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England outclassed
Ireland 43 - 13 England
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/live_scores/default.stm
Good game :tu:
I've always said if Wales aren't going to win the 6 nations then I'd want Ireland to take it :tu:
England will struggle to win anything if they don't resolve their biggest problem which is their ill-discipline. Giving away needless penalties will get you nothing but trouble in a match, giving away a penalty straight after you score is just stupid. Nothing has been done for the last year or so to actually bring some players back into line as far as their discipline is concerned and it has shown on a number of occasions.
Ireland will take some beating as they have shown they have the skill and more importantly the control needed to lock a match down.
Delta Whiskey
24-02-2007, 20:05
Italy win, Ireland win. Wales win?
DW
I think the only thing Wales will win this year is the wooden spoon.
Agree about England - it's about time Grewcock was dispensed with as his ill discipline cost England very dear again. Having said that Ireland were by far the best team on the day and it's only right that they won. No fair minded person minds being beaten by a better team and the reaction of their crowd to the National Anthem was exceptional.
Well done Ireland from a very proud Englishman!
Cobbydaler
24-02-2007, 20:53
Andy Farrell should go as well....
Farrell is a novice and I think needs a bit more time in the A team. The main problem for England was the lineout and lack of good, quick, possession. Discipline was key and the Irish scored two tries whilst England were down to 14 men. It really is time that it's made crystal clear to those who blatantly and studpidly infringe that they will be dropped!
Shadow Demon UK
24-02-2007, 21:17
Andy Farrell should go as well....
I think he needs time to settle, he was the best rugby league player i have ever seen play and i'm sure he will be able to transfer his skills to union. I think it's a bit unfair on him as he has been thrown into the deep end playing six nations rugby for England in his first few games playing union.
Delta Whiskey
24-02-2007, 21:18
I think the only thing Wales will win this year is the wooden spoon.
I fear you're right. 29-14 at the moment with an hour gone...
DW
Brilliant game, think I have just about calmed down.
Jonny Who? ;)
Brilliant game, think I have just about calmed down.
Jonny Who? ;)
Well only the 4th highest international points scorer of all time if I recall correctly - and that despite being only 27 and having been out of international rugby for over 3 years. Not bad I'd say :)
---------- Post added at 21:44 ---------- Previous post was at 21:40 ----------
I think he needs time to settle, he was the best rugby league player i have ever seen play and i'm sure he will be able to transfer his skills to union. I think it's a bit unfair on him as he has been thrown into the deep end playing six nations rugby for England in his first few games playing union.
Agree there were far more experienced players out there who didn't perform and had no excuses.
Whataloadofcrap.
All that's left for us is a victory against the Saesneg.
Shadow Demon UK
24-02-2007, 21:47
Wales - The new Italy :p:
Wales - The new Italy :p:
Well to be fair if Gavin Henson spent a little less time waxing his legs and styling his hair they'd have a better chance. :)
It wasn't that long ago we were whipping you lot silly - and those days will return soon :)
It wasn't that long ago we were whipping you lot silly - and those days will return soon :)
Lived through that era Russ ( :( ) but don't hold your breath :)
Lived through that era Russ
I'm sure you did - it was 2004 :rofl:
I'm sure you did - it was 2004 :rofl:
Ahhh but that was a mere blip boyo :) I'm (sadly) talking about the days of Gareth Edwards, JPR Williams, JJ Williams, Phil Bennett et al. It'll be a long time before Wales reach that level again.
A mere blip? Beating all 5 other nations? Riiight.....
homealone
24-02-2007, 22:13
Ahhh but that was a mere blip boyo :) I'm (sadly) talking about the days of Gareth Edwards, JPR Williams, JJ Williams et al. It'll be a long time before Wales reach that level again.
and Barry John & anyone called Quinnell :tu:
A mere blip? Beating all 5 other nations? Riiight.....
Well as an Englishman I don't count Wales beating anyone else as relevant :)
Btw what have wales done since ? lol
Well as an Englishman I don't count Wales beating anyone else as relevant :)
You're English? I'd never have guessed...
Btw what have wales done since ? lol
Well to be fair, you Saesneg have hardly set the world alight since 2003.
I actually googled the Welsh success at rugby against England Russ.....
see attached for the result............. :jk: :google:
:D
Well I can help you with that one - 2004, when Saesneg went from heros to zeros :D
Still, in the words of Kelly Jones...
We don't wanna be,
Your enemy,
But when we're on the field,
It's red, white and green,
Got beat by the Irish,
Got beat by the Scots,
The French had a struggle,
But you're the one we want,
We want...
As long as we beat the English,
As long as we beat the English,
As long as we beat the English, we don't care
As long as we beat the English,
As long as we beat the English,
As long as we beat the English, we don't care
We don't care
:D
Delta Whiskey
24-02-2007, 23:58
It wasn't that long ago we were whipping you lot silly - and those days will return soon :)
The Seventies. I know because I was there. We thought it wouldn't end...
Gareth & JPR will we see their like again? <Getting misty eyed at the memories>
DW :)
Just back in. Was at the Bot in Belfast to watch the game, atmosphere was great almost as good as being at Croker. Great game. If only we had kept our concentration at the end of the French game.
Well only the 4th highest international points scorer of all time if I recall correctly - and that despite being only 27 and having been out of international rugby for over 3 years. Not bad I'd say :)
If I could make my little winkie face bold for you I would?
He is a good kicker, hense his offer to go and play American Football to help out with their kicking.
You're English? I'd never have guessed...
Well to be fair, you Saesneg have hardly set the world alight since 2003.
That's true and you haven't heard me gloating about our past glories have you. I may be born English (albeit with a fair bit of Irish blood in me) but I'm not arrogant and don't believe in the sort of bigoted stereotypes you seem to.
Now now boys play nicely or someone will take the ball away ;)
Just back in. Was at the Bot in Belfast to watch the game, atmosphere was great almost as good as being at Croker. Great game. If only we had kept our concentration at the end of the French game.
Yes - it reminded me of the World Cup game v. Australia a few years ago which Ireland really should have won but didn't.
---------- Post added at 10:51 ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 ----------
Now now boys play nicely or someone will take the ball away ;)
He he he - yeah well the way our national football, cricket and rugby teams are playing at the moment that'd probably help :D
That's true and you haven't heard me gloating about our past glories have you.
No but I'm sure it'll only be a matter of time - see the World Cup/Euro tournament threads ;)
I may be born English (albeit with a fair bit of Irish blood in me) but I'm not arrogant and don't believe in the sort of bigoted stereotypes you seem to.
Not sure I've stated I believe any bigoted stereotypes, in fact I usually get all the usual sheep jokes thrown at me. Actually I'm half English but my loyalties stay this side of the brigde :)
Well what's going on then??
England beating France (the Grand Slam favourites) well after being so poor against Ireland and making so many changes.
Ireland making hard work of Scotland to win the Triple Crown and no doubt still ruing their moment of madness against the French.
Wales - well who's going to explain that then? Now staring the wooden spoon in the face.
Italy - well they've won 2 games and the Six Nations needs them to come to the party.
Plenty of surprises then :)
Ah well, over to Kelly Jones from the Stereophonics....
We don't wanna be,
Your enemy,
But when we're on the field,
It's red, white and green,
Got beat by the Irish,
Got beat by the Scots,
The French had a struggle,
But you're the one we want,
We want...
As long as we beat the English,
As long as we beat the English,
As long as we beat the English, we don't care
As long as we beat the English,
As long as we beat the English,
As long as we beat the English, we don't care
We don't care
You must like that song as it's the second time you've posted it :)
Maybe the Welsh team would do a lot better if they forgot about ancient hatreds and got on with playing the game. Surely there are more important things in life - even in Wales?
You must like that song as it's the second time you've posted it :)
Yeah, this time I mean it :D
Maybe the Welsh team would do a lot better if they forgot about ancient hatreds and got on with playing the game. Surely there are more important things in life - even in Wales?
Ah right, you're the one who thinks I believe in, what was it, 'bigoted stereotypes'? And now it's "ancient hatreds"? Sorry to burst your bubble but let me quote one line from the above song which I think you might have missed.....
We don't wanna be,
Your enemy
By the way, I'm half English.....but my heart is Welsh ;)
Well Russ I've never been a great Stereophonics fan so can't comment on their lyrics :) Anyway if you care to read my post a little more thoroughly you'll notice that I didn't state that you believe in ancient hatreds - I implied that some of the Welsh team do and my comment is based on numerous articles and quotes by Welsh players I've read over the years.
;)
Nope - it's a bit difficult linking to items on past sports programmes and articles in newspapers but there have been numerous examples over the years and if you have time and want to find some just try Google. The Scots even tried dredging up Bannockburn to galvanise their team at Murrayfield not so long ago. Time moves on surely? If we can forgive (if not forget) the awful events of the 2 world wars, surely the Celts can get to grips with their past.
Nope - it's a bit difficult linking to items on past sports programmes and articles in newspapers but there have been numerous examples over the years and if you have time and want to find some just try Google.
No, if you're going to make claims like that then the responsibility is on you to back it up. At the moment all we've got is an unsubstanciated claim which happens to fit in with your way of thinking.
The Scots even tried dredging up Bannockburn to galvanise their team at Murrayfield not so long ago.
Got a link for that?
Time moves on surely? If we can forgive (if not forget) the awful events of the 2 world wars, surely the Celts can get to grips with their past.
True however just as any English sports fan (who of course, never have a dig at us celts) will tell you, friendly rivally between the home nations is the birthright of every Briton :)
Don't need a link for the 'Bannockburn' story - Along with several million others I saw the match and witnessed the sad histrionics at Murrayfield and likewise I've heard/read former and existing Welsh players express anti-English sentiments many, many, times. My point remains that there are surely more effective and more positive means by which to motivate a team.
By the way I don't have links for lots of other things either but didn't realise that was a prerequisite for having a debate on CF or have the T&C's changed? If so can you provide me with a link for the relevant rules?
Cheers :)
Don't need a link for the 'Bannockburn' story - Along with several million others I saw the match and witnessed the sad histrionics at Murrayfield
But as you know, that was just a minority of 4 people.
and likewise I've heard/read former and existing Welsh players express anti-English sentiments many, many, times
No you haven't. Come on now :)
My point remains that there are surely more effective and more positive means by which to motivate a team.
Whatever gets 'em going I spose.
By the way I don't have links for lots of other things either but didn't realise that was a prerequisite for having a debate on CF or have the T&C's changed? If so can you provide me with a link for the relevant rules?
This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette) should give you an idea of the basics, although it's entirely up to you if you want to post links or not, but bear in mind it's likely no-one will take you seriously if you make wild claims without backing them up. I could say all English people are inherantly racist however I have no basis for that belief so it would be daft to post it. However if I did have evidence, that would be different. By the way before anyone moans, no I don't think that about the Saesneg.
