View Full Version : Further info on my law question
My mate over msn today asked me a question which i did not know the answer
to.
Basically he has been caught stealing money from his employees.
He got arrested and told the police he did it.
The other day he got some summons to attend court. As far as i know there
was 3 summons in the same envelope. Now he is worried. I dont condemn what
he has done as he knows it was wrong. As its his first offence what do you
think will happen to him?
Any advice i can relay to him will be gratefull
Thanks
that really does depend on a lot of factors....
what has he been charged with? Are there mitigating circumstances? Is he going to plead guilty/ not guilty? Is he appearing at a magistrates or county court? What kind of legal representation does he have, PDS or private?
Magistrates court and pleading guilty. I dont think he has a lawyer. And he took about £700-£800
Well, the magistrates court can only give out a maximum of a £5000 fine, 200 hours community service (i believe they are now called community rehabilitation orders), or 6months inside.
The mitigating circumstances are probably the key in this case- a pds solicitor can probably think of a few based on the facts of the case.
Magistrates courts are very reluctant to give out custodial sentences (too much paperwork :p: ) but if your friend has some seriously good mitigating circumstances then he can request to go to county court infront of a jury and if there are factors that will appeal to "human kindness" ie, 12 public juror members rather than three magistrates then that is an option that he can consider.
If you want to PM me the full details of the case i can do a proper analysis (i've just finished a law degree ;) ) but i can appreicate that you and he may not wish to share these facts on a public forum :)
MB
Any chance we could talk over msn please
MovedGoalPosts
12-06-2005, 14:29
Theft from an employer is often taken quite serisously. It's an abuse of a position of trust.
Someone will only end up in crown court, if they were
1) pleading not guilty, and elected for trial by jury,
2) the magistrates were referring them to the higher court for sentencing because the punshment they wanted to issue exceeded the maximums they could dish out. (no trial by jury on this case, as guilt has already been determined).
That he has admitted guilt to the police, suggests the evidence is clear cut. Little point in winding everyone up in trying to backtrack at court. He's going to have to take it like a man.
These days penalties despite the nature of the offence seem to have little severity. IMO, For a first offence I'd be very surprised if he's given any form of custodial sentence.
His bigger concern will be a criminal record, of theft from an employer. Who then would want to give him a job :shrug:
Well yes he pleaded guilty and explained the reasons.
I will tell everyone. He stole the money because he was worried about court costs to get access to his daughter. He was worried if he did not have enough money he might not see her again.
homealone
12-06-2005, 14:49
Well yes he pleaded guilty and explained the reasons.
I will tell everyone. He stole the money because he was worried about court costs to get access to his daughter. He was worried if he did not have enough money he might not see her again.
that is such a shame and can be quoted as a mitigating circumstance, that, & readily pleading guilty should be in his favour.
It doesn't alter the facts of the crime, though and I think the minimum he can expect is having to pay costs & compensation.
As has been said, the long term implication of having a criminal record for such an offence, will be the worst punishment. :(
I think he is just worried about prison really
cookie_365
12-06-2005, 15:28
that is such a shame and can be quoted as a mitigating circumstance, that, & readily pleading guilty should be in his favour.
It doesn't alter the facts of the crime, though and I think the minimum he can expect is having to pay costs & compensation.
As has been said, the long term implication of having a criminal record for such an offence, will be the worst punishment. :(
I doubt that that'd impress the mags/DJ :erm:
Your friend needs a solicitor, not advice from us.
zoombini
12-06-2005, 15:58
Best advise would be to clear out his desk/locker as he is unlikely to be there much longer.
zing_deleted
12-06-2005, 16:14
Well, the magistrates court can only give out a maximum of a £5000 fine, 200 hours community service (i believe they are now called community rehabilitation orders), or 6months inside.
The mitigating circumstances are probably the key in this case- a pds solicitor can probably think of a few based on the facts of the case.
Magistrates courts are very reluctant to give out custodial sentences (too much paperwork :p: ) but if your friend has some seriously good mitigating circumstances then he can request to go to county court infront of a jury and if there are factors that will appeal to "human kindness" ie, 12 public juror members rather than three magistrates then that is an option that he can consider.
If you want to PM me the full details of the case i can do a proper analysis (i've just finished a law degree ;) ) but i can appreicate that you and he may not wish to share these facts on a public forum :)
MB
I thought county courts were for civil matters not criminal? thought the option would be crown court,but would the jury have anything to do with a guilty plea? :)
allieyoung666
12-06-2005, 16:17
I know when it happened at work , she got put in prisoion for 30days to think about what she had done, but I know she had done other stuff as well, has he?? And do you know why he took for example to feed a habit etc.... as the courts will probally give a lighter sentence, I am sorry to hear this. And I agree with the above, but why wasnt he been made to clear out his desk already if it was such a large amount.
It was mentioned earlier in the thread Allie that he took it to pay to for legal costs to get access to his daughter
Well I guess atleast that is better than him using it to feed a crack addiction.
