Brake Pads

[leef78]

Good afternoon,

Need a bit of advice on a motoring issue.. brake pads.

Im going to change them on my old renault clio (R reg) tonight, I've bought the pads last night and got my trusty haynes manual at the ready, its says in the manual that my break pads should come with "guide pin bolts" and I must discard the old ones and must use new ones when I change the pads.... well my MINTEX pads didn't come with any type of pins/bolts!? Does anyone know if I actually HAVE to use new guide bolts or will the old ones do the trick? if i must use new ones anyone know where I can get them from? or should I just take my car to Kwik-***** and let them do the job!! :) Thanks in advance
Lee

[Tuftus]

You can usually get a 'fitting kit' from Halfords which will have the new pins etc in it.

Personally though I have always reused the old ones with no problems but you never know this may be specific to your car.

[orangebird]

Good afternoon,

Need a bit of advice on a motoring issue.. brake pads.

Im going to change them on my old renault clio (R reg) tonight, I've bought the pads last night and got my trusty haynes manual at the ready, its says in the manual that my break pads should come with "guide pin bolts" and I must discard the old ones and must use new ones when I change the pads.... well my MINTEX pads didn't come with any type of pins/bolts!? Does anyone know if I actually HAVE to use new guide bolts or will the old ones do the trick? if i must use new ones anyone know where I can get them from? or should I just take my car to Kwik-***** and let them do the job!! :) Thanks in advance
Lee

I don't think you shuld be DIYing something like brakes on your car, especially if you're not quite sure of it.... Go to Kwik Fit.

[Paul K]

Unless you are confident or experienced in doing this sort of thing I would definately advise against it. If you have previously undertaken DIY repairs to the car and feel up to the challenge then fair enough as long as you test the brakes before going out onto the public highway with them. Incorrectly fitting brakes could lead to an accident in which you would be liable to prosecution and would possibly invalidate your car insurance.

[nffc]

Take it to a garage- preferably one that specialises in the make of car yours is (ie a Renault dealer) as it may need specialist parts/expertise etc etc...

Brakes are pretty crucial as you can imagine, not being able to stop whilst doing 70 down the motorway (or 100 if you play for Forest and are called Adam Nowland ;)) could be quite serious so it's not exactly a situation where a botch job will do!

And BTW- :welcome: to the site. :)

[Roy MM]

Also :welcome: to CF

[Jules]

If it was a simple job you could do it your self but with brakes you can't be too carefull so I would take it some were.

Welcome to the forum :)

[paulyoung666]

the bolts will be what is known as ' stretch bolts ' and should not be re-used :disturbd: , as above it sounds as though you do not know what you are doing and as suggested above , take it to a garage , nothing personal you understand , and a :welcome: from me as well :)

[homealone]

changing disk pads should be ok for most people - just make sure you have a friend & the necessary to bleed the hydraulics afterwards. (special spanner, rubber tube with non return valve, glass jar, new clean hydraulic fluid)

- just remember that brakes are not something you can start taking to bits & change your mind , half way through. As has been said, if you are at all unsure, get it done by a professional.

[zoombini]

BEtter still, find a local garage & arrange to take it into them & for them to allow you to change them with their guidance.

That way they can teach you how to do it properly & safely.

Then it will only cost you £25 to change all your brakes rather than oodles in future.

[Flubflow]

Well I've never had any formal training at replacing brakes pads/shoes, brake pipers, wheelcylinders, calipers, seals etc and I've always done my own ever since I was 17 and they've never failed me. I draw the line at replacing the discs myself though (`cos they or the hub can be a bugger to get off sometimes).
It's the rear drum brakes that are the worst ones for novices to do (what with all those shoes, springs, levers, seized-on drums, impossibly large hub/drum nuts which need a spanner the size of donkey's **** etc.).

Armed with a Haynes manual plus a bit of common sense and the right tools then, as long as you are not completely cack-handed, it should not be a problem (and you'll learn something too). Some cars are dead easy to do and others are a nightmare. If in doubt, let someone with experience do it but you watch so yo can do it next time.

