View Full Version : [merged] New Telewest (Blueyonder) Speed
PC_Arcade
11-11-2004, 16:00
Telewest have apparently just announced another free upgrade for their top tier BB customers, with their 3mb speed rising to 4mb, including a 128k upload increase bringing it to 384.
All still uncapped obviously.
Makes NTL's recent free upgrade look a bit poor IMHO and I just WISH I lived in a TW area :(
http://www.blueyonder.co.uk/blueyonder/getContent.jspx?page=bbs_evenfaster
Not sure if non NTL stuff is allowed on this forum - is there a subforum or something?
**Moved To Telewest BB Discussion forum as item relates to a TW product, rather than an ntl one**
This is not going to degrade into a "I hate NTL" thread now is it .. ;)
PC_Arcade
11-11-2004, 16:06
It can't degrade into one, it started out as one ;)
I'm not sure it's so black and white as 'NTL beaten' ... I'm on 750k; this tier at NTL is going up to 2Mb. The 750k tier at TW is only going up to 1Mb. I know which I'd rather have.
orangebird
11-11-2004, 16:07
http://www.blueyonder.co.uk/blueyonder/getContent.jspx?page=bbs_evenfaster
Not sure if non NTL stuff is allowed on this forum - is there a subforum or something?
No, but there is a Telewest forum you could've put it in... ;)
Merged with the other thread and suitibly named.
DrAwesome
11-11-2004, 16:10
384k upload 4mb down £50 a month nice price
PC_Arcade
11-11-2004, 16:11
I'm not sure it's so black and white as 'NTL beaten' ... I'm on 750k; this tier at NTL is going up to 2Mb. The 750k tier at TW is only going up to 1Mb. I know which I'd rather have.
For me it is, I'm on 1.5mb going to 3mb and capped @ 40Gb per month, I'd rather pay the extra and be on 4mb with no cap and I'm 100% sure I'm not alone :)
For me it is, I'm on 1.5mb going to 3mb and capped @ 40Gb per month, I'd rather pay the extra and be on 4mb with no cap and I'm 100% sure I'm not alone :)
Perhaps not, but heavy downloaders are in the minority. And they'll be a dying breed on TW if they take the pee with these new services. Sooner or later TW will find it unsustainable at those prices. Or they'll merge with NTL and get a single, unified service including caps.
Uncapped broadband, for better or worse, is not long for this world.
PC_Arcade
11-11-2004, 16:16
It always makes me laugh that NTL supporters and staff ALWAYS say "not for long" or slates other companies that offer an uncapped service. The FACT of the matter is that there are CURRENTLY companies that offer an uncapped service, NTL do not and will lose customers to those that do.
It may not last for ever, but as I can't see into the future, what's available now from NTL looks VERY poor value compared to alternative providers.
It always makes me laugh that NTL supporters and staff ALWAYS say "not for long" or slates other companies that offer an uncapped service. The FACT of the matter is that there are CURRENTLY companies that offer an uncapped service, NTL do not and will lose customers to those that do.
It may not last for ever, but as I can't see into the future, what's available now from NTL looks VERY poor value compared to alternative providers.
.... In your opinion ....
It always makes me laugh that NTL supporters and staff ALWAYS say "not for long" or slates other companies that offer an uncapped service. The FACT of the matter is that there are CURRENTLY companies that offer an uncapped service, NTL do not and will lose customers to those that do.
It may not last for ever, but as I can't see into the future, what's available now from NTL looks VERY poor value compared to alternative providers.
For some people perhaps, but for the majority of people getting 2meg at £25 is VERY competetitive. Even with a 30g cap which the majority of people won't breach. Edit: In my opinion of course :)
what's available now from NTL looks VERY poor value compared to alternative providers.
Complete tosh. I am paying the same price today for 750k as I was originally paying for 512k. If I wasn't moving house away from the ntl network, I would shortly be getting 2Mb for the same price. If I were moving to an area with ADSL (which sadly, I'm not), I would find the comparable products still offering a mere 512k. So which is poorer value?
For me it is, I'm on 1.5mb going to 3mb and capped @ 40Gb per month, I'd rather pay the extra and be on 4mb with no cap and I'm 100% sure I'm not alone :) I am at a loss to see why people are complaining about the difference between 3Mb capped and 4Mb uncapped.
