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STONEISLAND
21-03-2005, 12:42
Now I know this has been done before but I dont care theres loads of new members whos opinion counts also.

My contract with NTL has ended and I'm thinking weather to continue the contract or try sky.

What do you think?

punky
21-03-2005, 12:49
I have never had Sky myself, but I have seen it around my friends house.

It is all round better. Crashes less, better picture, faster, more features (like Sky Sports Extra, and additional interactive content)

Admittedly, since I have got my Samsung box, a lot of these problems have got much better, but I don't think they are as good as Sky.

TheBlueRaja
21-03-2005, 12:57
Get Sky+ it rocks!

The EPG is also like a rocket by comparison to NTL and you can easily see what's on up to 7 days in front, the picture is far better.

All in all it is better in every aspect except these three below...

1) The implementation of favourite channels is not as good and NTL, you have to cycle through them as opposed to selecting the channel from a hand menu.

2) The fan on the back of certain Sky+ boxes can be quite loud - there are workarounds though.

3) Broadband - debatable point - but I would argue its easier to get broadband via NTL and although capped you get faster downloads.

Either way - given all the above I would take Sky+ every time.

Graham
21-03-2005, 13:27
Well I'm about to move and I'm going to switch over from NTL cable to Sky+ for TV, although I'm going to keep NTL for phone and broadband.

Derek
21-03-2005, 13:27
Agreed that Sky+ is absolutely fantastic.

The only other thing I can currently see in Ntl's favour is the VoD. If it takes hold and gets more content or packaged content then possibly I could be back but for now it's Sky+ all the way.

STONEISLAND
21-03-2005, 13:35
Well I'm about to move and I'm going to switch over from NTL cable to Sky+ for TV, although I'm going to keep NTL for phone and broadband.

By the sounds of it I will do the same. :tu: :D

gary_580
21-03-2005, 14:11
Comparing Cable Tv with Sky isnt really a fair comparison on the basis that Cable TV providers have to buy from Sky and as a result have to offer sweeteners like the so called free line rental.

Stephen
21-03-2005, 14:47
Well I love sky +, and the interactive availability, however in NTLs favour there is VOD, I like the TVguide better(I can still see the TV will I am browsing) even though it only does 3 days. I also love the ability to re-arrange the channel order to my liking. to be honest I very rarely get any problems now with freezing or any thing like that.

Electrolyte01
21-03-2005, 14:48
I'm going for Sky here. Had Sky ever since the first systems came out (which had 2 boxes, one to receive the signal from the satelite and the other to change the channels) and just loved it. Sky+ is even better, the ability to record shows and listen to the broadcasts in 5.1 is just fantastic.

paulyoung666
21-03-2005, 15:25
Comparing Cable Tv with Sky isnt really a fair comparison on the basis that Cable TV providers have to buy from Sky and as a result have to offer sweeteners like the so called free line rental.


dont think the op is bothered about the price , more of a case of which is better quality , which in my opinion is sky :tu:

STONEISLAND
21-03-2005, 15:45
http://www.sky.com/ordersky/channelpackages/

Just to get this right the £33 a month package is the one where you can record on the box plus watch the channels when you want
eg film starts a 10pm but you can request to watch at 6pm?
__________________

Sky+ box: Only £99

Sky+ 160 box: £399

Sky+ subscription: free while you subscribe to two or more of Sky Premium channels i.e. Sky Sports 1, Sky Sports 2, Sky Movies 1 and Sky Movies 2, (otherwise £10 a month)

Whats the diffrense?

punky
21-03-2005, 16:11
I would like to know though.... When we had Sky Analogue before we switched to NTL digital, the picture quality broke up quite often in bad weather.... Whats Sky Digital like compared with Sky Analogue for performance in bad weather?

paulyoung666
21-03-2005, 17:30
http://www.sky.com/ordersky/channelpackages/

Just to get this right the £33 a month package is the one where you can record on the box plus watch the channels when you want
eg film starts a 10pm but you can request to watch at 6pm?
__________________

