View Full Version : How will traffic shaping effect you?
xspeedyx
05-05-2007, 16:39
Will it really make massive change to ur life because you cant make out your speed all the time?
Please psot your views
no not at all, only those that mass download/sell films etc are going to complaining, personally it wont make much difference just things will bea bit slower thats all
it isnt a life or death ting being shaped/throttled
it won't effect my downloading as i use newsgroups and this traffic shaping will mean 5meg instead of 20meg in peak times which is no biggie as its still plenty fast enough, but it will probably effect my 2 xbox360 LIVE accounts, one being mine and one for the kids and my PS3 network account, these get used exclusively during peak times and if any demo's or game trailers are out (which can easily reach 1gig for demo's and 300/400meg for vids then yeah it'll effect me as 3gig can easily be downloaded in that restricted window, which them in turn will probably effect my online play due to the restrictions.
I don't think VM really thought about the implication it can effect on normal gaming services other than PC online Gaming which are becoming more and more popular
joglynne
05-05-2007, 17:00
:shrug:I doubt if it will effect me. Any downloading I do is either overnight or in the morning. Life's too short to sit and watch stuff download.:)
Jo
zing_deleted
05-05-2007, 17:33
With yet another thread started on this subject im now not prepared to respond to anything other than support in the Internet section until the obsession with this subject subsides
crowlord
05-05-2007, 18:10
:clap:With yet another thread started on this subject im now not prepared to respond to anything other than support in the Internet section until the obsession with this subject subsides:clap:
Don't worry zing you could always comment on a 20Mb thread instead :D
My only comment on the whole thing is that it is a darnsite less restrictive then a lot of other methods. If it starts to affect me I will schedule my DL's more effectively. Lets face it 4pm to midnight IS the optimum usage time for many users and downloading often can be done outside these times.
If i dont have to monitor how much i'm downloading i dont care, beats having a full blown cap on the service.
Wont effect me, i only download 1GB or less a day, and some days nothing because no one uses the computer.
dcclanuk
05-05-2007, 18:22
Wont effect me, i only download 1GB or less a day, and some days nothing because no one uses the computer.
Same as me.... But 350mb is just PATHETIC for 2mb users, hence it COULD, and most likely WILL affect me:(
jrhnewark
05-05-2007, 18:54
In which case you pay for the XL service or take your custom elsewhere.
3GB in peak hours is more than I could ever need - sure, I sometimes download more than that in a day, but I already do that at quieter hours to be fair on other network users.
Simple Answer
Not at all
:)
Berezovski
05-05-2007, 19:07
I won't be able to watch foreign p2p TV prime time, what's the point watching TV 1 am?
I tend to use my connection most during peak times, so this could well mean I'll no longer want to pay for a top tier service, if it's being slowed down when I want to use it the most. If it that bad, i'll just cut my losses and downgrade to a cheaper package.
£37.99 is a lot for an internet connection that could basically be only 5Mbps when I need it and 20Mbps when I don't.
I'll see how it fairs, it's not an aweful idea but maybe not the greatest either.
jrhnewark
05-05-2007, 19:13
I won't be able to watch foreign p2p TV prime time, what's the point watching TV 1 am?Blimey - how much foreign TV do you actually watch?! I assume it must be fairly high bitrate... :erm:
Honestly, these measures are put in place to stop people abusing the network. And too right.
Virgin Media
05-05-2007, 19:33
Honestly, these measures are put in place to stop people abusing the network. And too right.
What? :Yikes: How many more people are there going to be who clearly contradict the technicalities of cable? e.g. That cable brings a rock solid connection in my area day and night. (The only reason people might say otherwise are the ones in an area of cowboy cabling infrustructure.) It also allows ALOT more information through the lines thus not creating the problem wholeheartedly associated with ADSL.
My area would have me believe that its too good to be true with having a rock soild connection day and night, no traffic shaping, no port tightening truly unlimited downloads yet thats the contradiction and irony... its the technicalities of cable that allow me to experience those elements of my connection.
On a side note...
Life's too short to sit and watch stuff download.:)
...And so is forum talk. :D But when having 10, 20+ mb connections the 'wait' is not how you would seem to imply it. :dozey:
jrhnewark
05-05-2007, 19:53
What? :Yikes: How many more people are there going to be who clearly contradict the technicalities of cable?It's nothing to do with that. It's about the cost of bandwidth and the constraints of a network that doesn't cost as much as SDSL.
Virgin Media
05-05-2007, 20:31
It's about the cost of bandwidth and the constraints of a network that doesn't cost as much as SDSL.
Christ... even Virgin don't emphasize the reason being a drought of bandwidth due ot the price of bandwidth. They officially state with immense contradiction and misleading facts that its because that somehow the cable network infrustructure can't handle 'traffic jams'. ...I mean its totally outrageously incorrect!
Again what ''constraints''!? The technicalities of cable handle constraints. ADSL simply doesn't. ..And cowbow cable infrustructures that sadly are present in parts of our country can't, neither.
jrhnewark
05-05-2007, 20:33
Christ... even Virgin don't emphasize the reason being a drought of bandwidth due ot the price of bandwidth. They officially state with immense contradiction and misleading facts that its because that somehow the cable network infrustructure can't handle 'traffic jams'. ...I mean its totally outrageously incorrect!
Again what ''constraints''!? The technicalities of cable handle constraints. ADSL simply doesn't. ..And cowbow cable infrustructures that sadly are present in parts of our country can't, neither.Firstly, I'd suggest that you get your username changed ASAP to avoid any confusion. I thought you were a representative of the company until I read your message, so you're in a bad situation.
Without charging the earth, bandwidth on the backhaul of the network for every little geek without a girlfriend to download girl-on-girl at peak times at full speed ahead is impossible. It costs money.
I don't doubt that cable is by far more advanced when compared to ADSL. Still doesn't mean it should be a free for all for bandwidth hogs.
Virgin Media
05-05-2007, 21:29
Firstly, I'd suggest that you get your username changed ASAP to avoid any confusion. I thought you were a representative of the company until I read your message, so you're in a bad situation.
Nonsense.
Without charging the earth, bandwidth on the backhaul of the network for every little geek without a girlfriend to download girl-on-girl at peak times at full speed ahead is impossible. It costs money.
There is a University two miles east of me who download and upload sh*t loads. In the same area there is a ghetto of student houses who upload and download sh*t loads. Domestically in my area there are people who upload and download sh*t loads - Myself included. Now that bandwidth is there due to a policy of buying wholesale bandwidth from BT to primarily allow for unlimited usage with fair-use policy circumstances to my areas customers. ...Is this area suffering? - No. Thank God, I must say
...So I would suggest you find out why Virgin have a fetish for choosing areas for this harsh bandwidth drought.
On the porn issue... People have girlfriends/shagg partners and still download porn due to the simple facts of masturbatary elements. I mean do you abbrubtly stop masturbating just because you have a girlfriend? :Yikes:
don't doubt that cable is by far more advanced when compared to ADSL. Still doesn't mean it should be a free for all for bandwidth hogs.
Bandwidth hogs are only an issue when the bandwidth is not unlimited. Or simply not even there to be had.
jrhnewark
05-05-2007, 21:36
Nonsense. I don't think so.
There is a University two miles east of me who download and upload sh*t loads. In the same area there is a ghetto of student houses who upload and download sh*t loads. Domestically in my area there are people who upload and download sh*t loads - Myself included. Now that bandwidth is there due to a policy of buying wholesale bandwidth from BT to primarily allow for unlimited usage with fair-use policy circumstances to my areas customers. ...Is this area suffering? - No. Thank God, I must say
...So I would suggest you find out why Virgin have a fetish for choosing areas for this harsh bandwidth drought.
No one who's got half a brain should be trying to download, or upload, at full steam ahead during peak hours. It's just irresponsible. If it means that people need to be controlled, then so be it.
On the porn issue... People have girlfriends/shagg partners and still download porn due to the simple facts of masturbatary elements. I mean do you abbrubtly stop masturbating just because you have a girlfriend? :Yikes:
Actually, I download some because my girlfriend's the one who likes it. Hoho.
Bandwidth hogs are only an issue when the bandwidth is not unlimited. Or simply not even there to be had.No, they're an issue when it IS unlimited, because they swamp it all!
No one who's got half a brain should be trying to download, or upload, at full steam ahead during peak hours. It's just irresponsible. If it means that people need to be controlled, then so be it.
