View Full Version : NTL v Telewest
poolking
22-06-2003, 11:49
This may have been brought up before.
Telewest have just come through the same restructuring as NTL.
Yet Telewest have got the following:
Better Interactive TV
Launched a 2Mb Broadband Trial
Is it that NTL over extended themselves in the 90s by buying every cable franchise in sight and Telewest have kept themselves small?
Or have Telewest handled their finances slightly better?
Better Management?
There may be more issues but those are the 2 I have picked up on in the media.
I think that ntl will roll out better bb and tv interactivity, it's all a matter of time. Nothing stands still. Wether ntl will languish in 2nd place or take the lead remains to be seen(and you can probably toss a coin to decide on that outcome)
Undisputedtruth
22-06-2003, 12:09
Originally posted by poolking
Is it that NTL over extended themselves in the 90s by buying every cable franchise in sight and Telewest have kept themselves small?
Or have Telewest handled their finances slightly better?
Better Management?
There may be more issues but those are the 2 I have picked up on in the media.
Both NTL and Telewest both over extended themselves by buying up every cable franchise going. Before NTL purchase of CWC, Telewest were the biggest. During the the takeover battle of CWC, Telewest were probably the better choice to take over CWC. Both Telewest and CWC had DOCSIS and were using similar STB - so no compatability issues, NTL were using the older DAVIC system. NTL manage to outbid Telewest by obtaining finances from France Telecom for something like £3billi on. France telecom also took a stake in NTL. Anyway the merger was referred to the Monopolies & Mergers commision in 1999. I think NTL were given the deal on the basis of their customers were getting free dial up for internet access. Unfortunately, many of the exCWC customers did not get free dial up.
Yes, it is widely considered that Telewest has the better management.
Has anyone notice how Telewest are not figured in the sameway as NTL in the press?
they should open themselves up to competition.
allow each other to use their network.
oh, bit of controversy there :)
MoneyPenny
23-06-2003, 18:38
Telewest however have not come out of their bankrupcy protection yet and it is proving much harder for them to do so than it did for ntl:.
UDT saidYes, it is widely considered that Telewest has the better management
I agree with that, I was offered a job with them about 14 months ago and was very impressed with their engineering compared to ntl.
Telewest I know have their problems, but their emphasis on engineering is vastly different to ntl. The manager that I was dealing with said the senior management team appreciated the work they were doing, and they were certainly allowed budget for test equipment and a decent engineering facility etc.
At ntl engineers or anything to do with them, was like something stuck to the bottom of senior managements shoes, and test equipment was a no-no, a lap top for the regional directors PA to let her kids play on was a different matter.
It's amazing that a company selling a technical product/service can have so much disregard for the people that really matter!
:mad:
allanprg
23-06-2003, 19:00
Actually NTL have a 2mb broadband already. At the moment it's for business only. But will be domestic soon enough I expect.:wavey: :walk:
This was in the Daily Telegraph recently.
Telewest chief's £1 million parachute
By Dominic White (Filed: 13/06/2003)
Telewest chief Charles Burdick is in line for a pay-off of more than £1m if the troubled cable company is bought by rival NTL, it emerged yesterday.
News came as Telewest shareholders, who are about to see their investments all but wiped out by a £3.5 billion debt for equity swap, chastised the company's directors at a hot-tempered annual meeting in London.
According to Mr Burdick's service contract, made available at the meeting, he could receive the equivalent of two years' salary and benefits if the company is bought by another party, apart from AT&T or large shareholder Liberty Media.
Asked about talk of a merger with NTL, chairman Cob Stenham told shareholders: "I think there's a significant chance of that happening in the future. But I do not think it will happen quickly."
Mr Burdick is on a salary of £500,00 0 a year and during 2002 received £70,000 in additional benefits. He was promoted to chief from finance director after predecessor Adam Singer was ousted.
He has spent the past 11 months negotiating a debt-forgiveness scheme, which has seen the bondholders agree in principle to forgive the debt in exchange for 97pc of the company.
