Smoke alarms

[greencreeper]

They were selling them off at 1/2 price at B&Q, so I bought 4 - 1x basic ionisation, 2x ionisation with light and hush button, and 1x photoelectric. I'm just pondering where to put them. There's not a lot of detailed guidance available on the siting of alarms. I guess I ought to have one on each floor. The kitchen is a problem because of the low ceiling. I was wondering about putting one of the hush ones at the top of the stairs leading from the kitchen? I could then put the basic one in the living room. The photoelectric would be good outside the main bedroom - but I worry about the bathroom being too close. The final one would go in the attic, on the hallway ceiling.

I'm also wondering about the different sorts of fire - flaming v slow burning. Is a flaming fire more common in a kitchen, say?? And how does that affect the choice and placement of a smoke alarm.

The two attic bedrooms have smoke alarms, but they're ancient things, and covered in paint. No batteries neither. I plan on throwing them.

[Mick Fisher]

Why not see if you can get some advice from your local fire brigade.

[Tinky]

Thanks gc for a timely reminder that I ought to check the batteries in my smoke alarm; a task, I suspect a few of us don't do often enough! :tu:

[iglu]

They were selling them off at 1/2 price at B&Q, so I bought 4 - 1x basic ionisation, 2x ionisation with light and hush button, and 1x photoelectric. I'm just pondering where to put them. There's not a lot of detailed guidance available on the siting of alarms. I guess I ought to have one on each floor. The kitchen is a problem because of the low ceiling. I was wondering about putting one of the hush ones at the top of the stairs leading from the kitchen? I could then put the basic one in the living room. The photoelectric would be good outside the main bedroom - but I worry about the bathroom being too close. The final one would go in the attic, on the hallway ceiling.

I'm also wondering about the different sorts of fire - flaming v slow burning. Is a flaming fire more common in a kitchen, say?? And how does that affect the choice and placement of a smoke alarm.

The two attic bedrooms have smoke alarms, but they're ancient things, and covered in paint. No batteries neither. I plan on throwing them.

The ones with the lights should be at the stairs/corridors.

Do you use gas fires/ gas central heating? If yes, then you should go back to B&Q and get a CO detector too! they are a bit expensive but essential...

[Scarlett]

I have alarms for both types of fire next to each other mainly over the electrical gear (computers and the tv setup) and also just outside of the kitchen. The bedrooms have just the fast burning ones. We also have both types at the top of the stairs. Finally we have 2 electircal CO2 detectors, one in the kitchen and one near the boiler. Be carful about putting smoke alarms too close to the bathroom (as the steam can set them off) and obviously the kitchen (because just cooking something on the grill is usually enough to set them off.)

The ones with lights and the hush button should go near the kitchen and probably at the top of the stairs. One for your bedroom and then perhaps look to see where there is a large amount of electical goods (e.g. tv, dvd etc.) and put it up over that.

Once they're in, test them weekly. You would also do good to have a think about how you would get out of your house if there was a fire, where are the keys to the doors? how would you manage if the stairs were blocked? etc.

[Hom3r]

You can buy smoke alarms specifically for kitchen & bathrooms

[pop80_uk]

I urge everyone to buy check and double check you fire alarm! Last week we were happily sitting in our spare room on the PC when we heard a fire engine, we looked out the window and the house just across the way was ablaze! Turns out the 7 year old had been playing with a candle in the house and the fire start.
Nightmare situation.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/pop80_uk/DSCF0706Small.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/pop80_uk/DSCF0703Small.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/pop80_uk/DSCF0711Small.jpg

[Hom3r]

pop80_uk (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/members/5498.html) vbmenu_register("postmenu_34314512", true);

Where the occupants OK?

[pop80_uk]

pop80_uk (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/members/5498.html) vbmenu_register("postmenu_34314512", true);

Where the occupants OK?

Yup they escaped un-hurt and I think the whole area called the fire service at some point, 3 fire engines turned up, 2 ambluances and 11 (yes 11) police cars!!

[Matthew]

Have a look here (http://www.fireservice.co.uk/safety/smokealarms.php). After reading that and you are still not sure ring your location fire station up or community fire safety office as they call them now and arrange a home fire safety check. If you are not sure who to call let me know where roughly you live and I will give you a number to ring.

