View Full Version : has www.ntlcommunity.com sold out?
Stuart W
08-08-2003, 19:00
www.ntlcommunity.com now points elsewhere....
Does anyone know what's going on??
Did ntl buy it out?
If there has been a sell-out, I wonder if this'll appear in Amy's I, nthw.com, ntlh.co.uk etc etc.....
edit - I get the impression this is gonna be a HUGE thread....
Stuart W
08-08-2003, 19:18
Well, I can only think of a few reasons why DNS would resolve this way.....
The biggest one has to be that ntl now own the domain.
Originally posted by Andre
Perhaps the site owner (who is a registered member here on this site) would care to comment on why his site now points to http://community.ntl.com ?
And maybe we could make up wild ideas about how many tens of thousands of pounds he/she was paid ;)
Or is it a case of someone having the address taken away due to the impersonating another company rules etc?
dig www.ntlcommunity.com
; <<>> DiG 9.2.1 <<>> www.ntlcommunity.com
;; global options: printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 16247
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 0
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;www.ntlcommunity.com. IN A
;; ANSWER SECTION:
www.ntlcommunity.com. 14290 IN CNAME ntlcommunity.com.
ntlcommunity.com. 14290 IN A 207.44.194.150
;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
ntlcommunity.com. 14290 IN NS ns2.ukpcnet.co.uk.
ntlcommunity.com. 14290 IN NS ns1.ukpcnet.co.uk.
;; Query time: 273 msec
;; SERVER: 194.168.4.100#53(194.168.4.100)
;; WHEN: Fri Aug 8 19:24:47 2003
;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 117
[darryl@paulweller darryl]$ whois 207.44.194.150
OrgName: Everyones Internet, Inc.
OrgID: EVRY
Address: 2600 Southwest Frwy., Suite 500
City: Houston
StateProv: TX
PostalCode: 77098
Country: US
NetRange: 207.44.128.0 - 207.44.255.255
CIDR: 207.44.128.0/17
NetName: EVRY-BLK-11
NetHandle: NET-207-44-128-0-1
Parent: NET-207-0-0-0-0
NetType: Direct Allocation
NameServer: NS1.EV1.NET
NameServer: NS2.EV1.NET
Comment:
RegDate:
Updated: 2002-05-08
TechHandle: RW172-ARIN
TechName: Williams, Randy
TechPhone: +1-713-400-5400
TechEmail: admin@ev1.net
OrgTechHandle: RW172-ARIN
OrgTechName: Williams, Randy
OrgTechPhone: +1-713-400-5400
OrgTechEmail: admin@ev1.net
Seems they've decided to shut up shop and redirect traffic to ntl.
Originally posted by Tricky
Or is it a case of someone having the address taken away due to the impersonating another company rules etc?
Cyber squatting? But NTL weren't interested in that address otherwise they surely would have registered it straight away?
No we won't, we'll just get the facts behind this deplorable decision if it's true, as Matthew may have re-directed it to ntl's site of his own accord.
Good to see that irony isn't wasted on you ;) :D
Lord Nikon
08-08-2003, 19:27
There are no listed disputes on the ownership of ntlcommunity.com, the domain registrar has not changed, however the domain status is listed as registrar lock
Anyone tried phoning matthew for comment?
u'll be looky to know whats goin on, i helped build and maintain that site (ntlcommunity.com) and i dont exactly know whats goin on
Originally posted by Andre
Not necessarily-they were too stupid to register www.nthellworld.co.uk, what makes you think they were clever enough to think of alternate names to http://community.ntl.com? :rolleyes:
You are of course absolutely spot on!
Originally posted by Andre
Not necessarily-they were too stupid to register www.nthellworld.co.uk, what makes you think they were clever enough to think of alternate names to http://community.ntl.com? :rolleyes:
Oooh the scandle of it, imagine not being able to afford £ 3 p.a. to stop people from ripping then off!! :rolleyes:
Actually, Andre fess up, this domain was already registered by the time they bought .com :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Andre
Yes it was, but I managed to buy it & sit on the domain, but clearly ntl were too stupid too see the opportunity.
So your :rolleyes: was not really necessary was it?
I'll :rolleyes: where I want to thanks :D
To the best of your knowledge was ntl offered the domain? If so by you or the previous owner?
Lord Nikon
08-08-2003, 19:47
Aren't we kinda drifting off topic here?
The original question was for Matthew about ntlcommunity.com
Stuart W
08-08-2003, 19:52
Me too.
