View Full Version : [Merged] Leeds router problems?
There seems to be a problem with one of the Leeds core routers again 80.0.241.61 it has up 70% packet loss (this has happened several times recently). Is there anyone on here that can let the relevant support know? Or let me know who to contact. I have tried both customer services and BB support and both tell me they donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t know who to contact.:dozey: The same answer I received the last 2 times I tried to report it. It has lasted for several days in the past and totally stops me playing any games which go via this router.
Thanks in advance.
Djofyork
14-06-2005, 22:46
i have the same problem m8 i live in york near leeds and get the packetloss at the same ip 80.0.241.61 i noticed that sometimes the route which packets i send to eu servers for testing changes from 80.0.241.61 (leed-t2core-a-ge-wan63.inet.ntl.com) to 80.0.241.41 (leed-t2core-a-ge-wan64.inet.ntl.com) randomly (maybe the backup router?).
leeds is the main exchange for ntl in the north so i could see this being a load issue ntl scrimping on burst rates for peaktimes as this only happens for me after around 8pm. some1 needs to sort this mess out dont be fobbed of by their technical staff on the phone had that for 4 years now worst support i ahve ever experienced when it comes to tech issues. i will ring them tomorrow also when i get back from work but its to l8 tonight for me. this has been happening for months now but not on this scale if its not solved i will change my isp asap.
another thing i noticed was that i'm using the 750k package (80KB/s roughly i think :S an i think that right as they have put up the limits a while ago last i heard) but i am recording download rates of up to 250KB/s, have they misconfigured there router allowing all users to have a 2mbit connection dont ask me but i could see that as the source of the overloaded router and i would rather have zero packet loss than a crapy 2mbit connection. (btw sry about crap spelling/typos far to tired for this)
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oh yeh just before i go could some of the techs that post here give us anymore clues? i know their phone supports is bad but maybe the actual techs know something :) anything would be useful
thanks DJ
JFYI;
Both ip's you posted appear to belong to to the same router (leeds core router a).
The 750k package was changed to 2m in March (though you may not have been auto upgraded until more recently).
AFAIK, the ntl core network is far from being overloaded at anytime.
I'm sure our resident network guy will be along at some point to confirm.
Djofyork
14-06-2005, 23:05
this problem hasnt just happened today m8 i reported this issue 4months ago are u sure?
It seems to come and go. It can be ok for several weeks and then has a fit. We have had routers where I work (Not the same size as NTL but still 10,000 user network) that develop faults like this. They suddenly lose the plot and a reboot fixes it for a while till it goes again. I think this may be the problem here that no one is looking at what causes the problem just restarting and walking away. Then again I may be talking utter rubbish. Itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s not the fault that gets me (things go wrong) Itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s the fact that you cannot tell anyone about it who will do anything.
Not being able to play World of Warcraft when its playing up is a bit of a downer to.;)
this problem hasnt just happened today m8 i reported this issue 4months ago are u sure?To which bit are you directing this question ?
Djofyork
14-06-2005, 23:09
directed at 'the ntl core network is far from being overloaded at anytime.'
ktbken i see your point to behonest if this isnt resolved when i ring up tomorrow i will have to change isp as i own a web site hosting company and need a top notch connection to be able to monitor how long my servers have been live btw why doesnt ntl have an uptime grantee like the datacenters i use hmmm i wounder why
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sorry about the editing posting to fast again forgive my spelling grammer and typos i'm dyslexic.
This router has been like this for 2 days at a time when it has had a problem in the past. So its not load related unless a load spike triggers it.
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Just checked back through my old posts on this problem and it was faulty with the same problem on
03-05-2005 and 16-05-2005 both times for several days
Djofyork
14-06-2005, 23:27
i have had periods of upto 4days with this packet loss in the past after checking my logs
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my logs concure with those dates but i have had others that go as far back as 1 year and 2 months but not noticed. this problem really needs fixing for good and your reasoning is sound on the explaination for it as far as i see
Part of the problem is that most users will probably not notice there is a problem when surfing the web. Itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s fine for me to here. Unless they happen to be going to the EU (wow servers are in Paris) so no reports and no one notices for a while. :(
I just want a phone number of someone who understands what I am saying and not give me the "please reboot your modem ...." speech or worse the we dont support games (come on !!!) one
Djofyork
14-06-2005, 23:39
what do u make to the route change to and from the effected router as i stated before. has the router with ip .41 got the fault and the other is taking on the whole load in affect .61 is overloaded but working fine as this doesnt seem to be the normal route my packets are sent on within my pingplotter logs and is it some sort of backup system (.41 has only 11% packetloss atm when the route changes while i'm at 78% for .61 since the event started around 9:30)
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yeh me too m8 me too its a problem they most sort out if they want to keep there serious customers
i am running a prog called ping plotter (good software) to both addresses 61 is hosed up to 80% at times now where as 41 is fine at the moment. Very strange:Yikes:
Unfortunately for me 61 is the one my game wants to use and unlike web access which I can change to my work proxy (accessed on a different router) there is nothing I can do.
Djofyork
14-06-2005, 23:46
shame we cant choose our own routes :P
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also geting amzing flux in my pings the range is between 5-533 btw lets try looking for contact detail using whois on that resolved ip :P
Tell me about it.