[yesman]

They were selling them off at 1/2 price at B&Q, so I bought 4 - 1x basic ionisation, 2x ionisation with light and hush button, and 1x photoelectric. I'm just pondering where to put them. There's not a lot of detailed guidance available on the siting of alarms. I guess I ought to have one on each floor. The kitchen is a problem because of the low ceiling. I was wondering about putting one of the hush ones at the top of the stairs leading from the kitchen? I could then put the basic one in the living room. The photoelectric would be good outside the main bedroom - but I worry about the bathroom being too close. The final one would go in the attic, on the hallway ceiling.

I'm also wondering about the different sorts of fire - flaming v slow burning. Is a flaming fire more common in a kitchen, say?? And how does that affect the choice and placement of a smoke alarm.

The two attic bedrooms have smoke alarms, but they're ancient things, and covered in paint. No batteries neither. I plan on throwing them.

Battery smoke alarms are better than nothing, but really ought to be the hard wired interlinked type, interlinked either by hard wiring, or by a radio frequency.

http://www.aico.co.uk/downloads/tech_guide.pdf

Siting is important also. Smoke detectors on a landing should not be further than 3 metres from any bedroom door, this is to ensure that audibility is achieved at the bedhead, if you have fire doors in the property that have a intumescent(sp) strip, it is probably best to site alarms within the bedrooms.

Always fit a heat detector in the kitchen, and never put a smoke alarm in the bathroom.

http://www.aico.co.uk/smoke_wiring.htm

[greencreeper]

The ones with the lights should be at the stairs/corridors
Yeah - it would fit with what I intend (cellar/kitchen stairs and upper hallway)

Do you use gas fires/ gas central heating? If yes, then you should go back to B&Q and get a CO detector too! they are a bit expensive but essential...
Way ahead of you :D I've got a battery one - sits next to the phone in the living room. The boiler's in the kitchen, but the alarm came from my parents, who had problems with it going off all the time. They had it sited in an alcove at the side of the fire. So I figured best put it away from anything that might give off a bit of CO as part of its normal operation. Either way, when I open the kitchen door, the fumes from the flue blow in, so it would be bleeping away and driving me nuts if it were in the kitchen. So living room it is.


I have alarms for both types of fire next to each other mainly over the electrical gear (computers and the tv setup) and also just outside of the kitchen. The bedrooms have just the fast burning ones. We also have both types at the top of the stairs. Finally we have 2 electircal CO2 detectors, one in the kitchen and one near the boiler. Be carful about putting smoke alarms too close to the bathroom (as the steam can set them off) and obviously the kitchen (because just cooking something on the grill is usually enough to set them off.)
Crikey! No chance of you not knowing the house is on fire. I wanted to avoid the house bristling with alarms. I figured the photoelectric would be good on the lower hallway because it's in the middle of the house, so would "catch" smoke from downstairs and the bedroom.

You would also do good to have a think about how you would get out of your house if there was a fire, where are the keys to the doors? how would you manage if the stairs were blocked? etc.
At the moment, there is no escape. I'm thinking about investing in a fire extinguisher, so I can fight my way out. Otherwise I'd have to leap out a window and end up a foot shorter.


Battery smoke alarms are better than nothing, but really ought to be the hard wired interlinked type, interlinked either by hard wiring, or by a radio frequency
The hard wired ones are a bit of a nightmare. I was in a flat years ago which had them. The electrician had used the lighting circuit to power them. When I used the grill, they would start beeping. Only solution was to flick the fuse for the lights. I could hush the one in the kitchen but not the one in the hallway. In the end, I pulled the connector out of the hallway one and took the battery out. Just made do with the kitchen one.

Always fit a heat detector in the kitchen
Heat detector :scratch:

[Mr_love_monkey]

The electrician had used the lighting circuit to power them.

The main power ones are usually run from the light circuit.

Go on, call some firemen around - you know you want to! :)

[greencreeper]

The main power ones are usually run from the light circuit
Methinks that's obviously very daft, but hey.

