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printerman
22-04-2005, 13:09
What should i do?
My boss has left and the directors have asked me to do his job but WILL NOT BUDGE on salary (ie i won't get any increase at all! (my boss was on 12k more than i am!!!)). So, i'm up to meeting number four now of them trying to persuade me and me saying show me the money(hehe) ....so where do i go from here? They are starting to wear me out. I have worked tirelessly over the last year and i seem to be getting nowhere
Stick to your guns, if he was worth 12k more for doing what they're asking you to do, why shouldn't you get it ??
Well if you are doing his job then you should be getting more money for it.
Couldn't you ask for a compromise? They will start to get tried, and may start looking elsewhere while you dont get anything. I mean, this will at least be a step up and good for your career and CV, Maybe if you get a smaller pay rise?
More responsibility = more money ... should be obvious to anyone with any sense.
If they are intending that you be acting "whatever", with an actual promotion (and the appropriate salary) if you prove able to fill the position, then it may be better to show willing.
It really depends on the company, I wouldn't accept any promises in most circumstances. However in my current role I have been promoted about a month ago without a rise, I got called into the office yesterday to be told I am having an increase.
I have however been in the situation many times before and seen others that have been promised the earth and got nothing. (ntl)
If they are not prepared to compromise and give you a definate staged increase, you have to make the decision. It could be worth taking the extra responsibility in order to enhance your CV whilst you look elsewhere. I took that route, but fortunately my gamble has been paid off with an out of the blue wage increase and suprise bonus.
I think it really depends on your gut feeling.
printerman
22-04-2005, 14:24
I have actually been given a structure now. with a 3month 9 month and 21 month review. the 21 month review puts me up to 28k, 7 less than my boss was getting.....i really enjoy working here. They want me to take a lot a responsability which is fine, but it just doesn't seem fair...they want me to be production manager and are still paying the design engineer who sits next to me 2K more.....
I would love to do the role but i just don't see why i should have to wait 21months to earn some decent money at last.
paulyoung666
22-04-2005, 14:33
name of the game nowadays , you have to prove yourself to get anywhere , the lass i work with is on less money than me for the same job , to get to my level she has to prove she can do it :mad:
What should i do?
My boss has left and the directors have asked me to do his job but WILL NOT BUDGE on salary (ie i won't get any increase at all! (my boss was on 12k more than i am!!!)). So, i'm up to meeting number four now of them trying to persuade me and me saying show me the money(hehe) ....so where do i go from here? They are starting to wear me out. I have worked tirelessly over the last year and i seem to be getting nowherehave you asked them for the reason why they don't wan't to pay you his salary?
paulyoung666
22-04-2005, 15:55
have you asked them for the reason why they don't wan't to pay you his salary?
or maybe it is a case of he was getting paid too much anyway :disturbd:
printerman
22-04-2005, 17:09
They won't budge cos they say they can't afford it....They tell me it was a blessing in disguise my boss left. THen they ak me to do it for free (almost!)
And no i'm not over paid.....underpaid actually.
paulyoung666
22-04-2005, 17:15
They won't budge cos they say they can't afford it....They tell me it was a blessing in disguise my boss left. THen they ak me to do it for free (almost!)
And no i'm not over paid.....underpaid actually.
how sure are you that you could get the money if you go elsewhere , and how sure are you that you could cope doing your ex bosses job , i aint being nasty , just throwing some things about for you to respond to :)
I have actually been given a structure now. with a 3month 9 month and 21 month review. the 21 month review puts me up to 28k, 7 less than my boss was getting.....i really enjoy working here. They want me to take a lot a responsability which is fine, but it just doesn't seem fair...they want me to be production manager and are still paying the design engineer who sits next to me 2K more.....
I would love to do the role but i just don't see why i should have to wait 21months to earn some decent money at last.
To be honest 28K for production manager is very poor even if they were paying it right now, in the company I work for some of the Test Engineers are earning more than that and design engineers upto 40K. It does seem these days that technical skills are sometimes paid higher than managers, (about time) I know that I was paid more than my immediate manager and I think it could be the case again since my rise. Sometimes moving to a technical management position can be a backward step for long term finances, it may however be worth taking that step if you feel it will do your longer term career prospects a lot of good for future vacancies advertised in other companies.
At the end of the day, only you can really assess the situation.
printerman
22-04-2005, 20:54
hhmmm thanks all. I know you all are expressing your opinion which is the whole point of the forum....i do think they are still being mean...the thing is, the arn't going to introduce a fibre optic process engineer (which is what i do)....they want me to do that in addtition to the new role..i think they are taking advantage....or at least trying too....
The problem i have is saying no.....how do i do that in a non agressive way(being northern) and actually get my point accross.
??