General things to note:

The pistons will need pushing back in so that the new thicker pads will fit in and you need to do this evenly and carefully so you don't damage the surrounding rubber dust boot. If, as on most small/medium cars, you only have piston(s) on one side of a sliding caliper then you need to make sure the moving half of the caliper can in fact slide freely along its bolts. It's no good just levering it, ramming the pad in, letting go and hoping for the best because unless it is quite free then your brakes will bind.

If you've topped up the brake fluid since the previous pads were fitted then watch the filling reservoir doesn't overflow when you push the pistons back in `cos if it does then it will strip any surrounding bodywork paint (take the filler cap off and put a rag tightly round the outside of the reservoir).

Always use a proper fitting kit for your model (comes with all the required new pins/clips/bolts/shims/copper-grease etc). If you don't then, apart from the safety risk, you probably end up having to walk/taxi it to the autoparts shop to get one anyway when you bust a rusty clip or something when taking off the old pads.
Put plenty of copper-grease on the anti-squeal shims and on the various moving/exposed parts but do not get any grease on the surface of the pads or the discs.

If you see any brake fluid on the pads then you've got leaky piston seal and you'll at least need a seal kit but you may have a scored piston, a cracked caliper, leakey pipe union/fexi-pipe etc.

Whilst your down there, check other things such as the brake disks for scoring & trueness, steering/suspension joints/mounts, UV/CV drivershaft boots, wheelhub bearings etc etc.

In general, this kind of job can take an hour or it can take all day depending on how relatively seized up everything might be. With that in mind, if you are trying to do the job with tools from "The Pound shop" and you always have trouble doing things like fitting shelves then forget it, the job's not for you.

Final safety note: Don't rely on just a flimsy car jack. Shove the wheel you have taken off underneath the car or use some bricks etc for additional safety.

Oh and don't stomp on your new brakes straight away. Bed them in for a few miles by braking more lightly over a longer distance.

[paulyoung666]

I draw the line at replacing the discs myself though (`cos they or the hub can be a bugger to get off sometimes).


easy way to get discs off is to cut them from edge to centre with a hacksaw and then bray them , works a treat :tu:

[bob_a_builder]

Conflicting advice alert

"get it done by a professional."

vs

"Go to Kwik Fit"

[leef78]

Thanks everyone for replying/welcome its helped me a lot! and thanks Flubflow for your detailed response. Just as a note, my mate who's done pads on cars a good few times is doing the job with me tonight as im not massivly experienced in such things. He reckons I dont really need new pin bolts but after reading all your responses im off to halfords to get one these "kits" with all the new clips, bolts etc. Does anyone have any idea how much they cost?

Thanks again everyone for the quick reponses! Awesome! :)

[Flubflow]

easy way to get discs off is to cut them from edge to centre with a hacksaw and then bray them , works a treat :tu:

Good idea but you have to weigh up the effort of doing all that against the mere £25 in labour it cost me to have preceisely that job done by my local friendly independent garage ;).
__________________

Thanks everyone for replying/welcome its helped me a lot! and thanks Flubflow for your detailed response. Just as a note, my mate who's done pads on cars a good few times is doing the job with me tonight as im not massivly experienced in such things. He reckons I dont really need new pin bolts but after reading all your responses im off to halfords to get one these "kits" with all the new clips, bolts etc. Does anyone have any idea how much they cost?

Thanks again everyone for the quick reponses! Awesome! :)

Not sure about price but Halfords, although cheaper than a dealership, are still quite expensive. Don't you have one of those small independent discount autoparts shops in your locale?

[paulyoung666]

Good idea but you have to weigh up the effort of doing all that against the mere £25 in labour it cost me to have preceisely that job done by my local friendly independent garage ;).

you would be surprised how easy it is to cut through them , they are only cast iron ;) :D :D :D

[Flubflow]

you would be surprised how easy it is to cut through them , they are only cast iron ;) :D :D :D


Yeah but I saved money on cutting disks for my angle grinder ;) and he put in the new caliper and pads I had for it too so I thought, "what the hell, relax and treat ya'sel" ;).

