View Full Version : Mars bars - Not for vegetarians
Some of the UK's best-selling chocolate bars, such as Mars and Twix, will no longer be suitable for vegetarians.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6653175.stm
I'm not a vegetarian, and I don't eat Mars bars (or any others), but it seems a strange move to me. Why? :confused:
TheBlueRaja
15-05-2007, 11:11
HAHAHAHA!!
Classic move, all those vegetarian girls starved of chocolate.
Im sticking BIG cash on a lot of them caving in - now we will see how much they love the fluffy bunnies.
Delta Whiskey
15-05-2007, 11:15
It can only be on a cost basis, the animal rennet must be significantly cheaper than the vegetarian version.
Why is it strange? They have never pretended to be a manufacturer of vegetarian foods so why do they need to continue to ensure foods that are vegetarian by chance, continue to be so?
I dislike the quote from the veggie in the article, where they start talking about the 'provenance' of food. In his head, it seems, non-vegetarian ingredients are in the same category as non-organic, or GM. Yet that is not a view that is reflected or supported by society at large and it's a little disingenuous of him to imply otherwise.
I don't think this will affect a great many so-called 'vegetarians' - when I was a teenager, almost all the veggies I knew were faddy girls who made grand gestures out of refusing roast beef or chicken. But I'd lay real money on not a single one of them turning down a bar of chocolate just because somewhere down the line, a tiny quantity of the ingredients came from a cow's stomach.
I've always found principled vegetarianism a little strange anyway. If you avoid animal products as a protest (as opposed to dietary reasons), the logical position is full-on veganism. I don't hear the Vegetarian Society whinging about the milk content of the chocolate though.
Urgh the normal source of rennet for vegetarians is fungi or bacteria.
Oh that makes me feel sick. So glad I don't eat mars bars.
Animal rennet comes from the stomach of freshly slaughtered calves.
I've always found principled vegetarianism a little strange anyway. If you avoid animal products as a protest (as opposed to dietary reasons), the logical position is full-on veganism. I don't hear the Vegetarian Society whinging about the milk content of the chocolate though.
There is a marked difference between using products derived from dead animals (meat, leather etc) and using products from live animals (milk etc).
Why is it strange? They have never pretended to be a manufacturer of vegetarian foods so why do they need to continue to ensure foods that are vegetarian by chance, continue to be so?
Obviously, they are not under any obligation to produce products suitable for vegetarians. It just seems strange to me to stop doing so (thereby cutting off part of market for your product). I would think the animal Rennet has to be considerably cheaper for it to be worthwhile.
It also seems to go against the trend for 'clean labelling'. People are becoming more concerned about the food they eat. I don't see this as something that would generally be perceived as a step forward.
Saaf_laandon_mo
15-05-2007, 11:37
HAHAHAHA!!
Classic move, all those vegetarian girls starved of chocolate.
.
As well as muslims too, as the choccy will no longer be deemed halaal.
Watch out for the burning effigies of mars bar products.......:p:
As well as muslims too, as the choccy will no longer be deemed halaal.
Watch out for the burning effigies of mars bar products.......:p:
I suspect Hindus won't be too keen on it either.
Out of interest, does anyone know what percentage of the UK population is vegetarian?
As well as muslims too, as the choccy will no longer be deemed halaal.
Watch out for the burning effigies of mars bar products.......:p:
Out of curiosity, are Mars products actually halaal? I always understood that the product / production line had to be blessed (but I'm happy to accept that I'm wrong :) )
Saaf_laandon_mo
15-05-2007, 11:50
Out of curiosity, are Mars products actually halaal? I always understood that the product / production line had to be blessed (but I'm happy to accept that I'm wrong :) )
For muslims the only stipulation is that the ingredients are halal. The production line should be 'halal' in terms of nothing thats not halal should be allowed to contaminate halal products. Generally most muslims I knowwill eat anything authorised by the vegetarian standards body as being marked as Suitable for vedggies as long as there is no alcohol content. The production line does not need to be blessed.
I think that for Jews (and for the product to be deemed Kosher) the rules are more stricter and I have known them to extend to the production line not being able to run on a Saturday, and Rabbis have been known to bless/check production lines.
Obviously, they are not under any obligation to produce products suitable for vegetarians. It just seems strange to me to stop doing so (thereby cutting off part of market for your product). I would think the animal Rennet has to be considerably cheaper for it to be worthwhile.
It also seems to go against the trend for 'clean labelling'. People are becoming more concerned about the food they eat. I don't see this as something that would generally be perceived as a step forward.
Like the Veg Society you appear to equate public concern over issues of genetic modification, animal welfare and organic production with interest in vegetarianism. I don't think they are in the same category at all.
Labelling something as 'organic' or 'non-GM' or 'free range' definitely appeals to a significant proportion of the market, but does the 'suitable for vegetarians' label have quite the same impact? I don't think so, and clearly Masterfoods doesn't think so either.
