View Full Version : Troubled NTL plans $1bn rights issue
See story in The Independent:
http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/story.jsp?story=444150
I can remember one named that Craig J. denying NTL was in debt after the rstructuring exercise.
Hopefully, the possible NTL - Telewest deal will be doomed.
:eek:
O I hope they go down. I so much want another companie running things :)
Originally posted by Defiant
O I hope they go down. I so much want another companie running things :)
Why? The only comms company in this country big enough to take over NTL would be BT.
Do you think the service from them & Sky would be better? In all likelyhood they would do what Sky did when they took over BSB in the early 90s. Shut the company down and expect the users to move to their own service.
Of course, one of the foreign telecomms companies could take over but they all seem to have their own problems..
Short answer YES anything better than NTL. The service is crap and their price's are no longer competitive. Oh and worldwide BT are minnows ;) What is it with you and voice companie's too. Theirs plenty of Voice and Data companies out their that can manage networks :)
Originally posted by Defiant
Short answer YES anything better than NTL. The service is crap and their price's are no longer competitive.
MY guess would be the 15,000 new BB customers a month would disagree with that:)
Originally posted by Defiant
Short answer YES anything better than NTL. The service is crap and their price's are no longer competitive
find me a 1mbit service with 99% uptime for £34.99 a month includes speeds at 99% availability no extra charges with good response times for any queries or a fault i had with my webspace which i had after i renamed it, it took them 2 days (phoned thursday they rang me saturday) to see if it was working at my end
if anyone else can provide a better service then that then damn! :D
Originally posted by kronas
find me a 1mbit service with 99% uptime for £34.99 a month includes speeds at 99% availability no extra charges with good response times for any queries or a fault i had with my webspace which i had after i renamed it, it took them 2 days (phoned thursday they rang me saturday) to see if it was working at my end
if anyone else can provide a better service then that then damn! :D
See the majority of people see NTL in this way, so a few upset users that decided to join a "hate" site, is not a true reflection of a customer base:)
Note : hey Kronas I'm impressed, a full post off you, no mention of Avril, naked chicks or you didn't upset any religious sects;) :p
Originally posted by imback
Note : hey Kronas I'm impressed, a full post off you, no mention of Avril, naked chicks or you didn't upset any religious sects;) :p
dont start i am serious about certain agendas :)
ps your not coming to the meet ?
dont get me wrong there are some right idiots in NTL thank.....f*** for that i didnt speak to,too many of them ;) :p
Originally posted by kronas
dont start i am serious about certain agendas :)
ps your not coming to the meet ?
dont get me wrong there are some right idiots in NTL thank.....f*** for that i didnt speak to,too many of them ;) :p
Yeah I am pretty serious about naked chicks too, I respect you for that man;)
Meet? I seen the heading for the thread, seen how many posts were in it and so couldn't be botherd to read it, yes I am that lazy.
Idiots in NTL? I agree, trouble is most were normal people before they had to say "RIGHT click on My Computer" 100 times a day:D :p
All my old collegues from ntl still say the company are in financial difficulty, because there is absolutely no money to carry out projects and upgrades.
I was rubbished for this remark before and it proved to be true.
The people dealing with the network will generally agree that urgent work is not being carried out because of the financial situation, but unfortunately the CS, Tech support and other office type positions usually disagree with this claim. I guess they can only pass comment on what they are being told via their chain of command.
NTL management are a bunch of pratts incapable of running a company. Don't get excited about the proposed Telewest merger because frankly NTL will once again borrow money to pay for it.
There will be no money for development or improving the existing network. You can guarantee the big wigs on NTL & Telewest will reward themselves handsomely for pulling off the merger whilst the customers will face higher prices to pay for any loans.
Some of you are under the illusion that everything is fine in NTL's garden but as the hemorrhage of customers continues, as many in Greater London will learn NTL has no intention of introducing BB etc so more customers will leave. The narrowing of the customer base will lead to higher prices.
Oh and by the way this is not a so called hate site that Craig J type response is based on ignorance.
For a long time I was one of NTL's loyal customers spending well over £100 a month and still am whilst using the telephone service. I am tired of lame excuses for the failure to provide BB in this area and inability of NTL managers to reply to correspondence
:eek:
Originally posted by Defiant
Short answer YES anything better than NTL. The service is crap and their price's are no longer competitive. Oh and worldwide BT are minnows ;) What is it with you and voice companie's too. Theirs plenty of Voice and Data companies out their that can manage networks :)
I would be surprised, bearing in mind the state of the current comms market, whether any company would be interested in buying a network that needs as much upgrading as the NTL one seems to in parts.
True, there are plenty of Voice and Data companies. I just don't think that many would have the capital required to upgrade the network to a reasonable level.
In short, I am saying that the grass isn't necessarily greener on the other side (as the old saying goes), and if another company takes over, it won't necessarily be better.
orangebird
18-09-2003, 09:36
Originally posted by Gogogo
NTL management are a bunch of pratts incapable of running a company. Don't get excited about the proposed Telewest merger because frankly NTL will once again borrow money to pay for it.
<snip>
Why do ntl need money for a merger?
They're not intending to buy Telewest - there's a big difference. At the end of the day, Huff have major interests in both companies - a merger would make financial sense to both companies.
Originally posted by orangebird
Why do ntl need money for a merger?
- a merger would make financial sense to both companies.
http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/story.jsp?story=444150
"Cable woes: Cable group needs to improve working capital ahead of expected merger with Telewest."
"a merger would make financial sense to both companies" What evidence do you have it would make as you say "financial sense"?
orangebird
18-09-2003, 10:45
Originally posted by Gogogo
http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/story.jsp?story=444150
"Cable woes: Cable group needs to improve working capital ahead of expected merger with Telewest."
"a merger would make financial sense to both companies" What evidence do you have it would make as you say "financial sense"?
Reduction of staff (a major cost cutter, with extra money going towards upgrades/new build etc). Greater buying power. (In the future) access to both networks would expand services available to customers of both companies = more revenue. The ratio of assets to debts would be smaller - therefore improving credit rating and share price. I could go on... :)
Originally posted by orangebird
Reduction of staff (a major cost cutter, with extra money going towards upgrades/new build etc). Greater buying power. (In the future) access to both networks would expand services available to customers of both companies = more revenue. The ratio of assets to debts would be smaller - therefore improving credit rating and share price. I could go on... :)
1. "Reduction of staff": Yes, that will please Telewest staff, savings, yes some of which can be directed into pockets of big wigs.
2. "with extra money going towards upgrades/new build etc". Who are you trying to kid? We are constantly informed that NTL has no money for development etc. This statement of yours is fiction.
3. "Greater buying power". For a new company jet no doubt!
4. "access to both networks would expand services available to customers of both companies" . I am informed the Telewest equipment is totally different. Of course there is NTL's track record such as its failure to cope with some exCWC and exVideotron networks.
5. "more revenue". No need to be excited about this remember customers come and go.
6. "The ratio of assets to debts would be smaller - therefore improving credit rating and share price". Debts are Debts.
7. "I could go on". Well so far not convinicing do go on and on and on.
Telewest seem able to tell their customers which areas are being upgraded marvellous something the pratt management at NTL cannot do.
No, merger of NTL & Telewest not in the customers nor public interest.
Time for work
:spin:
Originally posted by Gogogo
Oh and by the way this is not a so called hate site that Craig J type response is based on ignorance.
I think you will find it was me not Craig J that said that, so explain then what is ntlHELLworld.co.uk if not a site set up to complain about NTL?
orangebird
18-09-2003, 11:17
Originally posted by Gogogo
1. "Reduction of staff": Yes, that will please Telewest staff, savings, yes some of which can be directed into pockets of big wigs.
It could also be ntl staff that go - it happened with the cwc buyout.
2. "with extra money going towards upgrades/new build etc". Who are you trying to kid? We are constantly informed that NTL has no money for development etc. This statement of yours is fiction.
I never said it was fact but to say it's fiction is unfair- it's possible.
3. "Greater buying power". For a new company jet no doubt!p
ntl have already exercised how the two companies can achieve very good reductions in costs as far as purchasing equipment for residential installs as a team.
4. "access to both networks would expand services available to customers of both companies" . I am informed the Telewest equipment is totally different. Of course there is NTL's track record such as its failure to cope with some exCWC and exVideotron networks.
There's no need for the equipment/networks to be compatible if they're owned by the same company....but the revenue from customers in both franchise areas would still go to the same pot.
5. "more revenue". No need to be excited about this remember customers come and go.
Very true - but as far as quarterly figures (for ntl at least) show, they are more customers coming than going :)
6. "The ratio of assets to debts would be smaller - therefore improving credit rating and share price". Debts are Debts.
Your point is? My statement is true (and indeed had a point to it)....
7. "I could go on". Well so far not convinicing do go on and on and on.
Telewest seem able to tell their customers which areas are being upgraded marvellous something the pratt management at NTL cannot do.
No, merger of NTL & Telewest not in the customers nor public interest.
Time for work
:spin:
What's the point in going on? I have listed what you asked - you poo-poo'd it all (as you are entitled to, as it's your opinion) - but what I have listed is feasible and achievable - whether you believe it or not is your perogative :)
Their were companie's interested last time. Why is it people on here seem to think only NTL can do this. Well I say do what they couldn't organise a **** up in a brewery their utter useless crettins. I wish a companie like Microsoft would come along and buy it. Invest and expand. Only pocket money to a companie like that and its been said before Bill Gates doesn't like Murdock :)
orangebird
18-09-2003, 12:12
Originally posted by Defiant
Their were companie's interested last time. Why is it people on here seem to think only NTL can do this. Well I say do what they couldn't organise a **** up in a brewery their utter useless crettins. I wish a companie like Microsoft would come along and buy it. Invest and expand. Only pocket money to a companie like that and its been said before Bill Gates doesn't like Murdock :)
But it's not about a take over or buyout is it? It's a merger on the cards, so it doesn't matter who else in interested, and it's not about what ntl can or can't do - it's about whether the people in the boardroom of both companies want to merge or not.
Microsoft already bought stakes in both Telewest and NTL.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_686000/686985.stm
http://www.fool.com/EveningNews/1999/EveningNews990125.htm
They then sold their stake in Telewest, absorbing a 23% loss on investment: http://media.guardian.co.uk/city/story/0,7497,965607,00.html
In that article, it also states that Microsoft has written off about £4.25 bn in it's cable investments. Hardly pocket money, even for Bill G.
It might also explain why Microsoft don't seem to be in a hurry to buy cable companies.
Anyway, it is true, there were companies interested last time. The market was more healthy. NTL was worth something like 30 times what it is now, and similar problems have been experienced by other comms companies. That also means that banks are less likely to loan money to IT companies at the moment.
Originally posted by scastle
In that article, it also states that Microsoft has written off about £4.25 bn in it's cable investments. Hardly pocket money, even for Bill G.
Yea your right hardly pocket money for Bill.
Hmm now what was that companie that tried buying that second rate games companie (Nintendo) oh thats right Microsoft. They offered $27 billion
Originally posted by Defiant
I wish a companie like Microsoft would come along and buy it. Invest and expand.
I can see it now...
This set top box has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down
:spin: :eek: :D
Originally posted by Defiant
Yea your right hardly pocket money for Bill.
Hmm now what was that companie that tried buying that second rate games companie (Nintendo) oh thats right Microsoft. They offered $27 billion
Yeah, he TRIED to buy it, with a view to profiting. The £4 bn (note pounds, not dollars) was written off which means Microsoft had given up trying to get it back.