Hope fully somone on here will see this and take pitty :angel:
Djofyork
14-06-2005, 23:51
Registrant:
NTL Internet Ltd
Caradog House
Cleppa Park
Newport, Gwent np10 8ug
UK
Domain Name: NTL.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
NTL Internet Ltd hostmaster@ntl.com
Caradog House
Cleppa Park
Newport, Gwent np10 8ug
UK
+44 (0)1633 710931 fax: +44 (0)1633 710236
Record expires on 29-Apr-2006.
Record created on 28-Apr-1997.
Database last updated on 14-Jun-2005 18:49:22 EDT.
Domain servers in listed order:
DNS1.NTLI.NET 62.253.162.237
DNS2.NTLI.NET 194.168.4.237
;) there's our number
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m8 if i where you look for a anonymous socks5 proxy (need it for UDP) server within the uk and use sockscap (google it if u havnt heard about it) and use that as a tunnel to the wow servers bypassing the effected router. only problem i can see is that most socks5 servers could be worse than that router for latency and overloading.
Will call tomorrow come what may and see what happens. Probable someone in a call centre some ware
Djofyork
14-06-2005, 23:53
best idea is to get on some1 else's backbone at leeds maybe u got a m8 near u that can set up a socks5 server (try ccproxy 1 i use) on a different isp?
Registrant:
m8 if i where you look for a anonymous socks5 proxy (need it for UDP) server within the uk and use sockscap (google it if u havnt heard about it) and use that as a tunnel to the wow servers bypassing the effected router. only problem i can see is that most socks5 servers could be worse than that router for latency and overloading.
Thought of that am looking into it now. Looking for HTTP tunnel software as well so i can go via my work proxy :D
Djofyork
14-06-2005, 23:54
i'll do the same tell me how u get on m8 gn :)
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btw just incase u see fit my msn is iamdjango@hotmail.com if u hear any news that might interest me :)
;) there's our numberDo you seriously think you will get any sort of meaningful response from that number ?
The core routers give ICMP traffic the lowest priority....
do some trace routes and post them back... a few high times in the middle and timeouts are nothing to worry about... if times are bad all the way to the destination then you might have a problem-
post some traces to different destinations so we can have a look at what is going on
The core routers give ICMP traffic the lowest priority....
do some trace routes and post them back... a few high times in the middle and timeouts are nothing to worry about... if times are bad all the way to the destination then you might have a problem-
post some traces to different destinations so we can have a look at what is going on
Not wanting to appear ungrateful for your comments but I have worked in the IT industry for many years a lot of them looking after reasonably large networks so have some idea how they work :)
Yes ICMP packets can be dropped but when you start getting 70+% packet loss to routes using that address it is something else. As has been stated earlier this is an ongoing problem which comes and goes (not related to busy times) and is not experienced by just me. The route to eu.logon.worldofwarcraft.com which was coursing me problems yesterday is now routing VI 80.0.241.33 (some something has changed) which is fine. So I cannot now find a route to something I use which goes via it, but 241.61 is still having massive packet loss if you trace directly to it :( do the same to other router address and all is fine. I understand that systems have faults. What frustrates me is that know one I phone up at NTL knows or seems to care about reporting network infrastructure faults. As stated in my original post all I really want is some ware to report the fault to.
__________________
Some traces to router. Its not happy.
Date/Time: 15/06/2005 08:54:06
1 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms smoothwall [xxxxxxxxxxx]
2 6 ms 8 ms 6 ms 5 ms 8 ms 7 ms 5 ms 8 ms 5 ms 5 ms [xxxxxxxxxxx]
3 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 7 ms leed-t2cam1-b-ge92.inet.ntl.com [80.0.55.1]
4 6 ms 7 ms 6 ms 7 ms 5 ms 7 ms 5 ms 7 ms 5 ms 5 ms leed-t2cam1-a-ge11.inet.ntl.com [80.0.54.253]
5 * * 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 50 ms * * 6 ms 7 ms leed-t2core-a-ge-wan63.inet.ntl.com [80.0.241.61]
Date/Time: 15/06/2005 08:54:44
1 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms smoothwall [xxxxxxxxxxx]
2 6 ms 5 ms 6 ms 5 ms 6 ms 6 ms 5 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms [xxxxxxxxxxx]
3 6 ms 6 ms 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 6 ms 7 ms leed-t2cam1-b-ge92.inet.ntl.com [80.0.55.1]
4 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 5 ms 6 ms 22 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms leed-t2cam1-a-ge11.inet.ntl.com [80.0.54.253]
5 * * * * * 7 ms 6 ms 8 ms * 6 ms leed-t2core-a-ge-wan63.inet.ntl.com [80.0.241.61]
Date/Time: 15/06/2005 08:58:54
1 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms smoothwall [xxxxxxxxxx]
2 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 7 ms 7 ms 6 ms 7 ms 5 ms * [xxxxxxxxx]
3 8 ms 6 ms 6 ms 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms * leed-t2cam1-b-ge92.inet.ntl.com [80.0.55.1]
4 7 ms 8 ms 7 ms 6 ms 7 ms 6 ms 7 ms 7 ms 6 ms * leed-t2cam1-a-ge11.inet.ntl.com [80.0.54.253]
5 * 6 ms * 6 ms * 6 ms * 6 ms 6 ms * leed-t2core-a-ge-wan63.inet.ntl.com [80.0.241.61]
Date/Time: 15/06/2005 09:00:39
1 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms smoothwall [xxxxxxxxx]
2 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms [xxxxxxxxxx]
3 7 ms 5 ms 21 ms 8 ms 5 ms 6 ms 10 ms 5 ms 5 ms 8 ms leed-t2cam1-b-ge92.inet.ntl.com [80.0.55.1]
4 6 ms 6 ms 14 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms leed-t2cam1-a-ge11.inet.ntl.com [80.0.54.253]
5 7 ms * 5 ms * * * * * * * leed-t2core-a-ge-wan63.inet.ntl.com [80.0.241.61]
Date/Time: 15/06/2005 09:02:16
1 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms smoothwall [xxxxxxxxxx]
2 5 ms 5 ms 5 ms 5 ms 7 ms 5 ms 6 ms 5 ms 5 ms 5 ms [xxxxxxxxx]
3 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms 7 ms 9 ms 7 ms 8 ms leed-t2cam1-b-ge92.inet.ntl.com [80.0.55.1]
4 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 5 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms leed-t2cam1-a-ge11.inet.ntl.com [80.0.54.253]
5 * 7 ms * * 7 ms 8 ms * * 7 ms 7 ms leed-t2core-a-ge-wan63.inet.ntl.com [80.0.241.61]
FYI, I have just run a 1000 pings to that router (from Nottingham) and got < 1% loss. There doesn't appear to be much wrong with the router - perhaps a problem with your "route" to the router (i.e. from leed-t2cam1-a-ge11 to leed-t2core-a-ge-wan63).