Sky+ box: Only £99

Sky+ 160 box: £399

Sky+ subscription: free while you subscribe to two or more of Sky Premium channels i.e. Sky Sports 1, Sky Sports 2, Sky Movies 1 and Sky Movies 2, (otherwise £10 a month)

Whats the diffrense?


you get sky mutistart , start every so often during an evening :)

size of the hard drive if i have read you right :)


I would like to know though.... When we had Sky Analogue before we switched to NTL digital, the picture quality broke up quite often in bad weather.... Whats Sky Digital like compared with Sky Analogue for performance in bad weather?

i personally have had very little problems with picture breakup in 5 odd years , a lot of the problems come about through poor installation :(

STONEISLAND
21-03-2005, 17:48
Thanks

punky
21-03-2005, 17:48
i personally have had very little problems with picture breakup in 5 odd years , a lot of the problems come about through poor installation :(

Thanx mate.

I hope someone from NTL DTV is watching this thread.... It must be really embarassing for them (especially on a NTL majority forum). Hopefully it might spur them on to make changes.

I would have Sky Digital, but when I tried to upgrade from Sky Analogue the installer said it couldn't be done as he couldn't get a clear enough signal, so we went to NTL and put up with it. Reading BlueRaja's other thread though, maybe I should have persevered with different installers. I don't think the official wanted to go near the roof.

Graham
21-03-2005, 17:56
Sky+ box: Only £99

Sky+ 160 box: £399

Whats the diffrense?

AIUI the only difference between the regular Sky+ box and the 160 is the former allows 20 hours of storage, the latter averages 80 hours.

But I believe the only difference is the size of the hard drives (40GB vs 120GB) however since you can buy a 120GB drive for less than £50 and install it yourself without much hassle, the 160 box seems excessively expensive.

paulyoung666
21-03-2005, 17:57
:tu: , there is definitely a big problem with the pricing of sky+ 160 i reckon :disturbd:

TheBlueRaja
21-03-2005, 18:32
Yeah agreed - but to be honest I have the 40GB version and have no problems with regard to disk space.

If I need to I will chuck in a larger hard disk myself - 400 quid for 160 gig is ridiculous.

TheBlueRaja
22-03-2005, 00:31
I can still see the TV will I am browsing

Good point that - i do miss that feature as well in Sky.

ian@huth
22-03-2005, 00:43
Originally Posted by DarthYoda
I can still see the TV will I am browsingGood point that - i do miss that feature as well in Sky.The only time that I use the Sky EPG is when I am selecting programmes to record or when starting the playback of them. I tend not to watch too much live TV these days but record what I want to watch on my Sky+ box and watch it when it is convenient. I use Digiguide (see signature) to plan my viewing, there's nothing to beat it, and then set up the Sky+ box.

STONEISLAND
22-03-2005, 11:40
With Sky + I take it you can record over old stuff that you have all ready recorded. If this is the case it would not be worth getting the bigger drive surley?

ian@huth
22-03-2005, 12:52
With Sky + I take it you can record over old stuff that you have all ready recorded. If this is the case it would not be worth getting the bigger drive surley?You certainly can. :) The only time that the standard drive is a problem is when you are wanting to record more than 20 hours of TV whilst you are on holiday. That 20 hours isn't set in stone though and is dependent on the bitrate of the channel being recorded. Some people have claimed to have recorded as much as 35 hours on the standard Sky+.

There are a number of features that I like about Sky+. The ability to fast forward at 30x speed through adverts whilst still being able to see the picture. The option where to start viewing the recording, either from the start, from the position last viewed or at a user definable number of minutes after the start. The last one is particularly useful if you record a football match where the programme starts way befor the kick off. You can either watch all the pre-match talk or set the start to be near the kick off time. Say the programme starts at 03:00pm and kick off is at 04:00pm you can tell the box to start replay after 60 minutes and cut out all the pre-match cr@p. I have the Sky+ box set to buffer 60 minutes which means that if I switch the TV on and a programme is showing that the box is tuned into I can record that programme from the start if it was less than an hour before switching the TV on and watch the part I missed.

