View Full Version : Pro or Anti NTL? The Truth
dialanothernumb
26-09-2003, 00:01
On the basis that head-on confrontation can often be a good way to address a niggling problem. I thought I'd start a simple thread.
(Mods, this is tongue in cheek so please give it a moment or two in the sun.)
Tell this thread, this site, no, the whole world that you are pro-ntl, anti-ntl or "something else" in which case let us know where you stand.
dialanothernumb
26-09-2003, 00:08
I love NTL, but I love to complain. So I'm abit anti the pros, but I'm not so pro the antis. Difficult...
Ah yes, this is a service I can write about, follow on Gigabytes of webpages thru hundreds of thousands of posts, which is no more or less significant (in real life) than a daily pinta [/perspective mode]
Funny thing is, I just cancelled 512k BB, TV and Phone because NTL set up phantom direct debits worth £465 out of my bank account and didn't apologise, offer any compensation, or even act surprised, but I still think I'll be worse off having left them...
im netural NTL have provided me with an excellent broadband service almost faultless for a few years now.........
there other services need to improve as well as there CS tech support general communication within the various franchises
handyman
26-09-2003, 00:22
Voted pro, because thats what i am take it or leave it, i was a ATV customer for 3 years and it was great also had the dial-up then and also good.
Now have DTV, 1meg and phone and have had no troubles.
BTW I no longer work for them now, I work for freeserve broadband tech support as of monday :)
mark
I'm definitely something else. I judge them on merit, which for me works out ok. Pro or anti sounds dogmatic and therefore ridiculous to me.
Frankly, I don't understand this whole pro/anti thing.
Edit: Mind you. I will be getting Sky if I don't get a choice of matches come Euro2004, but I think I'm not the only one...
Originally posted by handyman
Voted pro, because thats what i am take it or leave it, i was a ATV customer for 3 years and it was great also had the dial-up then and also good.
Now have DTV, 1meg and phone and have had no troubles.
your choice...........
Originally posted by handyman
BTW I no longer work for them now, I work for freeserve broadband tech support as of monday :)
mark
good luck in your new job not that you will need it :)
Undisputedtruth
26-09-2003, 01:07
I have no problems with people who are happy with their NTL services. Some people are happy with second best - I understand that. For me personally, I want the best things around - second best is not for me. I expect high standards and I make sure I get it.
Where I draw the line is when the pro NTL mobs attacks other customers for expressing anti NTL feelings. They would bunch up on them, make personal remarks about them and demand threads to be closed down where pro NTL mobs has lost control.
homealone
26-09-2003, 01:18
:rofl: I voted "somewhere else"
homealone
26-09-2003, 01:38
Originally posted by kronas
your choice...........
good luck in your new job not that you will need it :)
underneath it you are a nice bloke kronas:)
and good news for handy too :wavey:
dialanothernumb
26-09-2003, 01:43
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
I have no problems with people who are happy with their NTL services. Some people are happy with second best - I understand that. For me personally, I want the best things around - second best is not for me. I expect high standards and I make sure I get it.
Where I draw the line is when the pro NTL mobs attacks other customers for expressing anti NTL feelings. They would bunch up on them, make personal remarks about them and demand threads to be closed down where pro NTL mobs has lost control.
I think someone feels a bit understood here. Poor wee you. You need a cuddle or a stiff gin. When one of those horrible pro NTL mobsters come along, let me and the others know and we'll beat 'em off with a well reasoned and rational poke in the eye.
Poor poor fella:(
Originally posted by homealone
underneath it you are a nice bloke kronas:)
underneath what ?
what you see is what you get with me :)
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
I have no problems with people who are happy with their NTL services. Some people are happy with second best - I understand that. For me personally, I want the best things around - second best is not for me. I expect high standards and I make sure I get it.
for quality of service they are NO 1 in terms of broadband uptime etc
homealone
26-09-2003, 02:02
Originally posted by kronas
underneath what ?
what you see is what you get with me :)
for quality of service they are NO 1 in terms of broadband uptime etc
you are the man :homie:
Chrysalis
26-09-2003, 07:50
voted pro, because although I have had to change my dns servers and have less than 100% email reliability speeds are excellent and thats my main reason for my 1mbit net, also the tv is a nice bonus.
I'm neither pro or anti. I am very happy with the extensive services provided in my region :) but I am aware that other people have not had the same experience as other people. That is the key to understanding. Awareness of other peoples experiences.
I've been with cable since Nynex and had a good service and enjoyed it. Then NTL come along and the service levels dropped and price rise after price rise came. I dropped the TV and Phone and if things get any worse the BB will end up going
timewarrior2001
26-09-2003, 09:38
I used to be anti NTL, then I realised I had little reason to be.
Then I went a tad pro NTL and once again realised I may be mistaken.
Right now I am happy wiht my service, TV aint perfect but it'll do. Telephone service is perfect never had a single problem in approx 4-5 years. BB is 99% perfect.
Oh yeah and my fiance is about to start work at NTL Teesside.
**off topic**
Could any NTL employees PM me and tell me exactly what NTL are like to work for?
rippedoff
26-09-2003, 15:09
Stupid bloody poll if you ask me! I am neither for nor against ntl:
I pay them for a service - I expect to get what I pay for - If I don't... I'll complain... If I do, I am happy.
Difficult concept eh?
:drool:
rippedoff
26-09-2003, 15:11
Originally posted by dialanothernumb
I think someone feels a bit understood here. Poor wee you. You need a cuddle or a stiff gin. When one of those horrible pro NTL mobsters come along, let me and the others know and we'll beat 'em off with a well reasoned and rational poke in the eye.
Poor poor fella:(
Just have a look at the BB in London threads...... lots of pro ntl mob there!:wavey:
Originally posted by timewarrior2001
Oh yeah and my fiance is about to start work at NTL Teesside.
**off topic**
Could any NTL employees PM me and tell me exactly what NTL are like to work for?