!
Oh well looks like I've only got half a brain then . :dozey: :rolleyes:
Think what you like, I honestly don't care. lol.
I must add I can't see anywhere in the T&C's etc where it says you can't use what you pay for during those times.
---------- Post added at 21:52 ---------- Previous post was at 21:45 ----------
Also can I say thank you to all those who are guilt free, to allow people like myself to have had good rates during peak times to download the files I've needed as and when I decide. :tu:
jrhnewark
05-05-2007, 21:52
Oh well looks like I've only got half a brain then . :dozey: :rolleyes:
Think what you like, I honestly don't care. lol.
I must add I can't see anywhere in the T&C's etc where it says you can't use what you pay for during those times.I think you'll find there's a Fair Use Policy, which effectively means "don't take the p*ss".
Oh - and BTW - I can't download a whole lot at ANY time at the moment thanks to the bandwidth hogs. So cheers, mate.
I think you'll find there's a Fair Use Policy, which effectively means "don't take the p*ss".
Sorry, I use my connection for legit reasons, other than that, read my post above. :tu:
I doubt it will effect 4MB or 20MB users, but it will definitely effect me and other users who r on 2MB connection, because downloading/uploading 350MBs in 4 (or is it even 8) hours is just pathetic. 350 will run out after u browse a few websites and listen to some online radio or watch some video clips...
icestar2
05-05-2007, 22:00
At the moment it wont effect me. But I can see this becoming a problem in the not to near future with all the online on demand services that are launching i.e. c4,bbc and now ITV and there just a couple.
Virgin Media
05-05-2007, 22:01
I don't think so.
You think alot of things.
No one who's got half a brain should be trying to download, or upload, at full steam ahead during peak hours. It's just irresponsible. If it means that people need to be controlled, then so be it.
You fall to understand that areas are being picked and some areas are not. Meaning the technicalities of restricting bandwidth are not black and white. As you like to imply with ''then so be it'' attitude and throughout.
Actually, I download some because my girlfriend's the one who likes it. Hoho.
So you don't like porn, eh. ...Fortunately your girlfriend does. Although maybe you prefer the boy/boy stuff? ...Kinky :p
No, they're an issue when it IS unlimited, because they swamp it all!
Have you purposely not read my emphasis on my area regarding connectivity and usage? Have you purposely failed to understand that the wholeslae of bandwidth in my area allows us to download sh*t loads? ...And yes within a fair use policy a user should be able to download sh*t loads becuase why and how could you emphasize 'unlimited'. ...Ah yes... that would be unlimitedly limited.
I doubt it will effect 4MB or 20MB users, but it will definitely effect me and other users who r on 2MB connection, because downloading/uploading 350MBs in 4 (or is it even 8) hours is just pathetic. 350 will run out after u browse a few websites and listen to some online radio or watch some video clips...
You are right, there are a lot of people who will be affected even though they ain't a strain nor classed as heavy downloaders. Don't (I know you haven't) blame people who download too much illegal stuff, as they are only 5% according to VM, blame VM for a very ill thought out stupid response to that, without any thought behind it and it's people like yourself get caught up in it all. Crazy.
Will not affect me at all to be honest. :)
Linux Isos will still be there before 4 and after 12 ;)
Will not affect me at all to be honest. :)
Goodo. It won't affect me much either at all, but it will affect a lot of people who are caught up in it all through no fault of their own. They will still pay the same but 350mb is such a very small amount don't you think. You can do that very easily and very legitimately and without take the pea either. Now is that fair?
dcclanuk
05-05-2007, 22:16
Damn that frigging thing called traffic shaping of a ridiculous 350mb "QUOTA" has started in my area...
Just finished a 450mb download, and came up to the comp and did a couple of speed tests, and now on my 2mb...
Sat, 05 May 2007 21:13:46 GMT
1st 512K took 4344 ms = 117.9 KB/sec, approx 971 Kbps, 0.95 Mbps
2nd 512K took 4421 ms = 115.8 KB/sec, approx 954 Kbps, 0.93 Mbps
3rd 512K took 4454 ms = 115 KB/sec, approx 948 Kbps, 0.93 Mbps
4th 512K took 4453 ms = 115 KB/sec, approx 948 Kbps, 0.93 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 955 Kbps, 0.94 Mbps
a perfect 1mb connection:mad:
I only downloaded 1.3gb today! Thats actually slightly more than average aswell! well P*ssed!
This traffic shaping will just make all heavy users download everything from the moment they wake up in the morning till 4pm, because some people, including me, sleep in the same room as the pc and r not willing to keep the pc running at night and smell the pc smell or listen to the fan's or the hard drive's noises. Other reason r the electricity bills and minor damage to the pc when it's on 24/7...
I bet this will make it even worse for people who have had slow speeds before because of that 5% of heavy users, as at least 50% of standard users and heavy users will now download at the same time...
Will not affect me at all to be honest. :)
Linux Isos will still be there before 4 and after 12 ;)
Indeed they will and are :)
you got 0.95mps!
Since the cap has been in place my speed hasn't gone over 0.61mps on a 2mb connection
VM's famous meter says that i have downloaded a MASSIVE 219mb today.
looks like my contract with VM is about to end
3GB is more then enough between 4-12, it only lasts 4 hours if you go over, and 5Mbps is also more than enough too.
Remember when they used to have 3GB per month limit? they are being generous now with 3GB between 4-12 everyday :P And its not like your internet connection is going to shut down, atleast its "unlimited" in a sense unlike those ADSL providers.
dcclanuk
05-05-2007, 22:40
you got 0.95mps!
Since the cap has been in place my speed hasn't gone over 0.61mps on a 2mb connection
VM's famous meter says that i have downloaded a MASSIVE 219mb today.
looks like my contract with VM is about to end
I dont mind them TRAFFIC SHAPING... its just the ridiculous cap... 350mb... FFS, we are not in the 1980's where we only have yahoo.com and msn.com to visit:(
I doubt it will rarely affect me, Possbly on the offchance (I dont have much to download these days). I rarely download demos and currently dont Xbox Live/Playstation network. 3GB for normal usage seems plenty for me.
If all the heavy users download after 12, im most likely not around for long after that time and it will just seem the computer would be idle less.
I remember when i first started using the service that they were trying a 1 GB/day limit or something.
350mb is riduculas, how will downloading things at half the speed help anybody
the people who dont download anything wont see any difference because they Dont Download!
I dont mind them TRAFFIC SHAPING... its just the ridiculous cap... 350mb... FFS, we are not in the 1980's where we only have yahoo.com and msn.com to visit:(
personally I think VM are just bullying the "low profit " 2mb user base to upgrade to the more expensive XXXLTXL package.
still dont understand why they cap the £37+ 10/20mb users? very poor business practice by vm.
My whole street except 4 houses are old people, 70+ years, so i dont think they need to traffic shape on my UBR/street
Almost everyone on my street has ntl though.
Come to think of it, traffic shaping has effected me by making me waste a stupid amount of time on this forum!
icestar2
05-05-2007, 22:55
still dont understand why they cap the £37+ 10/20mb users? very poor business practice by vm.
It's not a cap - A cap is normally a monthly amount that if you go over you lose or have a reduced service for the rest of the month.
Traffic shapping is done on a daily basis with VM from what I have read on there website. Therefore you could end up with traffic shaping one day but be fine the next. Its worked out by how much you download between 4pm and 12am. Reset's after 12 according to VM.
It's not a cap - A cap is normally a monthly amount that if you go over you lose or have a reduced service for the rest of the month.
Traffic shapping is done on a daily basis with VM from what I have read on there website. Therefore you could end up with traffic shaping one day but be fine the next. Its worked out by how much you download between 4pm and 12am. Reset's after 12 according to VM.
i have seen the website, thanks ANYWAY for the patronising comment.
Do you work for VM because it IS a cap according to me
i have downloaded only 219mb today can you explain the SUB 0.5mb speed all day today?
do vm send letters anymore explaining the massive alterations of the t/c's or is this business practice normal by these incompetent fools.
never had a problem like this over the 7 years with NTL cableBB
jrhnewark
05-05-2007, 23:10
Will not affect me at all to be honest. :)
Linux Isos will still be there before 4 and after 12 ;)Common sense - thank God it's not just me who can set the BitTorrent running at times other than the evening.
Common sense - thank God it's not just me who can set the BitTorrent running at times other than the evening.
why do i have to thank god for being able to use a service that i have paid for for?!
why do you automatically think that everyone is downloading torrents like crazy anyway?!