Thanks for the info.
How local is "leed-t2cam1-a-ge11" ?
I hope "Djofyork" comes back on to see if he is using the same link.
I still have the problem. And dont no who to conntact about the it ?
Anyone ?
I have just been checking from some other systems I run at work and there seems to be no problems with loss to the router from there ether. There is to "leed-t2cam1-a-ge11.inet" though so it is looking likely that it is the link between "leed-t2cam1-a-ge11.inet.ntl.com" and "leed-t2core-a-ge-wan63.inet.ntl.com"
Its well messed up now this is vi "leed-t2cam1-a-ge92.inet.ntl.com [80.0.54.1]" not "leed-t2cam1-a-ge11.inet.ntl.com"
Target Name: eu.logon.worldofwarcraft.com
IP: 80.239.178.115
Date/Time: 15/06/2005 10:27:01
1 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms smoothwall [xxxxxxxxx]
2 5 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms [xxxxxxxxxxx]
3 6 ms 17 ms 6 ms 5 ms 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms leed-t2cam1-a-ge92.inet.ntl.com [80.0.54.1]
4 * * 7 ms * * 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms leed-t2core-a-ge-wan63.inet.ntl.com [80.0.241.61]
5 7 ms 7 ms * 6 ms * * * 6 ms 6 ms lee-bb-a-so-120-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.17]
6 * 7 ms 7 ms 13 ms * * * * 6 ms lee-bb-b-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.187.186]
7 * * * * 12 ms * * * * ren-bb-a-so-000-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.161]
8 * 24 ms 23 ms 25 ms * * * 27 ms 23 ms bre-bb-b-so-200-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.166]
9 27 ms * 23 ms * 23 ms * * 24 ms 23 ms telc-ic-1-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.188.117]
10 * * * * 24 ms * * * 24 ms ldn-b2-geth8-1.telia.net [213.248.75.89]
11 24 ms 23 ms * * 23 ms 24 ms * * * ldn-bb2-pos0-3-0.telia.net [213.248.74.9]
12 32 ms * * * * 30 ms 30 ms * * prs-bb2-pos6-0-0.telia.net [213.248.65.114]
13 31 ms 32 ms 32 ms 30 ms 30 ms 31 ms * * * [213.248.70.14]
14 35 ms 35 ms 32 ms 32 ms * * * 33 ms 31 ms prs-tc-ks51-geth0-1.telia.net [213.248.70.22]
15 * * * * * * * * * [-]
Target Name: eu.logon.worldofwarcraft.com
IP: 80.239.178.115
Date/Time: 15/06/2005 10:34:08
1 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms smoothwall [192.168.1.1]
2 26 ms 9 ms 7 ms 6 ms 5 ms 10 ms 5 ms 5 ms 5 ms 5 ms [10.63.32.1]
3 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 7 ms 6 ms 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms 7 ms leed-t2cam1-a-ge92.inet.ntl.com [80.0.54.1]
4 * 7 ms 7 ms * 9 ms * 6 ms * 8 ms * leed-t2core-a-ge-wan63.inet.ntl.com [80.0.241.61]
5 * 7 ms 8 ms 7 ms 6 ms * * * 6 ms 6 ms lee-bb-a-so-120-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.17]
6 7 ms 7 ms * 7 ms * 6 ms * * 6 ms * lee-bb-b-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.187.186]
7 * 13 ms * * 12 ms 12 ms * 13 ms * * ren-bb-a-so-000-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.161]
8 * 23 ms 23 ms 23 ms * * * 22 ms 24 ms 24 ms bre-bb-b-so-200-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.166]
9 * 24 ms 29 ms * * 24 ms 23 ms 24 ms * * telc-ic-1-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.188.117]
10 * * 24 ms 26 ms * * 30 ms * * 23 ms ldn-b2-geth8-1.telia.net [213.248.75.89]
11 * 25 ms * 25 ms 24 ms * * 24 ms 24 ms * ldn-bb2-pos0-3-0.telia.net [213.248.74.9]
12 31 ms * * * 31 ms 31 ms 31 ms 31 ms * * prs-bb2-pos6-0-0.telia.net [213.248.65.114]
13 * 31 ms * * * 31 ms 31 ms * 30 ms 31 ms [213.248.70.14]
14 39 ms * 32 ms * * * 32 ms * 32 ms * prs-tc-ks51-geth0-1.telia.net [213.248.70.22]
15 * * * * * * * * * * [-]
PM me your public ip address and i'll pass details on to the appropriate peopletonight.