Oh, boy, you did it now ... that's your name in the little black book and no mistake. I hope you voted 'pro-ntl' because as far as some folk are concerned, that's what you'll be for the rest of your life now ... ;)
I voted 'somewhere else'. NTL is a company, not a political party or some horrible ideological pressure group so I'd find it hard to be either pro- or anti-. I get DTV, phone and 600k BB from them. The phone always works, the BB works about 98% of the time and the TV breaks down very rarely indeed, although the so-called interactive is worse than useless. When it works, I'm happy to say so; when it doesn't I say so. But I don't let one set-back colour my entire perception.
I have to add that I have learned more about computers than I ever thought I would thanks to NTL's reputation. That reputation led to nthw.com and now .co.uk and I know just about all I know about how the internet works by taking part in these forums.
So, cheers, NTL ... may you muck it up forevermore... :D
Alan Waddington
26-09-2003, 16:52
I voted Pro.
My phone service has been faultless, TV nearly so (I did get an errored STB, but it recovered after reboot) & broadband has been mostly good, apart from issues with the news servers. Having said that the mail servers appear to be the new cinderella service & appear to need some cash spent on them. Still, on balance there's more good than bad.
Alan
Undisputedtruth
26-09-2003, 19:50
Originally posted by rippedoff
Just have a look at the BB in London threads...... lots of pro ntl mob there!:wavey:
I would have to agree here. There were many of them, who had no interest in London broadband whatsoever. Many of them had already admitted they did not live in London.
So why were they there? To cause as much disruptions as possible. As soon as us Londoners fought back - the mods closed the threads making us look bad, even though we were victims. One of them even racially abused RO.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
I would have to agree here. There were many of them, who had no interest in London broadband whatsoever. Many of them had already admitted they did not live in London.
So why were they there? To cause as much disruptions as possible. As soon as us Londoners fought back - the mods closed the threads making us look bad, even though we were victims. One of them even racially abused RO.
Problems I have with the above post:
'admitted'
'disruptions' (aside from the fact that it should be 'disruption')
'fought back'
'victims'
'racially abused'
Are we talking about a civil war or are we talking about a hit-and-miss supplier of communications services? You badly need to get some sense of proportion.
Macready
27-09-2003, 02:08
I came to NTL as a customer and was NTL Pro for a while, but now even though I remain a customer I consider myself Anti NTL.
In short I absolutely despise having to ring up NTL for anything, that phone queue system that drives you mad repeating every 15 seconds that your call is important to us isnt bad enough. Its the fact that out of about the 60+ calls ive made to NTL in my time as a customer, only about 10 of them have been actually helpful / led to a resolution.
Thats largely where NTL fails for me.
That and the fact that its expensive for its Telephone and Television services.
dialanothernumb
27-09-2003, 10:48
Originally posted by rippedoff
Stupid bloody poll if you ask me! I am neither for nor against ntl:
I pay them for a service - I expect to get what I pay for - If I don't... I'll complain... If I do, I am happy.
Difficult concept eh?
:drool:
In that case you got the point of the poll.. That is pretty much most people's view, judging by the number who are neither pro or anti.
It rather makes the phrases pro- and anti-ntl petty and irrelevant. I'm glad you agree, even after the considerable tribulations you went through with NTL.
Dial
Undisputedtruth
27-09-2003, 17:40
Originally posted by dialanothernumb
In that case you got the point of the poll.. That is pretty much most people's view, judging by the number who are neither pro or anti.
It rather makes the phrases pro- and anti-ntl petty and irrelevant. I'm glad you agree, even after the considerable tribulations you went through with NTL.
Dial
I have not voted. I'm not quite sure how you would interpret that as.
Macready
27-09-2003, 18:39
Basically I sum up the NTL call waiting system as this, and this is honestly from my experiences, im in the south wales area,
Got a problem ? Wait minimum 30 minutes, only about 3 times has the phone been answered within that.
Ringing up to pay ? Wait ? your answered within 30 seconds.
Thats from my personal experience with NTL
Originally posted by Macready
Basically I sum up the NTL call waiting system as this, and this is honestly from my experiences, im in the south wales area,
Got a problem ? Wait minimum 30 minutes, only about 3 times has the phone been answered within that.
Ringing up to pay ? Wait ? your answered within 30 seconds.
Thats from my personal experience with NTL
This has been my experience, although my impression is it has improved in the last year or so. When I first got ntl you could get comfortable with a book and sit the phone on loudspeaker next to you for over an hour waiting for someone to answer. These days it's a lot better ... still too long IMO, but better.
Nah, I'm not voting on this silly topic.
Pro NTL: tend to be starry eyed persons who appear to be obsessed with what they imagine to be defending NTL no matter what. Whereas the company is quite able to defend itself as it has its own paid staff to do this, but of course, these persons are so inept they can't dip into sites like this to even explain NTL non activity let alone inform their customers on developments.
Anti NTL: usually applied by Pro NTL morons and applies to anyone who has a complaint, these tend to be ordinary customers or ex-customers who have genuine grievances and who are labelled thus being anti NTL!
We are customers using telephony services only now since cancelling digital tv services: Feeview now supplies our digital tv requirements and BBCi supplies us with a satisfactory basic interactive tv service without a monthly subscription, which NTL was too incompetent to provide for a monthly subscription.
:spin:
Originally posted by Gogogo
Nah, I'm not voting on this silly topic.
Pro NTL: tend to be starry eyed persons who appear to be obsessed with what they imagine to be defending NTL no matter what. Whereas the company is quite able to defend itself as it has its own paid staff to do this, but of course, these persons are so inept they can't dip into sites like this to even explain NTL non activity let alone inform their customers on developments.
Anti NTL: usually applied by Pro NTL morons and applies to anyone who has a complaint, these tend to be ordinary customers or ex-customers who have genuine grievances and who are labelled thus being anti NTL!