Now, last time I checked (and it was a while ago), Microsoft was worth about $70 bn, which, at today's exchange rate is about £43bn ($1 = £0.61).
So, that £4 bn they have written off is about a tenth of their total value. Would you invest money in an industry where you had already lost a tenth of what you are worth? I doubt it.
The difference with buying Nintendo would be that they would be buying a competitor in a market where they are already making money. Not like the cable business, where they lost money.
Anyway, have Microsoft tried to buy NTL recently? No. Looks like they are concerned about throwing good money after bad.
Originally posted by towny
I can see it now...
This set top box has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down
:spin: :eek: :D
And that's without all the potential security problems...
:rofl:
HAHA This is gr8 really shows who are the NTLer's out their. Haha very sad
Originally posted by Defiant
HAHA This is gr8 really shows who are the NTLer's out their. Haha very sad
Wot?
scastle gave a very sound summary of why he thinks M$ is unlikely to get involved, I cracked a joke at Bill Gate$ expense. You don't have to find our comments either interesting or funny if you don't want to, but how does either make us out as 'NTLers'? Have you been taking paranoia lessons from UDT?
Originally posted by Defiant
HAHA This is gr8 really shows who are the NTLer's out their. Haha very sad
Not really. I don't actually care who runs the NTL network as long as I get the Digtal TV, phone & Broadband service I pay for.
I was just trying to point out that if NTL did fold, whoever takes over may be no better than NTL.
I was also pointing out that with the comms market in the state it is in, NTL may well not get a buyer..
Microsoft are already in the TV market so and time will tell what happens next but hopefully NTL go down.
ps you really believe that :rolleyes:
I was just trying to point out that if NTL did fold, whoever takes over may be no better than NTL.
orangebird
18-09-2003, 14:41
Why are you all talking about who's best to buy ntl when they aren't even for sale? :confused:
I think it's all just part of a debate around NTL's financial status and likely future, in the wider context of the rights issue speculation.
Originally posted by Defiant
Microsoft are already in the TV market so and time will tell what happens next but hopefully NTL go down.
Yeah but they have already started pulling out of the uk cable tv market.
PS, it is irrelavent wether I believe anyone else would be better than NTL. Partly because, as Orangebird has said, they are not for sale, and partly because it is a fact of life. Anyone else may be worse, or they may be better.
Their not for sale no and I doubt their will be a hostile takeover bid but I do think their going to collapse. Their customer base is falling. They have nothing to offer now apart from BB. Their price's are not competitive. They dont seem to realise how to get those customers back with things like better pricing and better choice. TV without phoneline. All little things but they add up and attract customers
orangebird
18-09-2003, 15:18
Originally posted by Defiant
Their not for sale no and I doubt their will be a hostile takeover bid but I do think their going to collapse. Their customer base is falling. They have nothing to offer now apart from BB. Their price's are not competitive. They dont seem to realise how to get those customers back with things like better pricing and better choice. TV without phoneline. All little things but they add up and attract customers
You consider an increase of 30000 customers to be 'falling apart'??
Originally posted by orangebird
You consider an increase of 30000 customers to be 'falling apart'??
OB, save your breath, there are some who won't believe the facts no matter what. At the mo Defiant and UDT seem to be playing the same tune.:rolleyes:
orangebird
18-09-2003, 15:30
Originally posted by Nemesis
OB, save your breath, there are some who won't believe the facts no matter what. At the mo Defiant and UDT seem to be playing the same tune.:rolleyes:
Wise words my friend. :wavey:
Originally posted by Defiant
NTL EMPLOYEE ALERT
Where where did I miss them ?????
Originally posted by Defiant
NTL EMPLOYEE ALERT
meaning what, exactly?
orangebird
18-09-2003, 15:50
whu are you refering to Cole - nemesis or me?
Originally posted by Defiant
NTL EMPLOYEE ALERT
eh? :confused:
Meaning the same thing used to happen allot on the .com site were the _____ wouldn't hear a bad thing said about their place of work/sleep
orangebird
18-09-2003, 15:52
Originally posted by Defiant
Meaning the same thing used to happen allot on the .com site were the _____ wouldn't hear a bad thing said about their place of work/sleep
who? me? nemesis?
Originally posted by Defiant
Meaning the same thing used to happen allot on the .com site were the _____ wouldn't hear a bad thing said about their place of work/sleep
Ohhhh I see, were back to the conspiracy theories ....
come on GROW UP, what is this are you and UDT best buddies or something.
This is severely :notopic: again
Defiant and UDT, the thread hijackers and disrupters. This is really begining to Pi$$ me off.
NTL employees that use sites as their intranet **** me off. Try doing some work for a change
Originally posted by Defiant
NTL employees that use sites as their intranet **** me off. Try doing some work for a change
Oh so it's me that works for NTL, well shucks you got me ...
... boring and most severley WRONG !!
Originally posted by Defiant
NTL employees that use sites as their intranet **** me off. Try doing some work for a change
As someone who manages a corporate intranet for a living, I can assure you that nthw.co.uk looks nothing like an intranet, and no-one here is acting in any way that would suggest they think it is.
This has become another topic that needs merging with the Conspiracy Theories thread.:rolleyes:
Defiant please can you calm down abit, everyone is entitled to post, ntl employee or not. Cheers.
Originally posted by Defiant
NTL employees that use sites as their intranet **** me off. Try doing some work for a change
Ahh, so anyone that doesn't agree with you that NTL is crap, and about to collapse is an NTL employee.
Well, I got news for you buddy. I don't, never have and never will work for NTL.
Now that we have established that everyone can post can we get this thread back on track... before the plot gets lost. :)
Originally posted by scastle
Ahh, so anyone that doesn't agree with you that NTL is crap, and about to collapse is an NTL employee.
Well, I got news for you buddy. I don't, never have and never will work for NTL.
Well I got news for you I dont care. I know the ones that do through the .com site so shove that back up the dark passage
Imhere. "so a few upset users that decided to join a "hate" site, is not a true reflection of a customer base." to quote your words.
Check your English dictionary hate is not complain! And why should there not be a forum for praise or complaints, do you mean a company should ignore complaints! So what are you? Are you Matty he of ntl community? Are you a big wig for NTL? Even if you were you demonstrate in your remarks how totally unsuitable you were for a senior post. We are customers spending over £100 a month on NTL services as we did with CWC before.
Agreed not many customers involved in nthellworld.co.uk and its not "ntlhellworld" but then that's also true of nthellworld.com . If you enlighten yourself with my past postings on .com and .co.uk you will see I have generally been satisfied with NTL services what has annoyed me is: 1. The total failure of NTL to supply BB etc. in this area 2. The total failure of NTL to inform customers in this area of this, despite constantly displaying coming soon information on TV screens via interactive button on remote control etc, and local sales staff visiting local shopping malls,who on request for such information dream up dates for BB development. CS staff who also promise coming soon etc etc.
Ntl needs to get its house in order, needs to have a mission and learn something of customer service best practice from other companies.
Orangebird, you are living in a dreamworld but that's your right.
Note: Churn rate annualised 12.9% from NTl Media Centre.
Again, I repeat the proposed NTL -Telewest merger is not in the customers nor in the public interest, hopefully, the monopolies commission will consider this case when the time comes and it's a real pity we didn't object when CWCons services were bought by NTL.
orangebird
18-09-2003, 16:28
Originally posted by Gogogo
<SNIP>
Orangebird, you are living in a dreamworld but that's your right.
<SNIP>
Quantify that? :rolleyes:
Yes, you're annoyed that you can't get bb.
Yes you're annoyed over the poor comms around this situation. This is completely reasonable.
However, it's a bit of a poor show that you dismiss everything else that I have posted, purely because of you disappointment with one aspect of ntl :shrug:
As for the churn rate you quoted - how about quoting the previous churn rate (which was higher, so things are improving, if a little slowly...) and stating the fact that the churn rate ntl publishes also includes involutary churn (those that ntl disconnect through unpaid monies). I have not been rude or uncivil in my postings on this thread, and have backed up (or at least shown reason) for everything I've stated - how about you do the same?
Originally posted by Gogogo
Imhere. "so a few upset users that decided to join a "hate" site, is not a true reflection of a customer base." to quote your words.
Man I think yo got it all wrong I'm not any of the peole you think I am, I am not a big wig in NTL or aint pretending to be. All I was trying to point out is that this board can't be taken as a true reflection of NTL customers since most members first used the site due to some kind of bad service.
This site is what is genrally recognised as a hate site, I' not saying that is a bad thing, I like the site and use it myself a lot, it's just what it's genrally know as on the interent.
So I was making a point and you were attacking me and suggesting I thought customers views weren't important for some reason. So think efore you start accusing me of things please:)
Originally posted by Defiant
Well I got news for you I dont care. I know the ones that do through the .com site so shove that back up the dark passage
I was just setting you straight. No need to be abusive.
Originally posted by imback
.. So think efore you start accusing me of things please:)..
1. OK Imhere, point made, sorry I'll clean my specs.
2. Orangebird, I have already replied to your points some of which to me appeared rather dreamy and vague.
3. Now, tell me what are you really trying to do? Do you act under the illusion that somehow, to use a cricket term batting for NTL? Surely, NTL has its own public relations staffers who ought to be promoting the company's image?
4. If you are batting for NTL and it makes you happy fine go ahead but don't insult our intelligence and give us BS.
Bye the way, I'm not aware that I have been rude to you.
Originally posted by Gogogo
4. If you are batting for NTL and it makes you happy fine go ahead but don't insult our intelligence and give us BS.
I believe that as much as OB works for NTL, she has personally decided to be part of the forums. She defends NTL with the information she has to hand, and helps many out with their problems.
She has not said that NTL are perfect, in fact complained herself on occasion. She has simply pointed out the facts as she sees them from the other side of the fence.
I don't think OB has insulted anyones intelligence, she has opinions as much as anyone, just because she works for NTL doesn't give anyone the right to insult her or any other NTL employee.
At the end of the day it's just a job.
<Sorry OB, having a bad day>
orangebird
18-09-2003, 17:05
Originally posted by Gogogo
2. Orangebird, I have already replied to your points some of which to me appeared rather dreamy and vague.
To which I replied - never got a response back though (apart from the dreamworld bit...)
3. Now, tell me what are you really trying to do? Do you act under the illusion that somehow, to use a cricket term batting for NTL? Surely, NTL has its own public relations staffers who ought to be promoting the company's image?
I wasn't trying to up the companies image - I was giving my opinion on the possible benefits of a merger.
4. If you are batting for NTL and it makes you happy fine go ahead but don't insult our intelligence and give us BS.
Again, I'm not batting for anybody, and am perfectly happy with myself, without having to big up my employer - Just putting across some views on how things might improve if there was a merger.
Why are you being so rude? And how have I insulted your intelligence by 'voicing' my thoughts on a few positive possibilities?
Originally posted by Gogogo
1. OK Imhere, point made, sorry I'll clean my specs.
No probs man, misunderstandings happen. Oh I am Imback on here, not sure where you got Imhere from;) :p
I hope their is no merger I'd feel sorry for the Telewest customers some of which I know and they know all about NTL lol
Their happy having nothing to do with it and I would be too after seeing their price plans and packages
orangebird
18-09-2003, 17:09
Originally posted by Nemesis
I believe that as much as OB works for NTL, she has personally decided to be part of the forums. She defends NTL with the information she has to hand, and helps many out with their problems.