Cheers :)
You're welcome.
Ah by the way - rugby. "We don't want to be, your enemy...." :D
Russ some of your statements make sense but you seem to attribute quite a few falsehoods to me. I did not say, have never said and do not think that all Welsh, Scots, Irish (or any other nationality for that matter) are anything in particular - like everyone else there are all sorts in every race, creed etc. The Scottish people were not to blame for the Bannockburn histrionics - the SRFU were! What I wrote was that over the years I'd heard and read many vitriolic statements aimed at the English by current and former Welsh players, that these were based mainly of historical events and that it was about time things like that were forgotten and more positive motivational tools employed. That's not quite the same thing as claiming all Welsh people are racist which is an analogy you seem to feel is appropriate. In fact, rather than being a prejudiced and bitter outlook, I think that's a much more healthy way for us all to look to the future.
Incidentally, 5 minutes on Google earlier yielded this quote:
In 1977 Phil Bennett's pre-game pep talk before facing England produced a memorable quote: "Look what these *******s have done to Wales. They've taken our coal, our water, our steel. They buy our houses and they only live in them for a fortnight every 12 months. What have they given us? Absolutely nothing. We've been exploited, raped, controlled and punished by the English - and that's who you are playing this afternoon."
I don't intend to waste more of my time searching for other examples to illustrate my point but I dare say, sadly, that yet more nationalistic vitriol will emerge in the lead up to the forthcoming Wales v. England match.
1977? I was only 3 then :D
Yes, I'm sure there'll be plenty of nasty comments in the run up and during the match.
St Paddies day
3 Rugby Matches + Booze = plan for a damn good day!
:beer: :cleader: :drunk:
Agree - it should be great - too close to call between Ireland and France for the Six Nations Championship but I'll be hoping the boyos in Green come up trumps as I feel they've been the best team throughout. As for Wales v. England, well this close to the World Cup, a good performance from Ashton's experimental team is vital but it's a lot to ask.
Hmmmm.... well....... late tries seem to be the curse of Ireland. They let France well and truly off the hook a few weeks ago, gave away an unnecessary late try today in Rome and now France have scored in the last minute of the game against Scotland to wine the 6 nations. They surely must be wondering what they have to do to win the Grand Slam.
Anyone else enjoying this? :)
Hell Yes!! Bloomin Marvellous young chap! Tallyho
Rather!!!
Ah one-two-three-four.... http://youtube.com/watch?v=qHklhgRJKQ4
:D
Chimaera
17-03-2007, 20:32
Very good!
Paul's gone suspiciously quiet since the rugby this afternoon - and even West Ham won too! :cleader:
So France who shouldn't have won won and Ireland who should have won didn't! Italy win 2 matches. Scotland pick up the wooden spoon. Wales manage a win at last and England continue stuttering with a team of newbies. Not sure many people would've predicted the outcome of this years 6 Nations but that's what makes it a great tournament. Aside from New Zealand choking again I can't honestly see anyone from the northern hemisphere threatening them in the World Cup this summer.
Right let's get a reality check for all the Welsh people who think we are going to win the world cup after today's result WRONG!!!!!! Osem's assessment is about right
We played an average England side and if Harry Ellis had stayed on we would have been looking at a whitewash. Stephen Jones must now be looking at playing for Llanelli and can forget a trip to Oz in May and will now be going to the World Cup as understudy to Hook. Problem is in Wales we have a bad season and it's always down to the England game
There is immense promise in this side but the WRU allowed the best coach in Wales to go (he's now coaching Mumbles seconds) for reasons we will never know. Get him back and we will then have a half decent side but nothing that can compete with anything NZ can produce. I watch Super 14s every week and the difference is huge Canterbury are basically a shadow NZ side. the rugby is nothing like we see English Premier or Magners or Heineken cup
Best thing about today was the forwards (Ryan Jones especially) fronted up for the first time
I'll be sneaking round to my Brother-in-laws house, and dropping off something Welsh onto his doorstep. :)
Wonder if I can get cawl in a tin?
---------- Post added at 22:42 ---------- Previous post was at 22:37 ----------
Right let's get a reality check for all the Welsh people who think we are going to win the world cup after today's result WRONG!!!!!! Osem's assessment is about right
We played an average England side and if Harry Ellis had stayed on we would have been looking at a whitewash. Stephen Jones must now be looking at playing for Llanelli and can forget a trip to Oz in May and will now be going to the World Cup as understudy to Hook. Problem is in Wales we have a bad season and it's always down to the England game
There is immense promise in this side but the WRU allowed the best coach in Wales to go (he's now coaching Mumbles seconds) for reasons we will never know. Get him back and we will then have a half decent side but nothing that can compete with anything NZ can produce. I watch Super 14s every week and the difference is huge Canterbury are basically a shadow NZ side. the rugby is nothing like we see English Premier or Magners or Heineken cup
Best thing about today was the forwards (Ryan Jones especially) fronted up for the first time
Agreed, although given Mr Jones Scarlets roots a place in Oz is likely.
The All Blacks will romp home with this. They travel well, they play at a pace 2-3 times faster than the Northern half. France and possibly Ireland may put up a good show, but neither can honestly think they can beat them.
Wales will be lucky to get through the group stages.
Have you also noticed how grey Gareth Jenkins hair is getting, I think the stress is starting to show.
---------- Post added at 22:47 ---------- Previous post was at 22:42 ----------
Two seasons ago we won the Grandslam, and came within a point of New Zealand, or was that the year before?
Where the heck did it go all wrong this season?
Surely not Gareth Jenkins?
New Zealand's biggest problem will be their own attitude and expectation. They have all the talent in the world but in terms of World Cup competitions they have badly underperformed. Who knows what'll happen this time around.
There is no doubt that the Welsh do have some great natural talent in their team but I actually think that the fact they put so much emphasis on beating England disguises much of what is wrong in their game and distracts them from far better things. Nice as it obviously is, beating an inexperienced England side really should be scant consolation for a team which comes joint bottom of the championship but it'll be viewed by many as the most important thing to come out of this championship.
England have at long last made much needed changes, albeit at least 2 years too late. Ashton must now have total faith in this side if they are to have any chance of getting to the final rounds of the World Cup. Boring it won't be though :)
What a good match between Leicester and the Ospreys - highly entertaining even if there were too many mistakes.
England 62-5 Wales
England's experimental team run up a record score against Wales as they put a second-string Principality side to the sword
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/6928485.stm
Sorry Russ, I just couldn't resist it :disturbd:
If you hadn't mentioned it, I would have.
Utter utter utter shambles :afire:
Losing to a team like England is bad enough, but that sort of score truly shows the WRU couldn't organise the proverbial 'drink up' in a brewery. Sack the lot.
If you hadn't mentioned it, I would have.
Utter utter utter shambles :afire:
Losing to a team like England is bad enough, but that sort of score truly shows the WRU couldn't organise the proverbial 'drink up' in a brewery. Sack the lot.
Wales did only have a "second string" side out though Russ, not sure that it makes it any easier to bear though.
TheDaddy
04-08-2007, 19:49
If you hadn't mentioned it, I would have.
Utter utter utter shambles :afire:
Losing to a team like England is bad enough, but that sort of score truly shows the WRU couldn't organise the proverbial 'drink up' in a brewery. Sack the lot.
A team like England :confused: what you mean the World Champions
Yes, the team who won the World Cup but haven't played like it since.
TheDaddy
04-08-2007, 20:02
Yes, the team who won the World Cup but haven't played like it since.
Big deal we are still the Champs
I'm not denying Jonny Wilkinson won the World Cup but England haven't played a tenth like champions since. They've been distinctly average ever since and went from heros to zeros pretty quickly. This is what I mean by 'a team like England'.
TheDaddy
04-08-2007, 20:14
I'm not denying Jonny Wilkinson won the World Cup but England haven't played a tenth like champions since. They've been distinctly average ever since and went from heros to zeros pretty quickly. This is what I mean by 'a team like England'.
Rebuilding old chap rebuilding ;)
In that case today's result was awful against a 'rebuilding' team like England ;)
Enjoyable though it was, last week's result against Wales is irrelevant and means nothing in terms of the World Cup.
My memories of the last World Cup are that England didn't play particularly well but managed to grind out the results that mattered. That's fine by me as, although I much prefer more flowing rugby, it takes 2 teams to make that happen and there are no prizes for playing attractive rugby and losing.
England's very variable form in the last few years has probably done them a favour as very few people seem to give them a chance. The pressure England are under I believe pales into insignificance when compared to that on New Zealand who've played some astonishing rugby, have been virtually unbeatable over much of the same period and who until very recently would have been viewed as runaway favourites. Personally I think the perennial chokers may once again have peaked too early and that either South Africa or Australia will win.
I'll be very surprised if England get even to the semi-finals but then I was surprised about that last time and look what happened........
As for "heroes to zeros", there's some truth in that but at least they've been heroes :D
Scarlett
10-08-2007, 11:51
I'll be interested to see how England handle France this weekend. Especially as I'll actually be there.
As for the world cup, England will certainly make it out of the group stages but probably in second place rather than group winners almost certainly lining up a quarter final against Wales.
I don't believe that they are there yet i.e. up to the standard they were 4 years ago. Too many people left/retired and as had been said, that takes time to rebuild from. on the other hand it only takes a couple of mistakes at the wrong point and the game can go the other way.
Agree - a lot happened immediately after the last World Cup with retirements of key players and of course a succession of injuries to JW. Given all the problems of JW's successors, the latter especially not only probably cost us points in every match we played but I think took away some of the confidence and self belief that Clive Woodward inspired and which was so instrumental in England winning the cup. Having said all that, I still can't quite explain England's fairly dismal form in recdent times.
France at the weekend? Anyone's guess really. As always, a lot depends on which French team turns up. In any event it won't have much direct bearing on the coming tournament.
Hmmmmmm just been watching the Scotland v. Ireland game and from what I've seen I don't think Ireland can be accused of peaking early. :confused:
A good morale boosting win for Wales today.
And England go in the opposite direction :(
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/english/6946124.stm
I don't know if it's me but England seem to be playing by number at the moment. Wales ok it was a win but we still have the same problems lineouts and the forwards not being able to control the game. A draw would have been a fairer result Argentina would be a good outside bet IMO another couple of weeks together could bring it all together for them
Given their lack of good international competition Argentina are a very good side. From what I saw they took the game right back to Wales and were unlucky not to score what might have been the equaliser right at the end. Where were the Welsh fans though? The stadium appeared less than half full!
Not sure what any of the home nations have learned from these recent matches though. So far as England's results against France are concerned - they should have won at HQ and deserved to lose in Marseille. Having said that IIRC France have only ever been beaten there once and that was by New Zealand.
TheDaddy
19-08-2007, 10:58
So far as England's results against France are concerned - they should have won at HQ and deserved to lose in Marseille. Having said that IIRC France have only ever been beaten there once and that was by New Zealand.