What are you planning to do with the >1.3Gb of data you want to download every day? I can't see any legal use for that amount of data in a home environment. Feel free to enlighten!
dilli-theclaw
11-11-2004, 16:21
Complete tosh. I am paying the same price today for 750k as I was originally paying for 512k. If I wasn't moving house away from the ntl network, I would shortly be getting 2Mb for the same price. If I were moving to an area with ADSL (which sadly, I'm not), I would find the comparable products still offering a mere 512k. So which is poorer value?
I agree entirely :)
It's 'cause of these changes that I may well be coming BACK to ntl in january :)
I am a loss to see why people are complaining about the difference between 3Mb capped and 4Mb uncapped.
What are you planning to do with the >1.3Gb of data you want to download every day? I can't see any legal use for that amount of data in a home environment. Feel free to enlighten!
Well said that man :D
PC_Arcade
11-11-2004, 16:26
It depends on what you want, I want an uncapped service, therefore a capped service seems poor value TO ME.
Bulldog is better Value on ADSL and TW are better value on cable, it's unfortunate that as I'm not in a TW area I don't have the option of using TW.
What are you planning to do with the >1.3Gb of data you want to download every day? I can't see any legal use for that amount of data in a home environment. Feel free to enlighten!
I don't want to go back to the bad old days of having to watch the clock / downloads just to make sure I don't oversep the mark, I may not use more than 40Gb, BUT i'd like the option to do so when and if I choose to do so.
It may not last for ever, but as I can't see into the future, what's available now from NTL looks VERY poor value compared to alternative providers.In your opinion, a view which is not shared by a large majority.
But you can already with NTL ..... IT's excessive usage that is dealt with i.e.repeated breaking of the upper limit rule.
And who is going to do that on a regular basis ???
PC_Arcade
11-11-2004, 16:30
But you can already with NTL ..... IT's excessive usage that is dealt with i.e.repeated breaking of the upper limit rule.
And who is going to do that on a regular basis ???
I may choose to do so as more and more high bandwidth services become available.
I don't agree with or like the cap, now I realise round here that makes me public enemy number 1, but it's my opinion and I am entitled to it
Help.....deju vu..... :spin:
Help.....deju vu..... :spin:
Help.....deju vu..... :spin:
Help.....deju vu..... :spin:
Help.....deju vu..... :spin:
Help.....deju vu..... :spin:
Help.....deju vu..... :spin:
Help.....deju vu..... :spin:
of course, as is freedom of choice ... If you don't like the product available from one source you have every right to take your business elsewhere.
PC_Arcade
11-11-2004, 16:34
of course, as is freedom of choice ... If you don't like the product available from one source you have every right to take your business elsewhere.
I agree :)
This wasn't meant to turn into (yet another) cap thread, but it p*sses me off that no-one on this board is able to disagree with the cap without being vilified.
dilli-theclaw
11-11-2004, 16:36
I agree :)
This wasn't meant to turn into (yet another) cap thread, but it p*sses me off that no-one on this board is able to disagree with the cap without being vilified. If it irritates you that much post here...
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=13872
I'm sure nemesis will be happy for the custom :)
I don't agree with or like the cap, now I realise round here that makes me public enemy number 1, but it's my opinion and I am entitled to itNot in this topic, this is about Blueyonder, not ntl. If this carries on about ntl caps it will close.
PC_Arcade
11-11-2004, 16:38
:lol: I posted this IN the NTL forum though and it was moved here :lol:
Fair enough, I'll stop posting.
I may choose to do so as more and more high bandwidth services become available.
I don't agree with or like the cap, now I realise round here that makes me public enemy number 1, but it's my opinion and I am entitled to it
Of course you're entitled to it, and other people are entitled to disagree with you. Stop assuming that because someone disagrees with your opinion, they think you are their 'enemy'. It's not the case. :)
themelon
11-11-2004, 16:40
You can disagree with the cap, but do you actually know what the terms of the cap will be yet??
Currently they dont enforce it strictly.
I sure a hell dont know what they are going to enforce it, or even if they enforce it and what they will do to those who break the cap (extra charges, slower speeds, cut off?) Who knows............But lets WAIT and SEE!
