
Electronic communication devices connected to a telecommunications network.
no no no tonto you misunderstand what im saying try to keep up m8
I know is ilegal to conect the modem and rob you free broard band
yes this is very illegal
what i was saying that most modems were the property of ntl/vm and they can do what the hell they like with them ie most of em sold on ebay
but there are place you can buy cable modems legally and own them legally that don't belonged or never have belonged to vm
then if you connect that up and clone it yes you are obtained there service illegally
but when they brick one that legaly belongs too you and not vm
Then they are guilty of criminal damame to that modem and breatching the computer missuse act by hacking it without you permition.
making you guity of nick broard band and vm of the above now do you get me.
We have cloned, reprogrammed, modded modems. What is a subbed modem?
Is it a legit with subscription modem?
Oh really?
http://www.uk-legislation.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1997/1997004.htm
And you will find that this act covers......anyone?
Electronic communication devices connected to a telecommunications network.
i know what your saying and ultimatly your right, but this is one of the grey areas where it is not illegal to sell a modem or buy a modem but it is illegal to plug it in!!!! so yes most people must agree why would you buy a device that has only one purpose, and that purpose is illegal
(i confuse myself sometimes)
papa smurf
25-10-2007, 17:20
no no no tonto you misunderstand what im saying try to keep up m8
I know is ilegal to conect the modem and rob you free broard band
yes this is very illegal
what i was saying that most modems were the property of ntl/vm and they can do what the hell they like with them ie most of em sold on ebay
but there are place you can buy cable modems legally and own them legally that don't belonged or never have belonged to vm
then if you connect that up and clone it yes you are obtained there service illegally
but when they brick one that legaly belongs too you and not vm
Then they are guilty of criminal damame to that modem and breatching the computer missuse act by hacking it without you permition.
making you guity of nick broard band and vm of the above now do you get me.
love to see you explain that to a judge:p:
Exactly - as many have said VM paid for the network - they own it. If you breach the agreement you made when you signed up by connecting unsanctioned equipment to the network then VM cannot be held responsible for what happens to it.
While I agree that VM probably actually don't care about the 20MB MrClone is getting compared to the 2MB he's paying for, what they DO care about is the other 10 customers on the same point in the network who now get crap service because of his 1/2/however many modems. Those are 10 paying customers generating more revenue (probably each of them individually too) than he is. The effect of 10 customers also making recommendations to friends/family for or against VM based on the service they are receiving that's been degraded by MrClone would also be of much more interest then the loss of a bit of bandwidth. They're not going for him because of the bandwidth he's stealing - they're going for him because of the impact he has on their business as a result of it.
The intelligent (and I say that seriously not sarcastically) cloners seem to forget that VM (like any telecoms company) engineer their network based on a combination of the current customer based and planned expansion. If they lose capacity because of people stealing it then their calculations go out the window and paying customers suffer. We're long past the days of "free" bandwidth when telecoms companies had more kit than they knew what to do with - it all costs them money and as a business they need to account for that cost and make it worth something.
current customer based and planned expansion.
that the flipping point they have never never ever had enought bandwith for there planed expantion.
thats the whole point m8 there were doing the same **** long before the clones got well known.
they have been over subcriped yet still contiued to add faster packages and more customers
and they couldent add up and plan it right.
By connecting A modem of ANY DESCRIPTION to the network owned by VIRGIN MEDIA, you agree to follow the following terms:
http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/legal/oncable/terms.html
Especially:
"You agree to take responsibility for all liabilities, claims and losses which are in any way connected with misusing the services supplied to you under this agreement, or with getting our services without our permission, and to fully repay us if we suffer any costs or losses of this kind. This also applies if you do not meet your responsibilities under this section D."
Which means, Virgin are fully within their legal rights to do whatever the hell they want to you, if your misusing the services, and your to blame for doing so, and they can charge you for all the services you stole.
