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View Full Version : Easy router/networking instructions..? (plus other waffle)


gavin
15-06-2005, 18:08
Hello, this is my first ever post on this here good website. I've got a query at the end but I fancied getting a bit of ntl: nonsense off my chest first...

I had an ntl: fella come round today and set up a new 250 cable modem. They'd been round about 9 months ago and installed a 200 modem, but nobody told me of any benefits in changing over, so I stuck to using the set-top box. If it ain't bust, don't muck around with it, so I thought.

Then I realised that I could have a cable modem without needing to have the phone phone line or STB. So as I hardly ever watch the cable channels I thought I'd save £20 a month by getting rid of the cable TV.

I also had a bit of annoyance on Monday with someone in broadband support. It sounded like he was in a call centre in India (a first experience for me re. ntl). The set-top box connection was down, so I thought I'd try setting up the old 200 modem myself using the CD, seeing that I was going to be switched over anyway on Wednesday. I went through all the steps and it wouldn't let me go beyond typing in my name and PIN details etc. I'd shut down the firewall as instructed, and I don't use anti-virus software, but this bloke with his very broad and very rapid Indian accent was saying "My computer cannot connect to your computer because you have a firewall and antivirus software running". I said, "I haven't. I've shut down ZoneAlarm completely, the Windows firewall is off, and I don't use antivirus software". He went on "Well Sir I am telling you that my computer cannot see or connect with your computer because you are running both firewall and antivirus software. You need to go to the vendor where you first bought the computer, or go to PC World, and tell them that your computer is working OK but that you need to ask them to disable the firewall and antivirus software that I am telling you that you are running". And he would not budge from this despite (or because of) my increasing exasperation. It was such a crazy conversation -- like I was saying "black is black", and he was saying "I am telling you that black is white, even if your eyes tell you otherwise". I ended the call rather impolitely: "Right right, OK, I'll speak to my 'vendor', whoever that's supposed to be. Bye." and then hung up. But I was glad that didn't get any more rude to him, maddening though it was.

The engineer who came round today was pretty funny. He said he was fed up with ntl: and that "for a communications company, nobody ever bothers communicating anything to anybody". I told him I got the strong impression that various departments don't talk to each other, and that I'd been given two conflicting instructions regarding the redundant STB. One person I spoke to said "Dispose of it. Throw it in the bin". At the end of the call I double-checked, asking "Are you definitely telling me to chuck the set-top box in the bin??" :erm: He said "Yeah mate, just chuck it. Use it as a door stop. Give it to your dog to chew on. Do what you like with it". Then some other customer service person I spoke to yesterday said "No, don't throw it away! We'll charge you if you do! They cost £150!" Bloody hell!

My main query here is whether someone can possibly point me in the direction of some simple instructions about setting up a router to connect two fixed PCs (i.e. not a wireless connection) to the internet via this cable modem. A recommendation of a router that works well with the 250 modem and with two PCs running WinXP (both using ethernet rather than USB connections) would be great. I've had a look around here but haven't found anything to that effect. The facility to plug in a third PC to the network would be useful at a later date as well.

With thanks in advance for any pointers/links anyone can provide (and apologies for my dull rant)!

Cheers!

Raistlin
15-06-2005, 18:15
First of all, :welcome: to Cable forum.

Secondly, I know you said you didn't need wireless but for the difference in price it's worth buying one now and then you have the facility if you want to use wireless later. You can still use a wired connection to up to four PCs with the router below.

The Linksys range are good, and this one would certainly be compatible:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00008DOYO/qid=1118855570/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/026-0586941-4057200

As for instructions:



Switch everything off (Modem, PCs etc)
Plug the router in (but leave it switched off) to your Modem and to the ethernet ports on your PCs
Turn the Modem back on and leave it for the lights to settle
Turn the router on and wait for the lights to settle
Turn the PCs on
Linksys routers come with DHCP enabled as standard (they automatically assign IP addressses to your PCs) so you don't need to worry about that initially. The only thing you will want to do in the first instance is go through the router's settings and make sure it is secure (changing passwords, restricting the wireless access etc).