We are customers using telephony services only now since cancelling digital tv services: Feeview now supplies our digital tv requirements and BBCi supplies us with a satisfactory basic interactive tv service without a monthly subscription, which NTL was too incompetent to provide for a monthly subscription.
:spin:
So you're anti-NTL then? :D
Is this silly thread still going??:rolleyes:
I voted PRO(!)
I've never really had any problems with NTL (they fixed my lost BB connection (within 45 minutes on the phone!!))
They installed and then charged me at a cheaper rate for longer than I signed up for.
Telephone service is OK now I get line rental for £5
My MAJOR gripes are:
the CAP - I often download linux software and the 1gb is just not enough!
newsservers - See previous point - files are just not there long enough to download 999mb per day
mail system - constant outages
but it beats my old dialup via freeserve!!!
Originally posted by towny
So you're anti-NTL then? :D
That might be the view of Pro NTL morons but it's not so, I'm only concerned that NTL is governed by a poor executive management.
:spin:
carlingman
28-09-2003, 02:35
Well as I consider this topic to be unjustified I voted somewhere else.
The use of "pro" and "anti" only gives rise to lame people who cannot form their own unbiest opinions and gives them a perfect opportunity to tar people with the slogan "pro" or "anti".
My own opinion is I have a fair idea how this "pro" and "anti" NTL began and to me it needs to stop right now, especially as many have commented it is having an affect on the site.
If you think the divide is affecting the site as I do then why not report it as I have although it never got me nowhere not even a response.
To me it is nothing short of name calling and to me this has to stop.
I personally hate this "anti" and "pro" NTL group labelling and agree that as long as discussion is kept to within the site Terms Of Service, it should be permitted to continue and without the need to start name calling.
This site contains people from many walks of life and ages and there is no doubt going to be disagreements etc. but we all should be adult enough to allow people to take part in the discussion, and god forbid if they are happy with their NTL services then why resort to calling them "pro" NTL.
On the other side of the coin why choose to go straight for the "anti" NTL option if their grievance is justified as this does allow the thread to flow, be patient and let the people have their opinion.
Surely if they are just slating and getting personal and ranting then surely the Mods will step in.
Creating a divide between "pro" and "anti" will only incite people and cause a problem to the site and the thread.
I dont want to come here and see constant arguments between people and constant intervention by Mods with threads being closed and members being banned etc.
All this is about to me surely is healthy discussion without the need for "pro" or "anti" NTL labelling or personal insults being hurled back and forth.
We are all members here but not all are customers, employees etc a mixture of both maybe or even ex employees like myself or maybe even none of the above but it would be nice for everyone to get on and participate in a reasonable level of discussion.
I cannot see why there is a need to create a "pro" or "anti" NTL divide and continue with this name calling.
Thanks for listening.
:)
Originally posted by carlingman
Well as I consider this topic to be unjustified I voted somewhere else.
The use of "pro" and "anti" only gives rise to lame people who cannot form their own unbiest opinions and gives them a perfect opportunity to tar people with the slogan "pro" or "anti".
My own opinion is I have a fair idea how this "pro" and "anti" NTL began and to me it needs to stop right now, especially as many have commented it is having an affect on the site.
If you think the divide is affecting the site as I do then why not report it as I have although it never got me nowhere not even a response.
To me it is nothing short of name calling and to me this has to stop.
I personally hate this "anti" and "pro" NTL group labelling and agree that as long as discussion is kept to within the site Terms Of Service, it should be permitted to continue and without the need to start name calling.
This site contains people from many walks of life and ages and there is no doubt going to be disagreements etc. but we all should be adult enough to allow people to take part in the discussion, and god forbid if they are happy with their NTL services then why resort to calling them "pro" NTL.
On the other side of the coin why choose to go straight for the "anti" NTL option if their grievance is justified as this does allow the thread to flow, be patient and let the people have their opinion.
Surely if they are just slating and getting personal and ranting then surely the Mods will step in.
Creating a divide between "pro" and "anti" will only incite people and cause a problem to the site and the thread.
I dont want to come here and see constant arguments between people and constant intervention by Mods with threads being closed and members being banned etc.
All this is about to me surely is healthy discussion without the need for "pro" or "anti" NTL labelling or personal insults being hurled back and forth.
We are all members here but not all are customers, employees etc a mixture of both maybe or even ex employees like myself or maybe even none of the above but it would be nice for everyone to get on and participate in a reasonable level of discussion.
I cannot see why there is a need to create a "pro" or "anti" NTL divide and continue with this name calling.
Thanks for listening.
:)
HEAR,HEAR!
Incog who has not even voted because I hate to give this pro,anti thing any encouragement what so ever.I was hoping that this thread would be CLOSED.:mad:
Originally posted by Incognitas
HEAR,HEAR!
Incog who has not even voted because I hate to give this pro,anti thing any encouragement what so ever.I was hoping that this thread would be CLOSED.:mad:
I wrote in post #28 "Nah, I'm not voting on this silly topic."
Your appeal for closure represents much of what is wrong on the nthw.com site: CJ shuts threads when he doesn't like what's being said. Me, I m in favour of free speech and against the Stalinist style of running sites.
Let people say what they wish and let them get it off their chests! If it makes them feel better.
:spin:
th'engineer
28-09-2003, 11:03
I voted Pro.
Undisputedtruth
28-09-2003, 11:07
Originally posted by Incognitas
HEAR,HEAR!
Incog who has not even voted because I hate to give this pro,anti thing any encouragement what so ever.I was hoping that this thread would be CLOSED.:mad:
As I said earlier.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Where I draw the line is when the pro NTL mobs attacks other customers for expressing anti NTL feelings. They would bunch up on them, make personal remarks about them and demand threads to be closed down where pro NTL mobs has lost control.
th'engineer
28-09-2003, 11:26
UDT, do not know what you are on about in respect of pro or anti remember i am pro ntl
Undisputedtruth
28-09-2003, 12:07
Originally posted by th'engineer
UDT, do not know what you are on about in respect of pro or anti remember i am pro ntl
Just to reinterate what I've said earlier on in the thread. I have no problems with customers praising NTL for genuine good service.