"We will not be liable in any way for any loss or damage which is caused to your own equipment arising as a result of its use with our equipment. We will not be liable for any loss of or damage to any additional equipment. We have the right to charge you for any replacement additional equipment. "
Any damaage caused to your equipment is your own fault.
Yeah, but they shouldn't be connected to the network - so I doubt VM can be blamed for breaking them
not if its an acident by to brick them they have too deliberatly hack in to them and deliberatly damage them.
not if its an acident by to brick them they have too deliberatly hack in to them and deliberatly damage them.
See above post mr clone. They have full legal right to do so, and all blame is offloaded to you for any damage caused.
MovedGoalPosts
25-10-2007, 17:24
I find it quite laughable that someone who actively seeks to disrupt websites and computer users then bleats when he finds the tables turned on him.
I find it quite laughable that someone who actively seeks to disrupt websites and computer users then bleats when he finds the tables turned on him.
Indeed :D
Whehey! Mr Angry is here! :D :D :D
We have cloned, reprogrammed, modded modems. What is a subbed modem?
Is it a legit with subscription modem?
come on now keep up!!
and yes to your question
I hope you all get caught and put in jail. Bloody spongers. :mad:
I find it quite laughable that someone who actively seeks to disrupt websites and computer users then bleats when he finds the tables turned on him.
who is disruping web site and computer users
are you refering to me ?
if so how have the tables been tured on me ?
Im not with you m8
---------- Post added at 16:31 ---------- Previous post was at 16:29 ----------
come on now keep up!!
and yes to your question
subcribed ie payed for modem
brundles
25-10-2007, 17:33
current customer based and planned expansion.
that the flipping point they have never never ever had enought bandwith for there planed expantion.
thats the whole point m8 there were doing the same **** long before the clones got well known.
they have been over subcriped yet still contiued to add faster packages and more customers
and they couldent add up and plan it right.
I'm not arguing whether they were over subbing the network or if they had the bandwidth just outlining the business case for them going after you. And actually, the worse their network gets the more they will invest to retrieve their bandwidth for their customers.
Explaining to their shareholders the need to spend money for additional bandwidth when they need it is one thing, but explaining to the shareholders they need to spend money on additional bandwidth while letting a large number of people leach away what they have just won't fly.
See above post mr clone. They have full legal right to do so, and all blame is offloaded to you for any damage caused.
that the terms and condition for a subscribed user
what id the cloner has never signed a contract or subscribed to vm ?
they are certainly not bind ed buy terms and condition to a civil contract they have never signed.
sorry to poor water on your bonfire m8.
---------- Post added at 16:36 ---------- Previous post was at 16:35 ----------
love to see you explain that to a judge:p:
I was a barister freind that pointed it out too me. :D:D:D
After reading the last few pages it seems I need to remind people that personal insults/comments are not permitted against any members.
Technically speaking parts are the contract you accept by plugging a modem into the network.
true but they have to prove beyond all resonable dout who pluged it in
---------- Post added at 16:39 ---------- Previous post was at 16:38 ----------
After reading the last few pages it seems I need to remind people that personal insults/comments are not permitted against any members.
Thank you for that Paul M
but there are place you can buy cable modems legally and own them legally that don't belonged or never have belonged to vm
then if you connect that up and clone it yes you are obtained there service illegally
Well if you bothered to read the act you would have realised that:
Subsection (2) below applies if a person has in his custody or under his control anything which may be used for the purpose of obtaining, or for a purpose connected with the obtaining of, a service to which section 42(1) above applies.
(2) If the person intendsâ€â€
(a) to use the thingâ€â€
(i) to obtain such a service dishonestly, or
(ii) for a purpose connected with the dishonest obtaining of such a service,
(b) dishonestly to allow the thing to be used to obtain such a service, or
(c) to allow the thing to be used for a purpose connected with the dishonest obtaining of such a service,
he shall be guilty of an offence.