Only beaten there once, by Argentina ;)
Correct - but I could have sworn I heard Bill Mclaren say it was New Zealand :confused:
Anyway it's only been done once and with England's away form have been pretty poor for the last few years there were few surprises in the result for me.
What does get up my nose is the poor discipline which doesn't help matters -penalites being given away for no good reason and costly yellow cards. I really do think the players need to grow up, control their emotions and stick to the job in hand.
pedantic
26-08-2007, 19:13
Nice easy warm up game for the french, like shelling pea's really. :D
Yup
A good win for the French, and as usual Gareth Jenkins thinks that his way of doing things in Llanelli will win things for Wales.
When will he wake up and smell the stale ale.
Nice easy warm up game for the french, like shelling pea's really. :D
Ho ho ho, like you actually saw the game :D
pedantic
26-08-2007, 19:29
Ho ho ho, like you actually saw the game :D
Watched it on the beeb Russ, it was like men against boyo's. :D
Picture quality must have been dodgy for you then, because although we were well beaten, we didn't make it easy.
pedantic
26-08-2007, 19:40
Picture quality must have been dodgy for you then, because although we were well beaten, we didn't make it easy.
So 34-7 at home, from a team who barely got out of fourth gear, isn't easy ? I think the dodgy picture you speak of, lies a little closer to home. :D
So 34-7 at home, from a team who barely got out of fourth gear, isn't easy ? I think the dodgy picture you speak of, lies a little closer to home. :D
I did say we were well beaten. But we didn't make it easy for them. The French are favourites for the World Cup and they played like it.
pedantic
26-08-2007, 19:55
I did say we were well beaten. But we didn't make it easy for them. The French are favourites for the World Cup and they played like it.
I wonder about you sometimes Russ. :spin:
I did say we were well beaten. But we didn't make it easy for them. The French are favourites for the World Cup and they played like it.
The French might be favourites from the Northern Hemisphere contingent but I'd back NZ, SA and even Australia against them in the competition.
And I don't think any of the home nations would beat any of those.
History has shown that, on their day, England, Wales and Ireland can beat pretty much any team. The problem in the World Cup is stringing together a series of those days by maintaining fitness/performance/ confidence levels and avoiding injuries to key players. I can't see any of the home teams doing that and the same goes for France who are not favourites even though they'll be at home.
The Ireland team is well dodgy currently, the match against Italy on Friday was well scary and does not inspire confidence for the world cup. Though it was brilliant to see the first Ireland match played at Ravenhill in 53 years.
Well there's a lot to be said for a good run of form just before the tournament but the flip side is perhaps unrealistic expectation and pressure on the team. I think I'd rather be in England's situation than NZ's to be honest.
France having a bit of a nightmare v. Argentina right now - 17-6 after 35 mins.
Think there may be riots in Paris if this carries on :)
Wheres my F1??
Blooming rugby 7 hours tomorrow
Wheres my F1??
Blooming rugby 7 hours tomorrow
Well it's only once every 4 years isn't it :)
---------- Post added at 21:51 ---------- Previous post was at 21:34 ----------
And the French LOSE 17-12 !!!!!!!
:D :D
Well done Argentina !
Shadow Demon UK
07-09-2007, 21:54
And the French LOSE 17-12 !!!!!!!
:D :D
Well done Argentina !
I'm suprised how poor the French were after very good performances recently, but it goes to show anything can happen in big competitions.
Great result for Argentina and how well they played French too cocky maybe??
Strange team the French you don't know which one will turn up.
We'll see what Wales can do on Sunday, don't think that one is cut and dried either
"Strange team the French you don't know which one will turn up."
A bit like my wife ......... :D
However, the Argentine defence was awesome - once upon a time they'd have crumbled in the last 20 mins but not now!
I'd like to see them in a 7 nations championship but they'd have to be based in Europe, Spain ?
Hmmm - England 28 - US 10 - well at least nobody can accuse us of peaking too early lol
Not a good day for North America :D
Wilko out, Barkley out, Vickery out :(
Farrell to play at Fly Half :confused: :confused:
I reckon England must be hoping to confuse South Africa to defeat
Shadow Demon UK
12-09-2007, 14:13
Wilko out, Barkley out, Vickery out :(
Farrell to play at Fly Half :confused: :confused:
I reckon England must be hoping to confuse South Africa to defeat
I think he will do well there, he used to first receiver when playing for Wigan which isn't much different to fly half. But i can't see England doing well in the match as a whole to be honest.
I think he will do well there, he used to first receiver when playing for Wigan which isn't much different to fly half. But i can't see England doing well in the match as a whole to be honest.
Bet he got a lot more time to clear the ball with Wigan than he'll get from South Africa - he'll be their top target and it'll be a stern test.
Yes the injuries haven't helped but England were bereft of ideas and attacking flair. Just as I thought, Farrell a fish out of water - soooooooooo slow on the ball! Perry devoid of any urgency or innovation. Half time, England not in the match and never looked like scoring - time for bold changes in a last ditch attempt to salvage something?? No chance - leave them for when it's far too late. I've never understood the attitude which afflicts England rugby/football/cricket coaches/managers whereby despite their teams being totally outplayed and them having nothing whatsoever to lose by trying something novel, they leave it 'til 15 minutes before the end of play to ring the changes.
:confused:
Things can only get better however and at least a cricket score was avoided (just) by hook or by crook.........
Shadow Demon UK
14-09-2007, 21:58
You should have watched the Rugby League on Sky. That would have taught the union players a thing or two, 100mph for 80 minutes, great game compared to this :)
I was going to come on here and larf my butt off, till I realised we've got Australia tomorrow :(
Yes the injuries haven't helped but England were bereft of ideas and attacking flair. Just as I thought, Farrell a fish out of water - soooooooooo slow on the ball! Perry devoid of any urgency or innovation. Half time, England not in the match and never looked like scoring - time for bold changes in a last ditch attempt to salvage something?? No chance - leave them for when it's far too late. I've never understood the attitude which afflicts England rugby/football/cricket coaches/managers whereby despite their teams being totally outplayed and them having nothing whatsoever to lose by trying something novel, they leave it 'til 15 minutes before the end of play to ring the changes.
:confused:
Things can only get better however and at least a cricket score was avoided (just) by hook or by crook.........
I actually turned over after England went 10 - 0 down.
Very Poor tactically :(
I actually turned over after England went 10 - 0 down.
Very Poor tactically :(
Yes very poor indeed. Could it all be a tactic to lure the rest into a false sense of security ?????
LOL
I was going to come on here and larf my butt off, till I realised we've got Australia tomorrow :(
Yes I'd wait for the result of that match before any gloating ......... ;)
With home advantage in such a key World Cup game Wales have a massive advantage over the likes of England however I don't think England would've beaten SA with the side they had available even at Twickenham. As for Wales, well I can still foresee see a comfortable Aussie win but this is the World Cup and anything can happen.....
I have a feeling this is going to be a slaughter :(
Good start for Wales - Larkham is out.
There truly is a mighty big gulf between the Southern Hemisphere and home nations sides right now. Sadly I know whose rugby I prefer to watch :(
Well, Wales lost, thanks to giving away valuable ball handling in the first half. They recovered some ground in the second half, but now they will likely have to face SA IF they get through their group stage.
Given what they did to England, and the fact that Wales will face the Burger, I am not looking forard to that encounter.
Ireland 14-Georgia 10 :confused:
It's all so clear to me now - in the true spirit of kinship the Irish and Welsh have decided to play so badly in order to make their English brothers feel a little better :D
Seriously though - the home nations are not exactly setting the rugby world alight are they?
Does anyone know what was printed in L'Equipe about Ronan O'Gara?
It's all so clear to me now - in the true spirit of kinship the Irish and Welsh have decided to play so badly in order to make their English brothers feel a little better
Looks like us Scots are gonna make even those efforts look good:(
7-0 already........and if that first kick by Pattersons anything to go by we`re gonna get a hiding
pedantic
23-09-2007, 20:54
Looks like us Scots are gonna make even those efforts look good:(
7-0 already........and if that first kick by Pattersons anything to go by we`re gonna get a hiding
At least you posted, the other jocks are decidedly quiet tonight. :D
At least you posted, the other jocks are decidedly quiet tonight.
It`s 10pm and i still dont know the final score...........i turned over and watched the condemned instead.
........:shocked:
It`s actually not as bad as i thought it was gonna be...lol
England 36 - 20 Tonga, in the end, I thoroughly enjoyed the game though.
England will have to be better than tonight to have a chance against the Australians.
Shadow Demon UK
29-09-2007, 15:04
England 36 - 20 Tonga, in the end, I thoroughly enjoyed the game though.
England will have to be better than tonight to have a chance against the Australians.
Best game they have had so far in the tournament, but the defense was still poor i felt and the Aussies will find it easy if we don't improve.
Yeah England's best game so far but that's not saying all that much. Will need to do much better to live with Australia next week though.
As for Wales v. Fiji - well what can you say about Fiji? They only know one way to play the game and came out on top. A great win for them and probably Gareth Jenkins' last as Wales coach given such an early exit despite partial home advantage.
Yeah England's best game so far but that's not saying all that much. Will need to do much better to live with Australia next week though.
As for Wales v. Fiji - well what can you say about Fiji? They only know one way to play the game and came out on top. A great win for them and probably Gareth Jenkins' last as Wales coach given such an early exit despite partial home advantage.
Yes, he said "Judge me on the world cup".
Well Gareth, you have been found wanting, its back to club rugby for you boyo.
Fiji were superb and we made a game of it but we had a bad start again. Jenkins now says he won't resign...........I don't think he will have a choice. Fiji are not mugs most of them now play abroad in NZ France, England or Wales.They are big fit athletic boys their forwards can run like backs and their backs can act like forwards. Surprised.........not me, who replaces Jenkins? don't know none of the regional coaches stand out and I include Lyn Jones (Ospreys) in that. Foreign coach don't think the WRU will pay out large sums of money for someone to go back home after 3 years. Mike Ruddock.....no WRU would be seen to be making a U turn of massive proportions. I still say he's the best coach we've had in recent years and it was player power that undone him. If there is to be a new coach and you can guarantee the suits are already looking at someone he needs to be in before the start of the 6 nations as I don't think there are any matches in November this year because of the world cup.
Isn't one of the problems Wales had that they didn't sufficiently adapt their game to counter the strengths of the Fijians in a game they had to win?
Isn't one of the problems Wales had that they didn't sufficiently adapt their game to counter the strengths of the Fijians in a game they had to win?
Yup, which is what bayonet meant when he said "Fiji were superb and we made a game of it but we had a bad start again".
Sorry, my point is that Wales' start wouldn't have been so bad if they'd planned their game properly before the match. Trying to adapt half way through a game is always fraught with danger.