Graham
22-03-2005, 14:07
With Sky + I take it you can record over old stuff that you have all ready recorded. If this is the case it would not be worth getting the bigger drive surley?

It depends on how much you "buffer" or "time shift" recordings.

There have been occasions where I've had three tapes, all recorded at LP so containing around 18 hours of recordings that I haven't felt like watching at the time, but which I will watch at *some* time.

It also lets you store up all the episodes of a series etc for later transfer to another media.

Of course if you don't watch TV in this way, then maybe you don't need the larger HDD.

moffmeister
07-04-2005, 17:01
Sky is fantastic, but due to a pis-poor installation (where half of it wasn't even wired in) we occasionally get a picure break-up. Other than that, SUPERB!!!!

Nugget
07-04-2005, 17:07
We've got Sky and occasionally have picture break-up. Having said that, it only happens when it's absolutely hurling with rain - other than that, we've had no problem :tu:

gary_580
07-04-2005, 17:12
dont think the op is bothered about the price , more of a case of which is better quality , which in my opinion is sky :tu:

define quality!

price is part of the quality equation

Chris
07-04-2005, 17:25
Now I know this has been done before but I dont care theres loads of new members whos opinion counts also.

My contract with NTL has ended and I'm thinking weather to continue the contract or try sky.

What do you think?

On paper, $ky beats NTL convincingly. But when I compare only those services I actually use ... well I never thought I'd say it, but for me NTL is the clear winner.

NTL's EPG is streets ahead of Sky's. You can sort it to put your favourites at the top, and when you go channel hopping + or - the STB goes through them via your favourites first. Sky's favourites option is pathetic - you can only cycle up the now-and-next pane by repeatedly hitting the blue button, you can't scan back down the list and you can't channel-hop from favourite to favourite.

NTL's EPG allows you to see a synopsis of any programme you can display in the now-and-next pane, while you continue to watch the programme that's on. Sky will only give you a synopsis of the programme now showing on the channel you're viewing.

When you go to the full-screen programme schedule guide, NTL allows you to continue to see a small window showing the programme you were watching, and you can still hear it. Sky is still stuck playing you dreadful lift muzak. Admittedly you can only look three days ahead on NTL compared to a week with Sky. However in terms of the features I actually use day-to-day, that's not much of a problem for me.

Sky's interactive service is light-years ahead of NTL but I find now I have Sky I barely use the red button more than I did with NTL.

What I miss most of all though, is the channels in the base pack. You get a lot more channels on NTL than you do on Sky, including Sky Mix and E4 (the only ones worth having, actually).

STONEISLAND
07-04-2005, 17:35
Arrrrh but what about Sky + ?

Chris
07-04-2005, 17:39
Arrrrh but what about Sky + ?

Well, NTL has no response to that. But I did say comparing 'only those services I actually use' ... I've never used Sky+, TiVo or anything of the kind, and I don't particularly intend to. I wouldn't have taken an NTL version of the service, had they ever offered it to me.

STONEISLAND
16-05-2005, 12:24
Hate to :bump: But I have SKY + now and it rocks :D

Thanks for advise Guys, and a choice well made I think its great a must have :tu:

ian@huth
16-05-2005, 13:27
Hate to :bump: But I have SKY + now and it rocks :D

Thanks for advise Guys, and a choice well made I think its great a must have :tu:It rocks even better if you upgrade the hard drive to give more recording time for such times as when you are on holiday.

One good feature is that you can download a PPV movie but you don't pay for it unless you watch it. Great if you are unsure of your plans and want to cover a few possibilities.

orangebird
16-05-2005, 13:54
I'm with Towny, for all the same reasons.... Especially the 'info' button issue.... Why on earth won't Skys epg display info for programs other than the one you're watching.