Basically, follow the instructions that come with it on the quick start sheet and it should all work fine. You must turn everything off and back on as I've described above though or it just won't work.

If you get any problems just post back once you've got the router and I'm sure someone will talk you through the process.

hairy_mick
15-06-2005, 18:21
welcome to nthell gavin what i used before going wirless was a net gear web router this did all the setting up with the option to tweak the settings if you want should be able to pick one up foe 30quid or less mine had four ports that should be enough you will also need cat5 leads to both pc's

gavin
15-06-2005, 18:49
Thanks very much for the tips -- it's sounds a lot less confusing than I was expecting!

My housemate will be buying the router, and although it sounds daft, I don't want a wireless one because I don't like the idea of sleeping in a room with radio waves blasting out of a box where I sleep..! Housemate also agrees that a few less radio waves than necessary won't be a bad thing. Plus the two PCs never move, and I hope to have moved out of this house before the year is out -- if I'll have scraped together enough money to by a wireless laptop, I'll be able to afford to move!

Raistlin
15-06-2005, 18:55
In that case this one should do the trick (the top one on this page). Good price too.

My father has used this company but I haven't, he says they're very good though:

http://www.nickknows.com/index.html?target=dept_1.html&lang=en-gb

JohnHorb
15-06-2005, 18:55
One important point - DON'T get an ADSL modem/router - these won't work on cable.

danielf
15-06-2005, 19:11
In that case this one should do the trick (the top one on this page). Good price too.

My father has used this company but I haven't, he says they're very good though:

http://www.nickknows.com/index.html?target=dept_1.html&lang=en-gb

I doubt you're linking to what you mean to be linking to.

To the OP: May I suggest the following router? This is a basic, but very popular wired router

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005KAC7/qid=1118859101/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/026-2846463-1550860

Nidge
15-06-2005, 19:12
I have a linskys 4 port wireless router, I set it up in no time at all, my oldest has a machine in his bedroom so he can use my 3meg connection.

Raistlin
15-06-2005, 19:18
I doubt you're linking to what you mean to be linking to.

You're right (bl**dy frames :dunce: ), this is what I meant. Router at the top of this page:

http://www.nickknows.com/en-gb/dept_58.html

<Edit: Same one you linked to though, different prices. The NickKnows one looks cheaper but I don't know what the postage charges are like. With the Amazon one you will get free postage.>
__________________

Ok, the price on the NickKnows site is Ex Vat.

He also charges postage so it looks like it's cheaper from Amazon.

danielf
15-06-2005, 19:23
You're right (bl**dy frames :dunce: ), this is what I meant. Router at the top of this page:

http://www.nickknows.com/en-gb/dept_58.html

<Edit: Same one you linked to though, different prices. The NickKnows one looks cheaper but I don't know what the postage charges are like. With the Amazon one you will get free postage.>
__________________

Ok, the price on the NickKnows site is Ex Vat.

He also charges postage so it looks like it's cheaper from Amazon.

I win then? :p:

Raistlin
15-06-2005, 19:36
I win then? :p:

Suppose so.....

:sulk:

Halcyon
15-06-2005, 23:55
It is very easy to connect your computers to a wired router.
The cable modem plugs into the WAN port on your router and then all the computers plug into the routers other ports.
Most routers come with an easy set up configuartion page and if you wither go with linksys or netgear, you should find installation very easy.

gavin
18-06-2005, 16:37
Hmm... I printed out descriptions of the recommended routers, but said housemate has gone out and bought a straightforward "8-port Ethernet Switch", with eight ports labelled from TX1 to TX8. A bloke at some stall at a computer fair "who sounded like he knew what he was talking about" told him that would be simpler and less complicated than a router for a fixed network.

I'm not so sure though -- as I think I understood it, a router deals with all the IP address nonsense so that the network doesn't get confused and huffy about having two computers connected. So I'm not sure what the implications are going to be in connecting two PCs running WinXP to share the 3Mb internet connection through an ntl:250 cable modem using a straightforward ethernet switch. The PCs won't be sharing any files or printers or anything.

