View Full Version : M25 Madness
I just got backfrom a trip round the M25. Miles of it was coned off into one lane. Dead slow moving traffic for miles with apparently nothing happening until I came across two guys miles down the 'works' strimming the central resrvation. Then futher along, the very same thing, this time with two or three guys sweeping the central reservation. Maybe it's just me being grumpy?! :mad:
bob_a_builder
08-04-2005, 07:30
based on the time of your post : would you have prefered they did it during the rush hour, say a monday morning or a friday evening ?
allieyoung666
08-04-2005, 07:43
I just got backfrom a trip round the M25. Miles of it was coned off into one lane. Dead slow moving traffic for miles with apparently nothing happening until I came across two guys miles down the 'works' strimming the central resrvation. Then futher along, the very same thing, this time with two or three guys sweeping the central reservation. Maybe it's just me being grumpy?! :mad:
we had that a couple of weeks ago on the A1, but it is litter picking!!!!!! And the right hand lane was shut for at least 3 miles!!!!! Why? I do not have a clue sorry!:erm: :erm:
The lane is shut to protect the people working on the roadside. It would have been coned off for a set distance before the area that they planned to work in, the planned work area itself and then a set distance after the work area. There are a lot of road workers seriously injured or even killed each year due to drivers not realising they are there or not giving them room to work so now-a-days they cone off the entire lane if necessary to protect them.
As for the M25 we never touch that road without checking the BBC travel (http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/travel/travelinfo/index.shtml),AA Travel (http://www.theaa.com/travelwatch/travel_news.jsp) and Highways Agency (http://www.highways.gov.uk/trafficinfo/) sites to see what roadworks, accidents etc are on-going as there are a lot of late night engineering projects ongoing at the moment.
...and junc 16 - 12 is still being done for the T5 terminal .... until Dec this year.
...and junc 16 - 12 is still being done for the T5 terminal .... until Dec this year.
And don't forget the widening of the M25 that's going on as well!
I'll be so glad when that's over with as I have to drive to Staines for work which is bad enough anyway!
Of course with 5 lanes, you'll still have 4 of them full of people daudling along doing 60 rather than sticking to lane 1
And don't forget the widening of the M25 that's going on as well!
I'll be so glad when that's over with as I have to drive to Staines for work which is bad enough anyway!
Of course with 5 lanes, you'll still have 4 of them full of people daudling along doing 60 rather than sticking to lane 1
Driving on the M25 AND working in Staines? Double sympathy methinks!
I used to use the M25 every day, and nowadays use it a fair bit, although infrequently. In the past 12 years that I know there has always been some kind of major roadworks on the section between Junctions 15 and 10. It amazes me how there can ALWAYS be something that needs doing on that stretch!
Wouldn't it be great to be in power, to put all these things to right...;)
Driving on the M25 AND working in Staines? Double sympathy methinks!
I used to use the M25 every day, and nowadays use it a fair bit, although infrequently. In the past 12 years that I know there has always been some kind of major roadworks on the section between Junctions 15 and 10. It amazes me how there can ALWAYS be something that needs doing on that stretch!
Wouldn't it be great to be in power, to put all these things to right...;)
I believe that when it was first completed, it already needed more lanes then they had built!
bob_a_builder
08-04-2005, 10:50
There are a lot of road workers seriously injured or even killed each year due to drivers not realising they are there or not giving them room
On a trip to Boston(US) sometime ago I noticed that every set of roadworks had a policeman/car assigned to them (people alway slow down at the sight of a police car) and I believe that any penalties as the result of any RTA/violation are doubled if in the vicinity of such roadworks.
I believe that when it was first completed, it already needed more lanes then they had built!
I read that too. I think it's because it was planned in the late 60's/Early 70's and they totally failed to account for a massive rise in vehicle use that occured in the early 80's.
And don't forget the widening of the M25 that's going on as well!
I'll be so glad when that's over with as I have to drive to Staines for work which is bad enough anyway!
Of course with 5 lanes, you'll still have 4 of them full of people daudling along doing 60 rather than sticking to lane 1
I thought the M25 was different to most motorways i nthe way that all lanes are treated the same so no lanes for overtaking etc no slower lanes, and with the variable speed limits 60mph sounds about right.. better to make slwosteady progress rather than no progress at all because ofweight of traffic caused by speeding up and slowing down and people changing lanes etc..
I thought the M25 was different to most motorways i nthe way that all lanes are treated the same so no lanes for overtaking etc no slower lanes, and with the variable speed limits 60mph sounds about right.. better to make slwosteady progress rather than no progress at all because ofweight of traffic caused by speeding up and slowing down and people changing lanes etc..
The lanes are the same as other motorways... ie left hand lane when possible, other laqnes for overtaking. The point about steady progress makes sense... except that not everyone drives at the maximum limit; add to that the problem that the slower drivers are often in the middle or outside lanes, and you get people undercutting etc, causing further problems. To be honest, a lot of the congestion on the M25, and other motorways, could be eased by sensible driving; too many people sit and hog lanes, resulting in other drivers getting angry and consequently driving badly.
I thought the M25 was different to most motorways i nthe way that all lanes are treated the same so no lanes for overtaking etc no slower lanes, and with the variable speed limits 60mph sounds about right.. better to make slwosteady progress rather than no progress at all because ofweight of traffic caused by speeding up and slowing down and people changing lanes etc..