Still, stealing is wrong at the end of the day whatever the reason.
jellybaby
12-06-2005, 18:11
Without going into details ;) ....I would guess in the region of...
12 months probabtion
200 hrs community service
EDIT
The courts REALLY frown upon this kind of crime, and I would seriously look at getting a lawyer to help.
allieyoung666
12-06-2005, 18:22
It was mentioned earlier in the thread Allie that he took it to pay to for legal costs to get access to his daughter
Whopps sorry I missed that bit, Poor bloke. Well they might be easy on him then:angel:
cookie_365
12-06-2005, 18:44
I thought county courts were for civil matters not criminal? thought the option would be crown court,but would the jury have anything to do with a guilty plea? :)
I think MB meant Crown Court - but although the Mags Ct can send the case up for sentencing to the CC juries don't decide on sentences in theft cases.
__________________
Whopps sorry I missed that bit, Poor bloke. Well they might be easy on him then:angel:
No. If his means are enough that he doesn't qualify for legal aid, there's no way the mags will have any sympathy for him if he steals so he can get something for free that he could have afforded to pay for.
__________________
Without going into details ;) ....I would guess in the region of...
12 months probabtion
200 hrs community service
EDIT
The courts REALLY frown upon this kind of crime, and I would seriously look at getting a lawyer to help.
He needs to speak to the Duty Solicitor at the Mags Ct at the very least; personally I'd be off to see my solicitor first thing Monday.
Ok
Remember i mentioned about my mate who got accused of stealing some money from his employers. Originally the summons said £350 but the company are now saying £1000 give or take a few pounds. His solicitor got the case adjourned as she was not happy with the evidence they had as it did not show him taking anything. She requested the adjunment for them to get more evidence if they have it
Just to recap
He did plead guilty at the police station
First offence
Needed money to aid him in court
Also another point to make is he now has a date for court to try and get access to his daughter.
Should he mention this?
Will it help him?
Thanks again
Threads merged.
If it's a continuation of the same topic, there's no need for a new thread.
Magistrates court and pleading guilty. I dont think he has a lawyer. And he took about £700-£800
To give you a rough idea, a feller got caught stealing from where I used to work many, many years ago, he was taking it from the till nightly and I think he took around £250 in total he ended up with some measure of fine, not much of a punishment imo as stealing from your employers when you're in a position of trust is a bit low but then he has to suffer having a criminal record which will hamper future job applications.
Best of luck to him I feel his need for his daughter, and for anyone ( he sounds a honest chap as he is willing to own up ) to be so desperate shows he loves his daughter alot.
Best of luck to him :tu: although every crime has its punishment I commend him being willing to accept he did wrong.
andygrif
14-07-2005, 11:36
Ok
Remember i mentioned about my mate who got accused of stealing some money from his employers. Originally the summons said £350 but the company are now saying £1000 give or take a few pounds. His solicitor got the case adjourned as she was not happy with the evidence they had as it did not show him taking anything. She requested the adjunment for them to get more evidence if they have it
Just to recap
He did plead guilty at the police station
First offence
Needed money to aid him in court
If there is no evidence to support the prosecution, then it doesn't matter if he pleads admits guilt or not. That was what I was told about the driver of a hit and run accident by the old bill - go figure!
If there is no evidence to support the prosecution, then it doesn't matter if he pleads admits guilt or not. That was what I was told about the driver of a hit and run accident by the old bill - go figure!
This is in place to prevent attention-seekers coughing up for crimes they didn't commit - it really does happen, as in the case of the 1985 Swansea Sex Shop murder where the Darvell brothers were convicted then cleared on appeal as it was argued they admitted to doing it even though there was considerable evidence (ignored by the prosecution) so show they weren't guilty.
Do you still think he will go prison?
Do you still think he will go prison?
Highly unlikely, depends on the magistrate.
His solicitor advised him he could get up to 6 months but would only serve 3
His solicitor advised him he could get up to 6 months but would only serve 3
That's worst case scenario for a first offense of this nature and imo pretty unlikely.
( he sounds a honest chap as he is willing to own up ) <snip>I see what you're trying to say, but if he was an 'honest chap' then he wouldn't be in this situation.
Sorry, but I think that there are certain things which I wouldn't discuss on a public bulletin board, and a pending court case definitely counts as one of them. I wouldn't get legal advice from the people on the web, similarly, I wouldn't want to see an open-heart surgeon Googling stuff prior to performing surgery on me, or a fighter pilot consulting multimap.com before a mission etc...
I think referring a simple case story online is nothing to a heart surgeon, we do not know this guys name or location, hence I think its pretty fair and being kept in the open and not pinned on someones name :)
Nothing to do with peoples' names and personal details, etc... but none of us (with the exception of monkey breath perhaps) are in a position to offer any advice except 'go see someone who is in a position to help you'.
Chris W
Since you never got back to me on msn the other night can you talk to me before tuesday please or reply on here?