Now, at what point is it legal for you to have in your possesion any equipment that if connected to a network in the UK would defraud that network of service?
brundles
25-10-2007, 17:44
true but they have to prove beyond all resonable dout who pluged it in
Not really - the account holder for the house (whether it be TV or BB - I'm assuming you need at least one of them to steal the BB) is responsible for what happens to the connection and what gets connected to it. That's what they sign up for. If you plug a dodgy modem to your mates BB connection (for example) it's his responsibility that your dodgy modem got bricked.
Not really - the account holder for the house (whether it be TV or BB - I'm assuming you need at least one of them to steal the BB) is responsible for what happens to the connection and what gets connected to it. That's what they sign up for. If you plug a dodgy modem to your mates BB connection (for example) it's his responsibility that your dodgy modem got bricked.
I'm assuming you need at least one of them to steal the BB
err no you dont m8 you can steal tv and BB without signing up for anything.
---------- Post added at 16:50 ---------- Previous post was at 16:46 ----------
Well if you bothered to read the act you would have realised that:
Subsection (2) below applies if a person has in his custody or under his control anything which may be used for the purpose of obtaining, or for a purpose connected with the obtaining of, a service to which section 42(1) above applies.
(2) If the person intendsâ€â€
(a) to use the thingâ€â€
(i) to obtain such a service dishonestly, or
(ii) for a purpose connected with the dishonest obtaining of such a service,
(b) dishonestly to allow the thing to be used to obtain such a service, or
(c) to allow the thing to be used for a purpose connected with the dishonest obtaining of such a service,
he shall be guilty of an offence.
Now, at what point is it legal for you to have in your possesion any equipment that if connected to a network in the UK would defraud that network of service?
go back and read my post I never said it was legal to conect it I agree It ilegal
iv explaind a number i times m8 already you not talking about the same thing I am m8
Coggy gets out deckchair and puts popcorn in the microwave...:)
Oh and before some clone troll tells me to make a proper contribution to this thread I suggest they make a contribution to VM for the use of their service first. I've done so and I've every right to post what I like here provided I follow the T&Cs of CF and the AUP of VM. ;)
The state of play appears to be:
*NTL is killing clones all over the country at the moment
*NTl started killing Ambit 250s and now there are reports of killing 200s
*un-bricking only works for some cloners
* cloners now know how to block NTL's attack
*there are reports that legit modems have been bricked by NTL too
So, to further clarify MrClone's proposition that if VM brick a modem that is not their property, but is plugged into their network, they have committed a crime - does that mean if the police use a stinger (not the ground-to-air kind :D, but it's a thought) to stop someone who is breaking the law by dangerous driving (in their own car), the police can be prosecuted for criminal damage? ;)
The state of play appear to be:
*NTL are killing clones all over the country at the moment
*NTl started killing Ambit 250s and now there are reports of killing 200s
*un-bricking only works for some
* cloners now know how to block NTL's attack
*there are reports that legit modems have been bricked by NTL too
Last one, im sure if you call CS they might sort you out :)
Others, they are trialing on 250s first? Well I didnt know that :P I presume that includes 255s.
martsmall
25-10-2007, 17:56
The state of play appears to be:
*there are reports that legit modems have been bricked by NTL too
so legit users have 2 spend 4ever on 2 customer support to get thier legit modem sorted & prob end up being given the run around as most do
damn virginmedia is great :dozey:
so legit users have 2 spend 4ever on 2 customer support to get thier legit modem sorted & prob end up being given the run around as most do
damn virginmedia is great :dozey:
Maybe there is an automated thing
"Welcome to Virgin Media Modem Unbricking..."
Last one, im sure if you call CS they might sort you out :)
Others, they are trialing on 250s first? Well I didnt know that :P I presume that includes 255s.
255`s are basicly 250`s painted blacl with virgin wrote on them and the usb port removed too shave a few pence of the manerfaturing cost there the same modem basicly.
andygrif
25-10-2007, 18:00
Interesting thread...it is a shame howver that it's decended into silly squabbles and mud-sliging but I guess that's the nature of the beast in this instance.
Taking a modem and modifying it any way is illegal. The modems are property of Virgin Media, and thus modifying them is classed as Damage to Property.