She has not said that NTL are perfect, in fact complained herself on occasion. She has simply pointed out the facts as she sees them from the other side of the fence.
I don't think OB has insulted anyones intelligence, she has opinions as much as anyone, just because she works for NTL doesn't give anyone the right to insult her or any other NTL employee.
At the end of the day it's just a job.
<Sorry OB, having a bad day>
No apologies needed!
:D :drunk:
Originally posted by Nemesis
...I don't think OB has insulted anyones intelligence, she has opinions as much as anyone, just because she works for NTL doesn't give anyone the right to insult her or any other NTL employee.
At the end of the day it's just a job.
I repeat I have insulted no one. Grow up.
Originally posted by Gogogo
I repeat I have insulted no one. Grow up.
But you have now by saying 'grow up', can we all please not bait one another when you see something you do not agree with. It is rude and it can cause offense and most importantly it can cause threads to go off track which is something that we should not let happen, everyone here has shown they can discuss points in a thread, but sometimes we have our off days.
I have asked nicely, now I am warning everyone. Any continuous off topic posting and or baiting of each other will result in those posts being taken out. Lets get back to a healthy discussion - Please. :D
I agree with you 100% but perhaps some people should remember the name of the site NTHELLWORLD and not NTHEAVEN or NTL INTRANET
Originally posted by Defiant
I agree with you 100% but perhaps some people should remember the name of the site NTHELLWORLD and not NTHEAVEN or NTL INTRANET
It's not anti-NTL-troll.com either.
Ignition
18-09-2003, 18:52
Don't suppose it's worth mentioning that rights issues are a normal part of raising new capital when a share price is doing relatively well - IE analysts and the people in the know who buy the shares consider a company a viable investment?
It's quite an anti-ntl article in tone isn't it? Fact is this has been expected for a while, and isn't a mass panic, it's a way of saving money. The part about ntl holding their hands out and begging for cash is another strange way of putting it. If the shares weren't doing well, and the company were considered to be on its' way down and not able to provide a good return on the investment no-one would touch the new share issue, simple as.
This isn't indicative in any way of ntl about to return to chapter 11 bankruptcy, or go under. It's a reflection of a good share price meaning that the company can convert some of this into cash to pay down debt and increase profitability. It also improves the earnings to debt ratio, which may go to a point where ntl can borrow in the high yield markets again should it be required. Really it's all good unless you are an existing share holder who wants to sell soon after the issue, as the extra shares will dilute the price somewhat.
Graham F
18-09-2003, 18:53
Well i think its great that ntl are trying to reduce their debt mountain even further, this can only be seen as a positive move
Orangebird saidIt could also be ntl staff that go - it happened with the cwc buyout.
Indeed, I have heard a lot of cwc people complaining in the past that cwc people were made redundant. I think it actually depended on the franchise and who had the power.
I know in Wales during planning for growth some departments were stripped to the bare bones to keep jobs for the cwc people in the midlands. It was a strange situation where people up country were making very silly decisions about local network issues without actually knowing what they were talking about!
It was all an excersise by a cwc guy who gained power and was looking after his own people at all costs.
Orangebird saidReduction of staff (a major cost cutter, with extra money going towards upgrades/new build etc). Greater buying power. (In the future) access to both networks would expand services available to customers of both companies = more revenue. The ratio of assets to debts would be smaller - therefore improving credit rating and share price. I could go on..
I agree with most of that, but we cant assume that the guys running the show now are in for the long haul, we can say what we want to about the mess that Knapp made but at the end of the day he had a vision to conquer the industry by building and buying an empire. he made lots of mistakes and lined his own pocket in the process but his agenda was a lot clearer than the current mob.
Orangebird saidWhy are you all talking about who's best to buy ntl when they aren't even for sale?
Would you bet your life savings that they are not in a board meeting thrashing out some deal right now?
I think it's silly for any of us to say either way without having first knowledge of these board meetings what they are up to.
defiant saidI hope their is no merger I'd feel sorry for the Telewest customers some of which I know and they know all about NTL lol
I would like to see the Telewest people get the upper hand if it happens, employees will no doubt see the managers start to fight it out amongst themselves for power in true ntl fashion.
I know Telewest were a much more professional outfit for their engineering skills and practices a few years ago, a lot of things carried out in ntl were a bit "mickey mouse" even before money was short.
Originally posted by Scooby
Well i think its great that ntl are trying to reduce their debt mountain even further, this can only be seen as a positive move
But they wont to borrow more to try and buy Telewest!
Graham F
18-09-2003, 20:03
Originally posted by Defiant
But they wont to borrow more to try and buy Telewest!
No!!
It would be a 'merger' if it ever happened as neithier company are in a postion to buy the other
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dr. Plummer
But you have now by saying 'grow up', can we all please not bait one another when you see something you do not agree with. [QUOTE]
Well Dr. P. that was rather tactful. I do not as a golden rule abuse anyone. I am just totally bored with people writing BS.
I am opposed to any merger between NTL & Telewest it is against customer and public interests. Telewest customers should be concerned and should look at the different nthellworld sites and see for themselves what a shabby company NTL is. Telewest is better off as a going concern on its own.
I've said everything I want to say now and will not write anymore on this.
:spin:
Originally posted by Scooby
No!!
It would be a 'merger' if it ever happened as neithier company are in a postion to buy the other
Now why would they be doing that when their doing this http://www.business.scotsman.com/media.cfm?id=879352003
directors are expected to ask shareholders to subscribe to as much as £400 million of new shares.
Graham F
18-09-2003, 20:14
not only is it a very old article the first line of the article says...
CABLE television firm NTL is poised to revive hopes for a merger with struggling rival Telewest,
please note the word merger!! It was a misleading headline though :rolleyes:
All the articles i have read abt this subject say merger as there is no way ntl or telewest would get the funding to buy the other.
Ntl are doing the share deal to help reduce its debt burden and for no other reason!!
Well it seems "some" people on here think its a good idea but try finding a Telewest customer that thinks the same. A mate of mine has already said he'd get rid and move to sky rather than have anything to do with NTL LOL
Graham F
18-09-2003, 20:21
People say a lot of things, the reality is often different though :)
To be honest if its going to happen which IMO it will the customers of both companies will have no say in it what so ever
Undisputedtruth
21-09-2003, 11:13
Originally posted by Nemesis
Ohhhh I see, were back to the conspiracy theories ....
come on GROW UP, what is this are you and UDT best buddies or something.
No, "we are not the best of buddies". If are aware, which I don't think you are, he was critical of me in the London broadband thread using the same tone as you, Nemesis. Gogogo has simply got wised to NTL through his own discoveries.
Originally posted by Dr. Plummer
But you have now by saying 'grow up', can we all please not bait one another when you see something you do not agree with. Please. :D
Why is it you reprimanded Gogogo and not Nemesis for her comments in post # 44. Gogogo has simply given Nemesis a taste of her own medicine.
Originally posted by orangebird
Why are you all talking about who's best to buy ntl when they aren't even for sale? :confused:
Bless her. OB is willing to say anything to save her company.
OB, a company does not have to put up a "for sale sign" :rolleyes:- it is either a friendly take over where both parties agree or an unfriendly takeover where both parties will battle against each other. A great example of this was when Vodafone took over Mannesman, Mannesman battled hard against it.
Undisputedtruth
21-09-2003, 11:27
Originally posted by orangebird
You consider an increase of 30000 customers to be 'falling apart'??
NTL has lost 174,000 customers last year. That is a serious number and I can understand why people are claiming NTL are falling apart. I think NTL are trying to counteract this serious problems by given away their services for free in order to gain more customers. Let's face, they are unable to gain customers through normal pricing structure and customer services. Last year has proven that.
With the increase of customer numbers, their figures look better ahead of any mergers or financial results.
I can't believe this...the same old people arguing over the same old topics....the same old insults being thrown around.... :rolleyes:
After numerous complaints, I'm not going to be watching this thread, any personal digs will be removed asap.
Originally posted by Russ D
I can't believe this...the same old people arguing over the same old topics....the same old insults being thrown around.... :rolleyes:
After numerous complaints, I'm not going to be watching this thread, any personal digs will be removed asap.
Further to this, I received a reported post asking why I had picked up on a post Gogogo has submitted, firstly, reported posts are not to be used for asking moderators questions they are there to report abuse so please private message them, secondly, Gogogo had stated that he had not insulted anyone, but by adding 'grow up' it just adds fuel to the fire. In any case regardless if Nemesis had posted the same thing, my post was aimed at everyone.
Now the topic on 'Troubled NTL plans $1bn rights issue' will continue.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
NTL has lost 174,000 customers last year. That is a serious number and I can understand why people are claiming NTL are falling apart. I think NTL are trying to counteract this serious problems by given away their services for free in order to gain more customers. Let's face, they are unable to gain customers through normal pricing structure and customer services. Last year has proven that.
With the increase of customer numbers, their figures look better ahead of any mergers or financial results.
Discounted services are a perfectly legitimate way of getting in new business and while it may suggest that times are hard as they can't attract the customers they want at full price, it certainly does not mean they are 'falling apart'.
BT are not falling apart, yet they allow old customers to 'reconnect for free', despite there being a standard connection charge. Orange weren't falling apart when they connected me for free due to a promotion they were running that month. The hotel company I work for is filling its rooms, but by lowering the room rate below the published 'rack rate' price. Times are hard in the hotels business but we are not falling apart either.
Should start an I LOVE NTLer's club here. These people really are kidding themselve's or trying to insult genuine customers
Originally posted by Defiant
Should start an I LOVE NTLer's club here. These people really are kidding themselve's or trying to insult genuine customers
Assuming that that slightly childish remark was aimed in my general direction ... how do you define a 'genuine' ntl customer? I have had a phone line from them for 3 years and DTV and 600k BB for about 18 months. If I still don't qualify as a genuine customer, perhaps you could suggest how I might make the grade?
PS I'm not remotely interested if your idea of 'genuine' is limited to someone who snipes at ntl, anyone connected with ntl or anyone who dares to say anything positive about ntl. Only bother replying if you have something constructive to add to the topic. But I won't hold my breath.
Undisputedtruth
21-09-2003, 15:53
Originally posted by towny
Assuming that that slightly childish remark was aimed in my general direction ... how do you define a 'genuine' ntl customer? I have had a phone line from them for 3 years and DTV and 600k BB for about 18 months. If I still don't qualify as a genuine customer, perhaps you could suggest how I might make the grade?
PS I'm not remotely interested if your idea of 'genuine' is limited to someone who snipes at ntl, anyone connected with ntl or anyone who dares to say anything positive about ntl. Only bother replying if you have something constructive to add to the topic. But I won't hold my breath.
I had a PM from an employee of NTL wanting to discuss some of the issues raised. I took the view on the fact he was an NTL employee and he could not give an impartial opinion. He declared, straightaway he was no longer an employee of NTL and that I must treat his views as a customer only. :rolleyes: Anyway, the point is, there must be a number of NTL employees posing as customers without declaring they work for NTL. Even if you confront them with the question "Do you work for NTL?" they would probably deny it.
I often seen swipes from the declared NTL employees aimed at customers. So in a nutshell I can see where Defiant is coming from.