I seem to remember a lot of people shouting about Frank 'selling out', I didn't think anyone else would 'sell out' through fear of repercusion.
Originally posted by Stuart W
I seem to remember a lot of people shouting about Frank 'selling out'
Ahh yes but that was 'different' - and I'm sure someone will tell us why too.. :rolleyes:
Lord Nikon
08-08-2003, 20:03
Originally posted by Russ D
Ahh yes but that was 'different' - and I'm sure someone will tell us why too.. :rolleyes:
they offered Frank a shedload of money and a job in order to gain control of the site and to silence Craig aka Compunightmare perhaps?
since pre buyout he was one of the biggest voices in the anti NTL marketplace, in fact he became infamous for it. (been doing a little background research :D )
but still, back to topic...
Has anyone tried phoning Matthew and see what is happening?
Stuart W
08-08-2003, 20:10
If someone gives me his number, I'd be happy to call. :D
Lord Nikon
08-08-2003, 20:14
Its on the nominet domain lookup for the site...
do a domain lookup at internic.com and its listed :D
Stuart W
08-08-2003, 20:19
Whois Server Version 1.3
Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered
with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net
for detailed information.
Domain Name: NTLCOMMUNITY.COM
Registrar: ENOM, INC.
Whois Server: whois.enom.com
Referral URL: http://www.enom.com
Name Server: NS1.UKPCNET.CO.UK
Name Server: NS2.UKPCNET.CO.UK
Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK
Updated Date: 21-jun-2003
Creation Date: 21-jun-2003
Expiration Date: 21-jun-2004
>>> Last update of whois database: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 06:08:49 EDT <<<
Where's the phone number??
Awaits flaming for stupid question but:
Is the community. not just another name under the host ntl.com
This is how it would appear in an W2K active directory
I.e. I have my home network as tricky.local and my servers under this domain appear as server1.tricky.local
Grabs bucket of water just in case!
Originally posted by Tricky
Awaits flaming for stupid question but:
Is the community. not just another name under the host ntl.com
This is how it would appear in an W2K active directory
I.e. I have my home network as tricky.local and my servers under this domain appear as server1.tricky.local
Grabs bucket of water just in case!
Yep :).. But still throw the water over yourself :D
Reads original address and realises mistook!:rolleyes: :geez:
Blame it on the heat!
Stuart W
08-08-2003, 21:17
Well, I for one am dissapointed in you.
Sorry, but you started the site with the best of intentions. People stopped posting. You sold out.
I have a forum and sometimes it is like a scene from a crap western, only I don't even have the tumbleweed, but I press on.
I made my forum to help others. If no-one posts for a while, so what? someone will post again and I can help them
I wouldn't do anything like that even for "undisclosed fee"
Shows just what a state Ntl are in though doesn't it.
If it wasn't so sad it would be laughable.:rolleyes:
Originally posted by matty4donna Makes a complete mockery of you setting it up to help ntl customers in the first place (or perhaps that was never your intention? :dozey: )
It's nice to know that you won't be next, 'cos when they shut the forums down on .co.uk people are going to need a place to come.
The saddest thing is, some people over there still think the sun shines out of Ntl. :dozey:
Stuart W
08-08-2003, 21:23
If it made no difference in the way they think, how come they thought about paying an undisclosed fee for it?
My old Fiesta has no impact on ntl, will they buy that??
Is this "undisclosed fee" substantial?
Originally posted by Stuart W
My old Fiesta has no impact on ntl, will they buy that?? Maby, if you paint 'I hate ntl' on the sides:D
NTL appear to have missed a couple of registrations where they have the .co.uk address but not the .com and .com address when they don't have the .co.uk
Just considering registrering a .com now...
Alan Waddington
08-08-2003, 21:26
There was some confusion between ntlcommunity & community.ntl, so perhaps this is for the best. However it is the principal of the thing that matters.
I guess the principal is "to sell out for a shed load of cash" :D
Dare I mention "business ethics":D:D
ROTFL
(Just to be clear, I'm relieved that Matthew hasn't been consumed by lawyers)
Alan
grum1978
08-08-2003, 21:28
Originally posted by matty4donna
Its undisclosed for legal reasons, hence why it is undisclosed.
Won't the amount be published at some point in financal figures?
Richard M
08-08-2003, 21:30
Originally posted by grum1978
Won't the amount be published at some point in financal figures?
Noooo...don't be silly.
They'll put it down as a box of biros or something..
Stuart W
08-08-2003, 21:30
Originally posted by Andre
Why didn't you speak to me and offer it to me then, so we could attract more ntl customers in need of help to this site? :rolleyes:
Perhaps you couldn't "disclose" the correct ammount?