I coined 'the proNTL mob' phrase beacause I recognised there are some hardliners (mostly employees of NTL) out there that would attack people expressing antiNTL feeling, demand threads to be closed when the thread goes against them.
'Engineer' I wouldn't class you as part of the proNTL mob.
th'engineer
28-09-2003, 16:21
the interesting thing is that some people that work for the company could actually be the anti NTL mob.
Not listening and not acting on customer feedback, therefore not doing the company any good .
I want NTL to grow and be profitable to do this stakeholders comments should be welcomed and changes implemented
the interesting thing is that some people that work for the company could actually be the anti NTL mob.
Not listening and not acting on customer feedback, therefore not doing the company any good .
I want NTL to grow and be profitable to do this stakeholders comments should be welcomed and changes implemented
That's correct about some people working for ntl being anti-ntl, or would it be better to say they are people with their eyes open who will not defend ntl's actions.
I know many ntl employees who these days would not lift a finger to do an ounce of extra work than they have to, many of these people were commited to the job until they became treated so badly. Now they go to work for the money and can't wait to get back home and doing as little as possible in the process. These people however don't post about ntl because the last thing they want to do is waste their own time thinking about ntl and depressing themselves even further.
I think the amount of so called "pro-ntl" employees are a very small number, the ones that gang up as UDT claim are the minority and dont make much of a dent in the dwindling 13000 or so employees at ntl these days.
I just dont take much notice myself because I know they are outnumbered by at least 10-1 by employees who think the company is s**t and have no loyalty because of the rough treatment they have been receiving.
dialanothernumb
01-10-2003, 20:58
HEAR,HEAR!
Incog who has not even voted because I hate to give this pro,anti thing any encouragement what so ever.I was hoping that this thread would be CLOSED.:mad:
I have now realised that the disadvantage of long threads is that people (perfectly understandably) tend to react to the most recent posts and not look at the first post.
Those who say it's a silly wee thread are right...........
The post I made in starting this thread was trying to hint at the shallowness of labelling oneself (or even worse, other people) as pro- or anti-ntl.
The truth is we're all INTERESTED in ntl, because they provide (or are supposed to provide) various telecom services, and sometimes these go wrong or change. Some are here as they have expertise, some are here as they have a fixable problem and some are here because they want to change an aspect of how ntl provide (CS, TS, networks, BB in London etc.)
The idea of setting up the thread was to demonstrate how many people for whom the labels pro and anti are inappropriate and to let those who have a major grievance or loyalty declare themselves.
As the thread starter, I guess I can suggest to the mods the thread be closed, but:
For those who didn't like the question being asked, but still posted to express an opinion... thanks, that's what discussion is about.
For those who declared their position, whether pro- or anti and explained why, well done.. respect.
Would a kind mod please close this thread? thanks
I am obviously not pro-ntl, then on the other hand I am not anti-ntl!
I guess most would label me as anti-ntl because I have a go at ntl, but I worked for ntl and received some rough treatment along with many others who are still working for the company and being treated even worse now.
My main issues with ntl are not customer related but with poor management, useless people getting on in the company and the big niggle of non-technical people ie: CS types now taking control of all the technical issue at regional level and ex-CS people being given technical management positions and making a hash of it in the process!
I think most ntl employees who visit this site would probably not even know about the issues that I am talking about because the majority of ntl posters appear to be from CS or other desk jobs, the only technical/network ones that I can think of are from national teams and not local ones.
Very often the national peoples views and apparent happyness are very different from the guys at a local level.
I still have some friends in ntl and the volunteers they had for the recent redundancies in one department says it all really. :)
Undisputedtruth
02-10-2003, 09:58
I think everyone has recognised there is a proNTL mobs camp. It is reassuring to hear that many people are not willing to take sides or be involved in such squabbles. It is also important to note, not to label the customers who are outspoken as antiNTL. They are a voice of reason and many of the things they have been saying are still true today. I also think it is apparent to everyone that the proNTL mobs goes around attacking everyone who speaks out against NTL and the very same people are not happy in the use of proNTL language as this exposes their activities. Luckily, the proNTL mobs are few in numbers and I appeal to the mods to watch their behaviour. I am also willing to supply names for a watch list.
I think everyone has recognised there is a proNTL mobs camp. It is reassuring to hear that many people are not willing to take sides or be involved in such squabbles. It is also important to note, not to label the customers who are outspoken as antiNTL. They are a voice of reason and many of the things they have been saying are still true today. I also think it is apparent to everyone that the proNTL mobs goes around attacking everyone who speaks out against NTL and the very same people are not happy in the use of proNTL language as this exposes their activities. Luckily, the proNTL mobs are few in numbers and I appeal to the mods to watch their behaviour. I am also willing to supply names for a watch list.
Am I on that list then ??
Luckily, the proNTL mobs are few in numbers and I appeal to the mods to watch their behaviour. I am also willing to supply names for a watch list.
Your thoughtfulness is overwhelming.....
rather than spy on each other, how about we all just get along?
handyman
02-10-2003, 10:09
I think everyone has recognised there is a proNTL mobs camp. It is reassuring to hear that many people are not willing to take sides or be involved in such squabbles. It is also important to note, not to label the customers who are outspoken as antiNTL. They are a voice of reason and many of the things they have been saying are still true today. I also think it is apparent to everyone that the proNTL mobs goes around attacking everyone who speaks out against NTL and the very same people are not happy in the use of proNTL language as this exposes their activities. Luckily, the proNTL mobs are few in numbers and I appeal to the mods to watch their behaviour. I am also willing to supply names for a watch list.
OOooOO can I be on the list too :)
Your thoughtfulness is overwhelming.....
rather than spy on each other, how about we all just get along?
:wavey: :rofl: Totally agree, well said that man.