And one extra reason - my red button works!

Stuart
16-05-2005, 14:03
I'm with Towny as welll (oo eer)..

One thing I don't understand. Why is Sky +'s EPG limited to a week? NTL's reason for limiting their EPG to three days (or whatever it is now) was that the early Pace boxes don't have enough storage for more than that (they only have a few meg of memory). Sky + has (at least) a 40 gig hard drive. Why can't they store the EPG data on that?

IMO, TiVo has the best EPG, and is the only one comparable to Digiguide.

ian@huth
16-05-2005, 14:09
I'm with Towny, for all the same reasons.... Especially the 'info' button issue.... Why on earth won't Skys epg display info for programs other than the one you're watching.

And one extra reason - my red button works!I use the EPG only to set the programmes that I want to record on my Sky+ box which I then watch at a time convenient for me. For deciding what programmes to watch and get all the info about them I use DigiGuide. As many people are finding out and reporting, Sky+ is the best way to watch TV and DigiGuide is the best source for deciding what to watch. Give them both a try, you won't regret it.

As for red buttons, it's not just whether they work or not, it's what is available when you press them.
__________________

I'm with Towny as welll (oo eer)..

One thing I don't understand. Why is Sky +'s EPG limited to a week? NTL's reason for limiting their EPG to three days (or whatever it is now) was that the early Pace boxes don't have enough storage for more than that (they only have a few meg of memory). Sky + has (at least) a 40 gig hard drive. Why can't they store the EPG data on that?

IMO, TiVo has the best EPG, and is the only one comparable to Digiguide.The problem with storing the EPG on the hard drive could be that this is updated very frequently on Sky, not just once a day. You only have to see how Sky+ changes recording times when some unforseen event alters schedules sometimes only minutes before the programme you want is due to start.

jtwn
16-05-2005, 17:06
Had a mate who changed from sky+ to cable after moving back to a cabled area, has to be the biggest anti-ntl person in existence but admitted that he doesn't get the interference and some weird colouring issue and general dodginess with ntl that Sky seems suceptible to.

I can't say Sky+ appeals, I'd rather a VoD catchup type service. If i'm going to record somethingto keep, its going to mean its for archiving, ie not stuck on a hard drive.

orangebird
16-05-2005, 17:40
I use the EPG only to set the programmes that I want to record on my Sky+ box which I then watch at a time convenient for me. For deciding what programmes to watch and get all the info about them I use DigiGuide. As many people are finding out and reporting, Sky+ is the best way to watch TV and DigiGuide is the best source for deciding what to watch. Give them both a try, you won't regret it.

I really don't watch enough TV to worry about recording things/missing programmes etc. Adverts don't bother me much and if I go on holiday, I don't care about what's on TV back home to sit down for hours after trying to watch it all. :shrug:

As for red buttons, it's not just whether they work or not, it's what is available when you press them.
__________________

snip.

I get email, sms via tv, games, interactive for things like wimbledon and Big Brother (including the ability to vote), and (limited) access to the web. :tu:

Stuart
16-05-2005, 18:06
=ian@huthAs for red buttons, it's not just whether they work or not, it's what is available when you press them.
__________________

snip.

I get email, sms via tv, games, interactive for things like wimbledon and Big Brother (including the ability to vote), and (limited) access to the web. :tu:

Agreed. That's pretty much all we use interactive for at home. TBH, I haven't seen anything on any TV based interactive service that has made me think "Ooh, I must get that service". Sure, it is nice to be able to watch different stories on the news, or different angles on sports shows, but that's not actually something I really miss when it's not available.

Jules
16-05-2005, 18:10
Even though I wish cable did the + thingy I have voted for NTL because I had nothing but trouble with Sky :(

ian@huth
16-05-2005, 18:20
I really don't watch enough TV to worry about recording things/missing programmes etc. Adverts don't bother me much and if I go on holiday, I don't care about what's on TV back home to sit down for hours after trying to watch it all. :shrug:Used to be the same but not being able to get about much alters your priorities. The ability to watch what you want, when you want, in broadcast quality is one of the big advantages of Sky+.