I don't think this is a step backwards at all. Those who campaigned for free range, non-GM, organic products appear to have made their case well. Certainly well enough for producers and retailers to take it very seriously. The Vegetarian movement has not made the case for vegetarianism in anything like the same way, which is why I think it's a tad cheeky of them to try to ride on the coat-tails of these other campaigns by attempting to make this an issue of the 'provenance' of the ingredients - as if there is something dirty or unhealthy about ingredients coming from dead animals.
Companies do not generally take such big risks with their core product without being reasonably sure they aren't about to muck it up. Masterfoods clearly doesn't expect sales of the Mars Bar to plummet as a result of this.
Ooh hang on, talking of Kosher, if they're mixing milk with meat, then mars bars wouldn't be kosher!
Depends how rennet is viewed...
There is a marked difference between using products derived from dead animals (meat, leather etc) and using products from live animals (milk etc).
Why is there?
I appreciate that's a nebulous question as people are veggie for all sorts of reasons. That's why I focused on 'principled vegetarianism' in my post rather than on those who have dietary concerns.
If the reason for being a vegetarian have to do with the sanctity of animal life or fears over exploitation, then surely modern factory farming methods should sit very uneasily with a vegetarian even if those methods don't actually involve killing the animal?
Saaf_laandon_mo
15-05-2007, 12:03
Ooh hang on, talking of Kosher, if they're mixing milk with meat, then mars bars wouldn't be kosher!
Depends how rennet is viewed...
I think all these effect products will lose any form of Kosher/Halal credibility as such. My wife bought this story to my attention saying that the advantage of it would be I might lose some weight!
Bit of a mars bar fan are you? :D
Like the Veg Society you appear to equate public concern over issues of genetic modification, animal welfare and organic production with interest in vegetarianism. I don't think they are in the same category at all.
Not really. I just think it's strange to add an animal ingredient (presumably simply for cutting costs) in a product that has been suitable for vegetarians for ages. I do think however, that concern over animal welfare may be an issue here for some of the public. People these days are more interested in the source of animal products. This is just creating a new animal product where it is unclear what the source is.
Labelling something as 'organic' or 'non-GM' or 'free range' definitely appeals to a significant proportion of the market, but does the 'suitable for vegetarians' label have quite the same impact? I don't think so, and clearly Masterfoods doesn't think so either.
So these calfs that kindly supply the Rennet. Are they 'organic'? Chances are they are not.
I don't think this is a step backwards at all. Those who campaigned for free range, non-GM, organic products appear to have made their case well. Certainly well enough for producers and retailers to take it very seriously. The Vegetarian movement has not made the case for vegetarianism in anything like the same way, which is why I think it's a tad cheeky of them to try to ride on the coat-tails of these other campaigns by attempting to make this an issue of the 'provenance' of the ingredients - as if there is something dirty or unhealthy about ingredients coming from dead animals.
It doesn't affect me (as I'm a ferocious consumer of animal products, and hate Mars bars), but I wouldn't call it a step forward either. It just seems unnecessary.
Companies do not generally take such big risks with their core product without being reasonably sure they aren't about to muck it up. Masterfoods clearly doesn't expect sales of the Mars Bar to plummet as a result of this.
I have no doubts about that.
Saaf_laandon_mo
15-05-2007, 12:23
It's not just mars bars though is it? I thought this will apply to their entire chocolate product range. As for sales being effected I dont think this will have a big dip in total sales.
Most vegetarians I know who are vegetarian for non religious reasons are not so strict. They will refuse to eat 'real' meat as such, but are not too fussed with products which, for example have animal fats and gelatine.
The market which will be effected is those buyers that decide what to eat on a religious reason. However I can't see this being a significant percentage of the total sales, and any drop in this figure will more than likely be covered in the increased profit made by switching to non veggy product (assuming thats the reason for the switch).
fireman328
15-05-2007, 13:36
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6653175.stm
I'm not a vegetarian, and I don't eat Mars bars (or any others), but it seems a strange move to me. Why? :confused:
Costs !
lostandconfused
16-05-2007, 10:48
well i havent eaten a mars bar or pretty much any chocolate for years, after reading this article im going to be stocking up at the garage on the way to work later i think:D
Has anyone noticed just how good mars bars become when eaten alongside a Cup of Tea or a nice cold coke? Its really good.
This kinda reminds me of how the whole organic movement & "natural is best" mentality caused some companies to switch from an artificial red colouring to 1 made from bugs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochineal). Those who would choose not to consume products containing it would be well advised to check the ingredients of anything with pink/red colouring [especially sweets & yoghurts, but also coloured drinks]. 2 examples that spring to mind are Smarties & strawberry flavour Activia yoghurt.
homealone
16-05-2007, 18:26
I have to say I am very surprised by this decision by MasterFoods.