Go on, call some firemen around - you know you want to! :)
I'd end up with the old, hairy ones, with a beer belly :rolleyes:


The links yesman posted advise that optical alarms are best in hallways, whereas the packaging for the optical alarm I have (Kidde) advises that they're best for living rooms :erm: It's not good to have conflicting advise when it comes to safety.

Heat alarms are mains powered, so that rules those out.

There's a problem with the kitchen alarm - where I planned on putting it, the door would smash it off the ceiling :rofl: There's about 1" clearance between the top of the door and the ceiling. There's a sort of second ceiling where the light for the stairs is fitted, but there's not enough room for an alarm. I can't put it on the sloping ceiling - that's apparently very bad, according to yesman's links. So I'm a bit stumped. Probably going to have to be the wall.

[Mr_love_monkey]

Methinks that's obviously very daft, but hey.

why? surely that way there's no need to worry about batteries and so on - I'd have thought that the fact it kept going off with the grill was a sign that it was a rubbish smoke detector, rather than powering from the mains being a bad idea?


I'd end up with the old, hairy ones, with a beer belly :rolleyes:


Don't knock it until you've tried it :)


The links yesman posted advise that optical alarms are best in hallways, whereas the packaging for the optical alarm I have (Kidde) advises that they're best for living rooms :erm: It's not good to have conflicting advise when it comes to safety.

Is yesman not a fireman? (maybe I'm thinking of someone else)

[greencreeper]

why? surely that way there's no need to worry about batteries and so on - I'd have thought that the fact it kept going off with the grill was a sign that it was a rubbish smoke detector, rather than powering from the mains being a bad idea?
Why not wire it on its own circuit, completely independant of any other circuit? Makes more sense to me :erm:


I've bought a micro alarm for kitchen - nothing fancy but its small size makes it easier to fit. I've got an optical one for the study, which has presented another issue - if I have two heights to the ceiling, with a slope between them, where do I put the alarm :scratch:

[Mr_love_monkey]

Why not wire it on its own circuit, completely independant of any other circuit? Makes more sense to me :erm:


ah I see what you were talking about now. certainly starting from scratch wiring it into its own circuit makes perfect sense - however if you are adding it in to an existing setup then following the existing wiring makes sense as its far cheaper

[greencreeper]

Well, they're up and working.

Top of cellar/kitchen steps, on the wall - 1x micro ionisation alarm
Living room - 1x ionisation alarm
Lower landing - 1x optical alarm
Bedroom - 1x ionisation alarm
Upper landing - 1x ionisation alarm
Study - 1x optical alarm

Hopefully that lot should detect any fire and let me know.

[yesman]

why? surely that way there's no need to worry about batteries and so on - I'd have thought that the fact it kept going off with the grill was a sign that it was a rubbish smoke detector, rather than powering from the mains being a bad idea?

Is yesman not a fireman? (maybe I'm thinking of someone else)

You're right, I am not a fireman ;) just a poor sparks :o:

FYI.
The power supply for a smoke alarm system should be derived from the dwelling’s mains electricity supply................If alarm doesn't have a stand by power supply, ie AC ONLY no other electrical equipment should be connected to this circuit. (ie AC only alarms, must only be wired back to main consumer unit on dedicated circuit).

A smoke alarm, or smoke alarm system, that includes a standby power supply or supplies, (ie AC with battery back up), can operate during mains failure. It can therefore be connected to a regularly-used local lighting circuit.

Anyway, as GC has only battery operated detectors all the above does not apply, it's better to have these than nothing at all.

[greencreeper]

Anyway, as GC has only battery operated detectors all the above does not apply, it's better to have these than nothing at all.
Exactly. It would be very difficult to wire the alarms to the mains anyway. These old houses have some very, um, "creative" wiring. There's a fault with the attic light - a neutral or live short. Makes the light flicker when it's turned off. To fix it would mean the floor coming up and the ceiling coming down. Best left alone. Like said - creative wiring.

[yesman]

The new radio linked detectors are a god send.