I get email, sms via tv, games, interactive for things like wimbledon and Big Brother (including the ability to vote), and (limited) access to the web. :tu:Football enthusiasts in particular have had a much better selection of games to watch via Sky's red button.

At the end of the day we all have different needs and pick the platform which best provides these.

ls129
01-06-2005, 17:16
Recently moved to a new flat. In the previous flat I had Sky. The new flat is temporary and Telewest was already instaled so we chose not to go through the hassle of setting up the Sky dish and arguing with the landlord.

I am shocked by the poor quality of the Telewest video signal!!! and out of frustration i'd like to share my ranting on the web so that other suckers don't fall for the same false advertisement trap.

Colours - Sky vs. Telewest is like a DVD (Sky) vs. an old NTSC video cassette recording (Telewest). Sky colours are bright and crisp. Telewest colours are dull and look like an MPEG movie downloaded from edonkey and played on TV through a PS2.

Shape - The left and right boundries of the picture are trimmed!!! believe it or not!! I can't stand watching TV and having 25% of the image missing!!

Channels - Who the f*k cares about channels when you suffer watching TV!! In any case I think the Sky basic package is more comprehensive then Telewest. I only watch the BBC, discovery, MTV and extreme sports anyway. PPV on Telewest has very old movies compared to Sky (anyway, i'd rather rent a DVD or download something then get a trimmed colorless signal from these mo-fo's).


It's truely remarkable that Telewest are in business when you get so much more out of Sky. Then again, the crazy-frog campaign makes 10m/week so I guess advertisement is more reliable then people's intelligence.

LS

Chris
01-06-2005, 17:24
Recently moved to a new flat. In the previous flat I had Sky. The new flat is temporary and Telewest was already instaled so we chose not to go through the hassle of setting up the Sky dish and arguing with the landlord.

I am shocked by the poor quality of the Telewest video signal!!! and out of frustration i'd like to share my ranting on the web so that other suckers don't fall for the same false advertisement trap.

Colours - Sky vs. Telewest is like a DVD (Sky) vs. an old NTSC video cassette recording (Telewest). Sky colours are bright and crisp. Telewest colours are dull and look like an MPEG movie downloaded from edonkey and played on TV through a PS2.

Shape - The left and right boundries of the picture are trimmed!!! believe it or not!! I can't stand watching TV and having 25% of the image missing!!

Channels - Who the f*k cares about channels when you suffer watching TV!! In any case I think the Sky basic package is more comprehensive then Telewest. I only watch the BBC, discovery, MTV and extreme sports anyway. PPV on Telewest has very old movies compared to Sky (anyway, i'd rather rent a DVD or download something then get a trimmed colorless signal from these mo-fo's).


It's truely remarkable that Telewest are in business when you get so much more out of Sky. Then again, the crazy-frog campaign makes 10m/week so I guess advertisement is more reliable then people's intelligence.

LS

I can't comment on your picture quality issues but I assure you, the $ky starter pack has next to nothing in it so Telewest cannot possibly be worse in that respect.

P.S - please don't post identical stuff multiple times.

STONEISLAND
01-06-2005, 18:04
Recently moved to a new flat. In the previous flat I had Sky. The new flat is temporary and Telewest was already instaled so we chose not to go through the hassle of setting up the Sky dish and arguing with the landlord.

I am shocked by the poor quality of the Telewest video signal!!! and out of frustration i'd like to share my ranting on the web so that other suckers don't fall for the same false advertisement trap.

Colours - Sky vs. Telewest is like a DVD (Sky) vs. an old NTSC video cassette recording (Telewest). Sky colours are bright and crisp. Telewest colours are dull and look like an MPEG movie downloaded from edonkey and played on TV through a PS2.