Our kicking out of hand was and has been for a while abysmal, kick to touch and attack the line out miss touch and these sides will bury you. They are 7s specialists who can counter attack from anywhere. Take the scrum it was a shambles as far as Fiji were concerned did we learn....No. Jenkins said, "Judge me on the world cup." so he should resign but if you were getting his pay packet would you resign?
Why change kickers? either stick with one or the other Dwayne Peel has a half decent game and gets taken off. Mike Phillips, who should have started, comes on and looks the part but like the Jones/Hook debate Jenkins seems unable to admit he was wrong? Regarding changing game plan surely there is enough experience in that team to say "It's not working lads this is what we're going to do." Basically that's down to senior players and the captain
Our kicking out of hand was and has been for a while abysmal, kick to touch and attack the line out miss touch and these sides will bury you. They are 7s specialists who can counter attack from anywhere. Take the scrum it was a shambles as far as Fiji were concerned did we learn....No. Jenkins said, "Judge me on the world cup." so he should resign but if you were getting his pay packet would you resign?
Why change kickers? either stick with one or the other Dwayne Peel has a half decent game and gets taken off. Mike Phillips, who should have started, comes on and looks the part but like the Jones/Hook debate Jenkins seems unable to admit he was wrong? Regarding changing game plan surely there is enough experience in that team to say "It's not working lads this is what we're going to do." Basically that's down to senior players and the captain
Jenkins sacked (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/7020577.stm)
Just got home after shopping with the present Mrs bayonet, a form of torture almost as bad as watching that game yesterday. Never happy when this happens but I'm surprised at how swift the WRU have acted this time.
So who's next lads Eddie Jones ex Aussie coach or Nick Mallett, he's gone downhill since tha Bombalurina single.
Yeh, pushed. A brave decision indeed, but with 4 years to the next world cup, and only the top 16 guaranteed to seed, a very brave decision indeed.
Ireland bow out too - what an anticlimax for that squad. :confused:
Scotland v. Aregentina for a place in the last 4!! Who'd have thought ????..
Don't think you can blame O'Sullivan for their failure though - the players just didn't perform.
Ireland players have to hold their hands up having just watched the game they didn't perform at all. Argentine fo the final my dark horses have come through the defeat to Wales was a smoke screen they deserved to win that game really.
Shadow Demon UK
01-10-2007, 11:11
Scotland v. Aregentina for a place in the last 4!! Who'd have thought ????..
Not much of a suprise, Argentina are ranked 4th in the world which is two places above Ireland.
Maybe Scotland qualifying instead of the Italians was a bit of a suprise.
Yes Ireland was a surprise but my tip Argentina could go all the way who will they get when they beat our friends North of the border.
New Zealand Australia or South Africa?
Shadow Demon UK
01-10-2007, 12:27
They will play the winner of South Africa v Fiji
That could be a hell of a game 2 good packs having a go at each other could be better than the final. Very interesting Scrum V program in Wales last night Jonathan Davies Garin Jenkins Ieuan Evans and Stuart Davies on the panel.
Opinion seems to be it all stems from the WRU, Jonathan Davies said Neil Jenkins is having to coach players on how to kick when they come in to the squad. Surely that's the regions fault and it showed on Saturday
See Martyn Williams has decided to retire today
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/7021519.stm
Not much of a suprise, Argentina are ranked 4th in the world which is two places above Ireland.
Maybe Scotland qualifying instead of the Italians was a bit of a suprise.
Disagree, there's a massive difference between world ranking and actual performance in a tournament. You only have to look at NZ's record to see that.
---------- Post added at 12:57 ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 ----------
I've never liked the deal done to split the World Cup games with venues in Scotland and Wales and I'm sure there are a great many Frenchmen who are wishing they were playing NZ in Paris as opposed to Cardiff.
So it's Farrell to start against Australia then :confused: :confused: Does Brian Ashton have Antipodean ancestry I wonder? Despite what Ashton says about Farrell being worth his place, I really can't see how his form to date justifies a place on the bench let alone a start in a World Cup quarter final. I think the Aussies are going to have him for breakfast.
Shadow Demon UK
04-10-2007, 14:19
So it's Farrell to start against Australia then :confused: :confused: Does Brian Ashton have Antipodean ancestry I wonder? Despite what Ashton says about Farrell being worth his place, I really can't see how his form to date justifies a place on the bench let alone a start in a World Cup quarter final. I think the Aussies are going to have him for breakfast.
Not any more it's not http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7027824.stm
Which is a shame imo.
SMHarman
04-10-2007, 15:02
9am on a Saturday morning - it's just not right.
Shadow Demon UK
04-10-2007, 15:06
I take your talking about the England game, it's at 2pm on Saturday not 9am :confused:
Not any more it's not http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7027824.stm
Which is a shame imo.
Yes heard the good news this morning - given the few games he's played in the code Farrell just isn't yet equipped for international level. There's no doubting his talent in Rugby League but I honestly think his move to Union at his age was very ill timed.
Shadow Demon UK
04-10-2007, 15:26
Yes heard the good news this morning - given the few games he's played in the code Farrell just isn't yet equipped for international level. There's no doubting his talent in Rugby League but I honestly think his move to Union at his age was very ill timed.
He had a lot of injuries when he first switched codes, i think the timing was right for him if he had stayed fit and got a season or two of club games before the world cup. It's a shame because he has/did have the ability to be one of the best players in the team. It seems that at his age now his international career will soon be over.
He had a lot of injuries when he first switched codes, i think the timing was right for him if he had stayed fit and got a season or two of club games before the world cup. It's a shame because he has/did have the ability to be one of the best players in the team. It seems that at his age now his international career will soon be over.
That's really what I meant by 'ill timed' - the whole thing turned into a nightmare for everyone concerned but through no fault of Farrell. It was also rather late in any rugby players career to change codes.
SMHarman
04-10-2007, 16:40
I take your talking about the England game, it's at 2pm on Saturday not 9am :confused:Depends if you are watching it in Surrrey or New York though doesn't it. The French would consider the game to be on at 3pm and the Australians probably feel the game is on at 11pm at night. I imagine this is why this game is on in the earlier slot. The 8pm slot would have meant the Australians would be up at 5am to watch the game! Though of course the QF schedule was set at the outset, so perhaps this is more luck than judgement.
Drinking beer and watching rugby at 9am on a Saturday. I don't think this will be a very productive weekend.
I see the Aussies are up to their childish tricks again complaining to the referee before the match and telling us all how much they hate the English.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/09/26/sraust126.xml
Can you imagine a British official doing likewise? I can't think of anything more childish really tbh - a sad national trait which is totally unecessary and does them no favours IMO. It's all very well wanting to win but when senior officials start acting like ill mannered children in an effort to upset the opposition I think things have gone a bit too far. Eddie Jones tried a similar thing in 2003 causing Clive Woodward to retort 'Eddie Jones did my team talke for me'. Let's hope the same thing happens this time. All I want to see is a good fair match in which the best team wins. If that's England I'll be delighted but if it's Australia so be it. It's a pity more of them don't share the same philosophy - they really don't need to act like immature idiots do they?
pedantic
06-10-2007, 15:44
Australia 10 England 12 :cleader: :cleader: :cleader:
Should keep Russ quiet, for at least a little while longer. :D
Definately not - I'm hoping you'll do exactly what happened last time - go from heros to zeros within 18 months :D
Newflash from the England changing room:
"John O'Neill did our team talk for us" :D:D:D:D
Au revoir Australia :waving: :waving: :waving:
"Definately not - I'm hoping you'll do exactly what happened last time - go from heros to zeros within 18 months"
Russ are you suggesting that England might emulate Wales then?? Even if they do it's better to have been World Cup heroes once than never at all eh ? ;)
Whatever else happens, England have at least put in a great performance and have certainly exceeded my early expectations.
Downloads
06-10-2007, 16:15
Definately not - I'm hoping you'll do exactly what happened last time - go from heros to zeros within 18 months :D
Who cares, 4 years of nothing and when it matters there we are in the semis, going on form thats like a mammoth success and we beat the Aussies to boot. Bloody fantastic.
Russ are you suggesting that England might emulate Wales then?? Better to be heroes once than never eh ? ;)
Too young for the 70s then eh? At least our downfall took years - you lot went from world champions to spectacularly surrendering the Grand Slam to...er.....Wales in less than 18 months :D
Too young for the 70s then eh? At least our downfall took years - you lot went from world champions to spectacularly surrendering the Grand Slam to...er.....Wales in less than 18 months :D
Not too young at all Russ older than you actually. Tell me did Wales ever win the World Cup??? :) The records show England winners once, runners up once, semi finalists twice. Remind me of Wales' World Cup record again...... lol
I know it's hard for you to accept Russ but we're in the semi's and you're not - learn to live with it, you'll be a lot less envious. :)
Not too young at all Russ older than you I'd wager - Tell me did Wales ever win the World Cup??? :) The records show England winners once, runners up once, semi finalists twice. Remind me of Wale's record again...... lol
Yes, in a tournament which has only been played 5 times? That's really some acheivement........
I know it's hard for you to accept Russ but we're in the semi's and you're not - learn to live with it LOL
Hard to accept when it's on every newspaper and news programme??
Yes, in a tournament which has only been played 5 times? That's really some acheivement........
Hard to accept when it's on every newspaper and news programme??
Don't expect you'd be playing that tune now if Wales were in the semis would you?? :) Anyway I'm looking forward to a major and unexpected celebration tonight.... Have a good evening Russ. ;)
Well you just know I'd never let you hear the end of it! But would the press pick up on it so much? Doubt that....
TheDaddy
06-10-2007, 20:19
Well you just know I'd never let you hear the end of it! But would the press pick up on it so much? Doubt that....
That's weak even for you, it was hardly saturation coverage after all, what really was your problem with our glorious victory, jealousy or just the typical small minded nonsense we have come to expect froom people like yourself over the years :rolleyes:
Must say the England match today was one of the most entertaining i have watched for a long time.
Very well played by England- the scoreline a true reflection of the match though, just a shame they couldn't break the Australian backs to get a try in.
That's weak even for you, it was hardly saturation coverage after all, what really was your problem with our glorious victory, jealousy or just the typical small minded nonsense we have come to expect froom people like yourself over the years :rolleyes:
:clap: :clap: :clap:
Yes it'd be rather odd if there was no media coverage when England who'd been pretty much written off by virtually everyone beforehand managed to beat Australia and outplayed them in the process. I guess some people are just upset because all the gloating they've prepared over the last 4 years is going to have to wait for next time now. Sad eh?
In all honesty, given their erratic form, most England followers (myself included) would have bitten the hand off anyone who'd offered them a semi-final spot and a win against Australia before this tournament. France next week? Well it depends on which French team turn up and another major improvement from England I guess. It's a big ask in Paris but whatever else happens the lads have risen to the challenge when it has mattered and done us and themselves proud....