What do you think will happen?
Do you still think prison is not likely?
Thanks
zoombini
17-07-2005, 23:01
Well, he won't be getting that much access to his daughter now, this will have cocked it up for sure.
Well, he won't be getting that much access to his daughter now, this will have cocked it up for sure.
Don't be so cruel zoomi, they have visiting rights. :Sprint:
Well, he won't be getting that much access to his daughter now, this will have cocked it up for sure.
Your an idiot
And thanks Chris for not getting back to me
Chris W
Since you never got back to me on msn the other night can you talk to me before tuesday please or reply on here?
...........
And thanks Chris for not getting back to meNoone on here owes you anything, we all spend time on these forums out of our own time and choice.
If a promise was made to get back to you by a certain time then there is probably a good reason for not doing so.
cnewton2k
19-07-2005, 12:58
First A Mag Court can give you a 12 month sentence, if the want to go higher they can but only if they wear a Red Band round there arm.
Second if you got a 6 month setence and it was a first offence then he would more then likey serve 1 month and get 2 out ona tag because the prison service is over flowing.
Now in my opinion there is very very litlle chance that he would get sent down, i would think it will be a slap on the wrist and a community order. It is his first offence and has pleaded Guilty from the start, those 2 things by themsleve have to make the judge lenient.
Did i say anyone did NOOOO
Chris was on msn i asked to talk to him he said sure so i pasted him some stuff thm all of a sudden he had to go and said give me 5 minutes
So i did and talked to him again.
Once again no answer at all through the night yet his msn was going away and coming back off away so i know he was there.
__________________
First A Mag Court can give you a 12 month sentence, if the want to go higher they can but only if they wear a Red Band round there arm.
Second if you got a 6 month setence and it was a first offence then he would more then likey serve 1 month and get 2 out ona tag because the prison service is over flowing.
Now in my opinion there is very very litlle chance that he would get sent down, i would think it will be a slap on the wrist and a community order. It is his first offence and has pleaded Guilty from the start, those 2 things by themsleve have to make the judge lenient.
I presumed the magistrates could only give out 6 month sentences
cnewton2k
19-07-2005, 13:03
No
i speak from experience of this, the max they can give is 18 months with a band.
Stipendiary Magistrates - these are more powerful and sit on more important cases
zoombini
19-07-2005, 14:54
Your an idiot
And your a plonka! :mad:
And your supposed "mate" is an even bigger plonka!
A recent conviction for theft will NOT look good when he is applying for access rights to see his child.
Plain & simple.
It's not cruel, it's just the way it is.
Now get out of the cuboard & admit it, it's really you isn't it? :D
Nope it aint me but no matter what i say you will think otherwise so meh who cares
zoombini
20-07-2005, 09:39
Looking at the reported post link someone obviously does.
I don't care if it's you or not, but theft is theft no matter what the reason for it. Convictions don't do you any good when up in front of someone who is going to allow you access to a child.
I would hope that the father gets as much access to his child as he wants, but to have to steal to get it is just not on.
Adjurned again
Still no evidence
Hi i have absolutley no idea whether i'm e-mailing the right section, but this probably shows you how stupid i must be. But I hope an expert forum person could direct and advise me..... ( Please!!- this is my first outing on this forum or any forum). I have one simply problem ( thats what i'm lead to believe!) I have a plasma tv, freeview box and a recordable DVD player(Not bragging) . The problem is I can't understand how I can record from my freeview to my DVD player - equally how do I tune my DVD player to my Freeview box. ( as I finally mastered to tune tv to DVD but now i have to run everything from freeview and this is causing me grief) Anyone help or even posting this to the right part of the forum will truly help me. Thx u - i wait for advice.
Hi Jerboa
Welcome to the forum - you are posting in the wrong section. If you click here (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=26) and select 'New Thread', you can post your enquire there and get it sorted :D
jellybaby
25-07-2005, 19:57
Adjurned again
Still no evidence
When I went through a similar thing, mine was adjourned every 2 weeks for 18 months :(
Well my mate was in court again yesterday and he got his punishment to. £750 repayable back at £100 a month and 180 Community service.
They said if at the police station he had said not guilty he would of been in prison.
He is very lucky.
Sorry Angelus, but is there a link between your mate and the other thread about you being in court?
I'm just getting really confused now :confused: :dunce:
Sorry Angelus, but is there a link between your mate and the other thread about you being in court?
I'm just getting really confused now :confused: :dunce:
I am in court for my kid.
I am in court for my kid.
So why have you got Community Service :confused:
If you re read it properly it says My Mate
Ok today I went into court and got community service. I know what i did was wrong and will spare the details. But from now on i want to abide by the law. <snipped>
:erm:
:erm:
Sorry that weas for something completey different.
My mistake i forgot about that thread
If you re read it properly it says My Mate
If you re-read my post, I'm not talking about this thread
EDIT: And your mate was in court for basically the same reason anyway
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