End of story.
Not quite. I own a Motorola Surfboard. I don't have any cable services, but I own one from when I did, and I bought it from Action (I think) as told to do from NTL as was.
So I can do whatever i like to it, put a neon beacon on top, smash it to little bits, whatever.
However what I CAN'T do is connect it to Virgin's system and stay on the right side of the law.
I think someone previously (in an attempt to have a sensible discussion) made reference to government laws requiring ISPs to keep records of its customers.
Taking this point to the next level, do we think that people who are here to do us no good (drugs gangs, people traffickers, and dare I say the odd terrorist group or two) might be obtaining their internet connections in such a way, so therefore I would argue that it is not only in Virgin's commercial interest to clamp down on such people, but it is there moral and probably legal obligation to do so too, in the interests of all of our security.
but when they brick one that legaly belongs too you and not vm
Then they are guilty of criminal damame to that modem and breatching the computer missuse act by hacking it without you permition.
making you guity of nick broard band and vm of the above now do you get me.
I am not going to get into discussions about justification etc, I think everyone's done that to death already...but I am sure we can have a sensible discussion without resorting to being on higher ground than the other....
So whilst I am not a lawyer, I would offer up a defence that if someone breaks into my house then I am legally permitted to use 'reasonable force' to stop that person from doing so or inflicting damage on anything or anyone in it.
In the same manner, I would think that the law would possibly suggest that Virgin are permitted to stop someone with a hacked modem from accessing their network by using means considered reasonable (by the old man on the Clappham Omnibus).
Given that, should you choose to proscecute Virgin for 'damaging' your modem you would be extremely likely to be procescuted yourself for a whole number of offences, including accessing their network but also modifying the firmware of the modem which is not permitted.
Also, given that there is only really one network you can access in the UK with a cable modem then having it 'bricked-up' is not really going to inconveniece anyone acting legitimately.
Hope we can continue to discuss things reasonably...
Not really - the account holder for the house (whether it be TV or BB - I'm assuming you need at least one of them to steal the BB) is responsible for what happens to the connection and what gets connected to it. That's what they sign up for. If you plug a dodgy modem to your mates BB connection (for example) it's his responsibility that your dodgy modem got bricked.
Thats ignorant and naive. Any peson on here with broadband could end up being cloned and that includes me you or any other honest virgin user.
Its a major worry somethings vm old ntl are guilty off is not being prompt collection old boxes when the person no longer needed them. But the real guilt goes to all those stupid idiots who sold NTL/virgin/telewest property on Ebay.
Now we have hit a massive issue with cloning and dodgy gear hogging bandwidths and stealing money from us all and ripping of virgin. God knows how many are actually out there I could not even hazard a guess.
So, to further clarify MrClone's proposition that if VM brick a modem that is not their property, but is plugged into their network, they have committed a crime - does that mean if the police use a stinger (not the ground-to-air kind :D, but it's a thought) to stop someone who is breaking the law by dangerous driving (in their own car), the police can be prosecuted for criminal damage? ;)
Menezes come to mind...
I hate analogies, but imagine you were using the hosepipe during the hose pipe ban, the Leeds water company decides to increase your water pressure tenfold to blew your tap. Childish, no? Legal or illegal i dunno
Thats ignorant and naive. Any peson on here with broadband could end up being cloned and that includes me you or any other honest virgin user.
Its a major worry somethings vm old ntl are guilty off is not being prompt collection old boxes when the person no longer needed them. But the real guilt goes to all those stupid idiots who sold NTL/virgin/telewest property on Ebay.
Now we have hit a massive issue with cloning and dodgy gear hogging bandwidths and stealing money from us all and ripping of virgin. God knows how many are actually out there I could not even hazard a guess.
merlin m8 being cloned wont afect you any way it wont afect your down load limets
they cant blame you for anything vm can tell you aint done anything wroght
only affect the network in same way as addin another legal modem
you will have to take my word for this as i cant explain in detail as it would break the forum rules and give out too many detail about how cloneing works
belive it or not us lot dont want the morons floging cloned modems too know how to do it eather.
merlin m8 being cloned wont afect you any way it wont afect your down load limets
I'm sorry, but that is a complete and utter load of tosh.