... and that leads us nicely on to New Zealand :confused:
What is it with that team? They have been the best team in the world for ages, they consistently play the sort of rugby most teams can only dream of and deserved the title IMO yet the red hot favourites have blown it again :confused:
For reasons best known to themselves they let the French off the hook and must be absolutely gutted!!! Had they kept up their tactics of the first 30 mins or so they'd have blown France away so why didn't they? 2 points down in the last 10 minutes, they were camped out on the French line trying for a try when 3 points from an easy drop would have been enough. They eventually went for it with seconds to go when they'd squandered far better positions for the points. Perhaps in that respect their overwhelming belief in their ability to score tries was the root of their downfall.
In the words of Winston Churchill: NZ are a "riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma".
As for SA and Scotland - well if yesterday's results are anything to go by Fiji will be playing Scotland in the other sem final. Who'd have thought eh??
Anyway at least there will be one N.Hemisphere team in the final although my money's on SA for the cup.
That's weak even for you, it was hardly saturation coverage after all, what really was your problem with our glorious victory, jealousy or just the typical small minded nonsense we have come to expect froom people like yourself over the years :rolleyes:
oooOOooooo!! Hark at her :D
And erm.....'glorious' victory? Yes, all those tries were glorious...
oooOOooooo!! Hark at her :D
And erm.....'glorious' victory? Yes, all those tries were glorious...
Presumably you much preferred Wales' glorious defeat to Australia and Fiji and being knocked out in the group stages :D
If it's not harking back to the 70's or glorying in a protracted demise over decades it's counting up tries when it suits lol Any port in a storm eh? :)
Presumably you much preferred Wales' glorious defeat to Australia and Fiji and being knocked out in the group stages :D
If it's not harking back to the 70's or glorying in a protracted demise over decades it's counting up tries when it suits lol Any port in a storm eh? :)
The difference being is we're not delusional about our chances. I only mentioned the 70s because it indicated how quickly England crashed. AS for counting tries when it suits, not at all! I'm just making sure no-one loses sight of what actually happened - a nervous performance. Yes a win is a win and one which certainly won't be forgotten but just like in the last world cup, England didn't play like winners. Not that that matters to you if you retain the cup but it's significant for the rest of us (ie the world) to remind you that playing like champions would have made the game a little bit sweeter ;)
TheDaddy
07-10-2007, 12:15
The difference being is we're not delusional about our chances.
Err neither are we and neither has the press been, looks like you'll need another excuse for your irrational loathing this time
Not that that matters to you if you retain the cup but it's significant for the rest of us (ie the world) to remind you that playing like champions would have made the game a little bit sweeter ;)
Just as well none of us could be bothered to remind you how far Welsh rugby has sunk really and I am sure it isn't really significant to the rest of the world, just Wales and Scotland, the rest aren't that bitter
Err neither are we and neither has the press been, looks like you'll need another excuse for your irrational loathing this time
I think you'll find the press build you up in each sporting tournament you enter. Being English you don't see it as it's normal to you. And 'irrational loathing'? I don't think so. Why would I irrationally loath half of myself?
Just as well none of us could be bothered to remind you how far Welsh rugby has sunk really and I am sure it isn't really significant to the rest of the world, just Wales and Scotland, the rest aren't that bitter
Plus the fact none of them have to share the media with you ;)
TheDaddy
07-10-2007, 12:40
I think you'll find the press build you up in each sporting tournament you enter.
Not this one they didn't
And 'irrational loathing'? I don't think so. Why would I irrationally loath half of myself?
Whatever, of course some would say it's handy to wheel that out when England are doing well at something, a sort of defence mechanism
Plus the fact none of them have to share the media with you ;)
Russ their has hardly been any coverage of this event at all, good job after seeing your country's lamentable efforts
Not this one they didn't
We must have been reading different papers then.
Whatever, of course some would say it's handy to wheel that out when England are doing well at something, a sort of defence mechanism
Defence mechansim? I'm half English, can't escape that fact.
Russ their has hardly been any coverage of this event at all, good job after seeing your country's lamentable efforts
As I said, must be different papers.
TheDaddy
07-10-2007, 13:19
We must have been reading different papers then.
I read most of them at work, I haven't seen one yet that's shown any real interest in this compitition, might be different in Wales seeing as they are co hosting it
Defence mechansim? I'm half English, can't escape that fact
As I said Russ, some would say, I am sure you are just as proud of your English heritage as your Welsh
I think you'll find the press build you up in each sporting tournament you enter. Being English you don't see it as it's normal to you. And 'irrational loathing'? I don't think so. Why would I irrationally loath half of myself?
Plus the fact none of them have to share the media with you ;)
Sorry Russ but I don't know anyone who seeks out or enjoys the sort of media hype (unduly positive or excessively negative) which happens when England play. These forums are full of stories about media hype - are the English to blame for that. How much hype has there been in Wales about the so called new Welsh generation over the last few years? Don't like the national media's coverage of England - well who's problem is that? From where I've been sitting for the last few weeks the media have done nothing but slag off sad, pathetic old England but of course that sort of thing doesn't register with you does it. You only hear what you want to hear.
Sorry Russ but not much of what you say about England and the English in this context is rational but that doesn't stop you does it. The truth is that had Wales gone on to win the cup having scored no tries at all you wouldn't have complained so why do you expect us to? England did what they had to do to beat a team with a better back division - they learned their lesson from 1991 when sadly they reacted to similar pathetic baiting by Campese and the like and it cost them the cup. It won't happen again because they know it's just so much hot air from sad mean spirited people who rely on that sort of thing to disguise their own shortcomings.
Latest: Argentina 13 Scotland 3
Tight game though.
---------- Post added at 21:54 ---------- Previous post was at 20:36 ----------
Argentina go through just........19 - 13 :disturbd:
No real flair really from either side, so maybe on play the Argies just deserved to edge the win, although they will need to improve by a vast amount to overcome South Africa in the semis..
Sorry Russ but I don't know anyone who seeks out or enjoys the sort of media hype (unduly positive or excessively negative) which happens when England play. These forums are full of stories about media hype - are the English to blame for that. How much hype has there been in Wales about the so called new Welsh generation over the last few years?
If the English hype was limited to Enlgish-only publications then I wouldn't have anything to say.
Sorry Russ but not much of what you say about England and the English in this context is rational but that doesn't stop you does it. The truth is that had Wales gone on to win the cup having scored no tries at all you wouldn't have complained so why do you expect us to? England did what they had to do to beat a team with a better back division - they learned their lesson from 1991 when sadly they reacted to similar pathetic baiting by Campese and the like and it cost them the cup. It won't happen again because they know it's just so much hot air from sad mean spirited people who rely on that sort of thing to disguise their own shortcomings.
If you read my post I did say that a win is a win - my reason for posting was to make sure no-one read anything more in to the victory than it was - a scraped win ;)
---------- Post added at 12:45 ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 ----------
I am sure you are just as proud of your English heritage as your Welsh
Put it this way - I feel about as English as you feel Welsh ;)
SMHarman
08-10-2007, 13:55
If the English hype was limited to Enlgish-only publications then I wouldn't have anything to say. The Setanta commentator was in love with Johnny if that helps your case?
If the English hype was limited to Enlgish-only publications then I wouldn't have anything to say.
If you read my post I did say that a win is a win - my reason for posting was to make sure no-one read anything more in to the victory than it was - a scraped win ;)
---------- Post added at 12:45 ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 ----------
Put it this way - I feel about as English as you feel Welsh ;)
Why should any of this bother you so much Russ? Did anyone claim it was a fine example of flowing rugby? You'll find it hard to find an Englishman or indeed a commentator who's overestimated England's performances over the last few years. If you're so worried about the biased media why do you seem to spend so much time reading it? Why not devote your energies to reading the Welsh media you appear to love and concentrate on Welsh Rugby instead of taking every opportunity to belittle the English game? You claim the media were hyping England's chances before the tournament as usual - let's have all the examples you can no doubt quote then. Where are all the pre-tournament headlines claiming England would win?
You imply your criticism is largely due to England's lack of tries - how many did we score against Wales earlier this year? Did that affect your contribution to the thread?
Quote If you hadn't mentioned it, I would have.
Utter utter utter shambles
Losing to a team like England is bad enough, but that sort of score truly shows the WRU couldn't organise the proverbial 'drink up' in a brewery. Sack the lot.
Not exactly an example of fair minded critique. The truth is that you will never give credit even when it's due.
If you feel so Welsh why keep reminding us ad nauseam that you are half English? Does it make you feel better about, excuse or validate your irrational vitriol? Do you feel having parents of a certain nationality is all that determines your nationality? I take it that will apply to any players the Welsh team may field who don't have Welsh parents - they're not truly Welsh either but that won't matter because they choose to wear a red shirt for a few years before they head back home. :rolleyes:
Why should any of this bother you so much Russ? Did anyone claim it was a fine example of flowing rugby? You'll find it hard to find an Englishman or indeed a commentator who's overestimated England's performances over the last few years. If you're so worried about the biased media why do you seem to spend so much time reading it? Why not devote your energies to reading the Welsh media you appear to love and concentrate on Welsh Rugby instead of taking every opportunity to belittle the English game? You claim the media were hyping England's chances before the tournament as usual - let's have all the examples you can no doubt quote then. Where are all the pre-tournament headlines claiming England would win?
I didn't say they were claiming England would win. They were bigging you up more than the other home nations.
You imply your criticism is largely due to England's lack of tries - how many did we score against Wales earlier this year? Did that affect your contribution to the thread?
You scored a lot more - but that wasn't in the World Cup tournament and I don't remember it being referred to as a 'famous victory'.
Not exactly an example of fair minded critique. The truth is that you will never give credit even when it's due.
Did you miss the twice I've said a win is a win? Yes you guys beat one of the world's best teams, that can never be taken away from you.
Happy now?
If you feel so Welsh why keep reminding us ad nauseam that you are half English?
Because when I get accused of having 'irrational loathing', I mention it to show I could not possibly have a loathing for my father's nationality. If you like you can compare my feeling on the England team to how most of you feel when you play Argentina or Germany in football. Nothing vicious just a good healthy rivalry.
Tell you what - bookmark this page if you like, but if England win the WC convincingly (I mean by more than just a few points, and by actually playing better than the opposition) I will be the first in here offering my congratulations.
Being Scottish by birth, I have no axe to grind - I don't care if England win by playing better than the opposition or by just a few points (although I would prefer it); I will be pleased that a British team won.
SMHarman
09-10-2007, 19:36
Being Scottish by birth, I have no axe to grind - I don't care if England win by playing better than the opposition or by just a few points (although I would prefer it); I will be pleased that a British team won.
Scotland Argentina was a gripping game, especially in those final few minutes, it almost looked like the underdogs England, France and Scotland were going to get through.
Then Parks cross kick ended that dream.