Lord Nikon
08-08-2003, 21:30
How about a new domain for you matty...
ntlbought.me.uk
Maybe if we have a whip round, we could disclose enough to find out!!
Stuart W
08-08-2003, 21:34
Originally posted by matty4donna
Because i would not have known who runs this site to offer it to anyone anyway. Plus, the domain in question had legal implications for anyone owning it anyway.
Well I for one would have taken on the legal battle.
But then, I'm not scared off by corporate lawyers. Anyone who knows some of my dealings with ntl would know this.
Mind you, probably more importantly, I wouldn't have sold out.
You say the posts were becoming increasingly negative.
Where were your MOD's then?
Alan Waddington
08-08-2003, 21:34
Originally posted by matty4donna
Because i would not have known who runs this site to offer it to anyone anyway. Plus, the domain in question had legal implications for anyone owning it anyway.
Looks like the options were cash or lawyers. If you stuff the mattress with lawyers, it makes the bed lumpy. I'd have made the same decision:)
Alan
Richard M
08-08-2003, 21:36
Originally posted by dellwear
Maybe if we have a whip round, we could disclose enough to find out!!
lmao
Seriously though, a young person with lots of things he would like to buy offered cash for their dormant domain?
I'm not surprised, I might have done the same myself but not if the site was active though.
*shields up*
I think that you did right matty. Your site was as dead as a dead thing (sorry m8) and the fact that you have sold it to ntl dosn't change a thing in the greater scheme of things. There are two other (at least) independant ntl sites that are doing a good job. The fact that you sold out makes no difference to anyone except you and your wallet (and your nerves from what you say). Well done and I hope you screwed them on the price!:)
Look at it this way. Matty registered ntlcommunity.com long after NTL had made public the fact they were going to have their own help site with that name. Cybersquatting is now against the law. NTL would have won had the case gone to court. If you ask me, the idea was to deliberately trap people who would be looking for the 'official' Community site, and I don't like that.
For example, if eBay announced they were going to set up a new car auction service at motoring.ebay.com, would it be okay for me to go and immediately register the domain www.ebaymotoring.com? I think not.
Originally posted by Ramrod
*shields up*
I think that you did right matty. Your site was as dead as a dead thing (sorry m8) and the fact that you have sold it to ntl dosn't change a thing in the greater scheme of things. There are two other (at least) independant ntl sites that are doing a good job. The fact that you sold out makes no difference to anyone except you and your wallet (and your nerves from what you say). Well done and I hope you screwed them on the price!:)
i have to disagree i think its digusting you sold out matty just in it for the money you were not interested in anything else no wonder companys get away with murder people buckle under the simple pressure and cave in to money and not what is right and honest thing
Lord Nikon
08-08-2003, 21:46
Is there a reason every post by matty has now vanished from the thread? (other than he sold out)
Alan Waddington
08-08-2003, 21:49
Originally posted by Tristan
Look at it this way. Matty registered ntlcommunity.com long after NTL had made public the fact they were going to have their own help site with that name. Cybersquatting is now against the law. NTL would have won had the case gone to court.
I was thinking much the same thing. And I agree with Ramrod about the site being dead and therefore not a great loss to the true ntl community.
Originally posted by Andre
As I have already stated Ramrod, Matty could easily have contacted me with news of ntl's 'offer' and if needs be (within reason) I could have bought it from him, and it would have re-directed here to help more of ntl's customers that get shat on from a great height by them. True, he could have but would you have had as deep pockets as ntl? I know that the morally upstanding thing would have been to hand it over to you but your site is doing an excellent job already. I don't think it matters that much that matty made a quick buck off ntl. His site was dead and on top of that he was getting abuse about it.
That didn't happen, Matty didn't give a **** about ntl's customers and sold out at the first opportunity I know that this is a very emotive subject for you but I find the level of abuse (by mods) directed at matty very worrying. He is, after all a member here.
.....sorry if I am out of line saying that.....:(
Lord Nikon
08-08-2003, 21:52
I am just asking if the missing matty posts is an admin edit or did he pack up his toys and go home sulking?
Lord Nikon
08-08-2003, 21:53
ok Andre :D my second post was as you made your first one :D
Lord Nikon
08-08-2003, 21:57
What does it profit a man to sell his soul to gain an "undisclosed sum"?
Maybe now is a good time to remind everyone (ESPECIALLY NTL) that this site is not, and never will be for sale.