If you have an over subscribed uBR because of thieving people stealing bandwidth, using up download resource, how on earth will it not affect paying customers on that uBR?
With respect, your knowledge of Broadband Internet Networking is worse than your typing.
Just think about it for one minute, if it wasn't hogging resources, why are we talking about Virgin's action to cancel out the cloned modems?
Right you are. But you never know, some people just defy logic :P
Not for long they don't.They may possibly deny it though.;)
merlin m8 being cloned wont afect you any way it wont afect your down load limets
they cant blame you for anything vm can tell you aint done anything wroght
only affect the network in same way as addin another legal modem
you will have to take my word for this as i cant explain in detail as it would break the forum rules and give out too many detail about how cloneing works
belive it or not us lot dont want the morons floging cloned modems too know how to do it eather.
I am sure this does effect where I live really badly at times broadband is at crawl why do you think fair use has been introduced as the bandwidth near meltdown. It effects me financially as no longer I get bandwidth I have subscribed to 24 hours a day. I cannot download at peak or stream as virgin only allows 350mb limits from 4pm-12. Yes I can go over but why should I have to change my habits because of cloners/freeloaders. I would not be suprised prices are likely to increase to cover lost earnings so again honest users are hit.
Not for long they don't.They may possibly deny it though.;)
Against logic, there is no armour like ignorance...... ;)
I'm sorry, but that is a complete and utter load of tosh.
If you have an over subscribed uBR because of thieving people stealing bandwidth, using up download resource, how on earth will it not affect paying customers on that uBR?
With respect, your knowledge of Broadband Internet Networking is worse than your typing.
Just think about it for one minute, if it wasn't hogging resources, why are we talking about Virgin's action to cancel out the cloned modems?
read it again m8 I said what you are say and it will only have that affect and with that I agree with you
what I am explaining for the less clued up net uses
as some OF them have the idea that if there cloned then the clone will use up there bandwidth and they will get traffic shaped. when they haven't used there allowance
others i have seen are under the impression that they may get blamed for what the clone does
all I am doing I pointing out the misconceptions out they have and try to belay there unfounded fears.
what's wrong with that m8.
---------- Post added at 17:26 ---------- Previous post was at 17:24 ----------
Don't tell me honour amongst thieves :LOL:
no just were in it for the challenge the fun and a bit of free broadband
not to make money
and those that use out work to make cash **** it up for us as well as you
we don't put a dent in vm pocket the leaching dealers do.
---------- Post added at 17:29 ---------- Previous post was at 17:26 ----------
Don't tell me honour amongst thieves :LOL:
no just were in it for th chalange the fun and a bit of free broard band
not to make money
and those that use out work to make cash **** it up for us as well as you
we dont put a dent in vm pocket the leaching dealers do.
That's it..keep repeating something enough times and you may believe it's true.;)
---------- Post added at 17:26 ---------- Previous post was at 17:24 ----------
no just were in it for the challenge the fun and a bit of free broadband
not to make money
and those that use out work to make cash **** it up for us as well as you
we don't put a dent in vm pocket the leaching dealers do.
You mean Stolen Broadband surely?
Go on, prove that your a decent guy, start paying for your services.
Oh so lets see, stealing services i.e. not paying for them
e.g. 3x20mb -> 3x37 = £111.
Thats £111 a month your stealing.
And some people will do the same, some will do more.
We are probably looking into the thousands.
So lets see, probably not a big dent, but still a dent.
you for got the 3 digital stb`s that i got
and all my friend I hooked up on I five finger discount too :D:D:D
---------- Post added at 17:38 ---------- Previous post was at 17:36 ----------
You mean Stolen Broadband surely?
Go on, prove that your a decent guy, start paying for your services.
Im a decent guy but?