Yes, we're famous for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...... :D
I didn't say they were claiming England would win. They were bigging you up more than the other home nations.
You scored a lot more - but that wasn't in the World Cup tournament and I don't remember it being referred to as a 'famous victory'.
Did you miss the twice I've said a win is a win? Yes you guys beat one of the world's best teams, that can never be taken away from you.
Happy now?
Because when I get accused of having 'irrational loathing', I mention it to show I could not possibly have a loathing for my father's nationality. If you like you can compare my feeling on the England team to how most of you feel when you play Argentina or Germany in football. Nothing vicious just a good healthy rivalry.
Tell you what - bookmark this page if you like, but if England win the WC convincingly (I mean by more than just a few points, and by actually playing better than the opposition) I will be the first in here offering my congratulations.
Russ - you can try to worm out of what you've written in the past now but in reality it's all so much hot air with you isn't it. If Wales won anything of any significance by hook, crook, disputed call or whatever you certainly wouldn't be moaning about it would you? If Wales won the RUWC without scoring a try you wouldn't complain. The media were bigging England up were they? Show us all the pretournament headlines doing that then Russ.
Even now you can't accept England played better than Australia - they didn't win by luck or by chance but by design. They destroyed Australia's forward effort and in so doing outplayed one of the favourites to win. No they didn't score tries but since when was that the only measure of beating another team? When Wales have beaten England in the past by a penalty or drop goal late in the game did that fact negate their win in your mind? How many teams past and present have deserved to win matches by a mile but not necessarily scored many more points than their opposition? When England destroyed Wales earlier this year did you give them any credit for all their tries?
Nobody here is frightened of logical, reasoned debate about any of this but so much of what you write appears to boil down to petty almost childish envy.
Despite England being classed as no hopers before the tournament and beating Australia fairly and squarely in a game totally controlled by England's forwards all you can muster is 'a win is a win' - Thank you so much for that - that's very magnanimous of you. :rolleyes:
I don't think England can win the Cup - their backs have not performed well for a long time. It may not be pretty but for them to have progressed this far therefore is a huge achievement. Ditto Scotland - not necessarily pretty rugby but they've probably exceeded many people's expectations and are coming back after a long time in the rugby doldrums so very well done to them!
Russ - you can try to worm out of what you've written in the past now but in reality it's all so much hot air with you isn't it. If Wales won anything of any significance by hook, crook, disputed call or whatever you certainly wouldn't be moaning about it would you?
I haven't said you shouldn't be celebrating it.
If Wales won the RUWC without scoring a try you wouldn't complain.
No and you shouldn't either if England win
The media were bigging England up were they? Show us all the pretournament headlines doing that then Russ.
The media always placed England first when it comes to the rugby headlines. And when you say that's because more of the viewers/readers/listeners are English, does that mean us Welsh can therefore have a reduction in the licence fee/cost of papers?
Even now you can't accept England played better than Australia - they didn't win by luck or by chance but by design. They destroyed Australia's forward effort and in so doing outplayed one of the favourites to win. No they didn't score tries but since when was that the only measure of beating another team?
On Radio 2 this morning there were listeners bipping on about how England "totally dismantled" Australia. As you know, that was not the case. It was a historic victory alright, but not the whitewash so many people are trying to make out.
When Wales have beaten England in the past by a penalty or drop goal late in the game did that fact negate their win in your mind?
Yes - I'd rather Wales outclass and outplay their opponents when winning.
How many teams past and present have deserved to win matches by a mile but not necessarily scored many more points than their opposition? When England destroyed Wales earlier this year did you give them any credit for all their tries?
Of course not, that particular game was more a measure of how badly we'd sunk as opposed to any success on England's part.
Nobody here is frightened of logical, reasoned debate about any of this but so much of what you write appears to boil down to petty almost childish envy.
Really?
Why didn't Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea fans come on here and congratulate Man United on winning the premiership last season? Was that petty envy? Or just sporting rivalry? Maybe you could consider that's what I'm displaying instead of taking silly pops at me.
Despite England being classed as no hopers before the tournament and beating Australia fairly and squarely in a game totally controlled by England's forwards all you can muster is 'a win is a win' - Thank you so much for that - that's very magnanimous of you. :rolleyes:
What do you want, blood?
Still no comment Russ???
Odd for you lol
You always seem to have lots to say when we lose or don't win well enough. Was the score good enough? Did we score enough tries for you? Probably not but then again England are in the final again and Wales aren't. Had Wales won that game in the very same manner you'd have wasted no time telling us all about how great it was. Sleep well matey :D
Still waiting for all those pretournament bigging up England headlines you mentioned BTW - finding it hard to find them ??? :rolleyes:
Your main gripe now seems to be with the English biased media and not to do with tries at all. We don't choose the media any more than you choose your Rugby Team sadly.
Sleep well Russ knowing that whatever else happens the 'zeroes' are heroes again - unlike Wales they've exceeded everyone's expectations.
Is likening yourself to begrudging football fans a defence or excuse now just like being half English?
Since you're half English we're all looking forward to all your 'objective' comments and compliments on tonights match btw. :rolleyes:
Do I want blood? No. Not from you Russ because even if you gave it to England it would be insincere! Would rather have nothing at all from the likes of you. Keep your blood and keep your spite - it obviously takes your mind off failure.
Oh do stop spouting nonsense, I've more than answered your silly arguments. And you were playing France so obviously I wanted England to win. Looking worryingly like a one-man team but still, world cup final eh?
pedantic
14-10-2007, 00:54
France 9 England 14
Another great win for the boys. And this time we scored a try, should keep some people happy this time. :D
Oh do stop spouting nonsense, I've more than answered your silly arguments. And you were playing France so obviously I wanted England to win. Looking worryingly like a one-man team but still, world cup final eh?
Silly arguments?? Which ones would they be Russ? Oh I know - they'd be the ones you can't answer lol The only one spouting nonsense has been you - still not come up with all those headlines eh??
The 'zeros' in the World Cup final again and half English Russ still can't even bring himself to say 'well done'. Now who looks silly?
Silly arguments?? Which ones would they be Russ? Oh I know - they'd be the ones you can't answer lol The only one spouting nonsense has been you - still not come up with all those headlines eh?? Did you read any of yesterday's papers?
The 'zeros' in the World Cup final again and half English Russ still can't even bring himself to say 'well done'. Now who looks silly? Well you to be honest. I'd have thought someone with such profound knowledge would have heard of sporting rivalry.
TheDaddy
14-10-2007, 11:26
Did you read any of yesterday's papers?
Well you to be honest. I'd have thought someone with such profound knowledge would have heard of sporting rivalry.
You really object to headlines about one of the home nations being in a semi final? If Wales were ever in one you'd see a similar amount of coverage
Sporting rivalry is one thing, Scotland and Wales attitude towards the English is just so pointless, perhaps if their fans spent a little more time getting behind their team rather than indulging in such unimpressive characteristics they might do better in tournaments themselves
Shadow Demon UK
14-10-2007, 11:42
France 9 England 14
Another great win for the boys. And this time we scored a try, should keep some people happy this time. :D
What a game! I still cannot believe we are in the final again, the work rate and passion shown in the last two games is something any Englishman can be proud of and hopefully we can have a repeat of it against South Africa/Argentina in the final. :tu:
You really object to headlines about one of the home nations being in a semi final? If Wales were ever in one you'd see a similar amount of coverage That's utter rubbish, you're completely delusional if you believe that. Want proof? Go and have a look at the back cover of today's People.
Sporting rivalry is one thing, Scotland and Wales attitude towards the English is just so pointless, perhaps if their fans spent a little more time getting behind their team rather than indulging in such unimpressive characteristics they might do better in tournaments themselves
That's such an old argument it belongs in the 1950s. There's nothing different between my attitude to England and say, Arsenal.
TheDaddy
14-10-2007, 12:10
That's utter rubbish, you're completely delusional if you believe that. Want proof? Go and have a look at the back cover of today's People.
I'd rather have a look at the back of last months People, where I guarantee you'd find little mention of the compitition full stop, let alone England, we get into the final of the World Cup and you object to a few headlines :rofl: pretty pathetic Russ
That's such an old argument it belongs in the 1950s. There's nothing different between my attitude to England and say, Arsenal.
It's as true then as it is today, where does it get you, an hours gloating every couple of years when we go out of the football at the quarter final stage of competitions you and the Jocks never qualify for anyway and what is your attitude towards Arsenal, one of hatred perhaps
What I object to is Wales and Scotland being treated in the UK media as the poor relations of the country. If you want to be that ignorant then fine, good luck to you but don't moan when we don't share your enthusiasm. And I don't have any person or team - I consider Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea to be United's sporting rivals. Reading anything more in to it just makes you out to be immature and petty.
What I object to is Wales and Scotland being treated in the UK media as the poor relations of the country.
But they are though ain't they when it comes to sport. :LOL:
But if it was Wales or Scotland in the final I'd be cheering them on as much as I would England, as they are part of the UK afterall.
Maybe the English ain't as bad as the Welsh or Scottish in attitude because of the underdog thing, we always want them to do well (unless they are against England of course).
TheDaddy
14-10-2007, 13:12
What I object to is Wales and Scotland being treated in the UK media as the poor relations of the country. If you want to be that ignorant then fine, good luck to you but don't moan when we don't share your enthusiasm.
I don't want your enthusiasm, just a reason why you feel the need to comment, full stop, when Wales fall flat on their faces, as they frequently do, no one here feels the need to comment, when Wales manage a win no one feels the need to say 'you scrapped a win blah blah', yet you can't seem to help yourself and when some one asks you about it you come out with some crap about media bias, completely disregarding the fact the competition has been largely ignored by the media
Bordering racism this thread me thinks. If a mod wasn't invovled in the debate it would have been closed!
I don't want your enthusiasm, just a reason why you feel the need to comment, full stop, when Wales fall flat on their faces, as they frequently do, no one here feels the need to comment, when Wales manage a win no one feels the need to say 'you scrapped a win blah blah', yet you can't seem to help yourself and when some one asks you about it you come out with some crap about media bias, completely disregarding the fact the competition has been largely ignored by the media
Same reason I react the same on the odd occasion when Arsenal win something.
---------- Post added at 15:16 ---------- Previous post was at 15:14 ----------
Bordering racism this thread me thinks. If a mod wasn't invovled in the debate it would have been closed! I've been out this afternoon but have IQs dropped sharply since I left? How can I be racist?
Shadow Demon UK
14-10-2007, 16:33
Bordering racism this thread me thinks. If a mod wasn't invovled in the debate it would have been closed!
:confused: How exactly?
No wait sorry, had a rethink (and a sleep after a heavy night), its patriotism :rolleyes: All this England vs the rest really gets on my nerves. Russ, get yourself a taffy paper if you don't like the English ones.