Undisputedtruth
21-09-2003, 15:58
Originally posted by towny
Discounted services are a perfectly legitimate way of getting in new business and while it may suggest that times are hard as they can't attract the customers they want at full price, it certainly does not mean they are 'falling apart'.
BT are not falling apart, yet they allow old customers to 'reconnect for free', despite there being a standard connection charge. Orange weren't falling apart when they connected me for free due to a promotion they were running that month. The hotel company I work for is filling its rooms, but by lowering the room rate below the published 'rack rate' price. Times are hard in the hotels business but we are not falling apart either.
In one quarter NTL had lost 70,000 customers. From what OB is saying NTL had gained 30,000 customers in a quarter. So even with NTL giving away the service for free, the other 40,000 are not attracted to it. What does that say about the company?
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
I had a PM from an employee of NTL wanting to discuss some of the issues raised. I took the view on the fact he was an NTL employee and he could not give an impartial opinion. He declared, straightaway he was no longer an employee of NTL and that I must treat his views as a customer only. :rolleyes: Anyway, the point is, there must be a number of NTL employees posing as customers without declaring they work for NTL. Even if you confront them with the question "Do you work for NTL?" they would probably deny it.
I often seen swipes from the declared NTL employees aimed at customers. So in a nutshell I can see where Defiant is coming from.
How does that answer towny's question? A geniune customer of any business is somebody who buys/rents services or products, and pays for doing so.. A geniune customer doesn't have to be either for or against the company (it is up to them whether they are for or against) as long as they pay their bills.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
In one quarter NTL had lost 70,000 customers. From what OB is saying NTL had gained 30,000 customers in a quarter. So even with NTL giving away the service for free, the other 40,000 are not attracted to it. What does that say about the company?
Depends if they are the same quarter. For instance, in the quarter imediately after christmas, a lot of companies see a slow down in business as people pay off the bills run up over christmas. Admittedly, that applies to one-off purchases more than contracts. If the 70000 drop is in that quarter, and OB is talking about the quarter just gone, then seasonal differences like the one above may affect any comparison.
It could also say that the competition has been more effective in their marketing (and, lets face it, BT & Sky haven't stopped advertising recently). Seen any NTL ads recently?
Undisputedtruth
21-09-2003, 18:48
Originally posted by scastle
How does that answer towny's question? A geniune customer of any business is somebody who buys/rents services or products, and pays for doing so.. A geniune customer doesn't have to be either for or against the company (it is up to them whether they are for or against) as long as they pay their bills.
The point I'm trying to make is some of these people may use NTL products but their interests is not as a customer but as an employee. For example, a some of those people have their products subsidise by NTL so if there is a price increase they do not feel the pain as a normal genuine customer. If NTL ends the subsidies of these products to their customer then perhaps I would reconsider my view of whether to class them as genuine customers or not.
Originally posted by scastle
Seen any NTL ads recently?
Well I have seen one advertising things you can download via NTL BB like pirated movie's LOL
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
The point I'm trying to make is some of these people may use NTL products but their interests is not as a customer but as an employee. For example, a some of those people have their products subsidise by NTL so if there is a price increase they do not feel the pain as a normal genuine customer. If NTL ends the subsidies of these products to their customer then perhaps I would reconsider my view of whether to class them as genuine customers or not.
OK, so you are saying that the genuine customer are those that pay the full price (ie, not subsidised or anything)?
Originally posted by scastle
OK, so you are saying that the genuine customer are those that pay the full price (ie, not subsidised or anything)?
He's got a good point. Would also explain why NTL employee's think the sun shine's out of it
Undisputedtruth
22-09-2003, 10:27
At the moment I can only think the merger can benefit NTL rather than Telewest. It will reduce their size to debt ratio while it increases Telewest size to debt ratio. It will give NTL access to Telewest's superior management, better customer handling experience and according to Escapee better technical skills.
However, Telewest have everything to lose from NTL, mediocre management, poor customer handling skills and overall poor perception of NTL. I would expect many Telewest customers praying every night hoping NTL does not take them over. Let's face it, how many disgruntled Telewest customers has anyone has seen over the last few years?
In the run up to a potential merger of the two companies I think this site should offer facilities for Telewest customers. I for one is interested in their views and it will show how this site is taking a far more proactive approach and forward thinking.
Ignition
22-09-2003, 12:47
Copied and pasted onto both sites? Unlikely to happen on .com I'd have thought, until merger is actually in progress considering it's an ntl owned site and no official confirmation of a merger has happened as yet, it's inevitable but the timing still just a rumour.
As far as your other points go, I've seen plenty of upset Telewest customers, grass not always greener, etc, and debt ratio? You don't seem to appreciate how much bigger ntl are than Telewest..
To address your previous points, yes I work for ntl, yes I'm aware of your ongoing mission to upset as many ntl staff as possible (your words not mine), and I've never denied the fact when directly questioned, though I don't put it in front of all posts as these are quite literally my opinions, not those of my employer, and that's what they are, my employer not my life.
Undisputedtruth
22-09-2003, 12:59
Originally posted by JustAnotherN00b
Copied and pasted onto both sites? Unlikely to happen on .com I'd have thought, until merger is actually in progress considering it's an ntl owned site and no official confirmation of a merger has happened as yet, it's inevitable but the timing still just a rumour.
As far as your other points go, I've seen plenty of upset Telewest customers, grass not always greener, etc, and debt ratio? You don't seem to appreciate how much bigger ntl are than Telewest..
I would expect to hear about upset customers from Telewest, but I also expect the ratio of upset Telewest customers to be smaller than NTL. The same sort of 'grass was greener' talk was said about BT. After being with BT for a few months it was a welcome change from NTL customer services. I'm impressed with BT's professionalism.
At the momement I'm only hearing from people who constantly talk up NTL whenever possible and down talk the other telcos. It would be nice if we could hear from genuine customers. It is a shame there is no websites that caters for Telewest customers. This suggest there aren't as many disgruntled Telewest customers as NTL customers.
orangebird
22-09-2003, 13:03
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
<snip>
At the momement I'm only hearing from people who constantly talk up NTL whenever possible and down talk the other telcos. It would be nice if we could hear from genuine customers. It is a shame there is no websites that caters for Telewest customers. This suggest there aren't as many disgruntled Telewest customers as NTL customers.
But is it not possible that some 'genuine' customers of ntl are actually happy with ther service? Maybe the reason that you're only hearing what you are is because the majority of people are happy? ntl do have their failings (even as an employee I know that...;) ), and there's a great deal that can be improved on, but things are improving, if a little slowly. :)
Undisputedtruth
22-09-2003, 13:13
Sorry, but what this got to do with Telewest customers?:rolleyes:
I'm interest in whether Telewest customers are looking forward to the merger with NTL. As JustAnotherN00b and Orangebird are employers of NTL, it is not surprising they are using words to talk up NTL but they are now going off topic. JustAnotherN00b is trying to create another flaming war by wrongly suggesting I'm on a mission to upset as many NTL employees as possible. Let's keep it on topic Guys, no spamming about NTL.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
It is a shame there is no websites that caters for Telewest customers. This suggest there aren't as many disgruntled Telewest customers as NTL customers.
I had correspondence with a BBC online reporter a year or so ago after he did a piece lambasting ntl, during which he told me he was a Blueyonder BB user and found the service to be equivalent to ntl (the basis of our discussion was great when it works, nighmare if something goes wrong).
So, a year ago at least, Telewest had their problems although they could of course have improved. In my experience of ntl it is their response times when things go wrong that has got better.
To answer your other answers to me, I can understand how it might be frustrating if ex-employees come on and pose as satisfied customers just to give an overly positive view of things. I can assure you that I am not and have never been a member of the communist part ... errr ... I mean, NTL, and my views are entirely as a result of being a customer. However to be fair I had the distinct impression that Defiant was making a rather clumsy jibe about anyone who says positive things about NTL.
As regards statistics, you can't argue with figures, but the ones you quoted are not sufficient. In order to identify trends in NTL's customer base, churn over an extended period would need to be analysed, as would exactly what figures are included. For example, customers who move house are counted as 'new' connections, but on the other hand people who are cut off for not paying their bill are counted as disconnections, even though that figure is commonly taken as evidence of people being dissatisfied with the service.
If we are to arrive at an evidence-based view of whether ntl are improving, we will need a lot more information than anyone has so far posted in this thread.
In response to:
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
<snip>
JustAnotherN00b is trying to create another flaming war by wrongly suggesting I'm on a mission to upset as many NTL employees as possible. Let's keep it on topic Guys, no spamming about NTL.
:notopic:
Can we play nice please and keep threads ontopic.
Ignition
22-09-2003, 13:21
OK I'll drop this now + leave it with a URL - selective memory is dangerous so guess I'll address it:
http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?postid=32103#post32103 <--- from a previous thread that says a lot
http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?postid=57154#post57154 <-- from this one :(
You can't start another anti-employee rant (earlier in this thread) and not expect an employee or 2 to answer it.
Telewest customers are not the issue here anyway, this thread was about ntl and the $1bn rights issue, and has become a thread about possible merger, sniping at ntl and praising Telewest?
As I said in my first post rights issues are a normal part of financing of a company, BT have done it, even GE have done it.
This thread has become rather Telewest Vs ntl, surely irrelevant. Last time I checked this wasn't a Telewest forum nor a Telewest subject thread, this is an ntl based forum and thread, how can discussing ntl be construed as spam? Anyway in the real world today... :(
Originally posted by towny
However to be fair I had the distinct impression that Defiant was making a rather clumsy jibe about anyone who says positive things about NTL.
I just happen to know via the .com site that their are allot of NTL employees that are shouting the praise for NTL and remember how they used to put customers down who were angry with the service or lack of it should I say. I however as you have no doubt guessed don't put up with that sh1te. This is a customer focused website not an NTL intranet site unless the mods disagree with that of course
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
I'm interest in whether Telewest customers are looking forward to the merger with NTL. As JustAnotherN00b and Orangebird are employers of NTL, it is not surprising they are using words to talk up NTL but they are now going off topic. JustAnotherN00b is trying to create another flaming war by wrongly suggesting I'm on a mission to upset as many NTL employees as possible. Let's keep it on topic Guys, no spamming about NTL.
UDT, I think I read somewhere that NTL has over 600,000 broadband customers. The combined memberships of this site and .com are less than 10,000 (ie, less than 1% of the total customer base for broadband). While a lot of people are unhappy with their service (and most of them probably don't know about these sites), a lot of people are happy. Not all of them are NTL employees.
Also, bear in mind that not all company employees talk up the company. Russ D in his early days as Mr. E for instance.
It would be interesting to see how many Telewest customers are happy about the merger.
orangebird
22-09-2003, 13:30
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Sorry, but what this got to do with Telewest customers?:rolleyes:
I'm interest in whether Telewest customers are looking forward to the merger with NTL. As JustAnotherN00b and Orangebird are employers of NTL, it is not surprising they are using words to talk up NTL but they are now going off topic. JustAnotherN00b is trying to create another flaming war by wrongly suggesting I'm on a mission to upset as many NTL employees as possible. Let's keep it on topic Guys, no spamming about NTL.
Apologies, it wasn't clear from your post you only wanted replies from/about Telewest customers. :)
Undisputedtruth
22-09-2003, 13:37
Originally posted by JustAnotherN00b
OK I'll drop this now + leave it with a URL - selective memory is dangerous so guess I'll address it:
http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?postid=32103#post32103 <--- from a previous thread that says a lot
http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?postid=57154#post57154 <-- from this one :(
You can't start another anti-employee rant (earlier in this thread) and not expect an employee or 2 to answer it.
