Use of apostrophes [Archive]

hansi

21-08-2003, 18:49

Apparently a recent survey revealed that the great british public do not know the difference between its and it's and what apostrophes actually mean. May I go one stage further. Let's try and find what's happening to the letter "g" at the end of words especially on television. The two worst offenders, in my opinion are Sam Delaney who is a Channel 5 reporter and TV soccer pundit Trevor Brookin (sic)!!! Has anyone else noticed this change in our language?

Russ

21-08-2003, 18:55

Not to mention those 'certain' people who pronounce 'us' as 'uz' :grind:

Escapee

21-08-2003, 19:09

hansi saidApparently a recent survey revealed that the great british public do not know the difference between its and it's

That would be me then :eek:

I am OK at writing serious letters or reports, but put me into abbreviation/common mode and I have trouble with words like.

Haven't

Dont

it's

won't

They confuse me:)

Russ

21-08-2003, 19:11

The worst are supermarkets, with signs like "Fresh Apple's" :afire:

Escapee

21-08-2003, 19:23

Russ D saidwith signs like "Fresh Apple's

Perhaps they are French ones:D

altis

21-08-2003, 19:50

Check out The Apostrophe Protection Soceity...
http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/

Oh, and er...
http://www.nthellworld.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43324

Ramrod

21-08-2003, 20:12

Originally posted by Escapee
hansi said

That would be me then :eek:

I am OK at writing serious letters or reports, but put me into abbreviation/common mode and I have trouble with words like.

Haven't

Dont

it's

won't

They confuse me:)
I had problems with this point (English isn't my first language) but then my wife pointed out to me that the apostrophe goes where a letter is missing eg. 'that is' becomes that's (because the letter 'i' is removed)
it is = it's
is not= isn't

I'm (I am:D ) sure that there's (there is) more to it than this but it gets me by:)

Theodoric

21-08-2003, 21:09

Originally posted by hansi
Apparently a recent survey revealed that the great british public do not know the difference between its and it's and what apostrophes actually mean. May I go one stage further. Let's try and find what's happening to the letter "g" at the end of words especially on television. The two worst offenders, in my opinion are Sam Delaney who is a Channel 5 reporter and TV soccer pundit Trevor Brookin (sic)!!! Has anyone else noticed this change in our language?
The phrase, huntin', shootin' and fishin', has been used to describe the upper-class, county set since the year dot.

PS Note my use of a hyphen in 'country-set'. Apparently the correct use of hyphens seems to be becoming a thing of the past.

hansi

21-08-2003, 21:46

Originally posted by Ramrod
I had problems with this point (English isn't my first language) but then my wife pointed out to me that the apostrophe goes where a letter is missing eg. 'that is' becomes that's (because the letter 'i' is removed)
it is = it's
is not= isn't

I'm (I am:D ) sure that there's (there is) more to it than this but it gets me by:)

so explain "won't" then ( where's your missing letters there!:D

Theodoric

21-08-2003, 22:07

Originally posted by hansi
so explain "won't" then ( where's your missing letters there!:D
Won't = Will not. Originally a contraction of the Middle English 'wol not'.

Theodoric

21-08-2003, 22:11

Originally posted by Ramrod
I had problems with this point (English isn't my first language) but then my wife pointed out to me that the apostrophe goes where a letter is missing eg. 'that is' becomes that's (because the letter 'i' is removed)
it is = it's
is not= isn't
I'm (I am:D ) sure that there's (there is) more to it than this but it gets me by:)
If you don't consider the case of the possessive apotrophe, then, yes, you've hit the nail on the head. There is simply a missing letter in each case.

Actually, the possessive apostrophe also originally showed a missing letter, namely an 'e'; 'es' was the genitive noun ending, as in modern German.

EDIT Oh, dear! Or more than one missing letter! 'you've' = 'you have' I really should read more carefully before I post.:)

Shaun

21-08-2003, 22:27

All thats fine, I get that you use an apostrophe when you miss out letters (can't) or when something belongs to someone (Shaun's books). What I don't get is when you use apostrophes after the word (I won't give an example so I don't look stupid:o )!!!:confused:

Oh, and my English teacher said that if you're not sure if there should be an apostrophe then you are best to leave it out.:D

Ramrod

21-08-2003, 22:38

Originally posted by hansi
so explain "won't" then ( where's your missing letters there!:D Well I did say: 'I'm (I am ) sure that there's (there is) more to it than this but it gets me by'
....git:D

Ramrod

21-08-2003, 22:39

Originally posted by Theodoric
If you don't consider the case of the possessive apotrophe, then, yes, you've hit the nail on the head. There is simply a missing letter in each case.