Ignition
15-06-2005, 12:01
PM me your public ip address and i'll pass details on to the appropriate peopletonight.
Wouldn't worry about it, have nudged a couple of people.
Wouldn't worry about it, have nudged a couple of people.
cool ta :)
Thank you both for your time :)
Ignition
15-06-2005, 12:41
Thank you both for your time :)
You're welcome, apologies for the fault, PM me if you require more information.
As of 18:30 when i last checked every think seems to be back to normal.
So thanks to everyone that helped :D
Djofyork
15-06-2005, 19:23
ty for ever1's help the issue is solved but for how long and will it happen again?
i knew the problem was being fixed btw when i rang that number in the whois database around 4 hours ago it does work despite what other might think and from my experience is one of the quickest ways to resolve network issues some times your call will be redirected but you always end up with a tech guy who cares and knows what hes doing!
You have one problem fixed and another takes it`s place :rolleyes: This is a traceroute to bbc.co.uk "tele-ic-2-so-010-0.inet.ntl.com" is haveing a rest :(
Target Name: www.bbc.co.uk (http://www.bbc.co.uk/)
IP: 212.58.224.55
Date/Time: 15/06/2005 19:36:56
1 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms smoothwall [xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
2 7 ms 6 ms 49 ms 6 ms 6 ms 11 ms 34 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms [xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
3 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 6 ms 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 5 ms leed-t2cam1-b-ge92.inet.ntl.com [80.0.55.1]
4 7 ms 12 ms 15 ms 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 8 ms 6 ms 7 ms leed-t2core-b-ge-wan63.inet.ntl.com [80.0.241.189]
5 7 ms 8 ms 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 14 ms 28 ms 16 ms 7 ms 7 ms lee-bb-b-so-120-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.21]
6 7 ms 7 ms 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms 9 ms 19 ms 8 ms lee-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.187.185]
7 14 ms 12 ms 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms 12 ms 13 ms 13 ms pop-bb-b-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.238]
8 14 ms 13 ms 13 ms 14 ms 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms 17 ms 13 ms pop-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.172.78]
9 265 ms * 219 ms 230 ms * 254 ms * * 246 ms 220 ms tele-ic-2-so-010-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.86]
10 39 ms 20 ms 135 ms 15 ms 14 ms 16 ms 14 ms 218 ms 15 ms 15 ms ntl-ge2-8.prt0.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.217]
11 19 ms 20 ms 19 ms 17 ms 17 ms 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms 28 ms 21 ms [212.58.238.153]
12 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms 14 ms 16 ms 13 ms 14 ms 13 ms 13 ms 14 ms www9.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.55]
Target Name: www.bbc.co.uk (http://www.bbc.co.uk/)
IP: 212.58.224.55
Date/Time: 15/06/2005 19:37:43
1 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms smoothwall [xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
2 6 ms 6 ms 7 ms 12 ms 6 ms 7 ms 9 ms 9 ms 7 ms 7 ms [xxxxxxxxxxxx]
3 6 ms 65 ms 6 ms 7 ms 9 ms 6 ms 6 ms 7 ms 6 ms 9 ms leed-t2cam1-b-ge92.inet.ntl.com [80.0.55.1]
4 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 8 ms 123 ms 84 ms 8 ms 7 ms 7 ms leed-t2core-b-ge-wan63.inet.ntl.com [80.0.241.189]
5 8 ms 7 ms 8 ms 7 ms 6 ms 8 ms 7 ms 7 ms 8 ms 8 ms lee-bb-b-so-120-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.21]
6 8 ms 16 ms 8 ms 7 ms 8 ms 8 ms 7 ms 9 ms 7 ms 7 ms lee-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.187.185]
7 12 ms 12 ms 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms 12 ms 12 ms 13 ms 12 ms pop-bb-b-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.238]
8 13 ms 13 ms 49 ms 14 ms 13 ms 14 ms 13 ms 17 ms 14 ms 14 ms pop-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.172.78]
9 255 ms 250 ms * * 246 ms 250 ms * 234 ms 224 ms 255 ms tele-ic-2-so-010-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.86]
10 15 ms 104 ms 15 ms 27 ms 14 ms 82 ms 15 ms 46 ms 14 ms 15 ms ntl-ge2-8.prt0.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.217]
11 18 ms 19 ms 18 ms 19 ms 18 ms 19 ms 19 ms 18 ms 20 ms 19 ms [212.58.238.153]
12 14 ms 13 ms 13 ms 14 ms 14 ms 19 ms 14 ms 14 ms 14 ms 16 ms www9.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.55]
Target Name: www.bbc.co.uk (http://www.bbc.co.uk/)
IP: 212.58.224.55
Date/Time: 15/06/2005 19:38:18
1 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms smoothwall [xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
2 5 ms 9 ms 6 ms 5 ms 6 ms 10 ms 11 ms 5 ms 5 ms 6 ms [xxxxxxxxxx]