OOooOO can I be on the list too :)
Back off Handyman I asked first :rofl:
Back off Handyman I asked first :rofl:
But I want to be in the little black book too :LOL:
handyman
02-10-2003, 10:21
:rolleyes: I dont wany to go in his black book, i r not that type o fella :)
Unless of course udt is a bird, then yeah. ;)
I think everyone has recognised there is a proNTL mobs camp. It is reassuring to hear that many people are not willing to take sides or be involved in such squabbles. It is also important to note, not to label the customers who are outspoken as antiNTL. They are a voice of reason and many of the things they have been saying are still true today. I also think it is apparent to everyone that the proNTL mobs goes around attacking everyone who speaks out against NTL and the very same people are not happy in the use of proNTL language as this exposes their activities. Luckily, the proNTL mobs are few in numbers and I appeal to the mods to watch their behaviour. I am also willing to supply names for a watch list.
I knew there was a little black book there somewhere! Wonder if I'm in it?
And what of this proNTL mob camp? Where is it, and can we sing songs round the fire?
handyman
02-10-2003, 10:27
I knew there was a little black book there somewhere! Wonder if I'm in it?
And what of this proNTL mob camp? Where is it, and can we sing songs round the fire?
GING GANG gooly golly golly watcha ging gin go ging gang goo............
I woudl think that udt thinks the camp is in timbucktoo with candy tents and candy floss clouds, non of us are in the real world :rolleyes:
homealone
02-10-2003, 10:34
<snip>I also think it is apparent to everyone that the proNTL mobs goes around attacking everyone who speaks out against NTL and the very same people are not happy in the use of proNTL language as this exposes their activities.<snip>
anyone have any idea what that means? Good job there aren't many of these people, they sound really confused;):)
dialanothernumb
02-10-2003, 10:53
(Mods, this is tongue in cheek so please give it a moment or two in the sun.)
Mods, since we're down to only a couple of people who don't understand what I was getting at, and the thread has run it's course, can some one close it? The poll's closed anyway. :)
If anyone does feel this violates their right to discuss this, I think they are, as members, perfectly within their rights to start another thread on their particular subject.
That black book'll be a bestseller. :drool:
timewarrior2001
02-10-2003, 11:35
I think everyone has recognised there is a proNTL mobs camp. It is reassuring to hear that many people are not willing to take sides or be involved in such squabbles. It is also important to note, not to label the customers who are outspoken as antiNTL. They are a voice of reason and many of the things they have been saying are still true today. I also think it is apparent to everyone that the proNTL mobs goes around attacking everyone who speaks out against NTL and the very same people are not happy in the use of proNTL language as this exposes their activities. Luckily, the proNTL mobs are few in numbers and I appeal to the mods to watch their behaviour. I am also willing to supply names for a watch list.
And then theres the anti NTL mob that would include people like yourself, people that will make wild accusations (see beginning of this thread) will label people as Pro NTL if they do not support your beliefs about the company. Poeple that will do what they can to bring NTL down, irrespective of the effect on others, the people that have little choice but to be with NTL.
Someone that is trying to get an inbalanced forum by drumming out the Pro NTL mob because you personally cannot tolerate them.
I respect you for your views, I abore your tactics. We need a balance, this is not an ANTI NTL site, this is an NTL related discussion site. You cant discuss on a one sided point of view.
Labels are a dangerous thing, unfotunately these days everyhting must carry a label. I regard myself as neither pro nor Anti NTL. Then again I will readily admit that most of my decisions and complaints are for me personally and if they dont benefit me I have very little to say. But thats honesty for you.
To all those sitting on the fence........watch out for the burglar grease :D
well I am the same as others in this thread if NTL give me the service, I am a happy bunny but if they don't, then I am not. as I think most people are, we just want what we pay for nothing more nothing less. There is nothing more frustrating than a service which isn't working properly. And this pro or anti is just silly talk. :argue:
well I am the same as others in this thread if NTL give me the service, I am a happy bunny but if they don't, then I am not. as I think most people are, we just want what we pay for nothing more nothing less. There is nothing more frustrating than a service which isn't working properly. And this pro or anti is just silly talk. :argue:
Very true, which is why I think this particular thread was set off with its tongue firmly in its cheek. The use of 'pro' and 'anti' in other threads has no such excuse however ... :)
Undisputedtruth
02-10-2003, 19:16
Your thoughtfulness is overwhelming.....
rather than spy on each other, how about we all just get along?
As you are an employee of NTL I can only assume this could be the reason why you're reluctant to take up by offer of listing the proNTL mobs. Perhaps, someone more neutral might be more helpful.
As you are an employee of NTL I can only assume this could be the reason why you're reluctant to take up by offer of listing the proNTL mobs. Perhaps, someone more neutral might be more helpful.
UDT, you should just publish the contents of your little black book in this thread. We're all dying to know who's made the 'watch list'. ;)
I personally have no problem with any customer who thinks their ntl service is the best thing since sliced bread, I am sure there are many that do.
I also have no problem with people who think their job with ntl is the best that they have ever had, Perhaps they know no different or they are lucky.
We must remember that many customers think ntl service is the worst, and many employees who think ntl is a bad company to work for. The latter continued to prove itself in the company surveys that got so embarassing that they were stopped.
I have had a big issue in the past with a very small number of employees who have rubbished true facts and the people reporting them that put ntl in a bad light, I also hate it when someone lies through their back teeth to defend the company. I have seen this where information is just not true, if I was being in a kind mood I would say it was just incompetence or lack of correct information on the persons part but somehow I dont think this is allways the case!
Life is made up of many different types of people and sometimes it's easier to laugh at some of the BS that's been posted than arguing with someone to get the truth across. :)
handyman
02-10-2003, 19:28
I sure have :) (made it on to the list I mean)
And I don't even work for ntl anymore, lol.
[off-topic]
Just a little heads up on freeserve the largest isp.
About half the calls I get are straight disconections, no nonsence pls sir I just want to leave.
Its all mad we never got that volume of calls into ntl for disconections, freeserves churn rate must be through the roof.