------------
in addition to the last post above i'm actually not a manager. I'm a qualified (i know it sounds poncy) process engineer. So they must think i have some qualities or they wouldn't ask in the first place.
jellybaby
22-04-2005, 21:03
you could put it across that if they don't intend replacing you, and expect you to fulfill both the managers roll and your current role, that they'll still be saving money by paying you his salary. In affect, they are going to be saving you current salary costs. They get the best of both worlds....saving money, and you doing 2 jobs
printerman
22-04-2005, 21:06
I've already tried that one.......on each of the other three meetings we've had.......no go......not interested......they have said thats what the pay is.......no discussion......
I'm starting to think the same as them...fair enough...ask someone else or employ someone else.....if they can get some one for NOTHING for a years salary then fine...if they can persuade someone else in place then fine too....i know i was first choice.
I really want the place to do well, thats the big problem...its a small place....one engineer, 10 shopfloor, two directors,,,,,,,but i'm not a mug.
what it comes down to in my view is this
1. Can you afford to leave if the worst comes to the worst?
2. Your ability to manage is not going to be 100% if you are unhappy how you are being treated.
3.Your loyalties have to lie more towards youself rather than the company.
4. Is the place going to do badly if you don't do it, and what will they do if you don't do it?
Pack it in and be an rov pilot/tech.......more money;)
printerman
22-04-2005, 21:31
hmm
1. Yes i could afford to leave but would rather not be in that position
2. I've discussed this point.If i'm not being treated (or payed) as a manager why sohuld i be one.
3.My loyties lie towards me....otherwise i'd be a push over.
4.I beleive they would do badly. Not trying to sound big headed but i deal with all technical shopfloor probs. As well as maintenance, i cover purchasing when that department has holidays and i cover (fully) the design engineer when on holiday as i use autocad...
one point i have to make is...no one covers ME when i'm on holiday.?!
hmm
one point i have to make is...no one covers ME when i'm on holiday.?!
So they CAN do without you? or does it all pile up till you get back?
My advice is ....just say no, you are quite happy with your contract as it stands
OH OHH It doesn't have a clause in there about doing someone elses job is there?
And ....Any sign of a union in this?
paulyoung666
22-04-2005, 21:37
snip /
no one covers ME when i'm on holiday.?!
this smacks of using you :Yikes:
my opinion only of course , i am in a similar sort of situation at the moment , then again i am using my current situation to my own ends , i know that sounds daft but unless you know my full story then you will not know what i am going on about :disturbd: , i reckon i am coming from the angle of you need to go where your head and heart tells you ;) :)
printerman
22-04-2005, 21:38
No, it really does just pile up....ive had new machinary taken out of boxes rather than GREASE the older machinary to keep production going..... no union and no mention of other jobs......
Well tell them you are not interested
paulyoung666
22-04-2005, 21:44
No, it really does just pile up....ive had new machinary taken out of boxes rather than GREASE the older machinary to keep production going..... no union and no mention of other jobs......
when you say no union , you can be a member of a union if you want to be ;)
Sounds like they really are taking the P, if they expect you to cover both your job and the (ex)manager's - unless you can work that to your own advantage.
The way it sounds, I'd suggests you DO think of a suitable escape route, if worst comes to worst, as it's sounding like it may become an unpleasant situation.
printerman
23-04-2005, 12:06
okay thanks all. I don't really konw how to approach this.....i don't want to **** them off, but i am willing to say no. I need to sit down and talk it through with both of them. So, how do i discuss this with getting narced......any tips on what i should be saying...i do need some help in this as its really bugging me and starting to wreck my whole weekend.
[QUOTE=Printerman580]okay thanks all. I don't really konw how to approach this.....i don't want to **** them off, but i am willing to say no. I need to sit down and talk it through with both of them. So, how do i discuss this with getting narced......any tips on what i should be saying...i do need some help in this as its really bugging me and starting to wreck my whole weekend.[/QUOTE
What you need to do is actually write down the key points that you need to make (as has been mentioned in the thread) and take the piece of paper with you and take notes on their responses.
One of the tips that someone has mentioned is when you start to get frustrated, imagine them sat in front of you naked, they don't seem so scary then:D
Have an early night and no dutch courage before the meeting.
printerman
23-04-2005, 15:06
Yes you are right...i need to have a list of good arguments and answers to the questions i answers i think they are going to give.....
printerman
25-04-2005, 18:30
Hi,thought i'd give you an update. Had a meeting this afternoon. I made a nice list of what my job contract was.....then what i was doing in addititon to that (without any complaints) since they took over .....and then the list of what they wanted me to do in addition (again)....
They did sort of see my argument and are going to have a discussion and possibly come back to me tomorrow..I explained that without any negotiation then the whole idea was dead in the water and that did not benefit either party...
So, not holding my breath but there you go.....
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