As for 'certain' requests for things to change here.......which part of the words 'no way' do you not understand?
Originally posted by Lord Nikon
What does it profit a man to sell his soul to gain an "undisclosed sum"? Oh come on. It's not religion that were talking about here, just a quiet website. If it was a busy one like this one then I would be ranting and raving as well. As it is he managed to extract some money from ntl, good for him!
grum1978
08-08-2003, 22:07
Originally posted by Ramrod
Oh come on. It's not religion that were talking about here, just a quiet website. If it was a busy one like this one then I would be ranting and raving as well. As it is he managed to extract some money from ntl, good for him!
:rolleyes:
and who pays in the long run for ntl buying the site???
Originally posted by grum1978
:rolleyes:
and who pays in the long run for ntl buying the site??? a drop in the ocean.......:)
grum1978
08-08-2003, 22:11
Originally posted by Ramrod
a drop in the ocean.......:)
Just what everyone needs ntl forking out money on a site just to close it :rolleyes:
Originally posted by grum1978
Just what everyone needs ntl forking out money on a site just to close it :rolleyes:
Don't be so cynical, after all, it's not like they've done that before....
Originally posted by grum1978
Just what everyone needs ntl forking out money on a site just to close it :rolleyes: still a drop in the ocean and it's a self limiting process, it can't happen much.:)
Originally posted by Russ D
Don't be so cynical, after all, it's not like they've done that before.... and I don't think Frank got half this abuse did he?
Frank gets a honorary membership and matty gets stick:(
Originally posted by Ramrod
and I don't think Frank got half this abuse did he?
:eek: :eek: :eek:
Please......tell me you're joking.......please.....
Originally posted by Russ D
:eek: :eek: :eek:
Please......tell me you're joking.......please..... ...when you consider the relative sizes of the respective sites, and what about the second part of my post?
Lord Nikon
08-08-2003, 22:20
We were kinda hoping that people would have learned from the example frank set. he gained money but lost a LOT of people's respect in doing so.... Now matt has done the same, and the restraint people showed when talking about frank hadn't been earned with matt. Frank had accomplished a lot in the pre NTL days, matty just regged a domain and sold it at the first opportunity.
Originally posted by Ramrod
and I don't think Frank got half this abuse did he?
Frank
infact he did get alot of abuse i was one i commended him for the excellent site he made but but aimed my dissatisfaction and anger at the sell out at him not abuse :rolleyes:
i respected him up until he did the deed...........
lets just hope this site does not go that way
Originally posted by kronas
infact he did get alot of abuse i was one i commended him for the excellent site he made but but aimed my dissatisfaction and anger at the sell out at him not abuse :rolleyes:
i respected him up until he did the deed...........
lets just hope this site does not go that way Somehow I don't think it will:D
Originally posted by Ramrod
...when you consider the relative sizes of the respective sites, and what about the second part of my post?
The difference was Frank stuck around and answered all the stick he recieved.
Originally posted by Russ D
The difference was Frank stuck around and answered all the stick he recieved. True:(
Originally posted by Ramrod
Somehow I don't think it will:D
i learned never say never and when it all boils down to it money talks morals ethics are thrown out of they window its give me the money and ill hand it over :rolleyes:
Originally posted by kronas
i learned never say never and when it all boils down to it money talks morals ethics are thrown out of they window its give me the money and ill hand it over :rolleyes:
And it won't happen here.
Originally posted by Andre
At least Frank stayed around and tried to make a difference-isn't community his doing anyway? Didn't he stay around because it was his job to?:confused:
Originally posted by Ramrod
Didn't he stay around because it was his job to?:confused:
It wasn't his job to stick around on nthw.com and face all the flack.
I think that we have to agree to disagree:)
Originally posted by Andre
Who are you replying to? :confused:
lol, this entire thread:D
Lord Nikon
08-08-2003, 22:33
So you are saying your integrity has a price Ramrod?
It's a shame that looking at this (http://www.nthellworld.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=497247#post497247) it would appear that Matty won't be found here again....
Originally posted by Russ D
It's a shame that looking at this (http://www.nthellworld.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=497247#post497247) it would appear that Matty won't be found here again....
omg a typical sell out comment.............
Lord Nikon
08-08-2003, 22:41
Perhaps he has the same problem distinguishing between cat & horse as he does with integrity and selling out... lol
btw - looks like even ntlhell have picked up on the situation....