3 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 9 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms leed-t2cam1-b-ge92.inet.ntl.com [80.0.55.1]
4 7 ms * 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms 7 ms 5 ms 7 ms leed-t2core-b-ge-wan63.inet.ntl.com [80.0.241.189]
5 8 ms 9 ms 6 ms 8 ms 11 ms 6 ms 15 ms 7 ms 8 ms 7 ms lee-bb-b-so-120-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.21]
6 20 ms 8 ms 15 ms 7 ms 6 ms 12 ms 8 ms 7 ms 44 ms 17 ms lee-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.187.185]
7 14 ms 12 ms 14 ms 12 ms 12 ms 12 ms 12 ms 13 ms 21 ms 12 ms pop-bb-b-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.238]
8 13 ms 13 ms 17 ms 14 ms 11 ms 14 ms 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms 12 ms pop-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.172.78]
9 * * 227 ms * 220 ms 246 ms 235 ms * * * tele-ic-2-so-010-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.86]
10 16 ms 14 ms 14 ms 14 ms 15 ms 12 ms 20 ms 72 ms 36 ms 71 ms ntl-ge2-8.prt0.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.217]
11 19 ms 19 ms 17 ms 22 ms 20 ms 27 ms 19 ms 19 ms 21 ms 20 ms [212.58.238.153]
12 14 ms 14 ms 14 ms 14 ms 14 ms 14 ms 16 ms 14 ms 17 ms 14 ms www9.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.55]
Ignition
15-06-2005, 20:09
Hehehe
The core routers give ICMP traffic the lowest priority....
do some trace routes and post them back... a few high times in the middle and timeouts are nothing to worry about... if times are bad all the way to the destination then you might have a problem-
post some traces to different destinations so we can have a look at what is going on
Not wanting to appear ungrateful for your comments but I have worked in the IT industry for many years a lot of them looking after reasonably large networks so have some idea how they work
Yes ICMP packets can be dropped but when you start getting 70+% packet loss to routes using that address it is something else.
:)
9 * * 227 ms * 220 ms 246 ms 235 ms * * * tele-ic-2-so-010-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.86]
10 16 ms 14 ms 14 ms 14 ms 15 ms 12 ms 20 ms 72 ms 36 ms 71 ms ntl-ge2-8.prt0.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.217]
11 19 ms 19 ms 17 ms 22 ms 20 ms 27 ms 19 ms 19 ms 21 ms 20 ms [212.58.238.153]
12 14 ms 14 ms 14 ms 14 ms 14 ms 14 ms 16 ms 14 ms 17 ms 14 ms www9.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.55]
To be exact tele-ic-x respond to a set amount of ICMP in any one time period. As your own traceroutes show responses from the beeb are quite adequate.
2 gfd-bb-b-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com (213.105.172.6) 0 msec 0 msec 0 msec
3 tele-ic-2-so-110-0.inet.ntl.com (62.253.185.74) 8 msec 0 msec 4 msec
4 ntl-ge2-8.prt0.thdo.bbc.co.uk (212.58.239.217) [AS 2818] 8 msec 4 msec 0 msec
5 212.58.238.153 [AS 2818] 4 msec 0 msec 4 msec
6 www.bbc.net.uk (212.58.224.86) [AS 2818] 0 msec 4 msec 4 msec
Sending 1000, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 212.58.224.86, timeout is 2 seconds:
Success rate is 100 percent (1000/1000), round-trip min/avg/max = 1/2/8 ms
No fault found, sir.
Ignition
15-06-2005, 20:15
FYI, I have just run a 1000 pings to that router (from Nottingham) and got < 1% loss. There doesn't appear to be much wrong with the router - perhaps a problem with your "route" to the router (i.e. from leed-t2cam1-a-ge11 to leed-t2core-a-ge-wan63).
I have just been checking from some other systems I run at work and there seems to be no problems with loss to the router from there ether. There is to "leed-t2cam1-a-ge11.inet" though so it is looking likely that it is the link between "leed-t2cam1-a-ge11.inet.ntl.com" and "leed-t2core-a-ge-wan63.inet.ntl.com"
Yep, fault on outgoing SMF (dirty) from leed-t2cam1-a to leed-t2core-a-ge-wan-63. Cleaned and now about sorted as far as I know!
__________________
ty for ever1's help the issue is solved but for how long and will it happen again?
Solved until the next time I go there and do my party trick involving fibre optics and bodily orifices :)
TouchÃÃâ€*’© :D
Been looking at to many traceroutes lately
sorry to waste your time
Solved until the next time I go there and do my party trick involving fibre optics and bodily orifices :)
Thatâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s a thought I can do without :Yikes:
Ignition
15-06-2005, 21:25
TouchÃÃâ€*’© :D
Been looking at to many traceroutes lately
sorry to waste your time
:D
You're welcome ;) Thank you for not arguing like a madman as people usually do when they notice a -bb- or -ic- not responding much to pings. :D
Raistlin
15-06-2005, 21:44
:D
You're welcome ;) Thank you for not arguing like a madman as people usually do when they notice a -bb- or -ic- not responding much to pings. :D
What are you talking about man? It's obviously a router problem, can't you see the -bb- and the -ic- aren't responding very much to the pings.