At least ntl provide a connection at 88kbs faster speed with a reliable modem that allows you to ethernet it to your computer, and its £3 cheaper per month.
cant really argue freeserve against ntl at all.
As you are an employee of NTL I can only assume this could be the reason why you're reluctant to take up by offer of listing the proNTL mobs. Perhaps, someone more neutral might be more helpful.
:rolleyes: by all means, list away old boy - i could do with a laugh :)
you go around compiling 'lists' of people, and then wonder why they Download Failed (1) you? how about tryingto live and let live?
I sure have :) (made it on to the list I mean)
And I don't even work for ntl anymore, lol.
Awwwwwww, how come you know, did I make it ??
handyman
02-10-2003, 20:17
I know because I am pro ntl :erm:
I have to be pro ntl as i dont agree with udt :)
Undisputedtruth
02-10-2003, 21:14
:rolleyes: by all means, list away old boy - i could do with a laugh :)
you go around compiling 'lists' of people, and then wonder why they Download Failed (1) you? how about tryingto live and let live?
Mark, your sarcasms have been noted. It was not too long ago that we clashed and I accused you of lying. Considering you are donning the mod tag, I suggest to you to end the sarcastic comments otherwise you just end up demeaning yourself and your fellow mods.
I know because I am pro ntl :erm:
I have to be pro ntl as i dont agree with udt :)
I generally disagree with UDT but not 100% of the time. What does this make me?
quasi-proNTL?
the diet coke of proNTL?
And am I in the book?
Undisputedtruth
02-10-2003, 21:18
I personally have no problem with any customer who thinks their ntl service is the best thing since sliced bread, I am sure there are many that do.
I also have no problem with people who think their job with ntl is the best that they have ever had, Perhaps they know no different or they are lucky.
We must remember that many customers think ntl service is the worst, and many employees who think ntl is a bad company to work for. The latter continued to prove itself in the company surveys that got so embarassing that they were stopped.
I have had a big issue in the past with a very small number of employees who have rubbished true facts and the people reporting them that put ntl in a bad light, I also hate it when someone lies through their back teeth to defend the company. I have seen this where information is just not true, if I was being in a kind mood I would say it was just incompetence or lack of correct information on the persons part but somehow I dont think this is allways the case!
Life is made up of many different types of people and sometimes it's easier to laugh at some of the BS that's been posted than arguing with someone to get the truth across. :)
I've every sympathy for you. As someone as highly respected as yourself, I find it disgraceful in the way you have been treated by a mnority of people.
I love this thread, please keep it open, I need cheering up ;)
homealone
02-10-2003, 21:49
I've every sympathy for you. As someone as highly respected as yourself, I find it disgraceful in the way you have been treated by a mnority of people.
I agree with you.
While I don't always agree with Escapee, I do think it sounds like he was a loss to the company. This kind of thing goes on too much, at work, the people who can do the job are outvoted by the ones who sell the service. - telling them the product won't do what they are selling doesn't go down too well.:shrug:
handyman
03-10-2003, 00:09
Mark, your sarcasms have been noted. It was not too long ago that we clashed and I accused you of lying. Considering you are donning the mod tag, I suggest to you to end the sarcastic comments otherwise you just end up demeaning yourself and your fellow mods.
udt your constant winging has been noted.
you suggest he ends his sarcastic comments, rofl. who nt hell are you to tell the mod of a site you frequent what to do. Mark was offered the mod job as he is a respected poster. I bet when you turn on your pc it trys to through itself out of the window,
All we hear is :blah: How about you do this somwhere else please and leave the rest of the thousand or so memebers that are capable of getting along to it so we can get along with our daily business.
get a dog? talk to plants? get a life, get laid but just do something bluddy different for a change.
And put me in whatever list you like matey at the end of the day I could not care 2 hoots.
with luv
hm
I agree with you.
While I don't always agree with Escapee, I do think it sounds like he was a loss to the company. This kind of thing goes on too much, at work, the people who can do the job are outvoted by the ones who sell the service. - telling them the product won't do what they are selling doesn't go down too well.:shrug:
I am no different really to many that were pushed or walked in that respect!
None of us were any great loss to the company though, because the people making most of these decisions dont understand what they are dealing with.
I was no more or less a loss to the company than many others, but I am probably just a bit more vocal about the shambles that some parts of the company are in.
Yes I totally agree with your last bit, telling jumped up highly paid people who profess to be intelligent that their ideas will not work because of XYZ etc never wins any friends or get you up the ladder in a company.
You have to tell the king that his new clothes are wonderfull for that. :rolleyes:
What I would really like to see is a big surge in the telecoms industry again and ntl investing in new products, services and building in new areas, only then when they move from the ticking over mode into going forward will all the mistakes and wrong people in wrong jobs become apparent.
Me Pro or Anti? I am probably just Anti-Bulls**t ntl managers. :blah:
dialanothernumb
03-10-2003, 09:30
I've every sympathy for you. As someone as highly respected as yourself, I find it disgraceful in the way you have been treated by a mnority of people.
You are speaking "As someone as highly respected as" Escapee. Escapee is a respected member of this community, for sure.
But you, UDT,... :eeek: Now can I be in that book?
Undisputedtruth
03-10-2003, 11:50
udt your constant winging has been noted.
you suggest he ends his sarcastic comments, rofl. who nt hell are you to tell the mod of a site you frequent what to do. Mark was offered the mod job as he is a respected poster. I bet when you turn on your pc it trys to through itself out of the window,
All we hear is :blah: How about you do this somwhere else please and leave the rest of the thousand or so memebers that are capable of getting along to it so we can get along with our daily business.
get a dog? talk to plants? get a life, get laid but just do something bluddy different for a change.
And put me in whatever list you like matey at the end of the day I could not care 2 hoots.
with luv
hm
As you are an employee of NTL, I can well understand your anguish and frustrations about customers having a negative view of your company and employees. You should not direct your anguish and frustrations at your customers but at your colleagues and management for failure in providing a decent service we all want.