Telewest customers are not the issue here anyway, this thread was about ntl and the $1bn rights issue, and has become a thread about possible merger, sniping at ntl and praising Telewest?
As I said in my first post rights issues are a normal part of financing of a company, BT have done it, even GE have done it.
This thread has become rather Telewest Vs ntl, surely irrelevant. Last time I checked this wasn't a Telewest forum nor a Telewest subject thread, this is an ntl based forum and thread, how can discussing ntl be construed as spam? Anyway in the real world today... :(
Yes, I did say that and there is nothing from NTL to suggest they have improved in their customer services department. The link to the posting did not say I was on a mission to upset as many employees. Those were your words which you now proven to be untrue. Your reasons for doing so was to create another flame war and to go off topic.
It is documented independently that Telewest has a better customer service record than NTL. So let's keep it on topic, would Telewest customers be looking forward to the merger with NTL.
No more NTL spamming from NTL employees or proNTL mob please - it will only cause this thread to go off topic again.
Undisputedtruth
22-09-2003, 13:42
Originally posted by Defiant
I just happen to know via the .com site that their are allot of NTL employees that are shouting the praise for NTL and remember how they used to put customers down who were angry with the service or lack of it should I say. I however as you have no doubt guessed don't put up with that sh1te. This is a customer focused website not an NTL intranet site unless the mods disagree with that of course
I think certain people have forgotten that. I asked the mods to remove certain remarks from JustAnotherN00b. We just have to wait and see on what side of the they are on.
Undisputedtruth
22-09-2003, 13:44
Originally posted by orangebird
Apologies, it wasn't clear from your post you only wanted replies from/about Telewest customers. :)
My only worries now is that there maybe some NTL employees posing as Telewest customers.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
My only worries now is that there maybe some NTL employees posing as Telewest customers.
:rofl:
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
No more NTL spamming from NTL employees or proNTL mob please - it will only cause this thread to go off topic again.
Err, the topic is "Troubled NTL plans $1bn rights issue". Surely anything that is either pro or anti NTL is off topic?
orangebird
22-09-2003, 13:51
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
<snip>
No more NTL spamming from NTL employees or proNTL mob please - it will only cause this thread to go off topic again.
:confused:
But the topic was about ntl planning a rights issue, not a gauge on Telewest customers views.....
Ignition
22-09-2003, 13:55
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
I think certain people have forgotten that. I asked the mods to remove certain remarks from JustAnotherN00b. We just have to wait and see on what side of the they are on.
Wouldn't have thought they'd be on any side - if the posts broke the rules they are gone, if not they stay :shrug:
Originally posted by orangebird
:confused:
But the topic was about ntl planning a rights issue, not a gauge on Telewest customers views.....
I think views of Telewest customers would be on-topic if they were about the prospects of a merger. I think discussion of a merger is, in turm, on topic in the context of a wider debate about ntl's financial plans, because is this rumoured rights issue is part of ntl's financial planning.
Undisputedtruth
22-09-2003, 13:59
Originally posted by towny
I had correspondence with a BBC online reporter a year or so ago after he did a piece lambasting ntl, during which he told me he was a Blueyonder BB user and found the service to be equivalent to ntl (the basis of our discussion was great when it works, nighmare if something goes wrong).
So, a year ago at least, Telewest had their problems although they could of course have improved. In my experience of ntl it is their response times when things go wrong that has got better.
Even a year ago it was still documented Telewest had better customer services then NTL. Are the response times published for each companies or do I have to treat your answer as the Gospel truth?:rolleyes:
PS Will you stop attacking Defiant, it is not relevant to discussion. It was not so long ago he was a defender of NTL. Through his own experience he has seen the light!
Undisputedtruth
22-09-2003, 14:01
Originally posted by towny
I think views of Telewest customers would be on-topic if they were about the prospects of a merger. I think discussion of a merger is, in turm, on topic in the context of a wider debate about ntl's financial plans, because is this rumoured rights issue is part of ntl's financial planning.
You beat me to it!
andygrif
22-09-2003, 14:24
Originally posted by orangebird
But is it not possible that some 'genuine' customers of ntl are actually happy with ther service? Maybe the reason that you're only hearing what you are is because the majority of people are happy? ntl do have their failings (even as an employee I know that...;) ), and there's a great deal that can be improved on, but things are improving, if a little slowly. :)
I'm sure you see more of what it going on 'back of house' as it were, than us customers.
You're right, some things have improved in the 'customer service experience' of ntl, but at what cost?
I pay more now than ever before for the services they provide to me. The customer service call queues have got shorter, granted - but the answers you get once you get through are (and this is a sweeping generalisation) as moronic as ever....
It's to the point where I don't ring up anymore unless absolutely necessary, becuase I know what starts off as a simple enquiry or request, will end up with me getting angry - and I refuse to allow ntl the satisfaction of giving me a premature heart attack. If you're customers won't talk to you, then your business is in a very dangerous position.
The long-term technical problems are still there, ntl keep saying they're aware of them, but yet nothing happens (newsgroups, email, epg, interactive, caller display, cap).
The broadband product is creaking under the weight of new customers - this used to be the jewel in ntl's crown - now it's a lump of zirconia!
So yes....ntl may be getting better, but more has gone wrong lately for us mere insignificant customers than has gone right.
orangebird
22-09-2003, 14:47
Originally posted by andygrif
I'm sure you see more of what it going on 'back of house' as it were, than us customers.
You're right, some things have improved in the 'customer service experience' of ntl, but at what cost?
I pay more now than ever before for the services they provide to me. The customer service call queues have got shorter, granted - but the answers you get once you get through are (and this is a sweeping generalisation) as moronic as ever....
It's to the point where I don't ring up anymore unless absolutely necessary, becuase I know what starts off as a simple enquiry or request, will end up with me getting angry - and I refuse to allow ntl the satisfaction of giving me a premature heart attack. If you're customers won't talk to you, then your business is in a very dangerous position.
The long-term technical problems are still there, ntl keep saying they're aware of them, but yet nothing happens (newsgroups, email, epg, interactive, caller display, cap).
The broadband product is creaking under the weight of new customers - this used to be the jewel in ntl's crown - now it's a lump of zirconia!
So yes....ntl may be getting better, but more has gone wrong lately for us mere insignificant customers than has gone right.
What are you paying more than ever for?
Originally posted by orangebird
What are you paying more than ever for?
TV pack prices went up earlier this year - admittedly ntl claimed it wasn't their fault, but in order to reduce my monthly bill I had to drop from Family Pack to Base Pack - so ntl ended up getting less money out of me. A little counter-productive for them, ultimately, especially as I've now discovered I don't miss the channels I no longer have. Freeview is getting a little more tempting ...
andygrif
22-09-2003, 15:34
Originally posted by orangebird
What are you paying more than ever for?
As mentioned, TV has gone up - although I will say that there are more channels - but still not the range offered by Sky.
The phone costs have rocketed - to the point now where I use my home phone less, especially if it is a short call, I use my mobile instead (inclusive minutes, no connection charge).
The whole phone package was sold to me on the premise of being cheaper than anyone else at the time. Indeed at the time it was cheaper, but there are so many better value providers no - but I can't access them via an ntl line - but that's another thread subject.
What troubles me OB - is that out of all that I posted, you hone in on one item (which hopefully you now understand where I am coming from on that score too).:)
andygrif
22-09-2003, 15:36
Originally posted by towny
Freeview is getting a little more tempting ...
Especially when Sky elude that Sky One may launch on Freeview at some point in the future. Gime me that, E4 and I'm off to buy a box and bye bye ntl.
Originally posted by towny
Freeview is getting a little more tempting ...
Believe me after awhile you'll be missing nothing. Theirs plenty to watch on FREEview ;)
Originally posted by andygrif
Especially when Sky elude that Sky One may launch on Freeview at some point in the future. Gime me that, E4 and I'm off to buy a box and bye bye ntl.
I've often wondered about this. Sky is a shareholder in Freeview along with the BBC because it wants a means of getting money from TV viewers who will never buy a cable- or satellite-based pay-TV service. To that end you get Sky News and Sky Sports News on Freeview. Presumably their revenue stream from this comes from commercial breaks; don't know myself as I've never watched either channel.
Now Sky One and E4 are a different proposition. They are considered premium channels and a fair chunk of your subscription to NTL, Sky or Telewest goes to pay for those channels, AFAIK. If they were to go onto Freeview they would have to be convinced that the increase in advertising revenue would more than offset the loss of subscriptions.
I would love it if they did, but I can see NTL panicking at the thought - they would need to consider that rights issue a lot more seriously as they would be certain to lose subscriptions. (See, this is on topic after all!)
orangebird
22-09-2003, 16:07
Originally posted by towny
TV pack prices went up earlier this year - admittedly ntl claimed it wasn't their fault, but in order to reduce my monthly bill I had to drop from Family Pack to Base Pack - so ntl ended up getting less money out of me. A little counter-productive for them, ultimately, especially as I've now discovered I don't miss the channels I no longer have. Freeview is getting a little more tempting ...
Yes, I can understand that individuals prices may have gone up depending on what service you have, but for instance, 1meg bb wsa reduced by 30% (£15). Phone tariffs are comparable with any other phone provider, more channels in the tv packs etc.... It's not as though all they've done is price hikes. If you're going to critise ntl as a whole, then you need to include all the facts, rather than those that affect you personally. :)
Originally posted by orangebird
If you're going to critise ntl as a whole, then you need to include all the facts, rather than those that affect you personally. :)
Very true, hence my plea for a bigger selection of statistics in the 'Is it me...' thread. Selective quoting of figures does little to make things clearer, although ntl would do well to bear in mind that half-a-million individual personal experiences are very important. But now I'm off topic.
Originally posted by orangebird
Yes, I can understand that individuals prices may have gone up depending on what service you have, but for instance, 1meg bb wsa reduced by 30% (£15). Phone tariffs are comparable with any other phone provider, more channels in the tv packs etc.... It's not as though all they've done is price hikes. If you're going to critise ntl as a whole, then you need to include all the facts, rather than those that affect you personally. :)
They would have kept the 1MB at the higher price if not for Telewest. It was clear to NTL customers that they were being ripped off yet again and so they lowered the price inline with Telewest!. As the the phone well sorry nope their not. You can try your NTL PR all you like but NTL customers do compare the price's.
Oh that reminds me didn't they copy some of Telewests phone tarrifs too. Its clear to me which is the better run companie
Originally posted by Defiant
They would have kept the 1MB at the higher price if not for Telewest. It was clear to NTL customers that they were being ripped off yet again and so they lowered the price inline with Telewest!. As the the phone well sorry nope their not. You can try your NTL PR all you like but NTL customers do compare the price's.
Oh that reminds me didn't they copy some of Telewests phone tarrifs too. Its clear to me which is the better run companie
True, NTL probably did lower their prices in response to Telewest. This is standard practice in business. It's called responding to the competition.
Most companies, if they can (ie they have , will charge higher prices. BT (for instance) have prices that are comparable to (if not lower than) NTL. Do you think BT would have droppped their prices if the Cable Cos (or any competition) hadn't appeared and undercut them?