VM just want the "leaching" 2mb customers that do not make mega $$ onto the 4play £40+ mega packs they have been trying to shove down our throats.
LIKE I JUST SAID capping the 10/20mb users speed is crazy considering they pay a ripoff £37 a month for effectively a 2mb/5mb d/l speed if they break the 3gb traffic limit!!
icestar2
05-05-2007, 23:31
i have seen the website, thanks ANYWAY for the patronising comment.
Do you work for VM because it IS a cap according to me
i have downloaded only 219mb today can you explain the SUB 0.5mb speed all day today?
do vm send letters anymore explaining the massive alterations of the t/c's or is this business practice normal by these incompetent fools.
never had a problem like this over the 7 years with NTL cableBB
Sorry m8 I didnt mean to sound patronising. I am gonna have to check how I word stuff from now on cause I seem to be offending people.
No I dont work for VM. I also have been having problems lately that I have posted in another thread. I have not downloaded anything today yet I am getting this :-
1st 512K took 781 ms = 655.6 KB/sec, approx 5402 Kbps, 5.28 Mbps
2nd 512K took 797 ms = 642.4 KB/sec, approx 5293 Kbps, 5.17 Mbps
3rd 512K took 750 ms = 682.7 KB/sec, approx 5625 Kbps, 5.49 Mbps
4th 512K took 703 ms = 728.3 KB/sec, approx 6001 Kbps, 5.86 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 5580 Kbps, 5.45 Mbps
Its normally up around 9.7mbps but for some reason its slow tonight.
Again sorry if I offended you it was truely not intended.
well we are on the 2mb service , due to financial restraints.
i dont mind the fact that they want to introduce traffic shaping, but they said it will only effect the heavy downloaders.
monitored my 6 year old sons use today ,he goes on his websites jetix,nickjr etc and plays online games at these and other sites.
even he went over the 350mb cap...so my 6 year old is a heavy user who is bringing the virgin network down to its knees.:Yikes:
i would prefer a monthly cap.
well we are on the 2mb service , due to financial restraints.
i dont mind the fact that they want to introduce traffic shaping, but they said it will only effect the heavy downloaders.
monitored my 6 year old sons use today ,he goes on his websites jetix,nickjr etc and plays online games at these and other sites.
even he went over the 350mb cap...so my 6 year old is a heavy user who is bringing the virgin network down to its knees.:Yikes:
i would prefer a monthly cap.
Preposterous isn't it. Meanwhile the 10/20 MB guys are getting effectively 6GB of full speed data between 4-12, while still having 5MB when their connection is nixed.
Meanwhile your 6 yr old apparently is the 5% that is the cause of network slowdown...
This isn't about traffic management it's about encouraging folks like yourself to buy a more expensive plan even if you don't need the bandwidth... :td:
Euromancer
05-05-2007, 23:42
Blimey - how much foreign TV do you actually watch?! I assume it must be fairly high bitrate... :erm:
Honestly, these measures are put in place to stop people abusing the network. And too right.
Very true however Virgin are still actively advertising as "the true ulimited ISP service" which we all know now to be a crock of doodoo. Cannot see why compaines cannot just be open with their customers, instead of all this cloak and dagger forum fodder.
This is definitely going to effect me. I download quite a bit of stuff and this traffic shaping ******** is a load of crap. I think I might have to look for a new provider.
Porn and downloading are the two best things about the internet. If we can't download at top speed then what's the ****ing point of introducing those speeds in the first place. You don't need a 20meg connection to surf different internet sites, it's all for downloading, uploading and online gaming. They are effectively defeating the purpose of having broadband in the first place. Pack of *****. :td::mad:
jrhnewark
06-05-2007, 00:04
why do i have to thank god for being able to use a service that i have paid for for?!
why do you automatically think that everyone is downloading torrents like crazy anyway?! Because if people didn't do it all day and all night, bandwidth would be plentiful for the lighter users who just want quick bursts of speed!
VM just want the "leaching" 2mb customers that do not make mega $$ onto the 4play £40+ mega packs they have been trying to shove down our throats. No, they want you to pay a fair price for a fair service. Paying £18 a month and then downloading all day and all night just isn't going to let them break even.
LIKE I JUST SAID capping the 10/20mb users speed is crazy considering they pay a ripoff £37 a month for effectively a 2mb/5mb d/l speed if they break the 3gb traffic limit!!But it is only until midnight, is it not?
£37 for 20 meg and 1/3 of the month you are going to get 5, well worth it, BRING NTL BACK
jrhnewark
06-05-2007, 00:13
£37 for 20 meg and 1/3 of the month you are going to get 5, well worth it, BRING NTL BACKNo, 5Mbps downstream if you go over 3GB between 4pm and midnight. It's back to 20Mbps at midnight. What's the big deal?!
No, 5Mbps downstream if you go over 3GB between 4pm and midnight. It's back to 20Mbps at midnight. What's the big deal?!
The big deal is a person with a 20meg connection could download 3gb in no time. It only takes a few hours for me to download that much on a 2 meg connection. If they can't deliver something then they shouldn't advertise it.
VM have advertised an unlimited service and now they are throttling people. It's a big f**king deal if you ask me, especially when it's during peak times.
Downloading, uploading and gaming is what broadband is mainly for as I said in my previous post. Throttling defeats the purpose of having broadband in the first place. I don't need a 2meg connection to surf different websites, let alone a 20meg connection that some people have.
It's an absolute joke that VM have rolled out this 20meg service when they don't even have the facilities to run it properly.
Will it really make massive change to ur life because you cant make out your speed all the time?
Please psot your views
It's not going to affect me at all, or very little if it does.
As I posted on another forum even at 5mb you can get over 2gb an hour, and even with the shaping in place you could still download over 160gb a day (compared to 108gb on 10mb, or 216gb on unshaped 20mbit - assuming you are not in an area where lots of people are downloading full whack 24/7).
I can't believe how much fuss some people are causing over the change, it's an overal 55% increase in bandwidth even with the limiting in place (and most people could/should be able to avoid it by being a bit patient).
I don't personally know anyone who transfers even a sizable fraction of the 108gb per day 10mbit offered, even a couple of friends who are what I would consider very heavy downloaders.
I look at the speed increase as something that is going to be nice for bursts of activity - downloading games demos/patches etc, not for something I can honestly see anyone needing all the time for home use.
I would much rather this sort of shaping to try and ensure that most people have a decent connection in the evening, than any of the other options as employed by most other ISP's (bandwidth caps*, lower speed all the time, higher prices, charging for using more than XX gb a month regardless of the time of day etc).
*many of which are pretty low.
BlackAle
06-05-2007, 01:01
I doubt it will effect 4MB or 20MB users, but it will definitely effect me and other users who r on 2MB connection, because downloading/uploading 350MBs in 4 (or is it even 8) hours is just pathetic. 350 will run out after u browse a few websites and listen to some online radio or watch some video clips...
You're on the lowest priced service, if you have a problem with those limits, upgrade to the next level, I really don't see what people are complaining about.
Also remember the average broadband customer in the UK uses between 2Gb - 8 Gb a month.
---------- Post added at 00:55 ---------- Previous post was at 00:48 ----------
I dont mind them TRAFFIC SHAPING... its just the ridiculous cap... 350mb... FFS, we are not in the 1980's where we only have yahoo.com and msn.com to visit:(
You're not being traffic shaped, your overall speed is being reduced. Traffic shaping is when particular ports / protocols are reduced in speed.
---------- Post added at 00:58 ---------- Previous post was at 00:55 ----------
784K Up on 20Mb service, less then 4% of the download speed? DISGUSTING!
You really need to read up on the limitations of upstream on a modern cable network. I'm sure google can help you.
---------- Post added at 01:01 ---------- Previous post was at 00:58 ----------
personally I think VM are just bullying the "low profit " 2mb user base to upgrade to the more expensive XXXLTXL package.
I guess you don't realise that the MAJORITY of those customers, only use a few gigs a month.
I guess you don't realise that the MAJORITY of those customers, only use a few gigs a month.
personally i don't like your attitude pal,you sound like a suit from virgin. can you quote me that statistic please or was that a quote from a BT hack stating the benefits of ISDN on working lunch circa 1998?
personally I do not care about "other" peoples surfing habits but suddenly i have gone from a relatively stable ntl cable line of 7 years to as of this week my 2mb connection is running at <500k thanks to virgin.