Back on Topic to Telewests move: More excellent news Certainally beginning to make BTs Broadband Products look poor they seriously need to pull out a finger and sort out their delapidated old network quickly as currently they have 'no plans' to offer a 3mbs+ product, mainly because they cant!
bigitup_j
11-11-2004, 16:41
let's compare ntl's and telewest's new broadband offering...
was 256k/300k now:
NTL:1mb TW:256k (ntl win)
was 750k now:
NTL: 2mb TW:1mb (ntl win)
was 1.5mb now:
NTL: 3mb TW:2mb (ntl win, again)
was 3mb now:
NTL:N/A TW:4mb (telewest win)
most customers will not reach their caps or "usage allowances" with ntl. and telewest will probably end up introducing caps when certain customers begin abusing their network, and degrading other's service.
overall, ntl are going to offer the better service :shocked:
:)
Whilst it may look interesting to compare NTL / Telewest on paper (or screen) it is somewhat pointless as they don't compete :erm: . I'm on NTL and I'm happy. If I was jealous of those Telewest deals I couldn't do anything unless I moved house anyway!
If people have to make comparisons you could at least make meaningful ones, such as between NTL BB and ADSL. But that would be :notopic: ;)
Anyway, if the rumours are self-fulfilling it'll be NTLWest next year :D
bigitup_j
11-11-2004, 17:02
i was simply comparing the new offerings, as peeps were saying telewest were going to offer a better deal than ntl.
NTeleyonderwest is gonna be the name :D
scrotnig
11-11-2004, 17:05
I think rather than waste any bandwidth on posting to this thread (which of course, people won't want to do in case their 'cap' kicks in!), we could save a lot of time and effort if all the ntl staff quit the site now and a couple of the admins resigned. :D
Same result, half the effort!
:erm:
Ignition
11-11-2004, 17:16
I think rather than waste any bandwidth on posting to this thread (which of course, people won't want to do in case their 'cap' kicks in!), we could save a lot of time and effort if all the ntl staff quit the site now and a couple of the admins resigned. :D
Same result, half the effort!
:erm:
Stuff that someone has to be here to argue.
OK Capping isn't happening:
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=plusnet
Read, absorb, especially posts from Ian Wild, Plus are looking at ways to monitor and reduce usage as their current packages aren't economical and their network is maxing at peak times, even with the 310Mbps they've added within the past month.
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=bulldog&PHPSESSID=
Bulldog, loads of service problems, go a few pages back and enjoy the string of complaints about their seriously oversubscribed network (the one that gave me sub 150kbps speeds on an Office 2Mbit 20:1 connection).
Much as though I hate to admit it Pipex are one of the few capless and not considering it ISPs left, however their margins are precarious to say the least.
Telewest are gambling a bit with this - whether it will be ok or not we'll see. Personally I think they're taking a huge risk and could really annoy a lot of customers if this goes pearshaped.
A single downstream is 22.5Mbit/s or ~ 30Mbit/s, these are expected to cater for at least 750 customers, usually closer to 1000.
All it takes is 7 4Mbit users blatting it, and congestion city.
We'll see how it goes though. Those who really dislike ntl can move to ADSL in vast majority of cases. The policies won't change because of them that's the way it is.
----------------------- End of cap related cr@p------------------
On another subject BT Wholesale ADSL is beginning to look rather weak, their latest innovation QoS guaranteed service looks suspiciously like a tacit admission that their network can't sustain current levels of service, so they plan on selling the current levels of service as value added extras.
Check http://www.adslguide.org.uk for the news on BT Wholesale, along with their arguments with Ofcom regarding the upgrades that they so greviously need to do to get their network up to 21st Century standards '21CN' as they call it. The core network standards that both cablecos have already, which is why they can push the envelope.
etccarmageddon
11-11-2004, 17:24
here's a link to blueyonder:-
http://www.blueyonder.co.uk/blueyonder/getContent.jspx?page=bbs_evenfaster
if it hasnt already been posted!
(welcome back ignition)
excellent news as it's another boost for Broadband in the UK. and another kick up ADSL's arse.
bob_builder
11-11-2004, 17:30
This is also mentioned here:
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds16898.html
I liked the following quote:
"This will be the second time this year we have increased the speed of our blueyonder broadband services, doubling the original bandwidth with no increased costs and no introduction of caps," explained Eric Tveter, president and chief operating officer at Telewest Broadband.