As for having a life - I do. You may also wish to note I have posted less than you. So what does that say about you?
As you are an employee of NTL, I can well understand your anguish and frustrations about customers having a negative view of your company and employees
I thought you waxed lyrical a little while ago about how you were no longer an ntl customer?
Undisputedtruth
03-10-2003, 12:36
I thought you waxed lyrical a little while ago about how you were no longer an ntl customer?
That ole nonsense, Mark, suggesting on matters I never said. I've already explained my position to you sometime ago when I accused you of lying. Which part you don't understand? Take your lying, deceiving ways with you or are you just looking for another argument? It seems NTL employees are ganging up on me again.
That ole nonsense, Mark, suggesting on matters I never said.
hmmm....how about
I get excellent customer service from BT
as found here
http://forum.nthellworld.co.uk/showthread.php?p=58815#post58815
i was looking for the post where you said you had taken up another provider - but to be honest, i gave up - after 50 odd posts, and not one positive thing to say about anything i was getting depressed, so i gave up looking for it :zzz:
handyman
03-10-2003, 13:12
It seems NTL employees are ganging up on me again.
I work for freeserve matey, have not been at ntl for a month. Get your facts right please, and as for the life thing, since I am capable of dicussing more than one subject I am able to post in more threads :)
Undisputedtruth
03-10-2003, 13:24
hmmm....how about
as found here
http://forum.nthellworld.co.uk/showthread.php?p=58815#post58815
i was looking for the post where you said you had taken up another provider - but to be honest, i have up - after 50 odds posts, and not one positive thing to say about anything i was getting depressed, so i gave up looking for it :zzz:
Mark, you're questions are out of topic. I've made it clear in earlier posts of what services I have with NTL. The fact you keep bringing this matter up suggests you are looking for another argument. The only other person that kept asking this question was Craig J and look what happened to him. I suggest you read my posts carefully and you should get the answer you are looking for. I've already told you once about what services I have and I'm not going to keep repeating it again for the sake of few NTL employees. Is that clear?
Furthermore, I did say from an earlier post that I was never going to answer anymore questions on what service I have with NTL. So Mark are you going keep asking off topic questions? If you I shall repeat your question with an "off topic answer" in future. This is solely done to prevent proNTL mobs and employees of NTL arguing with me.
I am very sorry you feel depressed but hey, what about the poor customers putting up with poor customer services? Now that's what I call depressing!
timewarrior2001
06-10-2003, 11:37
Ok thats it, I've had enough, got a few things to say.
UDT, you do not and will not ever speak on my behalf or regard myself as having any kind of similar views to yourself. I will not be used named nor un-named in any kind of imaginary statistic you may or may not pull out of thin air.
(glad I got that one cleared up, I dont wish to be included or linked in any kind of sympathy to anything you say).
I said before I admired your views, since you just started abusing a mod of this site and stating in public that you think they are lying to you, I have lost all sense of admiration and currently feel nothing but utter contempt towards you.
Now thats said, I wish and will ask that you either leave this thread to run its course and post "On topic" and without abusing any member or mod. Or that you leave this thread and start acting in what I consider to be an adult manner.
Many thanks
Timewarrior 2001
Please can we get this thread back on topic now?
Undisputedtruth
06-10-2003, 11:50
Ok thats it, I've had enough, got a few things to say.
UDT, you do not and will not ever speak on my behalf or regard myself as having any kind of similar views to yourself. I will not be used named nor un-named in any kind of imaginary statistic you may or may not pull out of thin air.
(glad I got that one cleared up, I dont wish to be included or linked in any kind of sympathy to anything you say).
I said before I admired your views, since you just started abusing a mod of this site and stating in public that you think they are lying to you, I have lost all sense of admiration and currently feel nothing but utter contempt towards you.
Now thats said, I wish and will ask that you either leave this thread to run its course and post "On topic" and without abusing any member or mod. Or that you leave this thread and start acting in what I consider to be an adult manner.
Many thanks
Timewarrior 2001
Please can we get this thread back on topic now?
I'm sorry you feel that way. Perhaps, you have not considered the mod's sarcastic comments. Perhap's you have not considered his out of topic questions towards me. Yes, there is history between a particular mod and I over the last few months which I don't think you have considered. I would of thought it would be more sensible for the mod to stay out of my way instead of baiting me for an argument. Many of the wuestions this mod was asking were out of topic and this matter could easily been dealt with using the PM. The mods here have told us to keep on topic and perhaps this particular mod should of set an example.
Other than that, I certainly not looking for respect from anyone. Nor will I lose sleep over upset employees. You're entitled to your views as just as I am.
dialanothernumb
15-10-2003, 23:44
I certainly not looking for respect from anyone.
How consistent you are, UDT
You're entitled to your views as just as I am.
Doesn't stop you branding people as "proNTL" "Liars" and other derogatory descriptions over the last year or so.
Ridiculous again, UDT... respect
I think it's time we dropped the arguments between the pro-anti thing because there are so few on either side these days. ( a lot were wrongly labelled anyway)
I think a lot of the anti's have dissapeared due to bannings from .com and the general treatment they received, and many of the pro's dissapeared when they found the beloved company that they stood up for either s**t on them some way or just simply made them redundant.
Both sides are now very small and I guess the treatment that ntl has allways dished out to employees will mean a few new uninformed employees will take time to find out the companies true feelings for employees. The anti's have diminished in numbers as the company has shed the jobs of the very people who defended them, so lets try and get on.
I see no point in the anti's ganging up on the smaller number of pro's that are left for revenge, the few abusive company employees that caused most arguments and insults against anything said that was anti-ntl have left or changed their opinion of ntl IMO :cool:
PS: Just read between the lines and see just how unreasonable the most pro or anti's can be, I dont have to mantion any names and I am "NOT" pointing the finger but it has made me get angry on occassions when certain employees have lied/twisted to make the company look good, and these people are usually CSR's or in other low paid positions in the company, that makes it all the more hard to understand. If they were well paid managers arguing to keep themselves in a job I would appreciate it a bit more.