Date 06/05/07 00:55:49
Speed Down 476.12 Kbps ( 0.5 Mbps )
Speed Up 157.50 Kbps ( 0.2 Mbps )
Port
Server speedtest1.adslguide.org.uk
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5837/ssnj3.jpg
BlackAle
06-05-2007, 01:18
I'm on the 10mbit service and think it's a bargain, it won't affect me at all, I've been using roughly the same amount of bandwidth since I was on a 1mbit connection... around 80 - 100 gigs a month, which I consider heavy usage.
Having a faster connection to me, means I can get stuff quicker, not that I can download more stuff. I think the majority of people think like this.
I'm on the 10mbit service and think it's a bargain, it won't affect me at all, I've been using roughly the same amount of bandwidth since I was on a 1mbit connection... around 80 - 100 gigs a month, which I consider heavy usage.
Having a faster connection to me, means I can get stuff quicker, not that I can download more stuff. I think the majority of people think like this.
That is pretty much my take on it.
In the past 16 months i've used about 600gb of total bandwidth according to DU meter - less than 3 days of what is possible with 20mb, 4 days with it being throttled as is meant to be happening now.
Allowing for the fact I share my connection with my brother, and he uses about the same amount of bandwidth as myself, and it works out at about 2.5gb a day, even allowing for my calcualtions being out by 100% on our use (if he's using it a lot more than I think*), then we'd only be using about 5gb a day, and I would consider us moderately heavy users.
Most of the people I know off forums only use the connection very lightly, or at the most to the level of myself and my brother - I only know one person who is a massively heavy user in RL, and I beleive even he would be hard pushed to have any problems with this throttling if he takes some very basic steps.
helmutcheese
06-05-2007, 03:10
Locky, Virgin Media IS NTL, aint you read all over forums the fact they bought Virgin Mobile and part of the deal was they had to take on the VM name.
Bring back TW-BY IMO, NTL are the worste ISP ever or = to AOL :td: , since Oct 2006 things have went downhill at my end. (shortly after NTL took over TW-BY).
jrhnewark
06-05-2007, 04:02
personally I do not care about "other" peoples surfing habits but suddenly i have gone from a relatively stable ntl cable line of 7 years to as of this week my 2mb connection is running at <500k thanks to virgin.That's not entirely down to Virgin Media, it's down to bandwidth hogs. Don't you worry, I have exactly the same people - only I'm paying £20 a month more than you for 20Mbps!
Virgin Media
06-05-2007, 05:06
only I'm paying £20 a month more than you for 20Mbps!
Now I know why your such a... ...you won't even pick up the phone and get a 'retention offer' to at least get it half price.
More to the point... why do you fail to understand that this shaping is only effecting areas Virgin want to. There are several areas including mine that don't suffer from the drought of bandwidth.
...IF it was effecting ALL areas then fine. But your jumping on it as if it were a black and white issue. Which it bloody well isn't by means of technicalities.
To top it off... where's the numbers from Virgin to prove of how 5% of top downloaders truly consume the wholesale of bandwidth aquired by Virgin off BT is sucked dry?
A precentage, bandwidth costs and your more sucked into them as being the reasons more than a lefty liberal sucked into global warming.
It's not going to affect me at all, or very little if it does.
As I posted on another forum even at 5mb you can get over 2gb an hour, and even with the shaping in place you could still download over 160gb a day (compared to 108gb on 10mb, or 216gb on unshaped 20mbit - assuming you are not in an area where lots of people are downloading full whack 24/7).
I can't believe how much fuss some people are causing over the change, it's an overal 55% increase in bandwidth even with the limiting in place (and most people could/should be able to avoid it by being a bit patient).
I don't personally know anyone who transfers even a sizable fraction of the 108gb per day 10mbit offered, even a couple of friends who are what I would consider very heavy downloaders.
I look at the speed increase as something that is going to be nice for bursts of activity - downloading games demos/patches etc, not for something I can honestly see anyone needing all the time for home use.
I would much rather this sort of shaping to try and ensure that most people have a decent connection in the evening, than any of the other options as employed by most other ISP's (bandwidth caps*, lower speed all the time, higher prices, charging for using more than XX gb a month regardless of the time of day etc).
*many of which are pretty low.
How about the people whom pay for the premuim service (£37.99) and will only have 20Mbps for the first 3gb and 5Mbps therefore after. If leaving my computer on overnight was an option I'd just have a 1Mbps connection and run it day in day out. Some of us don't have server farms dedicated to being download boxes.
I'd rather there was an overall monthly download limit that one imposed by the hours.
Sherlock614
06-05-2007, 08:32
I'd rather there was an overall monthly download limit that one imposed by the hours.
:erm:
I wouldn't!!!
As much as i hate the idea of throttling, you have to expect some "control". This way, it's nice to know exactly where you stand and why your connection speed has just been halved. But better, it gives you the opportunity to work around it.
I DO feel for people that have multi PC setups with more than a few kids. As has been said peak time for them is when the throttling kicks in, which is exactly what they don't need for their monthly 37 quid!
jrhnewark
06-05-2007, 09:47
Now I know why your such a... ...you won't even pick up the phone and get a 'retention offer' to at least get it half price. Haven't you grasped that if everyone phoned retentions, the company would go bust?
More to the point... why do you fail to understand that this shaping is only effecting areas Virgin want to. There are several areas including mine that don't suffer from the drought of bandwidth. Because the only legal battlefield that could arise from this is having customers all pay the same but offering them different services. You'll also find that these measures will protect your area, even if there aren't already problems - and how you seem so sure there aren't, I've no idea.
To top it off... where's the numbers from Virgin to prove of how 5% of top downloaders truly consume the wholesale of bandwidth aquired by Virgin off BT is sucked dry? I'm not actually sure who VM buy backhaul bandwidth from, so I'll take it as read that it is BT, as you seem so sure. You'll find that such information is commercially sensitive.
some throttling ive been on a slow speed in stoke from about 4 yesterday after noon.https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2007/05/202.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
its now 9.55 in the morning in stoke and im still getting no faster than 300 on my 10 meg connection using usenetserver.com not happy at all
No, 5Mbps downstream if you go over 3GB between 4pm and midnight. It's back to 20Mbps at midnight. What's the big deal?!
well i dont call that unlimited and 3gb is nothing...
---------- Post added at 10:13 ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 ----------
some throttling ive been on a slow speed in stoke from about 4 yesterday after noon.https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2007/05/202.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
its now 9.55 in the morning in stoke and im still getting no faster than 300 on my 10 meg connection using usenetserver.com not happy at all
it is 10:12 am i am maxing my connection from usenetserver 1.17MB/s
downquark1
06-05-2007, 10:49
Don't know how many of u know the game second life, but its a user made MMORPG world that requires a lot of bandwidth (allmost all models and textures are streamed to u), naturally since its a game it would probably been played in peak times.
Just an example of a legit high intensive usage.
some throttling ive been on a slow speed in stoke from about 4 yesterday after noon.https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2007/05/202.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
its now 9.55 in the morning in stoke and im still getting no faster than 300 on my 10 meg connection using usenetserver.com not happy at all
Just a question.
Why test to a server in Atlanta ?
same test for me from Atlanta
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2007/05/203.png
Test from UK server
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2007/05/204.png
????
mcgeezer
06-05-2007, 11:06
It's not a cap - A cap is normally a monthly amount that if you go over you lose or have a reduced service for the rest of the month.
Traffic shapping is done on a daily basis with VM from what I have read on there website. Therefore you could end up with traffic shaping one day but be fine the next. Its worked out by how much you download between 4pm and 12am. Reset's after 12 according to VM.
Not strictly true according to this (http://abcde.co.uk/virginmedia/stm.html).
Your connection could be out until 4am.
Can anyone clarify?
Your connection could be out until 4am.
Can anyone clarify?
Unfortunately, from what I've read on the newsgroups this does indeed seem to be the case. Trigger it a minute before midnight, and your connection is crippled until 4am.
My stance:
Traffic shaping will definitely affect me negatively. I don't download things or fileshare, I don't want a massively high speed connection, I just want to be able to download something and get it in a reasonable amount of time, hence I'm on the 4mb service and have previously been happy with this.
Unfortunately, with the new caps (and they are caps, the amount you can download during a day at the speed you pay for is capped, there is an undeniable limit before your service is downgraded), I'll be hit hard. I work during the day, have to sleep during the night, so the only time I use my connection is usually the evenings.