Oh dear matty, looks like you will have to stay with .com for the moment.... I think your welcome won't be as warm elsewhere
And with there being no problems with ntl: tonight, they have found something else to moan about
Oh really? No problems with NTL? What about this (http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=35863#post35863) thread? Or this (http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=35815#post35815)? Or this (http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=35683#post35683)? Or this (http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=35679#post35679)?
The situation with Frank and .com is completely different. Yes, Frank sold the site to NTL, but I think he was genuinely convinced by what they had told him: that it was going to be transformed into something which could be of even more help to the users (and to a certain extent, it has done so).
What Matty did was to register a domain deliberately similar to a site NTL wanted to launch. If NTL announced that they were going to launch a mobile phone service, would it be okay for me to instantly go out and register ntlmobile.com? Of course not.
Originally posted by Lord Nikon
So you are saying your integrity has a price Ramrod? Lol, I was waiting for this.:D
I think (and I realise that I am in a minority here) that mattys site was a dead site. As such it matters not who he sold it to, or indeed why. Therefore integrity dosn't come into this equation. I have already said that I would be against this site being sold and integrity does come into this, as .co.uk is a busy vibrant site and a viable alternative to community or even .com.
So, no, my integrity dosn't have a price.:)
Originally posted by Tristan
What Matty did was to register a domain deliberately similar to a site NTL wanted to launch. If NTL announced that they were going to launch a mobile phone service, would it be okay for me to instantly go out and register ntlmobile.com? Of course not. I thought that the big problem here was with matty selling out to ntl. The cybersquatting accusation is a different issue.
I have different views on that one.
homealone
08-08-2003, 22:53
sorry in advance, but I have to say this. If I am out of order I will not protest it's deletion.
Whatever the issue involved here I think the treatment of Matty in this thread has been appalling!
Once he had said he had sold the domain any further comment could (& should - imo) have gone to pm.
I posted in defence of another member earlier and reported a post, because I felt inappropriate comments had been made. In all conscience I can't see this treatment of matty is any different?
Originally posted by Ramrod
Lol, I was waiting for this.:D
I think (and I realise that I am in a minority here) that mattys site was a dead site. As such it matters not who he sold it to, or indeed why. Therefore integrity dosn't come into this equation. I have already said that I would be against this site being sold and integrity does come into this, as .co.uk is a busy vibrant site and a viable alternative to community or even .com.
So, no, my integrity dosn't have a price.:)
I have to agree, It certainly was a dead site, If you dont mind me saying matty. And, If it was tottaly out of response to this, that he decided to sell it.. Then fair do's :)
But.. If he deliberatly bought the domain, hoping NTL would buy it off him for a "undisclosed fee" Some time in the future.. then thats wrong, and shows a complete disrespect to the focal point of his site, helping customers :td:
Originally posted by homealone
sorry in advance, but I have to say this. If I am out of order I will not protest it's deletion.
Whatever the issue involved here I think the treatment of Matty in this thread has been appalling!
Once he had said he had sold the domain any further comment could (& should - imo) have gone to pm.
I posted in defence of another member earlier and reported a post, because I felt inappropriate comments had been made. In all conscience I can't see this treatment of matty is any different?
What I think has raised the ire of most people is that he is not responding to his detractors. Say whatever you want about Frank but he answered just about all of this critics. Matty has appeared to make it clear that he no longer wants anything to do with .co.uk so has chosen to not make any response to our points.
Originally posted by Steve_NTL
I have to agree, It certainly was a dead site, If you dont mind me saying matty. And, If it was tottaly out of response to this, that he decided to sell it.. Then fair do's :)
But.. If he deliberatly bought the domain, hoping NTL would buy it off him for a "undisclosed fee" Some time in the future.. then thats wrong, and shows a complete disrespect to the focal point of his site, helping customers :td: Agreed:)
...and I'm off to bed now. Will catch up tomorrow night (out all day tomorrow) night all!:)
Originally posted by Ramrod
I thought that the big problem here was with matty selling out to ntl. The cybersquatting accusation is a different issue.
I have different views on that one.
If the alternative to selling a dead domain is to be taken to court for it, what would you do?
Lord Nikon
08-08-2003, 23:03
Surrender the domain back to internic before selling to NTL.
Put a disclaimer (such as the one on this site) stating that this site is not affiliated to NTL and makes no claim to be so
I think I must be invisible.:rolleyes:
I pointed this out last night in this other thread at http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1637&perpage=15&pagenumber=2
I think it must be because I'm a female.:shrug:
Incog.