I care about as much for VM as the customer service does for there subcribers
or witch aint alot.
Well then, show some common decency. Because the only people your making happy are yourself and other cloners.
If your going to go around cloning, we might as well report you for theft of service, so think about it...
And ill have you know that some of the CS staff are actually very good. I did have to call them up once, problem solved in 5 mins.
Well then, show some common decency. Because the only people your making happy are yourself and other cloners.
If your going to go around cloning, we might as well report you for theft of service, so think about it...
And ill have you know that some of the CS staff are actually very good. I did have to call them up once, problem solved in 5 mins.
and ? like Id be posting here about if I was worred m8, I ask you.
hello my name is raja
I have no signal need a tec out
what operatin system are you running
whats that got to do with it
what operatin system are you running
on what computer ?
what operatin system are you running
on what computer I got 8
what operatin system are you running
on what computer I got 8
the one conectedt to the internet
there all conectedt to the internet
do you mean the one conected to the modem ?
what operatin system are you running
linux
what is that
for **** sake stope reading the ****ing script and send a frigging tec out there ain't a ****ing signal for the modem to lock on
I send you new modem
look hear rarja the ****ing modems fine there no blood signal the modem wont workie with signal
send a bloody tec out
no I send modem you modems broke
hang up give
oh **** ill walk down the cab and fix my self the kids riped the door off 6 mouths ago and vm never bother fixing it and unscrew the cat line and stick it on the top tap
problem solved
yep very helpfull
I personally wont, since i do not have access to the information I need, but I can tell you, there will be some out there in the world who will.
It has been done before, see the thread on upload STM.
then ur a member of a very exclusive club cause not many can claim that 1
Ooh, it was a long time ago now, I got sent to British CS :D
brundles
25-10-2007, 18:47
what I am explaining for the less clued up net uses
as some OF them have the idea that if there cloned then the clone will use up there bandwidth and they will get traffic shaped. when they haven't used there allowance
others i have seen are under the impression that they may get blamed for what the clone does
all I am doing I pointing out the misconceptions out they have and try to belay there unfounded fears.
Fair enough. It doesn't cause me to get STM'd and I won't get arrested for you hacking into whatever government database you fancy.
You agree that those living in the same vicinity as you paying for service and getting ****e speeds are your fault because you're stealing all the bandwidth available for that area though?
You agree that those living in the same vicinity as you paying for service and getting ****e speeds are your fault because you're stealing all the bandwidth available for that area though?
No of course not. Thats VM's fault for not setting aside 150% more bandwidth than there are paying customers just so some people can get their fix of binaries quickly. :rolleyes:
handyman
25-10-2007, 19:06
Best way to stop the cloners is for someone to do a proper cab audit against subs. I'll happily volunteer to do a street by street check of subs properties and I bet it wont take long to stop the problem.
Say if Virgin want to fund this sort of activity It would not take long. (PM me if your from Virgin and I'll do it or speak to a mod, several have my contact details).
Quick cab audit. Followed by a disconnection of the Virgin drop cables that don't have any services. Then do a door to door check explaining your an Virgin tech in the area and can you just nip in to run a test. Be good to run it during the night to catch people in however also good during the day whilst Johnny Jnr Cloner is at college and his mum is in, no doubt she'd happily let you look the entire internal network up and down to find the modems.
handyman
25-10-2007, 19:15
yes if there had ever been enoutgh bandwith for the arear in the first place.
of witch there want.
Shows how little you know really.
About 5% of the users use the majority of the available bandwidth. The majority of those are downloading heavily (apps, warez, dvds etc).
Since they are already downloading illegally then you'd imagine that they would be prime suspects for running cloned modems as well.
Not that I'm saying all cloned modems are going to be used for heavy downloading, I'd imagine those sold down the pub to people with little pc knowledge won't see much more than light Internet and email action.
Still at the end of the day if Virgin want them removing from the network there is not a right lot you'll be able to do to stop them trying.
Be sport, use some of the bandwidth your stealing and download Google task bar and use the spell checker function.