:disturbd: <Wibble...>:D
JohnHorb
15-06-2005, 22:49
...and why haven't you applied for the mod position? ;) :notopic: :shrug:
Ignition
15-06-2005, 22:54
...and why haven't you applied for the mod position? ;) :notopic: :shrug:
Are you asking me or Mr Majere John?
If it's me :Sprint: :D
Djofyork
16-06-2005, 22:20
getting really p*ssed now packet loss is back its the leeds router and if your telling me that ntl doesnt over load its system i'm begining to think thats rubish (how is it possible to upgrade your whole netwrok for the massive increase in bw i and others got a while back?). look at this it started again at the same time as the last event although this is the start of a new log as i dont want others to see my vital server ip's its just a game server in germany:
http://www.evolved-hosting.com/images/mail.diotavelli.net.png
btw the packetloss is getting progressivly worse as time goes on.
i want this resolved proply no bull 'i talked to 1 of my tech pals at ntl and they fixed it' and before u say my attitude is bad i am well in my right to have it after being messed around now for months. seems like the dude on the phone was talking crap again what a suprise. i know u guys are help volantary but still if your company ntl cant sort it out proply and u cant what am i supposed to think?
can conferm its back to its old tricks. My WOW game died again 5 min before this post.
what you been doing Ignition :Yikes:
Solved until the next time I go there and do my party trick involving fibre optics and bodily orifices :)
Djofyork
16-06-2005, 22:56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignition
You're welcome, apologies for the fault, PM me if you require more information.
i would like to know and i'm sure others would too what u actually fixed.
if ntl ran datacentres of this quality their clients would leave in an instant. why shouldnt i expect the same quality of service from an even larger company than any of the datacenter i get network services from?
__________________
would also want to know why ICMP packets are dropped at all if the network isnt running at full capacity or overloaded?
some trace routes
Target Name: host-116.wow-europe.com
IP: 80.239.179.116
Date/Time: 17/06/2005 00:31:22
1 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms smoothwall [xxxxxxxxx]
2 6 ms 6 ms 8 ms 6 ms 7 ms 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms [xxxxxxxxxx]
3 7 ms 7 ms 12 ms 7 ms 8 ms 15 ms 7 ms 7 ms 10 ms 13 ms leed-t2cam1-a-ge92.inet.ntl.com [80.0.54.1]
4 6 ms * * * 10 ms 10 ms * 9 ms 6 ms * leed-t2core-a-ge-wan63.inet.ntl.com [80.0.241.61]
5 7 ms * 17 ms * 7 ms 12 ms * 6 ms * 6 ms lee-bb-a-so-120-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.17]
6 * * * * 7 ms 7 ms * 7 ms * 6 ms lee-bb-b-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.187.186]
7 31 ms 32 ms 15 ms 20 ms 12 ms 14 ms 14 ms * * 12 ms ren-bb-a-so-000-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.161]
8 * * * * * * * 25 ms * 24 ms bre-bb-b-so-200-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.166]
9 25 ms * 26 ms * * * * * * 25 ms telc-ic-1-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.188.117]
10 * * 25 ms * 24 ms * 39 ms * 26 ms 27 ms ldn-b2-geth8-1.telia.net [213.248.75.89]
11 25 ms * 24 ms * 27 ms * * 25 ms 25 ms 26 ms ldn-bb2-pos0-3-0.telia.net [213.248.74.9]
12 * 31 ms * 39 ms 31 ms 33 ms 33 ms 36 ms 32 ms * prs-bb2-pos6-0-0.telia.net [213.248.65.114]
13 32 ms 36 ms 32 ms 36 ms 31 ms * 31 ms * * 32 ms [213.248.70.14]
14 31 ms * 37 ms * * * * * 32 ms 34 ms prs-tc-ks51-geth0-2.telia.net [213.248.70.70]
Target Name: host-116.wow-europe.com
IP: 80.239.179.116
Date/Time: 17/06/2005 00:32:17
1 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms smoothwall [xxxxxxxxx]
2 7 ms 13 ms 6 ms 24 ms 7 ms 27 ms 6 ms 7 ms 9 ms 6 ms [xxxxxxxxxxx]
3 6 ms 7 ms 11 ms 12 ms 8 ms 7 ms 21 ms 10 ms 7 ms 13 ms leed-t2cam1-a-ge92.inet.ntl.com [80.0.54.1]
4 * * * * 8 ms * 9 ms 6 ms 7 ms * leed-t2core-a-ge-wan63.inet.ntl.com [80.0.241.61]
5 10 ms 8 ms * 36 ms * 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms * 7 ms lee-bb-a-so-120-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.17]
6 * 7 ms 6 ms * 7 ms * * 7 ms 13 ms * lee-bb-b-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.187.186]
7 * 12 ms * * * 12 ms 12 ms * * * ren-bb-a-so-000-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.161]
8 * 41 ms 23 ms * 25 ms * 23 ms * * 25 ms bre-bb-b-so-200-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.166]
9 * 30 ms * * * * * * * * telc-ic-1-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.188.117]
10 * 24 ms * 24 ms 24 ms * 24 ms 24 ms * * ldn-b2-geth8-1.telia.net [213.248.75.89]
11 25 ms * 24 ms * 24 ms * 27 ms * * * ldn-bb2-pos0-3-0.telia.net [213.248.74.9]