No, all motorways are the same, lane one is for traffic, the other lanes are for over taking slow moving traffic.
The variable speed limit has been brought in because with heavy traffic, slowing the flow actually increases the average speed limit.
I remember when it first was introduced, used to practically fly plast heathrow, then everything would jam up just past the variable area!
MovedGoalPosts
08-04-2005, 11:23
I thought the M25 was different to most motorways i nthe way that all lanes are treated the same so no lanes for overtaking etc no slower lanes, and with the variable speed limits 60mph sounds about right.. better to make slwosteady progress rather than no progress at all because ofweight of traffic caused by speeding up and slowing down and people changing lanes etc..
No the principle of drive in the left hand lane, unless overtaking still applies.
In the variable speed limit areas, signs try to discourage frequent lane swapping, just to gain a notional advantage. When the variable limits are active, even the slow limited lorries maximum speed can be above the road limit. Thus all traffic in all lanes should be moving at a similar pace, with only safe gaps in front of each vehicle, as the limit is active to maintain free flow with road capacity having been reached.
In practice, it becomes a free for all.
If you want real time traffic info, get one of these (http://www.trafficmaster.co.uk/page.cfm?key=trafficmaster-yq). It's pricey but worth it if you drive a lot.
oh ok... luckilly i infrequently travel on the m25 well never nowadays...
Charlie_Bubble
08-04-2005, 11:58
I drive on possibly the worst stretch of the M25 to work and back every day. Junction 11 near Woking (Start of the widening/Terminal 5 roadworks) to junction 15 turnoff for Heathrow (M4, End of the works). This stretch of the M25, along with a few other sections, is in a different class from all other motorways and no normal rules of driving work.
It's a nice idea that every one drives at a steady pace and makes progress, but when you see the volume of traffic on this stretch you can bin that notion. When you come down the on-ramp and see 4 lanes of solid traffic not moving an inch most mornings, you're never going to be able to do that kind of thing and this lasts the whole 10 miles or so, save for a few streches a couple hundred metres long.
The main problem is that this section has so many major junctions on it where people try to stay in the fast lane as long as possible when exiting and get into the fast lane as soon as possible when joining. Meaning they have to weave across all the lanes in a very short space of time, making everyone else have to brake and allow them.
It actually moved a lot quicker than normal when they had the clockwise contraflow of 2 lanes, because it stopped people being able to join those 2 lanes, so the kept a steady pace, apart from when there was an accident.
After almost 4 years of doing this journey I've evolved a certain set of habits/tactics/strategies, call them what you will, for doing this journey and they do take time off the journey when it's bad, but basically, if you can avoid this stretch at rush hour times, you should. :)
The M25 was only one of the four original London orbital motorways to be built - the other would have been through the metropolitan area (one in fact would have gone along the railway line 300 yards away from here, which would have improved the area no end (NOT). Unsurprisingly those were abandoned in the mid-1970s after public outcry - not many people in London would have lived far away from an eight-lane concrete elevated highway.
The result is that the M25 has all the traffic from these (a lot of people drive out to the M25 and go round rather than bludgen through traffic in town), plus it's both a local bypass for bits of London and towns like Leatherhead and Staines, and it has to be a through route for traffic from the North to the channel (and airports). Not surprising it gets a bit snarled up from time to time.
[Off topic a bit]
The history of the abortive motorways is fascinating - there's evidence of bits of land being left for them until quite recently, and redevelopment being done around where they would go. Further reading follows:
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/features/barrier.html
http://www.cbrd.co.uk/histories/ringway2/
http://www.btinternet.com/~roads/lon_mway/index.html
There's a rather unpleasant development in Eltham where there's a suspiciously wide gap, too - see if you can spot it:
Aerial view (http://www.multimap.com/map/photo.cgi?client=public&X=541000&Y=175000&scale=10000&width=700&height=400&gride=&gridn=&lang=&db=freegaz)
SMHarman
08-04-2005, 12:30
I believe that when it was first completed, it already needed more lanes then they had built!Actually when it was designed the planners said they needed to build a 4 lane road. The govt. to save money built three lanes, of course it is much much more expensive to widen 3-4 than it would have been to build 4 in the first place. And virtually impossible in parts where bridges etc need replacing.
Actually when it was designed the planners said they needed to build a 4 lane road. The govt. to save money built three lanes, of course it is much much more expensive to widen 3-4 than it would have been to build 4 in the first place. And virtually impossible in parts where bridges etc need replacing.
That was it! thanks for reminding me :)
SMHarman
08-04-2005, 12:35
<snip>
There's a rather unpleasant development in Eltham where there's a suspiciously wide gap, too - see if you can spot it:
Aerial view (http://www.multimap.com/map/photo.cgi?client=public&X=541000&Y=175000&scale=10000&width=700&height=400&gride=&gridn=&lang=&db=freegaz)
No I can't - care to share?
ian@huth
08-04-2005, 12:51
No I can't - care to share?
Is it top to bottom from where it says hotels and going through the leisure centre?
Ian's got it - if you move the view north a bit you see where the A2 turns north towards the Blackwall Tunnel - the original plan as far as I can work out was for the main road to be north-south with the A2 crossing roughly at right-angles. There's rather an odd junction there that looks like it has more land than it needs.
The north-south road would have continued down through the gap towards the A20 and then swing round to the west.
Edit: Ah, I've found the original map:
http://www.cbrd.co.uk/histories/ringway2/06.jpg
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