Shape - The left and right boundries of the picture are trimmed!!! believe it or not!! I can't stand watching TV and having 25% of the image missing!!

Channels - Who the f*k cares about channels when you suffer watching TV!! In any case I think the Sky basic package is more comprehensive then Telewest. I only watch the BBC, discovery, MTV and extreme sports anyway. PPV on Telewest has very old movies compared to Sky (anyway, i'd rather rent a DVD or download something then get a trimmed colorless signal from these mo-fo's).


It's truely remarkable that Telewest are in business when you get so much more out of Sky. Then again, the crazy-frog campaign makes 10m/week so I guess advertisement is more reliable then people's intelligence.

LS

Just wanted to say :welcome:

Stuart
01-06-2005, 18:10
<snip>
Channels - Who the f*k cares about channels when you suffer watching TV!! In any case I think the Sky basic package is more comprehensive then Telewest. I only watch the BBC, discovery, MTV and extreme sports anyway. PPV on Telewest has very old movies compared to Sky (anyway, i'd rather rent a DVD or download something then get a trimmed colorless signal from these mo-fo's).

Haven't checked recently, but last time I did check, Front Row (who provide PPV for Telewest and NTL) had the same movies Sky Box Office did. I have to admit, I never nother with PPV movies though. By the time any movie I want to see comes on TV, then I will either have seen it and decided I don't like it, or if I do, I will have already bought it.


Welcome to the site BTW.

mdean
10-06-2005, 14:38
Arrrrh but what about Sky + ?

Sky + is propriatory rubbish which locks you into sky- a very bad idea- Do not touch it. Buy something which will work with all systems such as a DVDR

All NTL need to do is
1) Speed up the EPG - If I want to check ahead more than a couple of hours I always use the sky epg
2) Align the channel numbers- It is pathetic that any one channel does not have the same number on all 3 platforms

Neil
10-06-2005, 14:42
Sky + is propriatory rubbish which locks you into sky- a very bad idea- Do not touch it. Buy something which will work with all systems such as a DVDR

Does/can a DVD-R be set to record a whole series at the touch of a button (like Sky +)?

All NTL need to do is
1) Speed up the EPG - If I want to check ahead more than a couple of hours I always use the sky epg
2) Align the channel numbers- It is pathetic that any one channel does not have the same number on all 3 platforms

So Sky is not quite the 'proprietory rubbish' that you suggest then is it? ;)

mdean
10-06-2005, 14:47
Does/can a DVD-R be set to record a whole series at the touch of a button (like Sky +)?



So Sky is not quite the 'proprietory rubbish' that you suggest then is it? ;)

It is because if you do not subscribe to sky it records nothing. It is IMHO very foolish to lock yourself to one platform with your choice of recording device. Those who rave about it never think in whose interest it is for you to be locked in - not always the individual subscriber

Neil
10-06-2005, 14:51
It is because if you do not subscribe to sky it records nothing. It is IMHO very foolish to lock yourself to one platform with your choice of recording device. Those who rave about it never think in whose interest it is for you to be locked in - not always the individual subscriber

I don't follow you...:confused:

If Sky+ does what you need it to do (record the programs that you tell it to), then what's so bad about that? :shrug:

Also-what about my question of whether a DVD-R can record a whole series at the touch of a button?

dilli-theclaw
10-06-2005, 14:53
I've got NTL - and (now) sky+
(and a dvd recorder as it happens)

I don't like NTL - and if I was PAYING for it would have got rid of it ages ago.

Even though I've had sky+ for only a week now I think it's pretty good.

I only copy what I want onto dvd. The series link is also pretty good.

ian@huth
10-06-2005, 15:02
It is because if you do not subscribe to sky it records nothing. It is IMHO very foolish to lock yourself to one platform with your choice of recording device. Those who rave about it never think in whose interest it is for you to be locked in - not always the individual subscriberIt still operates as a standard Sky digibox if you don't subscribe, but I for one do subscribe. I don't mind being locked in because Sky+ gives me exactly what I bought the box for, something which neither NTL nor TW can do. I don't think that I am foolish for spending my money on something that meets my requirements and I am perfectly happy with.