Best way to stop the cloners is for someone to do a proper cab audit against subs. I'll happily volunteer to do a street by street check of subs properties and I bet it wont take long to stop the problem.
Say if Virgin want to fund this sort of activity It would not take long. (PM me if your from Virgin and I'll do it or speak to a mod, several have my contact details).
Quick cab audit. Followed by a disconnection of the Virgin drop cables that don't have any services. Then do a door to door check explaining your an Virgin tech in the area and can you just nip in to run a test. Be good to run it during the night to catch people in however also good during the day whilst Johnny Jnr Cloner is at college and his mum is in, no doubt she'd happily let you look the entire internal network up and down to find the modems.
your theory is correct the practice is totally different in house techs have had there numbers cut year on year ......now the new recruitment policy is to get new staff at £17k p/a .
and you know what they say about paying peanuts/monkeys
handyman
25-10-2007, 19:18
what to stop them tell mr cable tec to f off. and tell to make an apointment as were busy now and unplug that day
all way worth swaping a few cables around down the street to confuse as well
Simple any people refusing to let the tech have access get the drop cable disconnected. And if they have no active services against the property then they won't mind a copper having a look will they ;-)
As for how long I've been on the net, it certainly was not around in 1975/6 when I had a mouthful full of momma Handyman's boobs. Unless your talking about Bulletin boards but they were not really the net now were they?
Swapping cables around would not confuse me ;-) A cable has a start and a end and its pretty easy to work out.
Simple any people refusing to let the tech have access get the drop cable disconnected. And if they have no active services against the property then they won't mind a copper having a look will they ;-)
and again i agree with the theory but the police are not interested!!
Simple any people refusing to let the tech have access get the drop cable disconnected. And if they have no active services against the property then they won't mind a copper having a look will they ;-)
thatwould requier a warrent im shaw by the time they got one they wouldent find anything pluged in.
Mr Angry
25-10-2007, 19:20
Perhaps it's just me....but I'd rather sit and listen to "Raja" read a script all night than try and wade through some of what passes for written English by certain members posting in this thread.
Shows how little you know really.
About 5% of the users use the majority of the available bandwidth. The majority of those are downloading heavily (apps, warez, dvds etc).
Since they are already downloading illegally then you'd imagine that they would be prime suspects for running cloned modems as well.
Not that I'm saying all cloned modems are going to be used for heavy downloading, I'd imagine those sold down the pub to people with little pc knowledge won't see much more than light Internet and email action.
Sorry can't really agree with most of that. Still I'm sure you'll get a majority backing.;)
handyman
25-10-2007, 19:24
your theory is correct the practice is totally different in house techs have had there numbers cut year on year ......now the new recruitment policy is to get new staff at £17k p/a .
and you know what they say about paying peanuts/monkeys
I'm more talking about setting up a company paid by the Cloner removed than a £17k tech.
handyman
25-10-2007, 19:27
thatwould requier a warrent im shaw by the time they got one they wouldent find anything pluged in.
Does not take a warrant to re lable up a cab now does it ;-)
All those black cables, how are you going to know which one is yours again?
Dude, get a life...
Not quite, it's the opposite. It's people that basically get upset over something / subject like this and that can't stop themselves posting/replying are the ones that are putting fuel onto the fire here. I can't see who the real trolls are here imo.
handyman
25-10-2007, 19:33
you never even seen in side a street box have you ?
I've seen many, some good some bad, some big some small.
Lots and lots of type 2, plenty of type 3.
More on a computer screen than in real life I have to admit.
Ok. back onto topic please
hi people, so has the clone thing been stopped now?
No, it has not stopped. Cloners can now stop NTL zapping their modems.
Quite a few modems have been bricked. Resetting (un-bricking) was only partially successful so far.
Dealers have a large stock of modems, they are waiting for the new hack and they will flog them to replace the bricked ones. I expect the price to go up. But the supplies are strong, thousands are available
will my speeds increase?