Back onto topic anyway as this has gone way off. Who would you rather see England face in the Final? I would prefer the Argies
The jingoism would be unbearable if it was Argentina. And I don't buy English papers - I get British ones ;)
And I don't buy English papers - I get British ones ;)
Why though, if you don't like what they report?
The jingoism would be unbearable if it was Argentina.
Hmm true. I just cant wait for what will (hopfully) be a great game
Why though, if you don't like what they report? Lack of alternative? Still if I was an England fan I'd be hoping Wilkinson stays fit.
Lack of alternative? Still if I was an England fan I'd be hoping Wilkinson stays fit.
I'm not sure but I seem to rememeber a couple of alternatives from my days living in Cardiff (the western something?). I agree that Wilkinson is pretty much the key man although I can't see England beating the likely opponents of South Africa anyway (mind you that's what I thought about Australia and France).
15 Minutes into the South Africa V Argentina match, and I have lost count as to how many times Will Greenwood has made reference to the England team, its incredible.
Update, so far he has been able to mention nearly half of the England team by name, what an incredible piece of biased commentary............we still have 50 minutes of this nonsense.
Yet according to some, this never actually happens.
15 Minutes into the South Africa V Argentina match, and I have lost count as to how many times Will Greenwood has made reference to the England team, its incredible.
Update, so far he has been able to mention nearly half of the England team by name, what an incredible piece of biased commentary............we still have 50 minutes of this nonsense.
What on earth do you expect though? I'm not watching the game but I assume he's mentioning the England players in relation to the final? I agree it can be annoying but the facts are that England are playing the winners of this game in the final, so if you're watching the game on a British tv channel with an English summariser it's pretty silly to expect anything else.
What on earth do you expect though? I'm not watching the game but I assume he's mentioning the England players in relation to the final? I agree it can be annoying but the facts are that England are playing the winners of this game in the final, so if you're watching the game on a British tv channel with an English summariser it's pretty silly to expect anything else.
I expect a balanced commentary, not one heavily waited and overley gushing about Englands performance over France.
I will be the first to admit that England have done extremely well given their history since the last world cup, but there were other teams in the UK playing, I don't remember seeing brief clips of each player before their matches, describing themselves and what postions they played.
Sorry, all due respect to England for where they are now, but Greenwoods commentary was too much all about England yesterday.
He even ressurected a few swipes at NZ, come on, the guy is a total moron, and I hope that is the last TV appearance he makes.
What on earth do you expect though? I'm not watching the game but I assume he's mentioning the England players in relation to the final? I agree it can be annoying but the facts are that England are playing the winners of this game in the final, so if you're watching the game on a British tv channel with an English summariser it's pretty silly to expect anything else.
I have to agree, I couldn't see too much wrong with it all, as you say, English commentators are doing whats expected. I liked the way they took the mick out of Lord Farquaad (Percy) quite a bit.
What on earth do you expect though? I'm not watching the game but I assume he's mentioning the England players in relation to the final? I agree it can be annoying but the facts are that England are playing the winners of this game in the final, so if you're watching the game on a British tv channel with an English summariser it's pretty silly to expect anything else.To be fair, I would be expecting the commentators to be commentating on the game at hand, not on another team.
It's so annoying to listen, whichever sport it is, to commentators prattle on about another game. What about the game at hand eh?
Surely they have a highlights programme that they could use to discuss all the games that have been played?
To be fair, I would be expecting the commentators to be commentating on the game at hand, not on another team.
It's so annoying to listen, whichever sport it is, to commentators prattle on about another game. What about the game at hand eh?
Surely they have a highlights programme that they could use to discuss all the games that have been played?
Here, here!!
To be fair, I would be expecting the commentators to be commentating on the game at hand, not on another team.
It's so annoying to listen, whichever sport it is, to commentators prattle on about another game. What about the game at hand eh?
Surely they have a highlights programme that they could use to discuss all the games that have been played?
But every other country does it - can you imagine the French commentators not mentioning their chances in the final if they'd won last night? Admittedly there is a difference with itv covering the UK and not just England but even so, if Wales or Scotland were the team in the final I'm sure the commentators would be talking about them.
Don't be so sure about that.
Don't be so sure about that.
Well I don't think we'll ever know the answer to that one will we. :LOL:
pedantic
14-10-2007, 22:09
I see the moaning buggers are out in force again, it's just like the football world cup all over again. :D
But every other country does it - can you imagine the French commentators not mentioning their chances in the final if they'd won last night? Admittedly there is a difference with itv covering the UK and not just England but even so, if Wales or Scotland were the team in the final I'm sure the commentators would be talking about them.
Yes, but its not been about the final, their first match had a descriptive clip of each England player....all the other UK teams and Ireland just got the usual positional graphic.
Greenwood took every opportunity to mention England where he could. OK, so its his first time, but I hope someone in ITV has picked this up and told him to cool off a bit....which he did appear to do in the second half.
He can do all the gushing he likes in the final, I don't care, nor will the rest of the UK.
But every other country does it - can you imagine the French commentators not mentioning their chances in the final if they'd won last night? Admittedly there is a difference with itv covering the UK and not just England but even so, if Wales or Scotland were the team in the final I'm sure the commentators would be talking about them.Doesn't mean that it's right though, does it?
I mean, I turn on to watch South Africa v Argentina and all I get is them talking about a different match???
Like I said, if they have a highlights match, that's where they should be discussing it. If I wanted a rerun, I would have taped the England match and watched that over and over again.
My opinion is not based on any argument between fans, it is based on the fact that I have decided to watch a specific match and I want the commentators to discuss that match, not a previous game.
Doesn't mean that it's right though, does it?
I mean, I turn on to watch South Africa v Argentina and all I get is them talking about a different match???
Like I said, if they have a highlights match, that's where they should be discussing it. If I wanted a rerun, I would have taped the England match and watched that over and over again.
My opinion is not based on any argument between fans, it is based on the fact that I have decided to watch a specific match and I want the commentators to discuss that match, not a previous game.
So you're watching the semi-final of the world cup in the UK, one of the home nations playing the winner, and you're moaning about them mentioning England?
Perhaps it's not just them mentioning England but the way they're being mentioned, forgetting their supposed impartiality?
So you're watching the semi-final of the world cup in the UK, one of the home nations playing the winner, and you're moaning about them mentioning England?I am actually English, so obviously this isn't an opposing fan issue, is it?
Yes, whoever wins in the match, they will be playing England in the next match. Not this one.
My point is that if I want to watch any match, whether it be Rugby, Football or Tiddlywinks, I want them commentating on that match, not doing a full match analysis of a previous match.
How many times did they mention England? Was is it once, twice? Did the mention of England end up in 30 minute discussion of the fitness of Johnny Wilkinson?
I do realise that I have more chance of seeing a squadron of pigs taking off from Manchester airport under their own power, than to see any commentator not ramble on about rubbish, but it is still a dream of mine.
I do realise that I have more chance of seeing a squadron of pigs taking off from Manchester airport under their own power,
We don't play Arsenal yet, but then you might ;)
TheDaddy
15-10-2007, 08:48
Same reason I react the same on the odd occasion when Arsenal win something.
So you saying it's some sort of rivalry thing, well I realise Wales would like/ strive to be as good but given your performances over the last 25 years it's like comparing Premier league with the conference and tbh it's a rivalry no one in England is interested in
---------- Post added at 08:46 ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 ----------
Yet according to some, this never actually happens.
Still waiting for you to provide evidence of it before the start of the tournament or at the group stages
---------- Post added at 08:48 ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 ----------
Perhaps it's not just them mentioning England but the way they're being mentioned, forgetting their supposed impartiality?
Will Greenwood is a current World Champion who played in the same team as a lot of those players, he wasn't hired for his impartiality, he was hired to give us an insight into what they are thinking and what is going on in the dressing room
It's tough to provide tv and radio clips from the past on here.
TheDaddy
15-10-2007, 09:10
It's tough to provide tv and radio clips from the past on here.
Newspapers will do and you don't have to go that far back, just to the start of the tournament and the group stages
Perhaps it's not just them mentioning England but the way they're being mentioned, forgetting their supposed impartiality?
What supposed inpartiality? Why should they be impartial? Other country's commentators aren't.
Newspapers will do and you don't have to go that far back, just to the start of the tournament and the group stages
Right, so scanned newspaper cuttings from more than a week ago will do? Seeing as websites rarely print actual layouts of pages which show England getting more columns than the rest of us (ie like you'd see for yourself if you'd get a copy of yesterday's People for example).
---------- Post added at 13:10 ---------- Previous post was at 13:07 ----------
What supposed inpartiality? Why should they be impartial? Other country's commentators aren't.
I don't care about how other countries do it. Commentators are there to provide impartial commentary otherwise what's the point?
Saaf_laandon_mo
15-10-2007, 13:17
IS there not a Welsh version of the People? I mean when I go to Scotland and read the papers there, all the sport relates to scottish teams, for example the football talks about the Scottish leagues and very little premiership stuff is reported.
I don't really see what the big deal is to be honest, so Greenwood went on about England during yesterdays game, but I bet a large proportion of UK viewrers yesterday were English, or would have had an interest in England, over SA or Argentina. Whats the point of greenwood just going on about Welsh or Scottish players when the're no longer in the competition?
England reaching the final this year is a big deal, no one thought they'd beat Austrailia or Frnce, given the pasting SA handed to them. In all honesty I think the coverage was justified to go on about the England players, its all part of the build up.
People have been going on about England winning the world cup in 1966 up until now, so you cant blame a rugby commentator for going on about them reaching the final, just one day after the semis.
---------- Post added at 13:17 ---------- Previous post was at 13:15 ----------
.
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I don't care about how other countries do it. Commentators are there to provide impartial commentary otherwise what's the point?
But I think you should accept that they dont, not just in England, but in England, Wales, Scotland , Ireland and most likely all over the world. So just live with it, its not that big a deal.
TheDaddy
15-10-2007, 13:19
Right, so scanned newspaper cuttings from more than a week ago will do? Seeing as websites rarely print actual layouts of pages which show England getting more columns than the rest of us (ie like you'd see for yourself if you'd get a copy of yesterday's People for example).
---------- Post added at 13:10 ---------- Previous post was at 13:07 ----------
I don't care about how other countries do it. Commentators are there to provide impartial commentary otherwise what's the point?
Russ this competition has been going on over a month and was largely ignored before it started and during the group stages, mainly because England stuttered and the other home nations went out on a whimper in most cases
The commentators have been pretty impartial, it's the pundits if anyone showing bias and they don't have a mandate to be impartial
Russ this competition has been going on over a month and was largely ignored before it started and during the group stages, mainly because England stuttered and the other home nations went out on a whimper in most cases
The commentators have been pretty impartial, it's the pundits if anyone showing bias and they don't have a mandate to be impartial
You'd have enough to say if the commentators or 'pundits' were blatantly anti English.
TheDaddy
15-10-2007, 13:34
You'd have enough to say if the commentators or 'pundits' were blatantly anti English.