Undisputedtruth
22-09-2003, 17:00
Originally posted by orangebird
Yes, I can understand that individuals prices may have gone up depending on what service you have, but for instance, 1meg bb wsa reduced by 30% (£15). Phone tariffs are comparable with any other phone provider, more channels in the tv packs etc.... It's not as though all they've done is price hikes. If you're going to critise ntl as a whole, then you need to include all the facts, rather than those that affect you personally. :)
Off topic
The 15% reduction in 1meg service was only done to make it line with ADSL equivalent services. Even Bulldog at one stage was offering 2megs service for £29 per month making the NTL bb product expensive. Besides which, less than 5% of NTL customers actually benefit from the price cut.
I have a BT line and NTL line and I'm already paying less for my BT service then NTL. Sky offers more channels than NTL for equivalent prices if you remove the cost of the NTL line. Free line rental you must be joking! The only person that needs to lack at the facts, as a whole, is you Orangebird.
Now I replied to OB's post, so Towny and OB can we get back on topic!
Originally posted by scastle
True, NTL probably did lower their prices in response to Telewest. This is standard practice in business. It's called responding to the competition.
WRONG The NTL employee's on here will tell you their not in competition with Telewest (thanks to this goverment doing nothing about that)
They done it because their customers could see how NTL were ripping them off. Its about time they done something for themselve's instead of copying Telewest and BT
Originally posted by Defiant
WRONG The NTL employee's on here will tell you their not in competition with Telewest (thanks to this goverment doing nothing about that)
They done it because their customers could see how NTL were ripping them off. Its about time they done something for themselve's instead of copying Telewest and BT
Maybe they aren't in competition with Telewest. They are however in competition with BT (and other comms suppliers) and maybe that's what influenced them to bring prices down? I remember seeing ads at the time that made a big thing about how NTL 1Mb broadband was twice as fast as BT Openworld, and only £10 more expensive. IIRC that was actually the reason that both cable companies dropped the price.
andygrif
22-09-2003, 17:30
Originally posted by orangebird
Yes, I can understand that individuals prices may have gone up depending on what service you have, but for instance, 1meg bb wsa reduced by 30% (£15). Phone tariffs are comparable with any other phone provider, more channels in the tv packs etc.... It's not as though all they've done is price hikes. If you're going to critise ntl as a whole, then you need to include all the facts, rather than those that affect you personally. :)
But equally you cannot highlight one reduction and say that ntl are great value - which is what you elude to above. The cost of the broadband product being reduced, affected so few customers - and as discussed elsewhere, by lowering the margins opened the product up to a higher number of potential customers, more than making up for the difference.
You also chose not to respond to my post giving details of why I am paying more now than ever with the numerous price raises over the last few years.
All that said.....
I'm not sure I agree with your last sentiment - to a customer the whole value of the company is their dealings with it.
If you've had nothing but price hikes, then you think of the company as one who continually hikes the prices.
If you've had bad service a lot, you think of the company as one who doesn't care about good service.
If your STB breaks down all the time, you think of them as a company who provides unreliable equipment.
The phrase 'perception is reality' is very important to a company. If a customer perceives you as raising prices/providing bad service/having poor equipment - then to the customer this is the reality. This is what they tell their friends down the pub, this is what they discuss on here - becuase it is there experience of the company.
So to post my precise details.....
Right now, my phone costs far more than it would for the same package on BT/Sky. (Last time I checked it was, taking three months' phone bills into account, around 25% more expensive based on actual use). Plus I don't get access to many of the features such as Caller Display and free basic voice-mail.
The TV package cost is roughly comparable, after they reduced it to be in-line with Sky's costs. This was a good move financially and I'm sure reduced church - however Sky's system works, and offers far more channels.
The Broadband product is fairly competitively priced right now, although month on month is slips further away from being so. In addition, month on month it gets slower and slower and will be ripped out of my house soon if they don't do something about it. There are much leaner and more agresive companies now starting to provide BB - ntl is likely to increase prices for the 600+ packages in the not too distant future - to pay for the extra capacity needed - this would be suicide as far as I am concerned.
orangebird
22-09-2003, 17:30
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Off topic
The 15% reduction in 1meg service was only done to make it line with ADSL equivalent services.
No it wasn't - it was done to match Telewests.
Even Bulldog at one stage was offering 2megs service for £29 per month making the NTL bb product expensive. Besides which less than 5% of NTL customers actually benefit from the price cut.
I don't care to compare the same products if they're delivered differently - that's not a fair comparison. Also, did bulldog have the webspace/free modem etc etc?
I have a BT line and NTL line and I'm already paying less for BT service then NTL. Sky offers more channels than NTL for equivalent prices if you remove the cost of the NTL line. Free line you must be joking! The only person that needs to lack at the facts as a whole is you Orangebird.
Why are you paying more? ntl and bt's packages are generally identical. As for sky offering more channels, I wouldn't know, as I've never sat down and counted the channels on either service. One of the lety down's with sky is the stb though - you pay nothing for the stb with ntl, and it's maintenance free for your entire subscription. With sky, only for the first year is it cost free. After that you're on your own.
Anyhow, enough of comparing (off topic).
:)
Now I replied to OB's post, so Towny and OB can we get back on topic!
amen to that. :angel:
Undisputedtruth
22-09-2003, 17:31
Originally posted by scastle
Maybe they aren't in competition with Telewest. They are however in competition with BT (and other comms suppliers) and maybe that's what influenced them to bring prices down? I remember seeing ads at the time that made a big thing about how NTL 1Mb broadband was twice as fast as BT Openworld, and only £10 more expensive. IIRC that was actually the reason that both cable companies dropped the price.
It is a myth that a merger between NTL and Telewest would create more competition with BT. BT has been driving the price lower over the last 12 months. The cable companies are no longer leading the way in reducing prices. So if BT reduces prices, NTL and Telewest would reluctantly follow. Even if NTL cuts their call charges, they will compensate this by increasing other charges, ie charging for itemised billing thus effectively wiping out the price cuts.
andygrif
22-09-2003, 17:39
Originally posted by orangebird
[B]
I don't care to compare the same products if they're delivered differently - that's not a fair comparison. Also, did bulldog have the webspace/free modem etc etc?
That is the fundamental mistake ntl makes every time. Don't you get it? To the average consumer, they couldn't care less how it is delivered. What they want to know is, how fast is it, how much is it, how often does it break down. In that order. You MUST compare ADSL with Cable BB - becuase all your customers and potential customers do.
orangebird
22-09-2003, 17:43
Originally posted by andygrif
That is the fundamental mistake ntl makes every time. Don't you get it? To the average consumer, they couldn't care less how it is delivered. What they want to know is, how fast is it, how much is it, how often does it break down. In that order. You MUST compare ADSL with Cable BB - becuase all your customers and potential customers do.
Yes, I 'get' it. But, look at it another way. I want a car that goes 150 mph. An mr2 will do that speed. So will a Jaguar xkr. Does that mean that Jaguar should bring down their prices to match Toyotas?
andygrif
22-09-2003, 17:47
Originally posted by orangebird
Yes, I 'get' it. But, look at it another way. I want a car that goes 150 mph. An mr2 will do that speed. So will a Jaguar xkr. Does that mean that Jaguar should bring down their prices to match Toyotas?
We're not talking about a physical object, we're talking about a theoretical service.
You cannot compare physical and theoretical, and you sure can't compare ntl to a Jaguar!!! (BTW and MR2 will only do 130 mph, but that's not the point)
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
It is a myth that a merger between NTL and Telewest would create more competition with BT. BT has been driving the price lower over the last 12 months. The cable companies are no longer leading the way in reducing prices. So if BT reduces prices, NTL and Telewest would reluctantly follow. Even if NTL cuts their call charges, they will compensate this by increasing other charges, ie charging for itemised billing thus effectively wiping out the price cuts.
I never said it would. I said that NTL and Telewest lowered their prices to compete more effectively with ADSL.
Undisputedtruth
22-09-2003, 17:48
Originally posted by andygrif
That is the fundamental mistake ntl makes every time. Don't you get it? To the average consumer, they couldn't care less how it is delivered. What they want to know is, how fast is it, how much is it, how often does it break down. In that order. You MUST compare ADSL with Cable BB - becuase all your customers and potential customers do.
I think OB is running out of arguments to justify NTL's stance. She is now talking of unfairness of comparing ADSL with Cable. :rolleyes: NTL telephone charges comparable with BT and she couldn't be bothered to get her facts right on the number of channels SKY offers. So even OB, a staunch supporter of NTL as well as employee, is unable to justify how much better NTL is better than its competitors. I think it would be more sensible for OB to remain on-topic for once for obvious reasons.
orangebird
22-09-2003, 17:49
Originally posted by andygrif
We're not talking about a physical object, we're talking about a theoretical service.
You cannot compare physical and theoretical, and you sure can't compare ntl to a Jaguar!!!
But you can compare satellite to cable? Oh, OK then.....
Undisputedtruth
22-09-2003, 17:51
Originally posted by scastle
I never said it would. I said that NTL and Telewest lowered their prices to compete more effectively with ADSL.
I never said you did. All I said was BT is the main driver for reducing charges over the last 12 months with NTL & Telewest reluctant to follow suit.
andygrif
22-09-2003, 17:51
Originally posted by orangebird
But you can compare satellite to cable? Oh, OK then.....
Yes, becuase I am not comparing the physical, I'm comparing the theoretical. You need to understand the difference between the two before you can criticise the post.
Even if we use your weak analogy of the Toyota and the Jaguar, as we all know the Jaguar has a more powerful engine, is better built, will last longer, goes faster, looks better (arguably), has more to offer and yes costs more.
However if we compare Sky/BT with NTL, which of the two meet the following:
- Has the more powerful engine?
- Is better built?
- Is likely to last longer?
- Goes faster?
- Looks better?
- More offered?
- Costs more.......?
The only one NTL win for me is the last one.....so comparing your XJS and MR2 is not such a good idea after all:D
orangebird
22-09-2003, 17:53
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
I think OB is running out of arguments to justify NTL's stance. She is now talking of unfairness of comparing ADSL with Cable. :rolleyes:
How can you compare different technologies/costs etc?
NTL telephone charges comparable with BT and she couldn't be bothered to get her facts right on the number of channels SKY offers. So even OB, a staunch supporter of NTL as well as employee, is unable to justify how much better NTL is better than its competitors. I think it would be more sensible for OB to remain on-topic for once for obvious reasons.
As you are unable to justify (as per my question) why bt are cheaper for you than ntl?........
And, I do believe, I am as on topic as you are. (When's that pot/kettle smilie going to be available? )
orangebird
22-09-2003, 17:55
Originally posted by andygrif
Yes, becuase I am not comparing the physical, I'm comparing the theoretical. You need to understand the difference between the two before you can criticise the post.
I do, thank you. Can we please take of the patronising hat now?
andygrif
22-09-2003, 17:59
Originally posted by orangebird
I do, thank you. Can we please take of the patronising hat now?
Well never let it be said I don't give as good as I get!
Now I know you understand the difference, perhaps we can go back to comparing ADSL with Cable BB - which are the same thing delivered by different methods....
....Like Walkers' crisps.....Tesco has them delivered by the articulated lorry, my local corner shop has them delivered by the owner's transit van.....but I still compare the prices of the same product.....
Originally posted by orangebird
Yes, I 'get' it. But, look at it another way. I want a car that goes 150 mph. An mr2 will do that speed. So will a Jaguar xkr. Does that mean that Jaguar should bring down their prices to match Toyotas?