All that is needed is a Live-Neutral & Earth from the local lighting circuit for each detector, then apply a house code to the detectors and that's it, an interlinked smoke alarm system, the only drawback is that they are slightly more expensive, but that outweighs the cost of interlinking by hard wiring by quite a margin.

http://www.aico.co.uk/smoke_radio.htm

---------- Post added at 20:50 ---------- Previous post was at 20:48 ----------

Exactly. It would be very difficult to wire the alarms to the mains anyway. These old houses have some very, um, "creative" wiring. There's a fault with the attic light - a neutral or live short. Makes the light flicker when it's turned off. To fix it would mean the floor coming up and the ceiling coming down. Best left alone. Like said - creative wiring.

Is this why you fitted the smoke detectors ? :D

Might be a good idea to get the fault fixed GC.

[greencreeper]

Is this why you fitted the smoke detectors ? :D
It was on my mind, yes :D


Might be a good idea to get the fault fixed GC.
It's up to the landlord, who's tighter than a gnat's chuff. I can't see him wanting to take the house apart.

[danielf]

The new radio linked detectors are a god send.

All that is needed is a Live-Neutral & Earth from the local lighting circuit for each detector, then apply a house code to the detectors and that's it, an interlinked smoke alarm system, the only drawback is that they are slightly more expensive, but that outweighs the cost of interlinking by hard wiring by quite a margin.


Why does one want to link the detectors? Is the idea to set them all off when one goes off? I'd consider that a bit of a nightmare. We have one on the stairs that appears to go off when someone in the house thinks of cooking some oven chips. It's more of a food alarm than a smoke alarm really :)

[yesman]

Why does one want to link the detectors? Is the idea to set them all off when one goes off? I'd consider that a bit of a nightmare. We have one on the stairs that appears to go off when someone in the house thinks of cooking some oven chips. It's more of a food alarm than a smoke alarm really :)

Come on Dan, you are more intelligent than that !

They are linked for reasons to me that seem quite obvious.

[greencreeper]

Why does one want to link the detectors? Is the idea to set them all off when one goes off? I'd consider that a bit of a nightmare. We have one on the stairs that appears to go off when someone in the house thinks of cooking some oven chips. It's more of a food alarm than a smoke alarm really :)
I think the idea is that when one foo... smoke alarm goes off, because they all do, there's more chance of you being wrested from the arms of Morpheus. More so if you have an alarm in the bedroom(s). They can be a nuisance. You'd think, with modern technology, they'd make an alarm that didn't go off when gran over does the toast, or when the dog farts.

[danielf]

Come on Dan, you are more intelligent than that !

They are linked for reasons to me that seem quite obvious.

I must be dense today. It was a genuine question...

---------- Post added at 23:00 ---------- Previous post was at 22:53 ----------

I think the idea is that when one foo... smoke alarm goes off, because they all do, there's more chance of you being wrested from the arms of Morpheus. More so if you have an alarm in the bedroom(s). They can be a nuisance. You'd think, with modern technology, they'd make an alarm that didn't go off when gran over does the toast, or when the dog farts.

Thanks, That's what I thought. Does the linked system extend to the hush button?

I do appreciate that for smoke alarms one wants to err on the side of safety, but a 99.9999% false alarm record seems a little over the top to me.:dozey:

[yesman]

I must be dense today. It was a genuine question...

OK.............

The idea of installing linked smoke/heat detectors is for an early alarm in case of a fire................usually at night when you are asleep, not when you are making toast or cooking bacon or whatever.

[danielf]

OK.............

The idea of installing linked smoke/heat detectors is for an early alarm in case of a fire................usually at night when you are asleep, not when you are making toast or cooking bacon or whatever.

Ta. That was what I thought. So does the interlinking extend to the hush button? Because I'd hate to have to go around the house hushing every smoke alarm everytime I switch the oven on. (It's not quite that bad, but you can rest assured the bugger goes off eveytime we use the grill. In fact, it goes off long before the food is done)

[greencreeper]

Ta. That was what I thought. So does the interlinking extend to the hush button? Because I'd hate to have to go around the house hushing every smoke alarm everytime I switch the oven on. (It's not quite that bad, but you can rest assured the bugger goes off eveytime we use the grill. In fact, it goes off long before the food is done)
You might want to try an optical alarm - or move the alarm well away from the kitchen. Failing that, keep the door shut :D

Kidde here - http://www.kiddesafetyeurope.co.uk/utcfs/ws-401/Assets/Smoke%20Alarms/1275h.pdf

Does seem to suggest that if the one that is beeping is hushed, the others will hush (because no alarm is sounding)

Screwfix sell the RF ones - www.screwfix.com

[danielf]

You might want to try an optical alarm - or move the alarm well away from the kitchen. Failing that, keep the door shut :D

I'll look into an optical alarm. Moving it away would pretty much mean moving it into the bedroom. We have one there... I doubt moving it to the study/spare bedroom would add a layer of security.