12 32 ms 35 ms 31 ms * 31 ms 30 ms 32 ms 32 ms 34 ms * prs-bb2-pos6-0-0.telia.net [213.248.65.114]
13 * * * 32 ms 35 ms 35 ms * * 36 ms 31 ms [213.248.70.14]
14 32 ms * 31 ms * 32 ms 37 ms 32 ms * * * prs-tc-ks51-geth0-2.telia.net [213.248.70.70]
Target Name: host-116.wow-europe.com
IP: 80.239.179.116
Date/Time: 17/06/2005 00:32:52
1 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms smoothwall [xxxxxxxxxx]
2 8 ms 12 ms 6 ms 7 ms 5 ms 5 ms 15 ms 7 ms 5 ms 11 ms [xxxxxxxxxx]
3 6 ms 6 ms 8 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 7 ms 9 ms leed-t2cam1-a-ge92.inet.ntl.com [80.0.54.1]
4 7 ms * 6 ms * 8 ms 8 ms 6 ms * 10 ms 49 ms leed-t2core-a-ge-wan63.inet.ntl.com [80.0.241.61]
5 * 6 ms * 7 ms 8 ms * 7 ms * 6 ms 9 ms lee-bb-a-so-120-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.17]
6 57 ms * 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 15 ms 7 ms * * 10 ms lee-bb-b-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.187.186]
7 13 ms 12 ms * 14 ms 14 ms 12 ms * * 12 ms * ren-bb-a-so-000-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.161]
8 23 ms * 25 ms 24 ms * * 23 ms * 26 ms * bre-bb-b-so-200-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.166]
9 24 ms 27 ms * 25 ms * 40 ms * * 24 ms * telc-ic-1-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.188.117]
10 * 25 ms 25 ms 27 ms * * * * 25 ms * ldn-b2-geth8-1.telia.net [213.248.75.89]
11 26 ms 25 ms 25 ms 28 ms * * * * 30 ms * ldn-bb2-pos0-3-0.telia.net [213.248.74.9]
12 * * 31 ms * * 45 ms * 31 ms * 30 ms prs-bb2-pos6-0-0.telia.net [213.248.65.114]
13 * * 31 ms * * 32 ms * * 32 ms * [213.248.70.14]
14 31 ms 35 ms 31 ms 31 ms 32 ms 32 ms 31 ms 34 ms 32 ms 32 ms prs-tc-ks51-geth0-2.telia.net [213.248.70.70]
From those traces it looks like the same fault from leed-t2cam1-a to leed-t2core-a-ge-wan-63
What do you get if you run this ;
ping 80.0.241.61 -t -n 50
(I get 0% loss).
From those traces it looks like the same fault from leed-t2cam1-a to leed-t2core-a-ge-wan-63
What do you get if you run this ;
ping 80.0.241.61 -t -n 50
(I get 0% loss).
I get this. Run about 5 mins apart. Looks like the same fault as before to me as well.
Ping statistics for 80.0.241.61:
Packets: Sent = 50, Received = 28, Lost = 22 (44% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 6ms, Maximum = 110ms, Average = 12ms
Ping statistics for 80.0.241.61:
Packets: Sent = 50, Received = 18, Lost = 32 (64% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 6ms, Maximum = 194ms, Average = 20ms
Then it's pretty damn broken.
Then it's pretty damn broken.
Tell me about it. What is strange is the sudden way it starts 10:14 all OK 10:15 bang massive packet loss.
As has been mentioned before this has been happaning for a while, problems for 1-3 days then ok for a while.
wonder what changes ?
Its fine everywhere else that is not vi that router.
Problem has seems to have gone 13 hours this time. Anyone no if anything was done. Will continue to monitor.
Target Name: host-116.wow-europe.com
IP: 80.239.179.116
Date/Time: 17/06/2005 11:42:57
1 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms smoothwall [192.168.1.1]
2 6 ms 10 ms 6 ms 6 ms 10 ms 5 ms 5 ms 6 ms 16 ms 7 ms [10.63.32.1]
3 55 ms 9 ms 6 ms 8 ms 15 ms 7 ms 7 ms 6 ms 7 ms 6 ms leed-t2cam1-a-ge92.inet.ntl.com [80.0.54.1]
4 29 ms 8 ms 6 ms 7 ms 8 ms 7 ms 6 ms 7 ms 8 ms 5 ms leed-t2core-a-ge-wan63.inet.ntl.com [80.0.241.61]
5 7 ms 7 ms 8 ms 7 ms 8 ms 37 ms 8 ms 7 ms 8 ms 7 ms lee-bb-a-so-120-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.17]
6 6 ms 23 ms 8 ms 8 ms 9 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 7 ms lee-bb-b-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.187.186]
7 15 ms 14 ms 25 ms 14 ms 14 ms 12 ms 18 ms 14 ms 13 ms 15 ms ren-bb-a-so-000-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.161]
8 24 ms 23 ms 28 ms 23 ms 25 ms 22 ms 23 ms 23 ms 24 ms 25 ms bre-bb-b-so-200-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.166]
9 36 ms 33 ms 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms 26 ms 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms 25 ms telc-ic-1-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.188.117]
10 27 ms 25 ms 27 ms 27 ms 24 ms 23 ms 26 ms 25 ms 25 ms 24 ms ldn-b2-geth8-1.telia.net [213.248.75.89]
11 61 ms 31 ms 24 ms 29 ms 24 ms 25 ms 26 ms 25 ms 24 ms 38 ms ldn-bb2-pos0-3-0.telia.net [213.248.74.9]
12 31 ms 32 ms 33 ms 30 ms 30 ms 30 ms 30 ms 31 ms 31 ms 32 ms prs-bb2-pos6-0-0.telia.net [213.248.65.114]
13 30 ms 31 ms 31 ms 31 ms 32 ms 31 ms 31 ms 33 ms 32 ms 31 ms [213.248.70.14]
14 31 ms 36 ms 38 ms 31 ms 47 ms 31 ms 33 ms 36 ms 33 ms 31 ms prs-tc-ks51-geth0-2.telia.net [213.248.70.70]
Ignition
22-06-2005, 16:47
On holiday, have been for past week, will deal with these points on return.