[paulyoung666]

Yeah but I saved money on cutting disks for my angle grinder ;) and he put in the new caliper and pads I had for it too so I thought, "what the hell, relax and treat ya'sel" ;).


i hope you protected the paintwork :disturbd: ;) :D :D :D

[Wicked_and_Crazy]

changing disk pads should be ok for most people - just make sure you have a friend & the necessary to bleed the hydraulics afterwards. (special spanner, rubber tube with non return valve, glass jar, new clean hydraulic fluid)



what??? :confused: what a load of old tosh!. If your changing the pads you are not going to be opening the hydraulic circuit and therefore there is no need to bleed the brakes afterwards as its not possible to get air in the circuit. You will however have to push the caliper pistons back into the caliper, these stick out further to compensate for the worn brake pads. This will possibly mean that you brake fliud resevoir will overflow if it has been topped up to the max.

[paulyoung666]

what??? :confused: what a load of old tosh!. If your changing the pads you are not going to be opening the hydraulic circuit and therefore there is no need to bleed the brakes afterwards as its not possible to get air in the circuit. You will however have to push the caliper pistons back into the caliper, these stick out further to compensate for the worn brake pads. This will possibly mean that you brake fliud resevoir will overflow if it has been topped up to the max.


dont forget , there is always the possibility of the pistons being forced out if someone pushed the brake pedal while the pads were out ;)

[Wicked_and_Crazy]

dont forget , there is always the possibility of the pistons being forced out if someone pushed the brake pedal while the pads were out ;)

lol, youve done that too huh :D most do have a retainer these days

[homealone]

what??? :confused: what a load of old tosh!. If your changing the pads you are not going to be opening the hydraulic circuit and therefore there is no need to bleed the brakes afterwards as its not possible to get air in the circuit. You will however have to push the caliper pistons back into the caliper, these stick out further to compensate for the worn brake pads. This will possibly mean that you brake fliud resevoir will overflow if it has been topped up to the max.

my father was a qualified 'fitter', having served 22 years in the RAF - he told me 'always' bleed the hydraulics after doing any work whatsoever on a braking system.

The point is, if you already have access to the bleed nipple, you may as well take that couple of extra minutes to be sure - and a bit of fresh fluid in the lines won't do any harm, either.

I don't deny that removing disk pads 'shouldn't' let air in - I would not gamble my life or my wifes, on that assumption, personally, but the choice is obviously there ;)

[Flubflow]

You really should replace all the brake fluid with new every 24 months at least. Brake fluid absorbs water and over time its corrosion inhibitors will also be less effective.

[budwieser]

If you have to push the caliper pistons back to get the new pads in, take the fluid resevoir cap off and crack open the bleed nipple as you do it as pushing the fluid back up the system can damage the seals in the servo!

Just a bit of advice for you mate. don`t forget as well to use a bit if copperslip on the caliper, pins and anti-rattle shims but `DON`T` get any on the surface of the pads themselves.

[Escapee]

You really should replace all the brake fluid with new every 24 months at least. Brake fluid absorbs water and over time its corrosion inhibitors will also be less effective.

I have rebuilt complete systems with all new parts on some of my classic cars, I always use silicon fluid. It's damn expensive, but doesn't absorb moisture. I have found the car can be stood for six months and the brakes still work, with normal fluid they will most likely be jammed.

I have also turned new stainless steel sleeves for master cylinders and loctited them in, I also modified some Audi 80 wheel cylinders for a BMW 600. I guess that will alarm some people, but I am probably over cautious with brakes and I am happier trusting my own engineering work than anyone elses.

One of the guys who I work with, went to a main dealer a couple of months ago with his Fiat Multipla. They stripped the brakes and decided they didn't have the parts in stock, they gave him the car back to use overnight and the brakes almost failed completely on his way home. Apparently they left a retaining bar out of both sides on the back, and the pistons came out leaking fluid everywhere.

As I say, I never trust anyone elses work even if they are a main dealer.....it's too late to go back under warranty if your dead. :Yikes:

[Tuftus]

I can see everyones point of veiw here re safety, I was taught by my dad when I started driving to do most of the easy maintenance on my car(s).

If you have a haynes manual you cant go far wrong as they walk you through step by step and mark each jobs difficulty with spanners so you can guage against your personal ability as to wether you should attempt the job.

The golden rule I guess is that if you are not sure, ask for advice and re assess your ability to do the task, if you are still unsure then it may well be best to take it to a garage.

Oh, and how incredibly rude of me not to :welcome: you by the way...

:angel:

[zoombini]

I took mine to a mechanic friend who let me do it & told me what I was doing wrong.