Door: It's one of them folding type things that feels like it's hard done by for being used..

[yesman]

Ta. That was what I thought. So does the interlinking extend to the hush button? Because I'd hate to have to go around the house hushing every smoke alarm everytime I switch the oven on. (It's not quite that bad, but you can rest assured the bugger goes off eveytime we use the grill. In fact, it goes off long before the food is done)

I guess you have a smoke alarm either in the kitchen or at least a few metres away?
This has always been a problem with cooking tbh, frying, grilling, toasting or whatever.

However, hush buttons are a nuisance as far as regulations are concerned, so it becomes a nightmare for manufacturers and designers to determine what is a nuisance alarm trigger and what isn't, so I guess we will all have to put up with it.

In summary, I suppose if you are cooking and the alarm goes off, it might be a fair guess that you have set it off interlinked or not. If the alarm goes off in the middle of the night, I would assume (unless you know otherwise) you would not be reaching for the "Hush button"...........etc

[danielf]

I guess you have a smoke alarm either in the kitchen or at least a few metres away?
[/quote=yesman]

The alarm is in the staircase. About 5 meters away, 'as the particle flies'.

[quote=yesman]
This has always been a problem with cooking tbh, frying, grilling, toasting or whatever.

However, hush buttons are a nuisance as far as regulations are concerned, so it becomes a nightmare for manufacturers and designers to determine what is a nuisance alarm trigger and what isn't, so I guess we will all have to put up with it.

In summary, I suppose if you are cooking and the alarm goes off, it might be a fair guess that you have set it off interlinked or not. If the alarm goes off in the middle of the night, I would assume (unless you know otherwise) you would not be reaching for the "Hush button"...........etc

I absolutely agree that that we want to err on the side of safety here. I just wish we could cut the number of false alarms.

[greencreeper]

I guess you have a smoke alarm either in the kitchen or at least a few metres away?


The alarm is in the staircase. About 5 meters away, 'as the particle flies'.
Sometimes when my parent's are cooking, the alarm at foot of the stairs will sound. The door is always closed. Sometimes even the kitchen door is closed. The kitchen door opens into the living room - there is no door connecting the kitchen and hallway/stairs. So somehow the "smoke" makes it under two doors :erm:

At the flat that I mentioned, the alarm was well away from the kitchen, in the hallway, around a corner from the kitchen.

[yesman]

Usually smoke alarms do not have to be mounted nearby if there is a HEAT detector within the kitchen if the rooms are contiguous.

Hope that helps.

[keithwalton]

If you find false alarms anoying and like the 'hush' button, try living in a university hall for a while!
My current building consists of two blocks, each block has 4 floors each with 3 flats per floor, so 24 flats in total. each flat has 7 people ...
each individual room has its own ionising detector, each kitchen has a heat sensor and each hall way has another ioniser.
If one out of the 24 flats manages to set of the fire alarm we all have to evacuate the building no matter what time it is!

Thankfully im in a mature block this year and so far whilst i've been in we've only had the alarms go off 3 times and one of those was a drill!

However pretty much every monday, wednesday, friday and saturday one of the other blocks in the complex will have an alarm go off (freshers ay!)

Some of the other blocks have 20 people per flat and around 10 flats in the block all it takes is a student stumbling in drunk going to make some toast under the grill and then going off and doing something else / pass out drunk!

The fire alarm system tho is good and professionally managed, the system does have a direct link to the fire brigade which i believe will put them on standby when the alarms sound but does not dispatch them unless a warden confirms there is actually a fire or a preset time elapses.
The wardens / security are good and are usually at the block before everyone has evacuated it and imediatly check out the flat involved and radio back to reception