A 750mb is just too low in my opinion. With just normal browsing in the evenings accross different sites, 750mb is easily hittable. Add in a download from 4ondemand, or the upcoming BBC video archive, or trying out Joost, watching a BBC stream, using Napster (legal) to listen to a music radio station, or heaven forbid, download a game demo, trailer or software demo or update or work which needs to be done at home, and the 750mb will easily be hit.
To be punished for just doing web browsing with the occasional download seems rather harsh to me. It's all very well saying do it between midnight and the morning, but it's no use if I'm not around. How many of you can say you have never been surfing the internet and found something you wanted to download on the spurr of the moment (for example, I wanted to try out MS ISA Server 2006, 1,5gb download, I wanted to try it out that evening, but it would have hit my limit) and not have to schedule it up overnight and try it the next day, or want to watch a video or a live stream (which you can't put off).
My greatest fear is the impact this will have on new interne technologies. There's 4 on demand, Sky's video over the net service, ITV are supposedly starting one soon, BBC are in trials with some users already using it to watch BBC programs in the past week. Then, there's things like Joost which offer legal television content streams over the internet from content providers. Then there's companies starting to offer legal video downloads over the internet, supposedly Apple is making this move for AppleTV and to begin offering lots of video content. Hitting these limits will be far too easily, and then having to put up with an inferior service for what most peopple would consider normal internet usage is unfair.
Plus, with more and more things becoming internet enabled, in a typical family, you might have two computers in use on the internet, as well as a games console and other devices, such as AppleTV, VOIP handsets etc. - hitting 750mb will no doubt happen within an hour in the evening when the children get back from school and the parents home from work. Then they'll all have to suffer as a result.
This is obviously different to the people that have their computers sitting there with usenet or bittorrent or another p2p program maxing out their connection all day all night downloading movies, games and software.
I think it's unfair that there's no distinction made between people who consistently max out their connection to the detriment of other people, and people who use the internet in a normal situation, with occasional downloading or streaming.
If the cable network can't handle 20mb which is why they are introducing this, could they not have put off 20mb until the infrastructure could handle it? Why penalise everyone so they can boast new speeds?
Not strictly true according to this (http://abcde.co.uk/virginmedia/stm.html).
Your connection could be out until 4am.
Can anyone clarify?
yes 4am is the latest (or should be but no dobut vm will get even cheekyer still)
Mr Angry
06-05-2007, 12:57
hmmmm.
stokeylokey
06-05-2007, 13:28
Well here in Stoke we have all had massive reductions in speed during the "peak" hours - despite not having had the 20mb upgrade so apparently not being on traffic shaping.
Have they suddenly doubled the number of connections round here thanks to their all-pervasive advertising, taking on all the "bandwidth hogs" from the other ISPs? Or are they just jerking us around?
For several weeks (almost 2 months if memory serves) our connection gets wiped out at around 4pm from 9mb (we have the 10mb service) down to around 1.5mb, sometimes a little higher, sometimes much lower.
Will it affect me? Well...if what they state on the website it true, yes it will improve my connection speed. Do I believe that it will help me? No I don't, based on my experience with VM whose staff don't even know what is happening to the network in my area I doubt it will ever be the same as it was when I took up the contract with them.
To be honest it seems to those of us in Stoke that they are "shaping" everyone during peak hours regardless of what bandwidth we use - either that or they just took on another 50K teenagers addicted to downloading but only between exactly4pm and 12am....does anyone here think that is likely?!?!?
Berezovski
06-05-2007, 13:29
hmmmm.
Could you clarify a couple of things?
(i) "We" : is this Queen's English referring just to the blond?
(ii) Is the verb literal (not metaphoric)?
If the answer is yes to both, do I call CS to book it?
Now I know why your such a... ...you won't even pick up the phone and get a 'retention offer' to at least get it half price.
More to the point... why do you fail to understand that this shaping is only effecting areas Virgin want to. There are several areas including mine that don't suffer from the drought of bandwidth.
To top it off... where's the numbers from Virgin to prove of how 5% of top downloaders truly consume the wholesale of bandwidth aquired by Virgin off BT is sucked dry?
firstly, anyone who got a retentions offer for the hell of it should be kicked off imo, if you dont want to pay the proper prices then you shouldnt be a customer at all
secondly, where is the evidence that virgin are only doing the traffic throttling in set areas?
thirdly, what has BT got to do with virgin?
crowlord
06-05-2007, 13:59
retentions is the biggest crime in VM.
I hate the idea that some loudmouthed bolshy son of a ---- can get a discount purely because they have the nerve to threaten to leave!
Pay the price on the tin people or go away. You are driving up the price for the rest of us :(.
End :notopic: :rant:
I can see the problem with the 350mB limit on the entry levels but when you consider that adsl (plucking BT from the air) at a cost of 18.99 (1 pound more then VM Medium or £9 more if you take telephone) will only allow downloads that average 165MB a day. it doesn't seem that bad. It is a cheap package. You pay the money you take your choice.
LIKE I JUST SAID capping the 10/20mb users speed is crazy considering they pay a ripoff £37 a month for effectively a 2mb/5mb d/l speed if they break the 3gb traffic limit!!
Im very happy paying £37 per month, it certainly isnt a rip off, the service I receive im extremely happy with, 3gigs between 4 - 12 is absolutely no problem for me, ill download in the daytime and then just watch, play and install what ive downloaded.
3gig is plenty for evening, i mean you can download as much as you want at other times at a blistering 20MB speed, an excellent deal if u ask me.
Where some ISPs have a set cap on what you can download, work out how much you can download outside of the 4-12 at 20MB, and then times that by 30days and youll see VM are being extremely fair.
I JUST WANT TO BE UPGRADED TO 20MB!!!!! :D
;)
---------- Post added at 14:56 ---------- Previous post was at 14:51 ----------
Meanwhile the 10/20 MB guys are getting effectively 6GB of full speed data between 4-12, while still having 5MB when their connection is nixed.
And rightly so in my opinion, after all we are paying £37 per month for the pleasure which is certainly not cheap these days.
VM are right to look after the 10/20MB users, without us they would lose much needed revenue. ;)
Not saying we are better than 2/4MB users, but its the same with any company, you look after the people paying the most money :D
alferret
06-05-2007, 15:09
retentions is the biggest crime in VM.
I hate the idea that some loudmouthed bolshy son of a ---- can get a discount purely because they have the nerve to threaten to leave!
Pay the price on the tin people or go away. You are driving up the price for the rest of us :(.
End :notopic: :rant:
Totally agree with you Crowlord :tu: well said.
Now I know why your such a... ...you won't even pick up the phone and get a 'retention offer' to at least get it half price.
Why should he ring retentions for a half price offer?
Some of us on 10/20MB are very very happy with the service, and believe in paying a good price for a good service.
If we all rang up VM to get a retentions offer then what sort of state do you think the network would be in?
Im very happy paying £37 for 10Meg, now im getting 20MB i think its the bargain of the century!!! :D
if they are going to shape 1/3 of the time then they SHOULD knock 1/3 off the price...
if they are going to shape 1/3 of the time then they SHOULD knock 1/3 off the price...
Maybe they should do it the other way..... and make people pay for the bandwidth they use on a pay-per-Mb system. That way the abusers will pay their way instead of just impacting the service of other people.
Well I am currently getting discount due to **ss poor connection on the 10 meg.
I have had a cable re-pull from the house to the box on the street and new cable on the inside of the house 2 yes 2 new modems.
Guess what I still have the problem with only reaching between 3 and 5 meg, my measured down load speed in safe mode with networking and normal boot on 3 computers and measured by engineers was roughly between 300 to 400 KB/s.
All I am told by tech support is that they are aware that there is a problem but there is no date for the fix just that they know of the problem and they even mention on some conversations that I am on a over subbed system.
This has been going on for a few months now on and off and due to this I have had my bill for this months BB refunded and a have a period of time where I am now only paying half price.
Has I refuse to drop down in connection speed on a broken system until it is fixed.
To top that I am not a heavy downloader unlike some my useage for this month is only 15 gig as I run a small game server and was holding out for the 20 meg.
So until VM fix there crap I will keep taking the offers/discounts.
My mission in life now is to get at least 10 meg for a period of more then 2 weeks from VM.