Actually, the possessive apostrophe also originally showed a missing letter, namely an 'e'; 'es' was the genitive noun ending, as in modern German.

EDIT Oh, dear! Or more than one missing letter! 'you've' = 'you have' I really should read more carefully before I post.:) Que?:confused: :D

altis

21-08-2003, 22:46

Originally posted by dellwear
What I don't get is when you use apostrophes after the word..

Wot, like "Users' Manual" - plural and possessive.

Theodoric

21-08-2003, 23:12

Originally posted by altis
Wot, like "Users' Manual" - plural and possessive.
Indeed. Also, an alternative method if the word ends in 's. For example you can say either "the Jones's house" or "the Jones' house".

Of course, just to muddy the waters, "men's habits" is also plural and possessive. :)

And life can get complicated; what about "The users' manuals' front pages were all missing." :D

Shaun

21-08-2003, 23:34

Originally posted by Theodoric
Indeed. Also, an alternative method if the word ends in 's. For example you can say either "the Jones's house" or "the Jones' house".

Of course, just to muddy the waters, "men's habits" is also plural and possessive. :)

And life can get complicated; what about "The users' manuals' front pages were all missing." :D

My brain hurts:( :( :confused:

Rabbit

22-08-2003, 02:20

Well I went to St Peter's school then when we moved I went to St James' school. We always have arguements when inviting our friends the Davies's round because we can never decide whether to send the invite to the Davies' or the Davies's. I think it's the one with s's but everyone else says it's the one that's just s'

If I recall correctly back to my school days I believe that in this case both are correct. I may be wrong there though.

Jerrek

22-08-2003, 02:27

What bugs me is when people write "1980's." THERE IS NO APOSTROPHE! It is "1980s!"

Theodoric

22-08-2003, 19:11

Originally posted by Rabbit
Well I went to St Peter's school then when we moved I went to St James' school. We always have arguements when inviting our friends the Davies's round because we can never decide whether to send the invite to the Davies' or the Davies's. I think it's the one with s's but everyone else says it's the one that's just s'

If I recall correctly back to my school days I believe that in this case both are correct. I may be wrong there though.
It's the same with place names; it is essentially random. For example (and I don't know the answers), should there, or should there not, be apostrophes in St James Palace, Earls Court & Barrons Court.

Theodoric

22-08-2003, 19:13

Originally posted by Jerrek
What bugs me is when people write "1980's." THERE IS NO APOSTROPHE! It is "1980s!"
True, but I have to force myself. One lapse of concentration and I'm sprinkling this variety of apostrophe like there's no tomorrow. :)

Ramrod

22-08-2003, 20:19

Originally posted by Theodoric
It's the same with place names; it is essentially random. For example (and I don't know the answers), should there, or should there not, be apostrophes in St James Palace, Earls Court & Barrons Court. I don't think there should (because those are the names of the places, not places belonging to those people), but I am prepared to be proven wrong:)

Xaccers

22-08-2003, 23:14

Hate people who say axe instead of ask.
And supermarkets who have "10 items or less"

Theodoric

23-08-2003, 21:55

Originally posted by Ramrod
I don't think there should (because those are the names of the places, not places belonging to those people), but I am prepared to be proven wrong:)
Try here (http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/guru/index.asp) and you'll find examples of each. :)

ronald146m

23-08-2003, 22:16

Originally posted by Xaccers

And supermarkets who have "10 items or less"

Why?:shrug:

hansi

24-08-2003, 07:31

Originally posted by ronald146m
Why?:shrug:

I think he means it should say "Ten" not "10". Am I right?

Lord Nikon

24-08-2003, 07:46

I would have assumed he meant

"Up to 10 Items"
or
"Ten or Less Items"

duncant403

26-08-2003, 09:27

Originally posted by Lord Nikon
I would have assumed he meant

"Ten or Less Items"

Shouldn't that be "Ten or fewer items"? :)

Lord Nikon

26-08-2003, 10:16

or perhaps

"Single people and those who forgot a couple of items off their normal shopping list"