Graham
10-06-2005, 15:02
So Sky is not quite the 'proprietory rubbish' that you suggest then is it? ;)

It is because if you do not subscribe to sky it records nothing.

Err, but if you don't subscribe to NTL then you don't get anything apart from the basic terrestrial channels either!

It is IMHO very foolish to lock yourself to one platform with your choice of recording device. Those who rave about it never think in whose interest it is for you to be locked in - not always the individual subscriber

Sorry, but I *do* "rave about" Sky+ and I *did* consider whether it was in my interest before I signed up to it.

If I were to re-sign up to NTL I would still have a minimum contract period etc "locking me in" to their service, which is, of course, to their benefit, not mine.

I can record stuff off the Sky+ box if I want to keep it permanently and frankly I don't consider the 99 quid it cost to be too onerous for the services it gives me (especially those like Series Link, the red button and a working EPG that aren't available through NTL)

Neil
10-06-2005, 15:04
It still operates as a standard Sky digibox if you don't subscribe, but I for one do subscribe. I don't mind being locked in because Sky+ gives me exactly what I bought the box for, something which neither NTL nor TW can do. I don't think that I am foolish for spending my money on something that meets my requirements and I am perfectly happy with.
Thanks Ian, I thought it was only me that thought that way.... :erm:

mdean
11-06-2005, 11:24
Err, but if you don't subscribe to NTL then you don't get anything apart from the basic terrestrial channels either!



Sorry, but I *do* "rave about" Sky+ and I *did* consider whether it was in my interest before I signed up to it.

If I were to re-sign up to NTL I would still have a minimum contract period etc "locking me in" to their service, which is, of course, to their benefit, not mine.

I can record stuff off the Sky+ box if I want to keep it permanently and frankly I don't consider the 99 quid it cost to be too onerous for the services it gives me (especially those like Series Link, the red button and a working EPG that aren't available through NTL)

Effectively you are writing off the £99 because you are saying that you might change service provider and at that point you would dump the box.

It is logical to an extent - My logic is different I would consider it a piece of kit to replace the VCR - which works with sky/ntl/freeview and analogue I would want the new piece of kit to do the same - maximising my flexibility- not locking me to a single source of programmes to record. So your analogy with the NTL box is wrong - It is with the VCR which will work with all feeds

Gimmicks like series link and pausing live TV are just that - and I left Sky (as a subscriber) to get away from the damn red button, and it remains absent on most channels- esp Sky sports which I often record. That is why NTL cable beats sky at the moment.

BSB are pushing Sky + (and subsidisig it) to lock people in - Nothing wrong with that as a business strategy - But people don't seem to be able to see it for that

ian@huth
11-06-2005, 13:43
Effectively you are writing off the £99 because you are saying that you might change service provider and at that point you would dump the box.

It is logical to an extent - My logic is different I would consider it a piece of kit to replace the VCR - which works with sky/ntl/freeview and analogue I would want the new piece of kit to do the same - maximising my flexibility- not locking me to a single source of programmes to record. So your analogy with the NTL box is wrong - It is with the VCR which will work with all feeds

Gimmicks like series link and pausing live TV are just that - and I left Sky (as a subscriber) to get away from the damn red button, and it remains absent on most channels- esp Sky sports which I often record. That is why NTL cable beats sky at the moment.

BSB are pushing Sky + (and subsidisig it) to lock people in - Nothing wrong with that as a business strategy - But people don't seem to be able to see it for thatI consider my Sky+ box as a piece of kit that allows me to watch what I want, when I want, in full broadcast quality and with a very easy ability to set up. What you call gimmicks I call very useful features that I want.