Rant over........... Post area is DE21
---------- Post added at 15:43 ---------- Previous post was at 15:42 ----------
Maybe they should do it the other way..... and make people pay for the bandwidth they use on a pay-per-Mb system. That way the abusers will pay their way instead of just impacting the service of other people.
Well said that man :tu: :tu: :tu:
Foo Fighter
06-05-2007, 15:46
Still no traffic shaping here or has it not rolled out yet?
Virgin Media
06-05-2007, 15:50
Nothing wrong with retentions. They're still making money. Unless you think that they're doing out of the goodness of they're hearts?
''Oh I'm good... I pay the full price'' - Pathetic.
As for areas... the proof is there.
On the issue of BT... Der!
Still no traffic shaping here or has it not rolled out yet?
Thank you! Virgin ARE picking and choosing areas but the full paying, not very much downloading crew will try and poisen your mind and imply - ''well... lets just make it easier and just say you are, eh?''
Berezovski
06-05-2007, 15:51
Still no traffic shaping here or has it not rolled out yet?
It starts at 16:00, give it 10 minutes + <3G downloading after that ;)
crowlord
06-05-2007, 16:08
Nothing wrong with retentions. They're still making money. Unless you think that they're doing out of the goodness of they're hearts?
''Oh I'm good... I pay the full price'' - Pathetic.
That's a good point. Next time i go to Tesco I will stand at the till point, spit out my dummy and refuse to pay full price "or I will go ta sainsbrys innit" what is it about the UK and "Any Discount on that mate" culture? Pay the price. Retentions are for people with genuine problems not for those that are playing silly games to get it cheaper then everyone else.
Nothing wrong with retentions. They're still making money. Unless you think that they're doing out of the goodness of they're hearts?
''Oh I'm good... I pay the full price'' - Pathetic.
As for areas... the proof is there.
On the issue of BT... Der!
Thank you! Virgin ARE picking and choosing areas but the full paying, not very much downloading crew will try and poisen your mind and imply - ''well... lets just make it easier and just say you are, eh?''
RE retentions: if everyone paid the proper price there would be more money for network upgrades and a better service. if i was vm i'd put all the customers on retention offers onto a single pipe and let them fight over limited bandwidth
RE area specific throttling: its only being enabled when an area is updated to 20mb, therefore i have no throttling yet as my area hasnt been updated yet, therefore that isnt proof yet.
but still, what has BT got to do with VM? Nothing!
dcclanuk
06-05-2007, 16:16
That's a good point. Next time i go to Tesco I will stand at the till point, spit out my dummy and refuse to pay full price "or I will go ta sainsbrys innit" what is it about the UK and "Any Discount on that mate" culture? Pay the price. Retentions are for people with genuine problems not for those that are playing silly games to get it cheaper then everyone else.
Some supermarkets actually have price guarantee AFAIK... if u find it cheaper elsewhere they will refund it! John Lewis similarly price matches, aswell as Currys etc. So when u are calling not with the intention of leaving, but to get a price match from competitors I see no harm, as the reason they are having to price match is due to their ridiculously high prices in the first place, which are either due to greedy business people, or inefficiencies. Dont forget, Virgin Media is a business. Watch THE APPRENTICE TO LEARN MORE!!!
U are a bit like that QUANTUM PHYSICIST, but with the role reversed! She doesnt want to SELL things at a HIGH price, and u dont want to BUY things at a LOW price. Sorry if u dont understand SIMPLE ECONOMICS, but its supply and demand.....
---------- Post added at 16:16 ---------- Previous post was at 16:10 ----------
RE retentions: if everyone paid the proper price there would be more money for network upgrades and a better service. if i was vm i'd put all the customers on retention offers onto a single pipe and let them fight over limited bandwidth
RE area specific throttling: its only being enabled when an area is updated to 20mb, therefore i have no throttling yet as my area hasnt been updated yet, therefore that isnt proof yet.
but still, what has BT got to do with VM? Nothing!
If virgin media cut their costs and became more efficient, they wouldnt need to charge such high prices! Price it around £25 for 20mb with 200GB cap say, so all the big time leechers will f off, and everyone wins!
Since more people would pay that extra £7 to get 20mb instead of 2mb, and VM know that no one will exceed 200GB, as opposed to some1 paying £18 and downloading 600GB+ on their unlimited 2mb!
VM could do with listening to their customers!
Berezovski
06-05-2007, 16:29
RE retentions: if everyone paid the proper price there would be more money for network upgrades and a better service. if i was vm i'd put all the customers on retention offers onto a single pipe and let them fight over limited bandwidth
Uma: ?? million
Branson:100,000K a year
Virgin name: 10% of NTL:telewest
Re-branding: God knows
I will now donate generously for Virgin NTL to stop traffic shaping, to help them build a better network, as it has spent most of its dough on the above worthy causes :rolleyes:
RE area specific throttling: its only being enabled when an area is updated to 20mb, therefore i have no throttling yet as my area hasnt been updated yet, therefore that isnt proof yet.
Thanks. How do you know?
Blimey - how much foreign TV do you actually watch?! I assume it must be fairly high bitrate... :erm:
Honestly, these measures are put in place to stop people abusing the network. And too right.
Same here, I watch a lot of foreign TV and if the limit is 350mb it will affect me greatly. I'd understand if the limit was 1GB or something, but 350mb??? and to say "it will only affect top 5% of customers" is ridiculous.
Also, calling 4pm-midnight "peak hours" is too much - when do they expect me to use the internet, during the night???
VM probably thinks we're stupid, since they plan to just take our money and give nothing in return. First Sky One and now this? As soon as I finish writing this message I'm off looking for another provider.
dcclanuk
06-05-2007, 16:36
[left]
Same here, I watch a lot of foreign TV and if the limit is 350mb it will affect me greatly. I'd understand if the limit was 1GB or something, but 350mb??? and to say "it will only affect top 5% of customers" is ridiculous.
Also, calling 4pm-Midnight "peak hours" is too much - when do they expect me to use the internet, during the night???
First Sky One now this.
Yes, that is what is ****ing me off! They dont want me to use the internet the only time I intend of using it. They are going the tiscali route, only worse since tiscali was 6pm-11pm I think...350mb.... that just makes it worse:mad:
Section 4i
http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/legal/oncable/terms.html
You will find that the STM system they are currently using is actually in
breach of their own T&C. In section 4i they state "If we make such changes
we will notify you as soon as possible." This is not happening and no-one
actually knows if they are being limited or if there is a fault in the
system. By failing to inform the customer that they have hit their "limit"
and that their connection has been "limited" they are, in effect, breaching
the contract. This leaves VM open to compensation claims as well as
prosecution by the OFT and possibly OFCOM.
If virgin media cut their costs and became more efficient, they wouldnt need to charge such high prices! Price it around £25 for 20mb with 200GB cap say, so all the big time leechers will f off, and everyone wins!
Since more people would pay that extra £7 to get 20mb instead of 2mb, and VM know that no one will exceed 200GB, as opposed to some1 paying £18 and downloading 600GB+ on their unlimited 2mb!
VM could do with listening to their customers!
That would definately interest me.
I D/L without abusing it (about 800MB/week) on my 2Mb line.
What really hacks me of is the paltry limit for us slow laners compared to that for the speed freaks.
Re retentions...I got a deal from retentions without ever threatening to leave VM. I simply pointed out that they offered less value for money than their competitors and got what amounted to a 'price match'. It was all very civilised and the retentions guy was very helpful, polite and understanding. I didn't go in with any attitude or mouth off at them, just a logical argument that was well received and I have to applaud them for that.
Thanks. How do you know?
When will this new policy be launched?
We'll start moderating the heaviest users' service at the same time we roll out the new speed increases for Broadband XL customers.
off http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/internet/traffic.html
thats the way i read it anyway, if it was being from May (any time) it wouldn't mention the speed upgrade
I really don't understand what they think when they say "abusing". "Unlimited downloading as long as there is no abusing". What does that mean? If I pay for a 2MB service, and If I download every minute of every day for a month, I'm still not "abusing" anything as my 2MB service (speed around 250kbps) will only let me download as much as my speed allows during that 30 day period.