Originally posted by Incognitas
I think I must be invisible.:rolleyes:
I pointed this out last night in this other thread at http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1637&perpage=15&pagenumber=2
I think it must be because I'm a female.:shrug:
Incog.
Lololol this reminds me of that sketch on the Fast Show when some guy is locked out of his car and all his mates are trying to open it for him, a passing woman says that because he's got central locking if you cut a tennis ball in half and put one section over the keyhole you can 'pop' the CL in to opening the car.
They all totally ignore her until one of his mates says,"You've got central locking right? Well if you cut a tennis ball in half......." :D :D :D
Man do I know how to kill the momentum of a thread or what..... :cry:
Originally posted by Russ D
Man do I know how to kill the momentum of a thread or what..... :cry:
If you're that worried about reprisals, you could delete your posts.... i mean.. it has been done before :p ;)
Originally posted by kink
If you're that worried about reprisals, you could delete your posts.... i mean.. it has been done before :p ;)
:LOL:
Hmmm...Kink's getting a little too big for her thigh-length boots.. :D
Back OT now I think :)
MovedGoalPosts
09-08-2003, 01:01
Hmm, bottom line is that a site owned and controlled by an individual can easily be transferred, if the owner is made an offer he can't refuse.
I think the concept the ntlcommunity.com was registered as a spolier for the real community site is valid. I'm sure the lawyers would eventually have made mincemeat of any other argument if it had gone that far, and at that stage only the lawyers would have got anything from it. I for one had gone to that domain initially (since ntl choose not to clearly publish the real location of community).
As soon as the community debacle was public, there were a whole rash of new sites set up, including this one (ok the domain has been registered for sometime, and yes mistakenly, before this site was active, I had come to the page typing .co.uk, not .com).
By all means criticise the owner for his sell out. What is important now is to ensure that other sites independent of ntl do not get swallowed up by them when they too are a thorn in their side.
OK I'm going slightly off topic now but, the domain of anticap, albeit originally registered by an individual, part of the team is now in the ownership of the campaign according to our articels of association. Therefore it requires the organisation to agree to sell out, something which is unlikely. Even if there is agreement for the sell out, the original registrant has the right of first refusal on what to do with the domain if anticap gives up the rights to it.
OK anticap is critical of ntl (and would be too of other ISPs if they wanted to cross swords an apply a cap) but the domain name is not a spoiler in the same way as community was, or even this nthw.co.uk could be.
No offence meant but, I know you say you wont sell out, but waht real safeguards to this are there?
I have to say, I find all this talk about "selling out" most peculiar. for some reason, people seem to be assuming that NTL are different from any other big company.
For example, I notice the domain asdahomeshopping.com (and .co.uk, actually) is unregistered. Now if ASDA announced they were going to start a home shopping service, and I went out and bought these domains (using them for pages telling people to go and shop at Tesco instead), how long do you think it'd be before I heard from WalMart's lawyers?
NTL would have gotten the domain in court, if it had got that far. I don't see how Matty has "sold out" -- all he's done is saved himself the pain in the arse of legal preceedings, and as a bonus made a couple of quid. Would it make it more palettable to consider it an out of court settlement?
And would the matter be different if he had just handed NTL the domain for free, so as to avoid all the legal bother? If so, why?
Hell, for all we know, NTL have just reimbursed the registration fee Matty paid for the domain in the first place (£40 is it?)
Lord Nikon
09-08-2003, 02:45
Well, the pertinent points would seem to be this.
i) he sold out
ii) He didn't come here and say "look guys, I think the ntlcommunity domain name is on shaky ground, I am gonna let NTL have it and open a new one...
iii) he didn't come here and say "the ntlcommunity domain has been sold, can't say how much for, but its no longer mine"
iv) We only found out by doing a DNS lookup etc and checking
v) he couldn't explain why, and when we asked him about it he deleted his posts and left
vi) If, as he originally said he wanted it to be independent, and he was looking at legal action, why not let Andre take it (for a fee)
He was underhanded about the transaction and didn't even have the courtesy to tell people who moderated the site, or helped him set it up.
Originally posted by Lord Nikon
Well, the pertinent points would seem to be this.
i) he sold out
ii) He didn't come here and say "look guys, I think the ntlcommunity domain name is on shaky ground, I am gonna let NTL have it and open a new one...
iii) he didn't come here and say "the ntlcommunity domain has been sold, can't say how much for, but its no longer mine"
iv) We only found out by doing a DNS lookup etc and checking
v) he couldn't explain why, and when we asked him about it he deleted his posts and left
vi) If, as he originally said he wanted it to be independent, and he was looking at legal action, why not let Andre take it (for a fee)
Perhaps the most accurate description of the matter so far IMO.