OB, Most people would notice the difference between an xkr doing 150 and an mr2 doing 150 (the xkr being a more comfortable and classier car), but your average joe soap using a broadband connection just cares that it is faster. He or she would not care that it comes via cable or ADSL. Especially with a few companies giving free ADSL modems away.
The same with Satellite and Cable TV. In my experience most people choose a system based on choice of channels and/or cost. They are not too worried whether it comes from a dish, and aerial or a cable.
If you ignore the fact that the XKR is more comfortable and the extra features, and the fact it is classier than the MR2 (not that I'd say no to either), then the cars comparison is valid.
orangebird
22-09-2003, 18:06
:rolleyes:
You can't have a reasonable unbiased discussion with a balanced view of both sides. For the last few posts, I have taken on board an cosidered opposing views. When I post my views, they get poo-pooed, or simply ignored -depends on what suits your agenda. Fact is, BT has unhappy customers. Sky have unhappy customers. ntl have unhappy customers. I also believe that all three companies do want and try to exceed in the 'customer experience'. But all three companies also have happy customers too. I accept this fully, therefore I really don't think it's me that needs the patronising lectures, thank you. :wavey:
Undisputedtruth
22-09-2003, 18:07
Originally posted by andygrif
Well never let it be said I don't give as good as I get!
Now I know you understand the difference, perhaps we can go back to comparing ADSL with Cable BB - which are the same thing delivered by different methods....
....Like Walkers' crisps.....Tesco has them delivered by the articulated lorry, my local corner shop has them delivered by the owner's transit van.....but I still compare the prices of the same product.....
Well said Andy. I think this getting embarrassing for OB. Here's a link to give her more sleepless nights!
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/22/32949.html
orangebird
22-09-2003, 18:13
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Well said Andy. I think this getting embarrassing for OB. Here's a link to give her more sleepless nights!
Too kind udt. You needn't have bothered though. As far as all this goes, it's a job, nothing more. I sleep very soundly, regardless.
I don't think I'll bother with the link though - anyone who regards anything the register has to say as even a half truth, or sees it even as a mildly interesting read is a dimwit, who probably has the sunday sport or such like delivered to their doorstep every week.. :)
edit = just my opinion you understand, not that of my employers.
Undisputedtruth
22-09-2003, 18:15
Originally posted by orangebird
:rolleyes:
You can't have a reasonable unbiased discussion with a balanced view of both sides. For the last few posts, I have taken on board an cosidered opposing views. When I post my views, they get poo-pooed, or simply ignored -depends on what suits your agenda. Fact is, BT has unhappy customers. Sky have unhappy customers. ntl have unhappy customers. I also believe that all three companies do want and try to exceed in the 'customer experience'. But all three companies also have happy customers too. I accept this fully, therefore I really don't think it's me that needs the patronising lectures, thank you. :wavey:
I sincerely hope you were not aiming your remark at scastle. He has given support to NTL where he feels credit were due. He just feels you were wrong. I couldn't agree more.
orangebird
22-09-2003, 18:16
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
I sincerely hope you were not aiming your remark at scastle. He has given support to NTL where he feels credit were due. He just feels you were wrong. I couldn't agree more.
Not aimed at scastle at all - for what it's worth, scastle is always very steady in his/her veiws, a very reasonable member. Nor was I being racist, abusive or rude. Just a general post. It's really nice to see you looking out for other members though :) :)
Originally posted by orangebird
I don't think I'll bother with the link though - anyone who regards anything the register has to say as even a half truth, or sees it even as a midly interesting read is a dimwit, who probably has the sunday sport or such like delivered to their doorstep every week.. :)
Better than listening to NTL :D
Richard M
22-09-2003, 18:20
Originally posted by orangebird
Too kind udt. You needn't have bothered though. As far as all this goes, it's a job, nothing more. I sleep very soundly, regardless.
I don't think I'll bother with the link though - anyone who regards anything the register has to say as even a half truth, or sees it even as a mildly interesting read is a dimwit, who probably has the sunday sport or such like delivered to their doorstep every week.. :)
Even I take offence at that remark.
Chill out please.
I like the Reg. And I read the Observer.
orangebird
22-09-2003, 18:22
Originally posted by BBKing
I like the Reg. And I read the Observer.
Good for you :)
Undisputedtruth
22-09-2003, 18:24
Originally posted by orangebird
Not aimed at scastle at all - for what it's worth, scastle is always very steady in his/her veiws, a very reasonable member. Nor was I being racist, abusive or rude. Just a general post. It's really nice to see you looking out for other members though :) :)
And let us not forget Andy for his wonderful insight. At the moment, I think your message, OB, in post #143 was rude and uncalled for. I also know a number of NTL employees also read the Register. Also I can remember you given Rippedoff a racist comment.
Can I advise you to keep on topic as your constant defending of NTL at any cost is getting embarrassing for you.
orangebird
22-09-2003, 18:24
Originally posted by Roger K
Even I take offence at that remark.
Chill out please.
Sorry if I offended you Roger. Please remove/edit as you see fit :)
Richard M
22-09-2003, 18:27
No need to edit it, but everyone should stop having a go at each other all the time. :)
orangebird
22-09-2003, 18:30
Originally posted by scastle
I like the reg too.
Excellent. But in my opinion, it's nothing more than a very poor gossip colum, that publishes whatever it can get away with, for the sake of sensationalism. The emblem speaks for itself. :)
Undisputedtruth
22-09-2003, 18:33
Originally posted by scastle
I like the reg too.
Me too.:wavey:
Undisputedtruth
22-09-2003, 18:47
Originally posted by Roger K
No need to edit it, but everyone should stop having a go at each other all the time. :)
We were only discussing, it is not our fault OB has got personal.
orangebird
22-09-2003, 18:51
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
We were only discussing, it is not our fault OB has got personal.
Lord, no. Nothing personal about it :)
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Me too.:wavey:
:eek: UDT, we agree on something... :D
I know that $1bn is a lot of money, but I don't think NTL have much to worry about (yet), and it is standard for companies to ask the shareholders to buy more shares from time to time.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
It will also be interesting to see what happens if the Telewest merger goes ahead.
And ,of course, OB is entitled to her own opinions (as is everybody).
Undisputedtruth
22-09-2003, 18:58
Originally posted by scastle
:eek: UDT, we agree on something... :D
I know that $1bn is a lot of money, but I don't think NTL have much to worry about (yet), and it is standard for companies to ask the shareholders to buy more shares from time to time.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
It will also be interesting to see what happens if the Telewest merger goes ahead.
And ,of course, OB is entitled to her own opinions (as is everybody).
Of course, OB is entitled to her own opinions. I just think her constant defending of NTL is getting embarrassing for her.
orangebird
22-09-2003, 19:02
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Of course, OB is entitled to her own opinions. I just think her constant defending of NTL is getting embarrassing for her.
:rolleyes::rolleyes: :zzz:
Have you read your pm's today?
Undisputedtruth
22-09-2003, 19:19
Originally posted by orangebird
:rolleyes::rolleyes: :zzz:
Have you read your pm's today?
Can you please stop bugging me with your PMs. It is not relevant to current discussions.
This is better than coronation street
orangebird
22-09-2003, 19:23
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Can you please stop bugging me with your PMs. It is not relevant to current discussions.
I thought it was very relevant to your hypocritical post #150. But I also though it best to keep it to pm - not this thread. Shame you didn't.
Have a lovely evening.
:)
Undisputedtruth
22-09-2003, 19:31
Originally posted by orangebird
I thought it was very relevant to your hypocritical post #150. But I also though it best to keep it to pm - not this thread. Shame you didn't.
Have a lovely evening.
:)
Geez, talking about 'scraping the barrel'. OB give it a rest, say no to the overtime offered by NTL, put your feet up with a cup of tea or something stronger.
admin edit - OFFENSIVE COMMENT REMOVED
Right UTD, the last comment from you has lead me to close this thread until further notice.
Post is now re-opened - if there are ANY offensive comments or personal digs by anyone, it'll be permanently locked.
orangebird
22-09-2003, 20:33
My feeling is, it's not if, it's when. And I think it's going to happen (the merger) end of q1, poss beginning of q2. :)
Oh my the joys Telewest have to look forward too
orangebird
22-09-2003, 20:42
Originally posted by Defiant
Oh my the joys Telewest have to look forward too
It could be awful (for both companies), or it could be great. Suppose we'll just have to wait and see......
Originally posted by orangebird
My feeling is, it's not if, it's when. And I think it's going to happen (the merger) end of q1, poss beginning of q2. :)
Just told a mate this who's on Telewest. Here's the response "noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo"
orangebird
22-09-2003, 20:55
Originally posted by Defiant
Just told a mate this who's on Telewest. Here's the response "noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo"
Did he live in a ntl area previously then? What does he think ntl lacks compared to Telewest?
Originally posted by orangebird
Did he live in a ntl area previously then? What does he think ntl lacks compared to Telewest?
He's seen their TV packs for one. I used to work with him and so knew he got a better deal than I ever did with NTL. He knows he will be paying more with NTL
orangebird
22-09-2003, 21:04
Originally posted by Defiant
He's seen their TV packs for one. I used to work with him and so knew he got a better deal than I ever did with NTL. He knows he will be paying more with NTL
But he's never actually been a customer? Oh well, let's hope (if the merger should take place), that he'll be open minded enough to give it a try. One mans junk is another mans treasure etc.... :)
I'd be glad about a merger if NTL took up Telewests packages and price's. Plus have their people running things
Infact I'd most likely take up the TV again!
orangebird
22-09-2003, 21:21
Originally posted by Defiant
I'd be glad about a merger if NTL took up Telewests packages and price's. Plus have their people running things
Infact I'd most likely take up the TV again!
I'm not really clear on why you think Telewest could do any better than ntl?
Customer satisfaction for one and their tv packages starting at £13.50!
They think ahead something NTL never do till last minute perhaps. They've seen a threat from FREEview for instance and so introduced this new package
andygrif
23-09-2003, 11:29
Originally posted by orangebird
But he's never actually been a customer? Oh well, let's hope (if the merger should take place), that he'll be open minded enough to give it a try. One mans junk is another mans treasure etc.... :)
Well I'm glad the thread had calmed down a little....OB I do want to say that nothing I have said was aimed at offending any one person, so I hope you did not take it that way.
I have had experience of United Artists cable (before it became Telewest) when I lived in Bristol.
They were far from good back then, but I do not know if they have improved since. From what I read elsewhere (such as on Digital Spy) is that they do have a lot of problems, but the general impression I get is that their customers do seem to think that they are getting better.
Of course, there are less Telewest customers than NTL, that might indicate why there are less complaints, or it might just be the case that it is easier to fix the problems for fewer customers.
I might be totally wrong here, but I believe that Telewest has only one system and that they have harmonized customer contact.
NTL has the two systems, which brings with it a whole raft of problems, and each section of the business is run separately - this causes many of the problems for customers of ntl.
This is all of course just speculation, merging the two companies could be good, could be bad or could be indifferent.
What I don't see is that newco will have any more clout than the two currently have.....remember:
- ADSL has more customers than all cable BB customers
- Sky has more customers than all cable TV customers
- BT has more customers than all telephone customers
orangebird
23-09-2003, 11:34
Originally posted by andygrif
<snip>What I don't see is that newco will have any more clout than the two currently have.....remember:
Newco? Great name for the newly mergered companies!
Originally posted by orangebird
Newco? Great name for the newly mergered companies!