I really don't understand what they think when they say "abusing". "Unlimited downloading as long as there is no abusing". What does that mean? If I pay for a 2MB service, and If I download every minute of every day for a month, I'm still not "abusing" anything as my 2MB service (speed around 250kbps) will only let me download as much as my speed allows during that 30 day period.
it's abusive usage because the bandwidth you are using isn't 100% for you, its like if you have 1000 cars and park them all in a supermarket car park while you do your shopping
it's abusive usage because the bandwidth you are using isn't 100% for you, its like if you have 1000 cars and park them all in a supermarket car park while you do your shopping
Or if you go to an all you can eat........................Oh boy not another pointless over done, boring, stupid analogy.
It all depends on your morals, nothing more. :rolleyes:
Or if you go to an all you can eat........................Oh boy not another pointless over done, boring, stupid analogy.
It all depends on your morals, nothing more. :rolleyes:
I think all these anology's are boring too. there is no point to them. they are all different circumstances.
What a joke. This will be a PITA for me. Working 8am till 4pm means i only get to use my connection between then and midnight. The only people that will benefit from this are the mass downloaders that have no life/job apart from sitting at their PC at 4am in the morning. :mad:
it's abusive usage because the bandwidth you are using isn't 100% for you, its like if you have 1000 cars and park them all in a supermarket car park while you do your shopping
Yes but what if I'm paying for the car park?
Putting limitations on your already limited service is like paying tax on tax.
I'm gonna download the whole of the internets incase there's a monthly cap!
LOLz @ 6 year old being a heavy, unreasonable downloader.
I'm gonna download the whole of the internets incase there's a monthly cap!
LOLz @ 6 year old being a heavy, unreasonable downloader.
Been doing that for a while now :)
monklips
06-05-2007, 18:53
first of all, im a newbie so hello people :)
this is all bang out of order! i pay for 10mb broadband and after a speed test im getting 1.5mb and have not downloaded a thing, played on my xbox or even browsed the internet! im losing patience with VM now, its one thing after another since the change over. not happy :(
first of all, im a newbie so hello people :)
this is all bang out of order! i pay for 10mb broadband and after a speed test im getting 1.5mb and have not downloaded a thing, played on my xbox or even browsed the internet! im losing patience with VM now, its one thing after another since the change over. not happy :(
Hello newbie :)
Things can only get worse :D
Berezovski
06-05-2007, 19:46
first of all, im a newbie so hello people :)
this is all bang out of order! i pay for 10mb broadband and after a speed test im getting 1.5mb and have not downloaded a thing, played on my xbox or even browsed the internet! im losing patience with VM now, its one thing after another since the change over. not happy :(
It is unlikely to be traffic shaping as it is appears to implemented only in areas that they upgraded in 20Mbs. Give faults a call.:)
But the confusion is going to be such that Virgin NTL will have no choice to withdraw this half baked moronic shaping before even starts nationwide
Well I am currently getting discount due to **ss poor connection on the 10 meg.
I have had a cable re-pull from the house to the box on the street and new cable on the inside of the house 2 yes 2 new modems.
Guess what I still have the problem with only reaching between 3 and 5 meg, my measured down load speed in safe mode with networking and normal boot on 3 computers and measured by engineers was roughly between 300 to 400 KB/s.
All I am told by tech support is that they are aware that there is a problem but there is no date for the fix just that they know of the problem and they even mention on some conversations that I am on a over subbed system.
This has been going on for a few months now on and off and due to this I have had my bill for this months BB refunded and a have a period of time where I am now only paying half price.
Has I refuse to drop down in connection speed on a broken system until it is fixed.
To top that I am not a heavy downloader unlike some my useage for this month is only 15 gig as I run a small game server and was holding out for the 20 meg.
So until VM fix there crap I will keep taking the offers/discounts.
My mission in life now is to get at least 10 meg for a period of more then 2 weeks from VM.
Rant over........... Post area is DE21
---------- Post added at 15:43 ---------- Previous post was at 15:42 ----------
Well said that man :tu: :tu: :tu:
it is not well said as a matter of fact it is quite possibly one of the stupidest things i have ever heard, if that was the case how many people would leave there broadband ? well over %90, they should NOT ADVERTISE UNLIMITED BROADBAND IF THEY SIMPLY REFUSE TO PROVIDE IT !!
Sirpingalot
06-05-2007, 23:34
Technically, there's a change in the terms & conditions which enables those of you who are binded to the previous contact to simply leave.
---------- Post added at 23:34 ---------- Previous post was at 23:32 ----------
I'm staying though, definately. Well, as long as VM don't do anything silly.
alferret
07-05-2007, 00:25
it is not well said as a matter of fact it is quite possibly one of the stupidest things i have ever heard, if that was the case how many people would leave there broadband ? well over %90, they should NOT ADVERTISE UNLIMITED BROADBAND IF THEY SIMPLY REFUSE TO PROVIDE IT !!
Oh no its not!!!
Oh no its not!!!
Oh yes it isssss. It's behind you !!!!! (well my connection is, lagging behind now as usual).
Sherlock614
07-05-2007, 11:39
Note: If you reach the limit at 23:59, you’ll still get four slow hours.
Again, for the big family with multi computers, this isn't going to justify having 20mb.
Getting 4 slow hours from, say 19:00 onwards? Can't see it being popular.
But the confusion is going to be such that Virgin NTL will have no choice to withdraw this half baked moronic shaping before even starts nationwide
I wouldnt bet on it :)
This shaping is good and is completely fair imo, and thats coming from a 10MB user. If you arent happy with the shaping, upgrade your broadband tier, its quiet simple.
In a few months time you will all wonder what the fuss was about, and the people that are threatening to leave (should) have gone to ADSL by then :)
Which of course wont be shaped!!!! My word some people are in for a surprise!
dcclanuk
07-05-2007, 12:21
I wouldnt bet on it :)
This shaping is good and is completely fair imo, and thats coming from a 10MB user. If you arent happy with the shaping, upgrade your broadband tier, its quiet simple.
In a few months time you will all wonder what the fuss was about, and the people that are threatening to leave (should) have gone to ADSL by then :)
Which of course wont be shaped!!!! My word some people are in for a surprise!
thats coz u dont have a 350mb QUOTA. 3GB is more than plenty I agree for normal usage. Since we are ALL on UNLIMITED usage, and people paying more are getting higher speeds after being shaped, surely the QUOTAS should be higher for the lower tiers?
---------- Post added at 12:21 ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 ----------
Technically, there's a change in the terms & conditions which enables those of you who are binded to the previous contact to simply leave.
---------- Post added at 23:34 ---------- Previous post was at 23:32 ----------
I'm staying though, definately. Well, as long as VM don't do anything silly.
What more can they do? I guess extending the peak hours and reducing the QUOTAS further is the only thing :(:erm:
Yes, people can leave due to this being such a BIG CHANGE to the contract!
reptonised
07-05-2007, 12:24
I'm not fussed about being shaped to 5mbit if I download 3gb, as it wouldnt affect me really. However I seem to be getting throttled down to 5mbit at the moment. All yesterday and when I checked it this morning I was running half the speed I usually get. While the day before I was getting 10.
If I pay for 10mbit and decide one evening to download a patch for a game I want to be able to download it at 10mbit, since that's what service I pay for.
Is it likely that this is due to the shaping etc or more likely just slow service ?
I'm not fussed about being shaped to 5mbit if I download 3gb, as it wouldnt affect me really. However I seem to be getting throttled down to 5mbit at the moment. All yesterday and when I checked it this morning I was running half the speed I usually get. While the day before I was getting 10.
If I pay for 10mbit and decide one evening to download a patch for a game I want to be able to download it at 10mbit, since that's what service I pay for.
Is it likely that this is due to the shaping etc or more likely just slow service ?
It's more likely that your UBR is overloaded. one of the reasons why they are throttling people for in the first place.
reptonised
07-05-2007, 12:37
Ah well, thought as much. I'm in livingston so I know there is a support ticket still open for the edinburgh area slow speeds. Up until now my connection has been perfect, which was how I stumbled upon this forum.
I wouldnt bet on it :)
This shaping is good and is completely fair imo, and thats coming from a 10MB user. If you arent happy with the shaping, upgrade your broadband tier, its quiet simple.
I'm sure lots of people will be willing to give you their addresses so you can send them the money to enable them to do this.
Yes it will effect me cause I pay for 10mb (soon to be 20mb) and I only use my pc during peak times. So I want to be able to download at these speeds if I find traffic reshaping effects my connection then I may as well swith my services especially with the trouble i,m having with my phoneline for the past 3 months and is still not sorted plus they have made me pay £120 to sort it which is crap imho
DarkGashX
07-05-2007, 15:23
Looks like im going to have to stop watching HD Trailers and Joost.