No, only if get few clones :)
---------- Post added at 20:00 ---------- Previous post was at 19:57 ----------
HAXX888: I love your avatar :D
handyman
25-10-2007, 20:01
Flame you, why bother.
Stop you from doing what your doing then yes I would like to.
The only reason your here is because the bean counters at Virgin are not bothered if 1000 people leave to go to sky or a 1000 people steal the broadband. In the grand scheme of things then can't see the impact on the bottom line. For the staff and for the paying customers its a different matter.
Your able to do what you are doing not because its impossible to stop you, it's more likely the lack of support from the top brass for funding your removal from the network.
By turning a blind eye or by not giving this full support they are effectively allowing a cottage industry to start up and gain momentum.
I've removed a few posts that IMO were giving a bit more away than they should.
I've removed a few posts that IMO were giving a bit more away than they should.
that explains it...thought i was going daft:p:......or dafter!!
I hate virgin media. I dont belive for one min, that a few hacker are causeing all the claimed slow speed. Its just rubish to belive that.
Well, you are right, not the "hackers" as you put them. They only play their part.
You see, there are quite a few of the, with lots of modems each, ammounting to lots of bandwidth to pull from the network, making less for everyone else.
However, there are also issues with oversubscription, and unreliable equipment.
Everything plays its part :)
I see so you admit that, my 10 hacked modems dont cause all the slow speeds then.
Ah but you see, it depends on the area
in some areas its just hacked modems
in some its just bad ubrs.
I was generalizing.
I've closed this thread for a bit of pruning to remove some off-topic posts.
When it re-opens any off-topic posts will be removed without warning and the poster given formal warnings
---
It's now re-open after a number of posts were removed. I really don't want to remove any more
Thanks!
Anyway, it seems this has made its way onto the broadband discussion NG. It sounds like people have had modems stolen. :confused:
Ah but you see, it depends on the area
in some areas its just hacked modems
in some its just bad ubrs.
I was generalizing.
So what your saying is that Virgin are badly oversubcribed in some areas and in them ares then clones its not slowing your speed?
So what your saying is that Virgin are badly oversubcribed in some areas and in them ares then clones its not slowing your speed?
I'm not trying to be funny, but without punctuation, that can be interpreted in a number of ways - it may help if you punctuate the above post.
I'm not trying to be funny, but without punctuation, that can be interpreted in a number of ways - it may help if you punctuate the above post.
I think it was meant to mean:
There are some oversubscribed areas where the clones make no difference to your operating speed (which is actually impossible to tell unless you remove one or the other).
and ? like Id be posting here about if I was worred m8, I ask you.
hello my name is raja
I have no signal need a tec out
what operatin system are you running
whats that got to do with it
what operatin system are you running
on what computer ?
what operatin system are you running
on what computer I got 8
what operatin system are you running
on what computer I got 8
the one conectedt to the internet
there all conectedt to the internet
do you mean the one conected to the modem ?
what operatin system are you running
linux
what is that
for **** sake stope reading the ****ing script and send a frigging tec out there ain't a ****ing signal for the modem to lock on
I send you new modem
look hear rarja the ****ing modems fine there no blood signal the modem wont workie with signal
send a bloody tec out
no I send modem you modems broke
hang up give
oh **** ill walk down the cab and fix my self the kids riped the door off 6 mouths ago and vm never bother fixing it and unscrew the cat line and stick it on the top tap
problem solved
yep very helpfull
Interesting terminology being used in reference to the lower value tap port, top tap is used around where i work, and i know it's not a reference used alot in the rest of VM,(i'm talking about install's, service, networks here). I'll have to keep a look out for you.
Or of course it might just be pure coincidence, or someone on the site you frequent,uses that reference works for VM or a contractor.mmmm
martsmall
25-10-2007, 22:10
either way u look @ it vm have got it wrong & wasted rescources that they could put in2 something else ( like customer support ) imo that better ?
OK, we're bored playing with the trolls now. Time to close the thread and start hitting the ban button.
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