Since I got ripped off by Quick fit many years ago I have done them myself.

[fireman328]

dont forget , there is always the possibility of the pistons being forced out if someone pushed the brake pedal while the pads were out ;)

Oh don't remind me about it :o :o :o :o

[leef78]

Well guys just to let you know that I've done it! Thanks for all the advice,
it took just under an hour to do both sides.... the hardest part was jacking the car up with my crappy renault jack! but once the axle stands were in place it was really easy, my friend made me do it all while he gave instructions. My old pads were pretty much down to the metal!! thank god I got them in time before they did the brake discs in.
Anyway I'll stop going on with myself and thanks again EVERYONE your advice was great.

Lee

[homealone]

Well guys just to let you know that I've done it! Thanks for all the advice,
it took just under an hour to do both sides.... the hardest part was jacking the car up with my crappy renault jack! but once the axle stands were in place it was really easy, my friend made me do it all while he gave instructions. My old pads were pretty much down to the metal!! thank god I got them in time before they did the brake discs in.
Anyway I'll stop going on with myself and thanks again EVERYONE your advice was great.

Lee

nice one :tu: - thanks for the feedback :)

[paulyoung666]

sorted , now another bit of advice , use the brakes but dont abuse them for a few hundred miles , the last thing you want to do is glaze them over and find out you have the stopping ability of a shopping trolley ;) , you need to realise that the pads need to bed into the discs , although you may think the discs surface is flat , it isnt , give them time to get to know each other :)

[Tuftus]

Well guys just to let you know that I've done it! Thanks for all the advice,
it took just under an hour to do both sides.... the hardest part was jacking the car up with my crappy renault jack! but once the axle stands were in place it was really easy, my friend made me do it all while he gave instructions. My old pads were pretty much down to the metal!! thank god I got them in time before they did the brake discs in.
Anyway I'll stop going on with myself and thanks again EVERYONE your advice was great.

Lee

Glad we could help!!!

:)

[homealone]

sorted , now another bit of advice , use the brakes but dont abuse them for a few hundred miles , the last thing you want to do is glaze them over and find out you have the stopping ability of a shopping trolley ;) , you need to realise that the pads need to bed into the discs , although you may think the discs surface is flat , it isnt , give them time to get to know each other :)

good advice, too :tu:

[leef78]

sorted , now another bit of advice , use the brakes but dont abuse them for a few hundred miles , the last thing you want to do is glaze them over and find out you have the stopping ability of a shopping trolley ;) , you need to realise that the pads need to bed into the discs , although you may think the discs surface is flat , it isnt , give them time to get to know each other :)

Thanks Paul, I'll be sure to take it easy with them for the couple of weeks.
Cheers
Lee

[Wicked_and_Crazy]

my father was a qualified 'fitter', having served 22 years in the RAF - he told me 'always' bleed the hydraulics after doing any work whatsoever on a braking system.

The point is, if you already have access to the bleed nipple, you may as well take that couple of extra minutes to be sure - and a bit of fresh fluid in the lines won't do any harm, either.

I don't deny that removing disk pads 'shouldn't' let air in - I would not gamble my life or my wifes, on that assumption, personally, but the choice is obviously there ;)

if you take your car to a garage to have new pads fitted they will not bleed the brakes. Most cars you can reach the bleed nipple on the front calipers without even removing the wheel. Plus why mess with the bleed nipple if you dont need to as that can let dirt into the system
__________________

sorted , now another bit of advice , use the brakes but dont abuse them for a few hundred miles , the last thing you want to do is glaze them over and find out you have the stopping ability of a shopping trolley ;) , you need to realise that the pads need to bed into the discs , although you may think the discs surface is flat , it isnt , give them time to get to know each other :)

yes, plus when the pad is new it will not fully mate with the disc and as a result of hard braking its easy to get a heat build up in a narrower ring which can warp the disc

[homealone]

if you take your car to a garage to have new pads fitted they will not bleed the brakes. Most cars you can reach the bleed nipple on the front calipers without even removing the wheel. Plus why mess with the bleed nipple if you dont need to as that can let dirt into the system<snip>

if I took my car to my dealer to have new pads, I would expect a full fluid change & purge of the system, with a price to go with it, anything else would not be safe, nor satisfactory, in my opinion - you are entitled to yours :)