Aside of any debate about whether it is correct to target products at particular groups, this decision has changed a product suitable for vegetarians & non-vegetarians, to one suitable for non-vegetarians, only. I find it unusual for a company to limit the marketability of products in this way. Other products affected include Twix, Milky Way, Snickers and Bounty.
The majority of mass produced cheese manufactured in this country is made using vegetarian rennet, so I'm puzzled how the whey being purchased by MasterFoods is cheaper - speculation is that they are importing it.
I'm not vegetarian, myself, I just can't get why a company would deliberately alienate a proportion of it's customer base, in this way.
For those expressing reservations regarding the use of bacteria & fungi to produce 'vegetarian' rennet, it is a process similar to using yeast to produce wine & beer & bacteria to produce vinegar & yogurt. The only possible 'downside' is that one of the bacterial strains used has been genetically modified to produce 'chymosin', which is the enzyme that is 'nature identical' to animal rennet.
Saaf_laandon_mo
20-05-2007, 07:15
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6673549.stm
common sense has prevailed :)
Or "Mars gets free advertising that it's bars are suitable for vegetarians - See Mars' profits grow"
Tomorrow "Heinz threatens to change name or replace red ketchup with green"
Saaf_laandon_mo
20-05-2007, 07:46
ooo you cynic xaccers! lol
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6673549.stm
common sense has prevailed :)
Veggie power! :D
Veggie power! :D
Bio-diesel ;)
...Im sticking BIG cash on a lot of them caving in - now we will see how much they love the fluffy bunnies.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6673549.stm
common sense has prevailed :)
Well calculated, Mr Raja! You don't play the stock market, do you? If so, you are probably reading this from the comfort of your private yacht.
Well calculated, Mr Raja! You don't play the stock market, do you? If so, you are probably reading this from the comfort of your private yacht.
I think TBR was talking about the veggies (rather than Masterfoods) caving in? Hence the comment about their love of fluffy bunnies and the use of the plural.
Anyway, good news imo. Though I am tempted to side with the cynical lot.
ooo you cynic xaccers! lol
Well you would say that wouldn't you
;)
I think TBR was talking about the veggies (rather than Masterfoods) caving in? Hence the comment about their love of fluffy bunnies and the use of the plural.
Anyway, good news imo. Though I am tempted to side with the cynical lot.
Oh! I thought "love of fluffy bunnies" was a reference to the massive profits they make over Easter. Mars (or Masterfoods), I mean.
It is strange, though, with recent (and potential future) scares over animal viruses, that a large manufacturer such as this should put extract of calf stomach into their product. It sounds incredibly risky to me.
It is strange, though, with recent (and potential future) scares over animal viruses, that a large manufacturer such as this should put extract of calf stomach into their product. It sounds incredibly risky to me.
Bit of a geeky moment here... To produce active rennet, the extract is 'activated' using acid. This kills off any viruses knocking about pretty quick. Acid virus inactivation is used a lot in the pharmaceutical industry and is very effective. Also, the rennet itself will digest any virus proteins, killing viruses.
Pretty much the only things that will get through this treatment are a few bacteria, but these products are well filtered, and prions such as BSE. To be sold in europe, the calves that this rennet is from would have to be classed as 'fit for human consumption'. Even then, the amount of rennet used is very small and the risk is tiny.
Kinda stupid.
This makes me feel sick aswell, just the thought of it, the way they put it on the article, from freshly slaughted calves bellys... this has put me off completly.
Galaxy Minstrels are my fav choc, guess they are affected too.
rogerdraig
22-05-2007, 10:03
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1266578,00.html
seems mars didnt plan as well as some thought ;)
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1266578,00.html
seems mars didnt plan as well as some thought ;)
"Masterfoods in free publicity coup as people believe they're a caring company which listens to it's consumers. Marketting dept given bonuses for low cost advertising campaign"
dcclanuk
22-05-2007, 10:26
"Masterfoods in free publicity coup as people believe they're a caring company which listens to it's consumers. Marketting dept given bonuses for low cost advertising campaign"
I thought that it was a publicity stunt too! They didnt NEED to state they were changing their method! I thought they cannot sustain a loss of potential millions of customers!
rogerdraig
22-05-2007, 10:42
"Masterfoods in free publicity coup as people believe they're a caring company which listens to it's consumers. Marketting dept given bonuses for low cost advertising campaign"
yep there is that lol
You think how much all this good publicity would have cost them (actually forcing good publicity is very hard to do directly) and compare it with the cost of using rennet for a little while.
Actually, did they produce any rennet chocolate or was it just something they were "going" to do?
Saaf_laandon_mo
22-05-2007, 11:10
Actually, did they produce any rennet chocolate or was it just something they were "going" to do?
Im a bit confused too. Its my understanding that they already changed some and will now be changing it back, which means that there are some non veggie products out there.
Im not 100% sure tho.....
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