It sounded like a dig at NTL with their recently announced speed increases with caps (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/112/update-ntl-confirms-more-broadband-speed-changes)!
etccarmageddon
11-11-2004, 17:33
I dont care if it's a peeing contest between NTL and Telewest although it is starting to look like one and if it is then that's good news for the consumer.
What's important is that this forces BT to bring down ADSL costs and increase the performance of ADSL in order to keep up.
andrew_wallasey
11-11-2004, 17:49
It depends on what you want, I want an uncapped service, therefore a capped service seems poor value TO ME.
Bulldog is better Value on ADSL and TW are better value on cable, it's unfortunate that as I'm not in a TW area I don't have the option of using TW.
I don't want to go back to the bad old days of having to watch the clock / downloads just to make sure I don't oversep the mark, I may not use more than 40Gb, BUT i'd like the option to do so when and if I choose to do so.
One thing which strikes me is that you might talk about money but fail to talk about service. Bulldog's service is terrible from what I have heard and seen.
PC_Arcade
11-11-2004, 18:01
One thing which strikes me is that you might talk about money but fail to talk about service. Bulldog's service is terrible from what I have heard and seen.
I have 2 friends on Bulldog (both in Leeds) and have heard nothing but glowing reports about them. In all honesty I don't know what their service is like where I am, BUT can you HONESTLY say NTl's has been GOOD????
Emails that you can't get, newsgroups with NO retention and alot of them simply missing, waiting 40mins + to get through to CS, and until recently a very variable service on BB and HUGE billing problems. The service I have recieved from NTL has been ridiculously variable from utterly abysmal to really very good, but when they are bad they are REALLY REALLY bad.
Again please note this is from MY personal experience as a customer of ~5 years.
I am at a loss to see why people are complaining about the difference between 3Mb capped and 4Mb uncapped.
What are you planning to do with the >1.3Gb of data you want to download every day? I can't see any legal use for that amount of data in a home environment. Feel free to enlighten!
:clap:
DrAwesome
11-11-2004, 18:02
If it degrades the network why offer faster speeds with restrictions, NTL marketing department should have waited till after the Blueyonder announcement then their BB increases with restrictions wouldnt have looked so bad.
What?! no comments yet about telewest copying ntl....?
dilli-theclaw
11-11-2004, 18:08
What?! no comments yet about telewest copying ntl....?
Do you WANT someone to say that?:confused:
let's compare ntl's and telewest's new broadband offering...
was 256k/300k now:
NTL:1mb TW:256k (ntl win)
was 750k now:
NTL: 2mb TW:1mb (ntl win)
was 1.5mb now:
NTL: 3mb TW:2mb (ntl win, again)
was 3mb now:
NTL:N/A TW:4mb (telewest win)
most customers will not reach their caps or "usage allowances" with ntl. and telewest will probably end up introducing caps when certain customers begin abusing their network, and degrading other's service.
overall, ntl are going to offer the better service :shocked:
:)
Well said
PC_Arcade
11-11-2004, 18:25
let's compare ntl's and telewest's new broadband offering...
was 256k/300k now:
NTL:1mb TW:256k (ntl win)
was 750k now:
NTL: 2mb TW:1mb (ntl win)
was 1.5mb now:
NTL: 3mb TW:2mb (ntl win, again)
was 3mb now:
NTL:N/A TW:4mb (telewest win)
most customers will not reach their caps or "usage allowances" with ntl. and telewest will probably end up introducing caps when certain customers begin abusing their network, and degrading other's service.
overall, ntl are going to offer the better service :shocked:
:)
Shall we make another comparison?