I live in Leeds and have been getting very long pauses in online games. I'm nowhere near as Network technical as you lots are but might this explain my problems? I had my line checked by NTL tech. (only have BB), and they report no fault. I had an engineer come out who tightened the wire connections to everything and replaced the Cable modem as the modem was rebooting far too much according to the log, evidently.
I still have the problems though although not as much.
The pauses in game would range from 5 secs to 15-20secs to being kicked from the server. I still get messenger signing out and back in again after 5 secs too.
I'll download the ping plotter program now I have seen this and report back to this thread.
Might it be related? Are these the symptoms of packet loss?
What area of Leeds are you in Salu because I keep getting mine running at 750 instead of the 1 meg
Ignition
23-06-2005, 23:16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignition
You're welcome, apologies for the fault, PM me if you require more information.
i would like to know and i'm sure others would too what u actually fixed.
if ntl ran datacentres of this quality their clients would leave in an instant. why shouldnt i expect the same quality of service from an even larger company than any of the datacenter i get network services from?
__________________
would also want to know why ICMP packets are dropped at all if the network isnt running at full capacity or overloaded?
Right...
Firstly I fixed nothing I just sent some of your traces to the appropriate people.
Second when you can find the part where you are guaranteed a quality of service or given an SLA on your account (like the ones we give the people who pay a grand a month for 2 - 3Mbit) then we'll discuss that point.
Lastly the core network isn't close to overloaded, the links you are talking about in Leeds don't go above 20% utilisation even at peak times. ICMP isn't dealt with for either security reasons (IE why make it easy for someone to just **** the CPU on a router by having it respond to all ICMP) or because the router is busy.. following on from that below....
Research router architecture, then go talk to one of your data centre providers about what happens when a router converges a full BGP route table, then we'll talk more about that one.
__________________
getting really p*ssed now packet loss is back its the leeds router and if your telling me that ntl doesnt over load its system i'm begining to think thats rubish (how is it possible to upgrade your whole netwrok for the massive increase in bw i and others got a while back?). look at this it started again at the same time as the last event although this is the start of a new log as i dont want others to see my vital server ip's its just a game server in germany:
Erm, the core network wasn't upgraded much, most of it was upgrades done locally. The core network, the bit you're complaining about, does and always has had copious amounts of capacity to spare. It's structured and planned so that a full half of the bandwidth could be lost and it still wouldn't max out.
i want this resolved proply no bull 'i talked to 1 of my tech pals at ntl and they fixed it' and before u say my attitude is bad i am well in my right to have it after being messed around now for months. seems like the dude on the phone was talking crap again what a suprise. i know u guys are help volantary but still if your company ntl cant sort it out proply and u cant what am i supposed to think?
Unfortunate you feel that way, though I don't know what you've been messed about with. I rarely talk to my tech pals at ntl by the way, I'm quite happy to talk to my colleagues though if I'm not at work and can't sort things myself.
If you're expecting a business grade service ntl do offer DIA (Direct Internet Access) with guarantees of service quality and availability, along with priority support for about a grand a month at a guess for a 2 or 3Mbit circuit.
homealone
24-06-2005, 00:10
welcome back from your holiday, ig - ;)
- don't reply :dozey:
Right...
Firstly I fixed nothing I just sent some of your traces to the appropriate people.
Second when you can find the part where you are guaranteed a quality of service or given an SLA on your account (like the ones we give the people who pay a grand a month for 2 - 3Mbit) then we'll discuss that point.
Lastly the core network isn't close to overloaded, the links you are talking about in Leeds don't go above 20% utilisation even at peak times. ICMP isn't dealt with for either security reasons (IE why make it easy for someone to just **** the CPU on a router by having it respond to all ICMP) or because the router is busy.. following on from that below....
Research router architecture, then go talk to one of your data centre providers about what happens when a router converges a full BGP route table, then we'll talk more about that one.
__________________
Erm, the core network wasn't upgraded much, most of it was upgrades done locally. The core network, the bit you're complaining about, does and always has had copious amounts of capacity to spare. It's structured and planned so that a full half of the bandwidth could be lost and it still wouldn't max out.
Unfortunate you feel that way, though I don't know what you've been messed about with. I rarely talk to my tech pals at ntl by the way, I'm quite happy to talk to my colleagues though if I'm not at work and can't sort things myself.
If you're expecting a business grade service ntl do offer DIA (Direct Internet Access) with guarantees of service quality and availability, along with priority support for about a grand a month at a guess for a 2 or 3Mbit circuit.
Nice to see you back. And very nice reply there :tu:
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