What as anti English as you perhaps? I haven't seen them be anti anyone, so what a couple of pundits went a bit OTT after seeing their ex team mates and friends reach the final again, I don't think the worse of them for it, they are ex rugby players first and foremost, part time hobby tv pundits second
IS there not a Welsh version of the People? I mean when I go to Scotland and read the papers there, all the sport relates to scottish teams, for example the football talks about the Scottish leagues and very little premiership stuff is reported.
We get the same over here. For example the Daily Mirror today has an 8 page pullout on the Irish League and the headline on the back page is about Darren Gibson.
What as anti English as you perhaps?
But as you are fully aware I'm not anti English. My point was based on tin notion they should be more impartial.
Saaf_laandon_mo
15-10-2007, 14:44
We get the same over here. For example the Daily Mirror today has an 8 page pullout on the Irish League and the headline on the back page is about Darren Gibson.
Thats why I dont understand why he's whinging about the paper coverage. Ifs its a welsh paper I can understand his point, but if its a English newspaper he should just buy the welsh equivalent.
Thats why I dont understand why he's whinging about the paper coverage. Ifs its a welsh paper I can understand his point, but if its a English newspaper he should just buy the welsh equivalent.
Maybe it's because there isn't a Welsh equivalent?
Saaf_laandon_mo
15-10-2007, 15:17
Maybe it's because there isn't a Welsh equivalent?
Well then, as I said in my post, I can understand why you're moaning.
Russ, are all the papers in Wales the english versions? For example does the Sun on monday have an english premiership pull out or does it cover Welsh football?
If there are welsh versions of other papers then why carry on reading the People if you dont like their English bias?
Not sure about the other papers, I just grab whatever is there. But it's not just the papers. When all home nations are playing on the same day you can be sure the national news will give the England result precedence. And before someone wheels out the line that most of the viewers are English, does that mean we should get a licence fee reduction? (come back Defiant all is forgiven)
---------- Post added at 15:27 ---------- Previous post was at 15:24 ----------
Back to the rugby - if England manage to beat SA in the final, regardless of the score or how they play, I'll be impressed. Can't see it happening though.
Saaf_laandon_mo
15-10-2007, 15:29
I too think SA will be too strong for England. As much as I wanted argentina to win yesterday I am glad they didnt. could you imagine the buildup and the number of references to the Falklands war, oh and Deigo MAradonna, that would have been on the back pages?
SMHarman
15-10-2007, 16:14
oh and Deigo MAradonna, that would have been on the back pages?and if England won it would be down to Johnnys 'Foot of God'
I could see the back page of the sun now, a picture of his boot and a request to pray to the boot.
TheDaddy
15-10-2007, 16:29
But as you are fully aware I'm not anti English. My point was based on tin notion they should be more impartial.
I think they have been pretty impartial, anyway for whose benefit is this impartiality, the anti English, Welsh and Scots perhaps? Even if you are right, what do you expect anyone here to do about it, having a sly dig won't put right any perceived media wrongs will it, so why bother?
Saaf_laandon_mo
15-10-2007, 17:03
I think they have been pretty impartial, anyway for whose benefit is this impartiality, the anti English, Welsh and Scots perhaps? Even if you are right, what do you expect anyone here to do about it, having a sly dig won't put right any perceived media wrongs will it, so why bother?
Im sure if it was Wales in the final instead of England, ITV would have had Mr & Mrs Charlotte Church as their guest pundits gushing on about how good wales were tc etc , and I would now all the Welsh players names' by now. I bet no England fan would have been moaning about it this morning, like Mr Wales RussB has today.
I think they have been pretty impartial, anyway for whose benefit is this impartiality, the anti English, Welsh and Scots perhaps? Even if you are right, what do you expect anyone here to do about it, having a sly dig won't put right any perceived media wrongs will it, so why bother?
I apologise for having views which you disagree with and I also apologise for posting them on a discussion board.
---------- Post added at 17:09 ---------- Previous post was at 17:06 ----------
Im sure if it was Wales in the final instead of England, ITV would have had Mr & Mrs Charlotte Church as their guest pundits gushing on about how good wales were tc etc , and I would now all the Welsh players names' by now. I bet no England fan would have been moaning about it this morning, like Mr Wales RussB has today.
I'm pleased that you're impressed with my body after all the effort I've put in down the gym but I hardly think I'm worthy of that title yet :D
Saaf_laandon_mo
15-10-2007, 17:15
I'm pleased that you're impressed with my body after all the effort I've put in down the gym but I hardly think I'm worthy of that title yet :D
trust me, having not seen your body, as well as having no desire to see it, the award was for your mental, and not physical presence...... :D
that's actually a compliment too - 2 from you in ten minutes, sorry sir but I'm straight.
Saaf_laandon_mo
15-10-2007, 17:23
that's actually a compliment too - 2 from you in ten minutes, sorry sir but I'm straight.
think of it like a Darwin award..... ;)
think of it like a Darwin award..... ;)
No no, I'll take it as intended, one man's admiration for another :) anyway back to the rugby....
TheDaddy
15-10-2007, 18:06
Im sure if it was Wales in the final instead of England, ITV would have had Mr & Mrs Charlotte Church as their guest pundits gushing on about how good wales were tc etc , and I would now all the Welsh players names' by now. I bet no England fan would have been moaning about it this morning, like Mr Wales RussB has today.
I am sure if by some miracle they managed to reach a final, the English wouldn't hide their contempt behind cheap shots and cries of media bias on the bloody internet, bleating on to people that couldn't do anything about it or give a damn in equal measure
I am sure if by some miracle they managed to reach a final, the English wouldn't hide their contempt behind cheap shots and cries of media bias on the bloody internet, bleating on to people that couldn't do anything about it or give a damn in equal measure
I wouldn't call it a miracle, after all we soundly beat England (and everyone else) to take the Grand Slam in 2004. Funnily enough the back pages of the papers weren't full of columns about Wales as they are for England when they win the tournament. Still, that's not media bias eh?
Mind you, I'll be sure to run any other views by you in future, just to make sure they qualify for posting on an internet discussion forum.
TheDaddy
15-10-2007, 18:23
I wouldn't call it a miracle, after all we soundly beat England (and everyone else) to take the Grand Slam in 2004. Funnily enough the back pages of the papers weren't full of columns about Wales as they are for England when they win the tournament. Still, that's not media bias eh?
I would, wasn't that when we took 2 years of to go on tour with the World cup
Mind you, I'll be sure to run any other views by you in future, just to make sure they qualify for posting on an internet discussion forum
Probably a good idea considering the amount of crap you have posted in this thread, tell me all those not so sly digs, shouldn't they have been aimed at the media and not the team then?
SMHarman
15-10-2007, 18:30
No no, I'll take it as intended, one man's admiration for another :) anyway back to the rugby....Or back to the rugby commentary which by the sounds of things was much like your quote.
I would, wasn't that when we took 2 years of to go on tour with the World cup
No, it was when the England team (ie Jonny Wilkinson) was out with a long-term injury.
Probably a good idea considering the amount of crap you have posted in this thread, tell me all those not so sly digs, shouldn't they have been aimed at the media and not the team then?
They weren't aimed at the team - they were aimed at certain England fans who read far more in to the result than was there.
TheDaddy
15-10-2007, 18:48
They weren't aimed at the team - they were aimed at certain England fans who read far more in to the result than was there.
I must of missed those posts, don't think I have seen one that has gone OTT, mind you I missed the newspapers at the start of the competition when they were holding us up as potential champs as well
Funnily enough I never said they were. What I said was the media was bigging you guys up and we were treated like the second class relations, as is the norm for when the home nations play in any tournament.
Shadow Demon UK
15-10-2007, 18:53
Funnily enough I never said they were. What I said was the media was bigging you guys up and we were treated like the second class relations, as is the norm for when the home nations play in any tournament.
If i remember rightly it was actually the Irish that were being 'bigged up' at the begining of the tournament by the press. Even if England were being 'bigged up' as you say they were it was obviously the correct team to do it to as they are the only home nation that has actually played well.
If i remember rightly it was actually the Irish that were being 'bigged up' at the begining of the tournament by the press. Even if England were being 'bigged up' as you say they were it was obviously the correct team to do it to as they are the only home nation that has actually played well.
That's a fair point, I'll grant you that but England always have had, and always will get the bigger share of column inches regardless of who plays well.
TheDaddy
15-10-2007, 18:57
Funnily enough I never said they were. What I said was the media was bigging you guys up and we were treated like the second class relations, as is the norm for when the home nations play in any tournament.
They weren't though, next to no media interest in the competition, all the home nations were equally written of
They weren't though, next to no media interest in the competition, all the home nations were equally written off
All may have been written off, but England had the more publicity and headline space. It's always been that way. Being English you don't notice it as it's normal for you however next time all the home nations (or England and another home nation in seperate matches) are playing, see if you can spot who gets the more space in the papers and gets mentioned first on the news.
Shadow Demon UK
15-10-2007, 19:09
All may have been written off, but England had the more publicity and headline space. It's always been that way. Being English you don't notice it as it's normal for you however next time all the home nations (or England and another home nation in seperate matches) are playing, see if you can spot who gets the more space in the papers and gets mentioned first on the news.
But there will be more English people reading those English newspapers and watching the news, it's like saying Man Utd get more headlines than Derby County, it's because they have more fans. And i'm sure Derby fans wouldn't start asking about having a reduction in license fees because their match is shown towards the end of MOTD.
But there will be more English people reading those English newspapers and watching the news, it's like saying Man Utd get more headlines than Derby County, it's because they have more fans. And i'm sure Derby fans wouldn't start asking about having a reduction in license fees because their match is shown towards the end of MOTD.
But just as Derby fans would be disgruntled, can you not see how the rest of us are equally disgruntled? In any case I'm sure Derby and co will understand that 20-odd teams being crammed in to a few pages or an hour's broadcast will mean the bigger teams will obviously get priority. However when there are just 4 home teams and England still gets the bigger publicity....
TheDaddy
15-10-2007, 19:31
But just as Derby fans would be disgruntled, can you not see how the rest of us are equally disgruntled? In any case I'm sure Derby and co will understand that 20-odd teams being crammed in to a few pages or an hour's broadcast will mean the bigger teams will obviously get priority. However when there are just 4 home teams and England still gets the bigger publicity....
When was the last time MOTD showed 10 matches? If it goes on comparing size of team, in terms of size and success Wales would be worthy of little more than a byline compared to England
When was the last time MOTD showed 10 matches? If it goes on comparing size of team, in terms of size and success Wales would be worthy of little more than a byline compared to England
So I'm not to have digs at England but you can about Wales? Double standards boyo. But the media have made that feel normal to you.
Anyway it's not about success, it's about proportions. There are 4 home nations, that's a small enough number for all of them to get equal coverage.
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