As noted by PaulM in his announcement in the NTL further upgrades post in the NTL forum NTL, may re-introduce the 150kb tier so both NTL and BY/TW would offer 4 tiers of service :
NTL:150kb TW:256k (TW win)
NTL: 1mb TW:1mb (TW win (no cap))
NTL: 2mb TW:2mb (TW win (again, no cap)
NTL: 3mb TW:4mb (telewest win, by a MILE, no cap and faster u/l)
Although NTL are a little cheaper on each tier, not signficantly and people who want / need top tier speeds are usually prepared to pay for them (I used to pay £50 for my 1mb connection and was happy to do so)
let's compare ntl's and telewest's new broadband offering...
was 256k/300k now:
NTL:1mb TW:256k (ntl win)
was 750k now:
NTL: 2mb TW:1mb (ntl win)
was 1.5mb now:
NTL: 3mb TW:2mb (ntl win, again)
was 3mb now:
NTL:N/A TW:4mb (telewest win)
most customers will not reach their caps or "usage allowances" with ntl. and telewest will probably end up introducing caps when certain customers begin abusing their network, and degrading other's service.
overall, ntl are going to offer the better service :shocked:
:)
A better comparison:
New Speeds (list applies to existing customers)
Entry Level
BY 256k/128k = £17.99 (usage guide 750mb a day or about 23gb per month)
ntl 1Mb/64k? = £17.99 (cap 5gb per month + £25 Admin Fee)
Mid-Tier
BY 1Mb/128k = £25 (Free upgrade + unlimited usage)
ntl 2Mb/128k = £24.99 (cap 30gb per month + £25 Admin Fee)
High
BY 2Mb/256k = £35 (Free upgrade + unlimited usage)
ntl 3 Mb/256k = £37.99 (cap 40 gb per month + £25 Admin Fee)
Higher
BY 4Mb/384k = £50 (Free upgrade + unlimited usage)
ntl - n/a
IMO I think BY wins on the three higher tiers. More speed = more downloading - why would we want caps? I admit, BY prices are not as attractive as ntl but theyll go down when ADSL can compare with BY on speed and price.
Does Telewest use proxies for web surfing ?
Does Telewests Email service work properly ?
Can you get Telewest on the phone within 5 mins ?
I don't know the answer to these questions, but I'd rather NTL fixed whats broken/annoying rather than just keep on increasing speed.
3 or 4 mb is nice, but if you are still proxied and unable to use the email on a daily basis and also unable to reach anyone within a reasonable time to moan about it then whats the point ?
As noted by PaulM in his announcement in the NTL further upgrades post in the NTL forum NTL, may re-introduce the 150kb tier so both NTL and BY/TW would offer 4 tiers of service :
NTL are not going to re-introduce the 150k service. :)
ian@huth
11-11-2004, 18:42
Telewest have apparently just announced another free upgrade for their top tier BB customers, with their 3mb speed rising to 4mb, including a 128k upload increase bringing it to 384.
All still uncapped obviously.
Makes NTL's recent free upgrade look a bit poor IMHO and I just WISH I lived in a TW area :(
Telewest have actually announced upgrades for all their broadband customers not just the top tier.
They may say that they are giving an unlimited service but they still have usage restrictions in their terms and conditions. These are the usual restrictions that most ISPs have about not using the service to download / upload copyright material. They may not have applied the particular clause in the past and taken action against any customer for breach of it, but that is not to say that they will not use it in the future. I would imagine that most heavy users do download / upload copyright material, no matter what they say and could lose their service as a result.
So before you can comment about what is a good deal you have to wait and see how the the companies police their deals. If you are a very heavy user and your iSP wants to get rid of you they will find a way.
PC_Arcade
11-11-2004, 18:43
Fair enough :)
BY offer 4 tiers and NTL 3, so NTL offer their customers less choice.
PC_Arcade
11-11-2004, 18:53
They may say that they are giving an unlimited service but they still have usage restrictions in their terms and conditions.
I've just read their AUP and the ONLY mention it makes of acceptable use on the higher tiers is about abuse of UPLOAD bandwidth.
Ignition
11-11-2004, 19:49
I have 2 friends on Bulldog (both in Leeds) and have heard nothing but glowing reports about them. In all honesty I don't know what their service is like where I am, BUT can you HONESTLY say NTl's has been GOOD????
Emails that you can't get, newsgroups with NO retention and alot of them simply missing
In my case BD were atrocious.
However going away from that newsgroup retention is currently approximately 12 days, and groups 'missing' are intentionally omitted. But let's not let facts get in the way of a good rant :)
I think enough is enough .... this was supposed to be a realistic discussion about the TW announcement, and the benefit to TW customers.
Face it NTL and TW are two different companies, who really aren't even in competition with each other as their customer bases aren't the same. The comparisons are fruitless, pointless, and unnecessary.
On that note .... Thread closed.
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