Now I could go along with your ideas and buy a video recorder and subscribe to NTL in order to get what you consider is a far better system that isn't locked into a single source of programmes to record. I have a video recorder and did have NTL TV but left NTL because of the quality of reception which they never could fix on a permanent basis. My Sky reception has been perfect for 5/6 years in all types of weather. The video recordings are always of a far inferior quality to recordings made on the Sky+ system. The video recorder is nothing like as easy to set up as a Sky+ recording. If programme times change for recordings already set up the Sky+ system usually records them in full at the new times but the video recordings usually don't. I can set recordings for programmes that are more than three days away on Sky+ but could never do this with NTL. I was recently away for a couple of weeks and my Sky+ box recorded everything I wanted during that time. A NTL box with video recorder could not have done that.

Summed up, I am more than happy with my Sky+ system with a normal Sky digibox on multiroom. I might be locked in but I am locked in to what I consider the best system by far for my needs. If you are happy with an inferior system then good for you. :)

bdav
11-06-2005, 14:29
Comparing Cable Tv with Sky isnt really a fair comparison on the basis that Cable TV providers have to buy from Sky and as a result have to offer sweeteners like the so called free line rental.

How does that make any difference? Sympathy for the cable cos having to rent the channels from Sky shouldn't have any part of it - thats their problem. You're paying for an end-user service.
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It still operates as a standard Sky digibox if you don't subscribe, but I for one do subscribe. I don't mind being locked in because Sky+ gives me exactly what I bought the box for, something which neither NTL nor TW can do. I don't think that I am foolish for spending my money on something that meets my requirements and I am perfectly happy with.

I thought you could still record the FTA channels? And if you dont pay the extra for the Sky+ part, you can still record, but not with 2 tuners(watch+rec), as the Sky+ fee is basicaly allowing you to recieve 2 channels at the same time, like if you were to buy a new box, you would have to pay £10/month to duplicate the channels

Graham
11-06-2005, 14:31
If I were to re-sign up to NTL I would still have a minimum contract period etc "locking me in" to their service, which is, of course, to their benefit, not mine.

frankly I don't consider the 99 quid it cost to be too onerous for the services it gives me

Effectively you are writing off the £99 because you are saying that you might change service provider and at that point you would dump the box.

Who says I would "dump the box"? Not me.

If (as I believe is possible) it still receives the Free to Air channels, it may be worth keeping, alternatively I might try to flog it on eBay or to a friend.

Even if I did "dump it" if I'd had it for eg three years then I could "write down" the value of it by £33 each year which is about 60p a week, hardly a great loss.

My logic is different I would consider it a piece of kit to replace the VCR - which works with sky/ntl/freeview and analogue I would want the new piece of kit to do the same - maximising my flexibility- not locking me to a single source of programmes to record. So your analogy with the NTL box is wrong - It is with the VCR which will work with all feeds

But unless you sign up to both NTL and Sky you're only going to *have* a single source (plus terrestrial) to record anyway!

Gimmicks like series link and pausing live TV are just that

Sorry, but no they're not gimmicks as far as I'm concerned, they are useful features which I use on a regular basis. To me a gimmick is something that looks and sounds good but is never actually of any use (NTL's EPG comes to mind!)

- and I left Sky (as a subscriber) to get away from the damn red button, and it remains absent on most channels- esp Sky sports which I often record. That is why NTL cable beats sky at the moment.

For you, maybe.

BSB are pushing Sky + (and subsidisig it) to lock people in - Nothing wrong with that as a business strategy - But people don't seem to be able to see it for that

Personally I *can* see it for that and I'm well aware of what I signed up to.

bdav
11-06-2005, 14:40
Definative awnswer if you want to throw money at the situation....

Build a Windows media center pc...... No need to use any cr*ppy STB interfaces, no red button junk - Propper internet interactive content. Burn anything onto a DVD, easy interfece, and a music/video/picture library! If you build one, its no more expensive than Sky+160.

Problem solved!