I know you say you wont sell out, but waht real safeguards to this are there?
All we can offer you on this is our word for what it means to you. I think it's fair to say that I have never let anyone down on here or .com so please take that in to consideration.
Stuart W
09-08-2003, 10:04
OK... lets say I buy the domail www.thentlcommunitysite.com.
I set up a vBulletin forum to discuss / slate nlt.
If I have a nice big visible disclaimer explaining CLEARLY that this site is neither indorsed by or anything to do with ntl, and provide a link to the genuine ntlcommuniuty site, what's the problem?
I can only see it as a problem if a user could percieve that they are at a genuine ntl site and not be corrected.
Now... someones example... Lets say Asda anounce home shopping. I register the domain www.asdahomeshopping.com.
If I just leave the domain parked but do nothing else, this is naughty. If however, I immediatly launch the site with the nice big "we are NOT asda" notice and have a forum dedicated to the discussion of the pros and cons of Asda stepping in to the home shopping market, that is fine.
All I need to do is make it very clear that my sitre is nothing to do with Asda / ntl / whoever and prvide a link to the 'propper' site.
I'd be prepared to take on *any* big company's legal team on this one.
[User Addition] I wouldn't be scared off by 'official' letters from big wig solicitors. I know my rights.
hawkmoon
09-08-2003, 13:13
Originally posted by Ramrod
still a drop in the ocean and it's a self limiting process, it can't happen much.:)
Might be a drop in the ocean, but at a time that NTL is using lack of money to defend why it is not improving certain parts of their network - it is a little insulting to those customers that they feel the need to spend the money (regardless of how little) on this.
Originally posted by Stuart W
OK... lets say I buy the domail www.thentlcommunitysite.com.
I set up a vBulletin forum to discuss / slate nlt.
If I have a nice big visible disclaimer explaining CLEARLY that this site is neither indorsed by or anything to do with ntl, and provide a link to the genuine ntlcommuniuty site, what's the problem?
I can only see it as a problem if a user could percieve that they are at a genuine ntl site and not be corrected.
Now... someones example... Lets say Asda anounce home shopping. I register the domain www.asdahomeshopping.com.
If I just leave the domain parked but do nothing else, this is naughty. If however, I immediatly launch the site with the nice big "we are NOT asda" notice and have a forum dedicated to the discussion of the pros and cons of Asda stepping in to the home shopping market, that is fine.
All I need to do is make it very clear that my sitre is nothing to do with Asda / ntl / whoever and prvide a link to the 'propper' site.
I'd be prepared to take on *any* big company's legal team on this one.
[User Addition] I wouldn't be scared off by 'official' letters from big wig solicitors. I know my rights.
Yes, but the new European laws say that you're not allowed to use trademarks in domain names, and that if you do, then the owner of the trademark is entitled to come and bitch-slap you.
In any case, the example I gave was a little wide of the mark. Lets say instead that Asda announced a home shopping service that there were going to call "Asda 2 You". If I went and registered asda2you.com after this announcement, then I wouldn't be entitled to the domain, regardless of the content.
Are you really saying you would have allowed NTL to take you to court? Why such a fuss over what was effectively a dead domain anyway?
Stuart W
09-08-2003, 14:22
Originally posted by Tristan
Yes, but the new European laws say that you're not allowed to use trademarks in domain names, and that if you do, then the owner of the trademark is entitled to come and bitch-slap you.
so I'd go for www.nthellcommunitly.com
In any case, the example I gave was a little wide of the mark. Lets say instead that Asda announced a home shopping service that there were going to call "Asda 2 You". If I went and registered asda2you.com after this announcement, then I wouldn't be entitled to the domain, regardless of the content.
Fair enough, but community.ntl.com is a different address to www.ntlcommunity.com
Are you really saying you would have allowed NTL to take you to court? Why such a fuss over what was effectively a dead domain anyway?
Kind of, I'm saying if I had the domain, I'd have used it to help customers. Whenever ntl want to close / buy me out I'd fight with every last penny. I'd also see that it got maximum publicity.
hawkmoon
09-08-2003, 15:56
Originally posted by Tristan
Yes, but the new European laws say that you're not allowed to use trademarks in domain names, and that if you do, then the owner of the trademark is entitled to come and bitch-slap you.
Only problem with this is that NTL aren't the only ones to use the name NTL - there is also the NTL Institute established 1947 (www.ntl.org).