However, the creditors have stalled completion in the hope of getting a greater chunk of the new equity, possibly as much as 99pc. Shareholders vented their anger at what they saw as bondholders cashing in.
"We can't go on like this in life, with the big fish eating the small fish," said private shareholder Angel Rizk. "We don't want it to end with another disaster like Marconi." Last year, Marconi's £4 billion debt for equity swap left shareholders with just 0.5pc.
Originally posted by DannyA
they should open themselves up to competition.
allow each other to use their network.
oh, bit of controversy there :)
I've been saying this for age's. But it should be the goverment opening them up to fair competition. NTL should have never been allowed to say things like,
Were not in competition with Telewest
They should be in competition with all the other company's in the same line of work full stop
I work for Sky digital by proxy and deal with a lot of waranty calls and give technical advice (no not a call centre - a "contact" or "communication" centre please :)
It is amusing when people threaten to cancel Sky/Cable/The now defunct OnDigital,
because they say oh i'll get the other one and you wont get my money - hahahaha.
But the money still goes to Mr Murdoch at the end of the day. If I remember rightly, cable have to pay the same per user as a normal Sky subscriber. That may be incorrect but thats what Sky say.
Competition is good. Very good. But what happens when your a telewest subscriber in an NTL area and you can't get your 2Meg cos the NTL network cant handle it <snigger>
<snigger> or <cry> - you decide.
paul11974
24-06-2003, 20:38
well if this post is about ntl and sky then ntl win hands down.....sky can t offer the same service as ntl offers ........ie digital tv telephone and broadband or dial up............ntl is working on it s red button thing ......and when this is all done is far superior to what sky has to offer :walk:
dont want to burst your bubble dude, but im gonna.
BT and Sky have teamed up so you can get Sky talk which is BT+Sky and is cheaper than cable.
Plus you can get ADSL thorugh this now as well. If you get it on an offer you can get free instalation and modem which is pretty cool.
Technologically Sky digiboxes urinate all over cable boxes. Anyway through the sky system you can get a 2.5Gbps stream. Obvously upstream is non-existent, but it makes some good headroom for future features. They are working on some cool new stuff as well.
I get my phone and internet from NTL, cos i dont mind them that much. But i'd never get cable tv. Why pay more for something that isn't as good quality? its a negative investment.
My dad swopped his one sky box for 5 boxes of NTL. Interactive never works, the picture suffers from ghosting and interference at times. Plus the quality is superb on sky. Especially if you are watching on a mussive screen. He is gonna change back as soon as his contract expired.
And whats with the cable EPG, its counter intuitive. It makes me want to hit things!
anyway i think i hijacked this post?
Yay Telewest!
is that right?
Undisputedtruth
24-06-2003, 23:53
Originally posted by DannyA
they should open themselves up to competition.
allow each other to use their network.
oh, bit of controversy there :)
This is something I've been saying for a very long time on NTHELLWORLD.COM . In fact I may have been the first person to say this.
MoneyPenny
25-06-2003, 07:32
Originally posted by Andre
[B]That can't be right, as it would mean that ntl are offering the channels at would effectively be 'cost price'
That IS about right actually, Ntl: supply Sky Channels because people want them in terms of 'profit' for ntl:, well it's not there, it DOES go straight back to Mr. Murdoch essentially. However, with the new deal on some Sky channels it is possible that ntl: could make a very small amount of money (and I mean very small)
Its a loss leader. Like bread and supermarkets.
Get the suckers in your shop and blast them with your other products where you can create new "revenue streams".
Why do you think Telewest rebranded themselves to Telewest Broadband?
Originally posted by DannyA
dont want to burst your bubble dude, but im gonna.
And whats with the cable EPG, its counter intuitive. It makes me want to hit things!
Sorry but I have to disagree, I've been spending a bit of time using the Sky digital EPG and find the Ntl (Original Area) one far better and more intuitive to use.
Might just be personal preference but I think this is one area where Ntl are getting things right. All we need now is Cr3 in all area to see how things compare.