Anyone got any ideas on what we can do to fight back?
Nope it won't effect me as I never download 750mb in a day...
brundles
07-05-2007, 16:14
This shaping is good and is completely fair imo thats coming from a 10MB user. If you arent happy with the shaping, upgrade your broadband tier, its quiet simple.
10meg users are the only ones with a fair limit. Why should I be forced to pay an extra £12 a month (as the top tier is becoming £37), or nearly 50%, just to achieve the same as I was getting on the (already overpriced) 4meg package? Hmm, looking at it % wise perhaps they're taking a leaf from Sky's book.
If they're going to start charging for capacity then they should look at switching to a single speed across the board. Oh, hang on, the network couldn't support that either.
At the moment I don't think I will go over the 750Mb limit very often, but if it does it's going to have a serious effect on my usage. We use a VOIP line as our primary line in the house, and I have another VOIP line provided by my employer as I'm on call. The QoS in the router ensures good quality on those but it can't do that if VM are messing around with the line capability :mad:
Edit: With fantastic timing, I see that CF are advertising something called NetFlow Analyzer: "Take control of your bandwidth NOW!!!" :p:
Edit: With fantastic timing, I see that CF are advertising something called NetFlow Analyzer: "Take control of your bandwidth NOW!!!" :p:
:confused::confused: where?
brundles
07-05-2007, 16:35
:confused::confused: where?
To be fair, it was in the Google ads at the top so it's probably not a deliberate choice of advert :).
BlackAle
07-05-2007, 17:18
10meg users are the only ones with a fair limit. Why should I be forced to pay an extra £12 a month (as the top tier is becoming £37), or nearly 50%, just to achieve the same as I was getting on the (already overpriced) 4meg package? Hmm, looking at it % wise perhaps they're taking a leaf from Sky's book.
If you think what you pay is overpriced, move to a different provider which provides better value for you, that's the great thing about a competitive marketplace.
Personally I think Virgin's broadband is very well priced.
boodykaka
07-05-2007, 17:39
If you think what you pay is overpriced, move to a different provider which provides better value for you, that's the great thing about a competitive marketplace.
Personally I think Virgin's broadband prices are very well priced.
Personaly i think that your personal thought's are not right
In the terms & conditions it repeatedly states 'the top 5%' what exactly does this mean? Are they talking about capping the 5% worst downloaders or what. Reading it gives me that impression but obviously it won't be that after reading some of the thread
janipewter
07-05-2007, 17:55
I don't think traffic shaping will ever affect me, even if I did manage to download 3GB or whatever on this ****poor connection, it would throttle me to a speed 5 times faster than what I currently receive anyway.
BlackAle
07-05-2007, 18:49
Personaly i think that your personal thought's are not right
I don't see how you're in a position to judge that.
THIS IS CRAP........WHY?
Because i feel traffic shapped 24/7 recently, 4mps working at around 1.5 according to some speed tests i have done, suppose i would be classed in the brighton area. Anyone else on 4mps having an awfull time,Why do some speed tests say like 1.5mbps but then when i download its my normal speed,mostly anyway? WHAT THE HELL IS UP WITH THIS CRAP, My ADSL with Freeserve worked better then what i am getting with VM right now. And i was not that close to my exchange and still achieved 512kbps back in the day with no latency problems, im starting to wonder why you lot slate ADSL, im sure it works better.
I'm currently paying the £37/month for the 10mb connection, but since I'm sharing the connection with my older brother he downloads and uploads alot, I on the other hand don't download alot, I rarely upload a file apart from a picture or two over msn, imageshack. I do however play alot of world of warcraft, which i know for a fact doesn't use that much bandwidth little to none.
/sigh so yeah, it effects me big, for all of his uploading/downloading I get the lag in the game and over voip
homealone
07-05-2007, 18:59
THIS IS CRAP........WHY?
Because i feel traffic shapped 24/7 recently, 4mps working at around 1.5 according to some speed tests i have done, suppose i would be classed in the brighton area. Anyone else on 4mps having an awfull time,Why do some speed tests say like 1.5mbps but then when i download its my normal speed,mostly anyway? WHAT THE HELL IS UP WITH THIS CRAP, My ADSL with Freeserve worked better then what i am getting with VM right now. And i was not that close to my exchange and still achieved 512kbps back in the day with no latency problems, im starting to wonder why you lot slate ADSL, im sure it works better.
If a speed test says slow speed, but your downloads are normal speed, then it
is the speed test which is 'crap'. ;)
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2007/05/182.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
4MBPS :(
What the hell is up, Im in Brighton area
10meg users are the only ones with a fair limit. Why should I be forced to pay an extra £12 a month (as the top tier is becoming £37), or nearly 50%, just to achieve the same as I was getting on the (already overpriced) 4meg package? Hmm, looking at it % wise perhaps they're taking a leaf from Sky's book.
If they're going to start charging for capacity then they should look at switching to a single speed across the board. Oh, hang on, the network couldn't support that either.
At the moment I don't think I will go over the 750Mb limit very often, but if it does it's going to have a serious effect on my usage. We use a VOIP line as our primary line in the house, and I have another VOIP line provided by my employer as I'm on call. The QoS in the router ensures good quality on those but it can't do that if VM are messing around with the line capability :mad:
Edit: With fantastic timing, I see that CF are advertising something called NetFlow Analyzer: "Take control of your bandwidth NOW!!!" :p:
I'm in the same situation, my router (dgl-4300) has built in QoS (it;s aimed at gamers, but I just use it as a cheap solution) it measures the uplink dynamically when booting up, so if I do go above my limit, the routers config is going to be completely out of wack in the QoS ruling.
I'm not entirely sure how I'll get around this, I can manually set the upload rate but then I guess it'll mean I'll be shaped by my own router even when I have the full speed from Virgin Media.
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2007/05/181.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
And then thats me clicking on Amsterdam, WHAT. I dont get this,
homealone
07-05-2007, 19:07
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2007/05/181.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
And then thats me clicking on Amsterdam, WHAT. I dont get this,
I've seen so many conflicting results posted for that speed test that I have formed the opinion it isn't a reliable means of measuring performance.
Too many people using certain of their servers at the same time seems to be the problem, presumably Amsterdam has some headroom, atm. ;)
BlackAle
07-05-2007, 19:10
I've seen so many conflicting results posted for that speed test that I have formed the opinion it isn't a reliable means of measuring performance.
Agreed, speedtest.net gives me about 1.5mbits (I'm on 10mbit), though downloading a trailer off apple.com gives me my full 10mbit.
downquark1
07-05-2007, 19:15
Personally I think if everyone stopped running speed tests every 5 min they probably won't need to start traffic shaping.
Remember the internet is not a big truck, its a series of tubes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_series_of_tubes) (;)) and its only as fast as the most clogged one between u and the server.
Yeah but even so i can feel it when changing web pages, slight delay then the page will come, why is this? I noticed on NTHELL that i do not go through brighton proxy anymore, is this an advantage or disadvantage? what can i do to make sure my pages are delivered to me quickly?
downquark1
07-05-2007, 19:39
Yeah but even so i can feel it when changing web pages, slight delay then the page will come, why is this? I noticed on NTHELL that i do not go through brighton proxy anymore, is this an advantage or disadvantage? what can i do to make sure my pages are delivered to me quickly?
That can be due to a lot of factors. The DNS lookup may have been laggy at that point, you could try using different DNS servers.
The latency to that server maybe bad.
If you are on a very low latency network browsing simple websites can be faster than a 20mb connection. My friends 2mb zen connection often feels faster than my 16mb
wow can you please give me a little info on how i chose a different DNS server (proxy thing) please, and which may be best for me to try, thanks,
wow can you please give me a little info on how i chose a different DNS server (proxy thing) please, and which may be best for me to try, thanks,
http://www.opendns.com/start/
downquark1
07-05-2007, 19:56
wow can you please give me a little info on how i chose a different DNS server (proxy thing) please, and which may be best for me to try, thanks,
Well my home connection (i'm at uni at the moment) is on SKY broadband and I use opendns.
The instructions for using it are here: http://www.opendns.com/start/windows_xp.php
I have no idea which are the definitive best servers for you but opendns seem snappier than sky's.
A dns lookup only occurs the 1st time u visit a new domain name in a while, so to test it visit different sites you haven't visited today. e.g. www.something.com www.bbc.co.uk www.apple.com etc.
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