Besides if ntlcommunity.com can be proven to be a forum for the use of NTL customers (therefore a community site and a valid use of the name) NTL (the cable company) would not have automatic rights to the domain. Also if the domain in question is not commercial then it becomes even more difficult. Cybersquatting only really applies where there the domain was bought in bad faith - for example if the owner was then going to try and sell it back to the company.
Undisputedtruth
09-08-2003, 17:57
I certainly don't think Matty is a sellout. Afterall he is an NTL employee. Did he appreciate the concerns of genuine customers? Of course not. So on that basis alone he is not a sellout.
There are no websites where genuine customers can discuss NTL without attack from the proNTL mob. Certain threads have become an embarrassment such as "On topic London broadband" where it is largely posted by proNTL mob (mainly employees).
Ever since Frank has sold out to NTL, there have not been an adequate replacement which meets the needs of genuine customers. In my view, it is Frank that has sold out. I don't hold anything against him.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
I certainly don't think Matty is a sellout. Afterall he is an NTL employee. Did he appreciate the concerns of genuine customers? Of course not. So on that basis alone he is not a sellout.
There are no websites where genuine customers can discuss NTL without attack from the proNTL mob. Certain threads have become an embarrassment such as "On topic London broadband" where it is largely posted by proNTL mob (mainly employees).
Ever since Frank has sold out to NTL, there have not been an adequate replacement which meets the needs of genuine customers. In my view, it is Frank that has sold out. I don't hold anything against him.
You always manage to go off topic and drag in your own particular beef with NTL in every thread I've ever seen you post.You are very good at sticking the knife into people that the thread isn't even about as well.:(
Incog about to unsubscribe before she starts the troll like behaviour.
Same thing happened with ntlhome.com (jammy git, why didn't I think of that? :D )
An employee got wind, bought the domain, and sold it to NTL
Originally posted by hawkmoon
Might be a drop in the ocean, but at a time that NTL is using lack of money to defend why it is not improving certain parts of their network - it is a little insulting to those customers that they feel the need to spend the money (regardless of how little) on this. But it costs millions to improve their network, buying the site cost them a few thousand. They probably spend more on pens every year. It's small change to them. They could buy thousands of sites like that and still not make an impact on the funding needed to upgrade.
carlingman
10-08-2003, 01:33
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth snip
I certainly don't think Matty is a sellout. Afterall he is an NTL employee. Did he appreciate the concerns of genuine customers? Of course not. So on that basis alone he is not a sellout.
Suggest you get your facts rights there.
Matty is not as far as I know an NTL Employee unless he has had a job thrown into the buyout deal.
:)
Lord Nikon
10-08-2003, 03:03
Ramrod,
it costs less to perform routing maintenance during slack system hours than to pay an engineer to do an emergency repair during peak hours and then compensate the people who complain about loss of service.
This would be a more valid expenditure of funds....
Buying another site which is against them is a waste of funds, makes more sense to start to rectify the problems...
I am sure even Andre would agree that the best possible result would be to see this site, and the other sites rendered redundant by NTL actually getting things sorted out.
Originally posted by Lord Nikon
Ramrod,
it costs less to perform routing maintenance during slack system hours than to pay an engineer to do an emergency repair during peak hours and then compensate the people who complain about loss of service.
This would be a more valid expenditure of funds....
Buying another site which is against them is a waste of funds, makes more sense to start to rectify the problems...
I am sure even Andre would agree that the best possible result would be to see this site, and the other sites rendered redundant by NTL actually getting things sorted out.
I totally agree. My only point was that it is a drop in the ocean for them.
KingPhoenix
11-08-2003, 17:27
Sorry to bring this topic up again but.....
Website Title: ntl community
Server Type: Apache/1.3.27 (Unix) PHP/4.2.3 (Spry.com also uses Apache)
Website Status: Active
Reverse IP: Web server hosts 5 websites (reverse ip tool requires free login)
IP Address: 207.44.194.150 (ARIN & RIPE IP search)
IP Location: United States - California - San Francisco - Everyones Internet Inc
Visit Website: www.ntlcommunity.com
Record Type: Domain Name
The interesting part is...
Status: PROTECTED
Note: To help prevent malicious domain hijacking and domain
transfer errors, the registrar has protected the registrant
of this domain name registrant by locking it. Any attempted
transfers will be denied at the registry until the registrant
requests otherwise. The registrant for the name may unlock
the name at any time at the current registrar in order for
a transfer initiation to succeed
Matty has protected the domain name, thus making it non transferable at this time.....
:confused:
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