Is it worth the anti's getting so worked up about something that is not going to change, and is it worth the pro's getting worked up about a company that is not paying a lot and will kick you out without any hesitation no matter how much effort you put in?
Macready
16-10-2003, 08:03
the only thing I will say is I genuinely find it funny though that some of the pro ntl people that defended it so much, now dont speak in that manner after Craig J and his suspension.
Never fails to amuse seeing the change in peoples views like that.
I think it's time we dropped the arguments between the pro-anti thing because there are so few on either side these days. ( a lot were wrongly labelled anyway)
No the anti's are still here and always will be at least while NTL is still around lol
No the anti's are still here and always will be at least while NTL is still around lol
I don't see the point in labelling people. We have all joined this forum for our own reasons. Most seen to be happy, but we have different levels of 'happy'. From my perspective, it's costly, but the service itself is fine, no real reason to gripe. It's unlikely they will drop prices, so we'll have to lump it.
Other people have real grievances and NTL should sort it. It doesn't take much to go from Pro to Anti, and with some attention not much to go from Anti to Pro.
$lagging each other off won't get us anywhere, and will be a source of amusement to NTL :(. If we work together to get things sorted it will be more harmonious around here, and will build a real 'community'.
I'm not stupid enough to believe that there won't be differences of opinion on many things, but beating up the NTL staff who are trying to help us, will not actually achieve anything.
For the record: I do NOT work for NTL, I just don't want to see this site turn into a free for all.
Richard M
16-10-2003, 09:10
I agree, this site often gets labelled as extremely anti-NTL at some times which we're not - we just have the freedom to criticize without censorship.
We do need to change a bit, we need to start helping users with NTL problems more rather than just having arguments with each other.
In .com's best days, a user would post a technical problem (for example) and would get a response within 10 minutes.
It was awesome for problem solving. :)
I agree, this site often gets labelled as extremely anti-NTL at some times which we're not - we just have the freedom to criticize without censorship.
I don't see this as an 'ANTI' site, but appreciate the Freedom of speech.
We do need to change a bit, we need to start helping users with NTL problems more rather than just having arguments with each other.
I couldn't agree more, maybe we can identify users who are experienced in certain areas and ask if they are willing to be named in a 'IF YOU WANT HELP - talk to these ppl' thread. Or even come up with common solutions to known issues ?
In .com's best days, a user would post a technical problem (for example) and would get a response within 10 minutes.
It was awesome for problem solving. :)
Then lets try and make this one even better. One of the main reasons people still use .Com, is the problem resolution. Times are changing as weve all seen over the last couple of weeks, so maybe we need to be more 'Customer' and 'problem' focused.
We need to promote the expertise of the users we have, whilst encouraging NTL CLT to use the site without fear of abuse. That way we will provide everything that .Com did, but better.
Now that Frank has resigned, can we use his expertise ?
Richard M
16-10-2003, 09:27
We need to promote the expertise of the users we have, whilst encouraging NTL CLT to use the site without fear of abuse. That way we will provide everything that .Com did, but better.
Yep, I want to see the CLT members posting on here but I'd prefer if they used their old usernames because a) they are more familiar to me and other long term users of .com and b) it would be a lot more safe in case of NTL watching us (which they do, one of our members has already had trouble over posting here).
Quite a few have registered, but few of them post regularly.
Now that Frank has resigned, can we use his expertise ?
That's entirely up to him, I'd like him to though.
<snip>Now that Frank has resigned, can we use his expertise ?
Would that be as a forum admin / editor or salesman ?? :rolleyes:
orangebird
16-10-2003, 12:59
Would that be as a forum admin / editor or salesman ?? :rolleyes:
I was wondering that too... :erm:
dialanothernumb
17-10-2003, 23:02
I was wondering that too... :erm:
Titter!
handyman
18-10-2003, 04:19
I was wondering that too... :erm:
giggle :)
If Frank was to offer his services as a mod on here, I'd find it very hard to vote against him :)
If Frank was to offer his services as a mod on here, I'd find it very hard to vote against him :)
I'd second that.Frank always has struck me as a level headed gentleman who always manages to be fair (and polite) when forced to moderate.He will only moderate when it's strictly necessary.
Incog. :)
etccarmageddon
18-10-2003, 17:33
as this forum is inspired by Frank it would be the only respectful thing to do.
orangebird
18-10-2003, 22:06
as this forum is inspired by Frank it would be the only respectful thing to do.
I've met Frank on a few occasions. I wouldn't say I 'know' him, but from the little time I've spent in his company, I liked him. He's an incredibly intelligent young man who has an awful lot to offer to the right employer....all he can really do is take his (incredibly shoddy) experience at ntl and move onward and upward. But please......
Would you all give it a rest??? You all make it sound as though Frank's popped his clogs.. :erm:
homealone
18-10-2003, 23:18
I've met Frank on a few occasions. I wouldn't say I 'know' him, but from the little time I've spent in his company, I liked him. He's an incredibly intelligent young man who has an awful lot to offer to the right employer....all he can really do is take his (incredibly shoddy) experience at ntl and move onward and upward. But please......
Would you all give it a rest??? You all make it sound as though Frank's popped his clogs.. :erm:
explosive dutch footwear, aside, I agree:)
etccarmageddon
20-10-2003, 08:44
I've met Frank on a few occasions. I wouldn't say I 'know' him, but from the little time I've spent in his company, I liked him. He's an incredibly intelligent young man who has an awful lot to offer to the right employer....all he can really do is take his (incredibly shoddy) experience at ntl and move onward and upward. But please......
Would you all give it a rest??? You all make it sound as though Frank's popped his clogs.. :erm:
I've just checked his profile - didnt realise he was sooo young! I thought he was around 40! Good luck Frank, you've got your whole career ahead of you.
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