Only marginally better than, say ... Nellywest? ;)
andygrif
23-09-2003, 12:19
Newco is just a term that the business community refer to merging companies as, before a name is publicly announced.
I do like Nellywest myself!
Undisputedtruth
23-09-2003, 19:18
Originally posted by andygrif
Well I'm glad the thread had calmed down a little....OB I do want to say that nothing I have said was aimed at offending any one person, so I hope you did not take it that way.
I have had experience of United Artists cable (before it became Telewest) when I lived in Bristol.
They were far from good back then, but I do not know if they have improved since. From what I read elsewhere (such as on Digital Spy) is that they do have a lot of problems, but the general impression I get is that their customers do seem to think that they are getting better.
Of course, there are less Telewest customers than NTL, that might indicate why there are less complaints, or it might just be the case that it is easier to fix the problems for fewer customers.
I might be totally wrong here, but I believe that Telewest has only one system and that they have harmonized customer contact.
NTL has the two systems, which brings with it a whole raft of problems, and each section of the business is run separately - this causes many of the problems for customers of ntl.
This is all of course just speculation, merging the two companies could be good, could be bad or could be indifferent.
What I don't see is that newco will have any more clout than the two currently have.....remember:
- ADSL has more customers than all cable BB customers
- Sky has more customers than all cable TV customers
- BT has more customers than all telephone customers
Interesting article. I very much doubt the supporters of NTL can say anything different!
Got to wonder how cost effective that is too. is this getting their house in order or taking Telewest into a disorganised one
NTL has the two systems, which brings with it a whole raft of problems, and each section of the business is run separately - this causes many of the problems for customers of ntl.
I very much doubt the supporters of NTL can say anything different!
How about 'ntl have a couple of hundred thousand more broadband customers than BT'?
Also the 150k service is unique to ntl and selling very well, thus indicating that someone in marketing's got something right.
Undisputedtruth
23-09-2003, 21:29
Originally posted by BBKing
How about 'ntl have a couple of hundred thousand more broadband customers than BT'?
Also the 150k service is unique to ntl and selling very well, thus indicating that someone in marketing's got something right.
Not sure if this true about NTL having a couple of hundred thousand more broadband customers. Are you confusing the 150K service as bb. I think we established 150K is not really bb.:rolleyes: At least BT has provided the facility for other companies to offer bb products. Hats off to BT.
The 150K is a unique selling point, granted, it is marketed for dial up customers. If you look at the number of customers on 512K or more, I'm afraid NTL haven't got much to shout about in terms of numbers.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Not sure if this true about NTL having a couple of hundred thousand more broadband customers. Are you confusing the 150K service as bb. I think we established 150K is not really bb.:rolleyes: At least BT has provided the facility for other companies to offer bb products. Hats off to BT.
IIRC BT did NOT do this willingly. In fact, they still seem to be dragging their heels over LLU.
The 150K is a unique selling point, granted, it is marketed for dial up customers. If you look at the number of customers on 512K or more, I'm afraid NTL haven't got much to shout about in terms of numbers.
Does anyone have any figures for BB sales withouth 150K customers included?
andygrif
23-09-2003, 22:10
Originally posted by BBKing
How about 'ntl have a couple of hundred thousand more broadband customers than BT'?
Also the 150k service is unique to ntl and selling very well, thus indicating that someone in marketing's got something right.
But we've been told off for comparing DSL with cable BB:)
Seriously, maybe they do have more customers than BT Openworld, but BT Wholesale have EVERY DSL customer.
The point I was making was one question if newco would carry more clout than separate ones, and the DSL figure I quoted was combining all DSL connections - I'm not talking about BT customers in that example, I'm talking all BB connections. We also don't know if Freeserve, Virgin and AOL customers also make up NTL's BB figures.
Undisputedtruth
23-09-2003, 22:30
Originally posted by andygrif
But we've been told off for comparing DSL with cable BB:)
Seriously, maybe they do have more customers than BT Openworld, but BT Wholesale have EVERY DSL customer.
The point I was making was one question if newco would carry more clout than separate ones, and the DSL figure I quoted was combining all DSL connections - I'm not talking about BT customers in that example, I'm talking all BB connections. We also don't know if Freeserve, Virgin and AOL customers also make up NTL's BB figures.
Looks like the pro NTL mob are running out of excuses.
scastle, have a look at this
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/22/30467.html
and this
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/22/30173.html
and this
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/30526.html
Though a few months old, the story about whether you can define 150K as bb remains the same.
orangebird
24-09-2003, 09:36
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Looks like the pro NTL mob are running out of excuses.
scastle, have a look at this
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/22/30467.html
and this
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/22/30173.html
and this
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/30526.html
Though a few months old, the story about whether you can define 150K as bb remains the same.
I didn't think that it was so much the 'bb' but the 'high speed' that ntl couldn't claim?
andygrif
24-09-2003, 09:44
Well the way my BB is right now, they can't claim 'high speed' for anything.
Originally posted by andygrif
Well the way my BB is right now, they can't claim 'high speed' for anything.
No doubt they give AOL some kind of priority traffic on their network though
Originally posted by Defiant
No doubt they give AOL some kind of priority traffic on their network though
Prolly 'cos AOL, unlike the rest of us, have a SLA they can wave under ntl's nose if the network gets too flakey...
orangebird
24-09-2003, 12:01
Originally posted by Defiant
No doubt they give AOL some kind of priority traffic on their network though
How is that possible?
Originally posted by orangebird
How is that possible?
Technically I know it's not difficult. Different business applications on our WAN are all assigned different priorities depending on how critical they are. I am acutely aware of this because my intranet is pretty much at the bottom of the list :(
Someone with the know-how will have to post on here to say exactly how you do it though.
Originally posted by orangebird
How is that possible?
You work for NTL and you dont know something simple like this can be done. have a word with your network department. Its already been said its down to SLA, Money talks
Ignition
24-09-2003, 12:07
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
At least BT has provided the facility for other companies to offer bb products. Hats off to BT.
BT's monopolistic attitude towards Local Loop Unbundling and the huge barriers of entry they put up on this and DataStream (which uses less of the BT network than the standard implementation, IPStream, and is therefore not as profitable in theory though in practise somewhat different) speaks for itself.
NTL offer wholesale broadband access to AOL as you may know over the cable modem network, and supply the infrastructure for virgin, and would I imagine offer wholesale access to other companies that stumped up the £ÃÆ ’‚£Ãà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚£. No neither of these are included in the broadband subscribers number, that is purely ntlworld cable modem subscribers.
Defiant, as far as I know AOL don't get priority over ntlworld users for bandwidth or latency on uBRs. I don't know that for a 100% fact but I'd have thought it unlikely, believe what you will though, speculation, especially selacious speculation is always entertaining however distant from reality it is.
Originally posted by JustAnotherN00b
Defiant, as far as I know AOL don't get priority over ntlworld users for bandwidth or latency on uBRs. I don't know that for a 100% fact but I'd have thought it unlikely, believe what you will though, speculation, especially selacious speculation is always entertaining however distant from reality it is.
How much did AOL pay. Something like £80 million was it?
Do you really think their was no SLA. One which would have compensated AOL for bad service performance etc. Of course their is so their network dept will be keeping track of this at the expense of NTL customers (their life line)
AOL arn't daft and NTL just think their customers are
orangebird
24-09-2003, 12:20
Originally posted by Defiant
You work for NTL and you dont know something simple like this can be done. have a word with your network department. Its already been said its down to SLA, Money talks
Yes, I work for ntl - but no I don't work anywhere near or for networks, therefore I don't know - the compnay is made up fo 5 different divisions and 13000 people - a bit of a tall order to know how everything is done..... :rolleyes:
Do you know how? Could you explain?
Originally posted by orangebird
Yes, I work for ntl - but no I don't work anywhere near or for networks, therefore I don't know - the compnay is made up fo 5 different divisions and 13000 people - a bit of a tall order to know how everything is done..... :rolleyes:
Do you know how? Could you explain?
I dont know NTL's setup or how they have setup the AOL users's but I'd guess for one it would be done through ip range's. I presume for instance they have different ranges to NTL users yes ?
Originally posted by JustAnotherN00b
Defiant, as far as I know AOL don't get priority over ntlworld users for bandwidth or latency on uBRs. I don't know that for a 100% fact but I'd have thought it unlikely, believe what you will though, speculation, especially selacious speculation is always entertaining however distant from reality it is.
'Priority' and 'Service Level Agreement' are not necessarily one and the same thing. It is inconceivable that AOL would buy wholesale from ntl without a Service Level Agreement. However this SLA would probably cover off top level stuff, like overall availability of the network to AOL. On the other hand, I don't believe AOL is going to give its individual customers a SLA, so they are all effectively going to be in the same boat as NTL customers, with no priority over network access.
What I hope will happen is that some of the money NTL gets from AOL will go into improving the network to cope with the additional traffic. NTL would be stupid not to do this as if they oversubscribe the system any further, service will become so poor in some areas that customers will go elsewhere. And if AOL customers get a raw deal and start switching off, AOL will come knocking at NTL's door, whether or not there is a SLA covering individual customer experience.
Ignition
24-09-2003, 12:42
Originally posted by Defiant
I dont know NTL's setup or how they have setup the AOL users's but I'd guess for one it would be done through ip range's. I presume for instance they have different ranges to NTL users yes ?
Nope - modems use the same exact network and internal IP addresses as ntlworld ones. Customer equipment IPs are different, however that is irrelevant for this purpose.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Looks like the pro NTL mob are running out of excuses.
scastle, have a look at this
<snipped>
No excuses (assuming the "running out of excuses" comment was directed at me). I was just interested to know about the number of 150K users.
Thanks for answering that.
Undisputedtruth
24-09-2003, 23:26
Originally posted by scastle
No excuses (assuming the "running out of excuses" comment was directed at me). I was just interested to know about the number of 150K users.
Thanks for answering that.
N0 - the proNTL remark was not aimed at you. I know you're not interested in anti or pro NTL sides in any case.
I hope you find the links informative. Did you also notice how NTL refused to officially publish the breakdown of their bb figures? Signs of dishonesty here, using false information when it suits them. I mean customers on 128K cannot be defined as BB. So to say they are, is false. Oftel and ASA have already said 128K do not qualify as bb. NTl have a long way to go before they hit 1m customers on BB. ADSL were the first ones to reach the magical figure of 1m plus customers on broadband.
I mean customers on 128K cannot be defined as BB
It's been 150k for a good long while now, old boy, do try and keep up.
I don't particularly care what it's defined as, people like it, it sells extremely well, and it's far far better than dial up. It's also easy to upgrade to 600k or 1Mb, try upgrading your ADSL from 512k to 1Mb or 2Mb.
Undisputedtruth
25-09-2003, 00:03
Originally posted by BBKing
It's been 150k for a good long while now, old boy, do try and keep up.
I don't particularly care what it's defined as, people like it, it sells extremely well, and it's far far better than dial up. It's also easy to upgrade to 600k or 1Mb, try upgrading your ADSL from 512k to 1Mb or 2Mb.
150K has only been around for a some time, though not as long as you suggest. The main point I made in my post - cable are far from reaching the 1m plus customers. I'm simply correcting your misleading remark.
I think people like 150K because it is cheap and I hope all ADSL and cable providers take note of this.
Try upgrading NTL BB from . 600K to 2Mb :D :D :D
Why is it so difficult to upgrade or downgrade on ADSL?
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