Proppinupthebar
25-06-2003, 17:45
Originally posted by DannyA
Technologically Sky digiboxes urinate all over cable boxes. Anyway through the sky system you can get a 2.5Gbps stream. Obvously upstream is non-existent, but it makes some good headroom for future features. They are working on some cool new stuff as well.
Where does this figure of 2.5Gb/s come from ? A single Astra2/Eurobird 1 satellite downlink carries a maximum of 36.6666Mb/s. There's less inside a Sky box, cable boxes contain the return path modulator and associated electronics.
I thought it was 2.5gbps, my mistake. I heard that figure a while ago, but im not a bench tester or installer.
What speed you gonna get out of cable? - sorry, NTL?
Yes the cable STB's are glorified cable modems and there possibly is more inside a cable box.
But the sky boxes are just better designed from a user point of view and have more capital invested in them. Look at Sky +. Where is cables version?
I have heard on the grapevine of some new services from Sky, and they sound rather f'ing good.
The picture on NTL is much worse than sky in my opinion. It comes through at a steady 3Mbps if i remember correctly (Proppin' ?)
Regarding the EPG, i have talked 90+ year old people through the sky system, even intricate engineer menu's - and they are pretty damn good.
I seriously cant get to grips with the NTL epg. I am very good with technology (as most people here are) - and I cant get on with it. Its failed at the first hurdle. how are mr and mrs thick gonna get on?
Proppinupthebar
25-06-2003, 18:35
Originally posted by DannyA
I thought it was 2.5gbps, my mistake. I heard that figure a while ago, but im not a bench tester or installer.
What speed you gonna get out of cable? - sorry, NTL?
Yes the cable STB's are glorified cable modems and there possibly is more inside a cable box.
But the sky boxes are just better designed from a user point of view and have more capital invested in them. Look at Sky +. Where is cables version?
I have heard on the grapevine of some new services from Sky, and they sound rather f'ing good.
The picture on NTL is much worse than sky in my opinion. It comes through at a steady 3Mbps if i remember correctly (Proppin' ?)
Regarding the EPG, i have talked 90+ year old people through the sky system, even intricate engineer menu's - and they are pretty damn good.
I seriously cant get to grips with the NTL epg. I am very good with technology (as most people here are) - and I cant get on with it. Its failed at the first hurdle. how are mr and mrs thick gonna get on?
The broadcast stream on cable is 38Mb/s. I cant comment on the bitrates available on the broadband path as I am not involved with the UBR/Intersect side.
A lot of ntls channels are straight forward pass throughs recieved from Astra 2/Eurobird 1, hence the same bit rate. On some channels which aren't taken by ntl via satellite, Sky have recently chosen to reduce the horizontal resolution, and ntl haven't.
Steady 3Mb/s ? Nope like Sky most of our channels are statistically multiplexed.
Sky had a two year headstart on cable, their software may be better developed/functioned to your mind, but I'm sure there are people who will argue either way.
Sky started off promoting Tivo, and then got Pace to develop their own version. ntl are concentrating on revenue at the moment, they aren't spending money on 'un-necessary' stuff, as their financial position improves they may well develop PVR's and suchlike.
Originally posted by DannyA
[QUOTE]
But the sky boxes are just better designed from a user point of view and have more capital invested in them. Look at Sky +. Where is cables version?
Depends on the stories you listen to. Personally I believe (just personal opinion, no insider knowledge) that something similar will be available next year.
The picture on NTL is much worse than sky in my opinion. It comes through at a steady 3Mbps if i remember correctly (Proppin' ?)
Comparing the two I honestly can't see any difference. Some of the Sky channels are pretty poor but I think that's due to the channel themselves and not sky. At least with cable the picture doesn't die during bad weather.
Regarding the EPG, i have talked 90+ year old people through the sky system, even intricate engineer menu's - and they are pretty damn good.
I seriously cant get to grips with the NTL epg. I am very good with technology (as most people here are) - and I cant get on with it. Its failed at the first hurdle. how are mr and mrs thick gonna get on?
I just feel the cable EPG is slicker than Sky. Just down to personal preference. I just feel able to do more with the cable one.
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