Could anyone help me with some advice here please, or point me to a link that explains it? Maybe we'll get around to trying to hook the thing up to see what happens once the weather returns to its more season March impersonations next week..!

JohnHorb
18-06-2005, 18:28
Sorry, but your housemate's been conned. A switch will work fine for connecting the two PCs together, if you give them fixed IP addrsses, but then neither will be able to access t'Internet. If you don't give the PCs fixed IP addresses, one will get an IP fron NTL, and will be able to access the net, and the other will be left in limbo.

nightdevil
19-06-2005, 00:26
you will be able to network and have both pcs on the internet at the same time using the ethernet hub but one will be the 'main' computer controlling the connection while the other will be the 'guest' computer connecting through the main computer ..in order for the guest to be online the main computer has to be on at the same time... using a router resolves this problem as the router is connected to the cable modem rather than one of the computers and as long as the router is powered on then both computers will have an internet connection as and when they need it

JohnHorb
19-06-2005, 08:55
you will be able to network and have both pcs on the internet at the same time using the ethernet hub but one will be the 'main' computer controlling the connection while the other will be the 'guest' computer connecting through the main computer ..in order for the guest to be online the main computer has to be on at the same time... using a router resolves this problem as the router is connected to the cable modem rather than one of the computers and as long as the router is powered on then both computers will have an internet connection as and when they need it
:welcome: to CF. That was my first thought, but I don't think it will work like that. The 'main' computer will get an IP address from NTL, but where will the second get an IP from? I think what you are talking about is ICS (Internet Connection Sharing). This would require two network interfaces in the main computer - one connected to the modem and one to the secondary computer, either via a cross-over cable or via the hub. (You only really need a hub if connecting three or more devices).

nightdevil
19-06-2005, 11:50
:welcome: to CF. That was my first thought, but I don't think it will work like that. The 'main' computer will get an IP address from NTL, but where will the second get an IP from? I think what you are talking about is ICS (Internet Connection Sharing). This would require two network interfaces in the main computer - one connected to the modem and one to the secondary computer, either via a cross-over cable or via the hub. (You only really need a hub if connecting three or more devices).

yeah I know you only really need a hub if you are connecting 3 or more computers, and either way...using the hub or just using the simple network cross-cable you would still need 2 ethernet cards in the main computer if you wanted to connect the modem by ethernet too (which is always better) but you could connect the modem to the main computer via usb and then use the etherent to connect to the hub..remember his roomate has already bought the hub...ideally if it were me I would return the hub and buy a router but I dont know if that is an option in this case:)

JohnHorb
19-06-2005, 12:01
True - hadn't considered the USB option. The hub would just be an unnecessary complication though - a cross-over cable would do the job. I guess it depends what the OP already has in the way of cables. I doubt the 'return' option is available if he bought the hub from a computer fair. Ebay might be the better option.

nightdevil
19-06-2005, 13:56
True - hadn't considered the USB option. The hub would just be an unnecessary complication though - a cross-over cable would do the job. I guess it depends what the OP already has in the way of cables. I doubt the 'return' option is available if he bought the hub from a computer fair. Ebay might be the better option.

not really an unnecessary complication cos he did say at the end of his first post that an option to add a third pc would be good...using the hub would allow that for the future and would mean that instead of when they got the third pc having to re-network all over again it would be fairly simple just to add and make the connection

gavin
20-06-2005, 17:27
Thanks very much for the various pieces of advice. I told housemate Matt that the ethernet switch won't work. I *had* actually researched what was needed (i.e. sought advice on this forum and received helpful information) and so printed out for him exactly what he needed to get. If he decided to ignore that advice, it's his look-out, and he can take the switch back and swap it for something that'll work. He paid £16 for it; for the sake of an extra fiver or so he could have got what I told him to get in the first place. (Although as he's even less technically clued-up than me, I can imagine how easy it would be to be swayed by some stallholder who started talking complicated-sounding IP talk at him. I imagine maybe that stall holder didn't even have a wired router to sell him and so fobbed him off with the switch)...