Too old/infirm to drive?

[Jon M]

One of those subjects that comes up every so often, but brought to my attention abruptly this week.

I was on the way home down the A4 between Newbury and Theale, following a dark blue peugot 306.
All seemed normal until the 306 started drifting slowly left and eventually hit the curb and swerved back into the middle of the lane.

I was obviously very careful to give this driver a lot of space now, but could easily see that it was an older lady driver, in the stereotypical wheel hugging posture.

I kept watching, and as I did so, she started drifting into the middle (right) I was just about to start flashing and hitting my horn when she suddenly swerved again back to the correct line.
She continued doing this for about 3 miles.
It seems she was not able to see well enough where she was going, as the drifting was only corrected when she either bumped the curb or ran over cats eyes in the centre. Consistently on every bend of the road, she would lose her driving line.

What was most worrying though was that she wasn't doing the normal 20mph of a standard geriatric whilst doing all this, but closer to 50!!

Now, the point I'm getting to is that I've for a long time been of the opinion that drivers over 50 or 60 should at least have mandatory medical checks or even be periodically re-tested full stop.
I saw my late granddad doing very similar things and almost causing an accident while I watched him, thankfully he made the sensible decision to stop driving not long after that.

I'm not saying that old = bad driver, far from it, there are extremly bad drivers from every age group. My argument is that medically, a driver needs to be fully capable, otherwise they're putting themselves and others at risk.

Your thoughts please.

[gary_580]

I think people should have to pass some sort of driving test to demonstrate their safety every 5-10 years. Its ridiculous that you pass your test and then after that your allowed to drive until your 75, untested as well. (i think its 75)

[gazzae]

I think that overall driving tests need to be more advanced. Make them tougher. I drive a lot, and the amount of people I see who don't even know how a simple roundabout works is shocking!

I'm lucky, touch wood, that in my 7 years of driving not to have a single accident. But the amount of near misses I've had is scary! Mostly from people who are in the wrong bloody lane on a roundabout and decide to cut across me to make their exit!

With regards to older people, I don't really think they worse drivers, some are but as you say thats the same as every age group. Maybe everyone should have to do a refresher test every 10 years or so.

[Nugget]

Isn't it once you reach 70 that you have to have various checks (*rummages in coat pocket to find licence*) - yep, my licence expires the day before my 70th birthday.

One of the problems with some older drivers is what they learnt in. A great uncle of mine learnt to drive during the war, so he learnt in a tank! Unfortunately, as he got older, he had a tendency to drive everything like a tank, which was a slight problem (none of the rest of the family would get in the car with him).

At the end of the day, as long as you're fit and healthy (with good eyesight etc), I see no reason why you shouldn't carry on driving until you want to stop but, as with all age groups, there really are some appalling drivers who 'spoil the record'.

[orangebird]

One of those subjects that comes up every so often, but brought to my attention abruptly this week.

I was on the way home down the A4 between Newbury and Theale, following a dark blue peugot 306.
All seemed normal until the 306 started drifting slowly left and eventually hit the curb and swerved back into the middle of the lane.

I was obviously very careful to give this driver a lot of space now, but could easily see that it was an older lady driver, in the stereotypical wheel hugging posture.

I kept watching, and as I did so, she started drifting into the middle (right) I was just about to start flashing and hitting my horn when she suddenly swerved again back to the correct line.
She continued doing this for about 3 miles.
It seems she was not able to see well enough where she was going, as the drifting was only corrected when she either bumped the curb or ran over cats eyes in the centre. Consistently on every bend of the road, she would lose her driving line.

What was most worrying though was that she wasn't doing the normal 20mph of a standard geriatric whilst doing all this, but closer to 50!!

Now, the point I'm getting to is that I've for a long time been of the opinion that drivers over 50 or 60 should at least have mandatory medical checks or even be periodically re-tested full stop.
I saw my late granddad doing very similar things and almost causing an accident while I watched him, thankfully he made the sensible decision to stop driving not long after that.

I'm not saying that old = bad driver, far from it, there are extremly bad drivers from every age group. My argument is that medically, a driver needs to be fully capable, otherwise they're putting themselves and others at risk.

Your thoughts please.

Agreed entirely - Risking being ageist here, but a lot of older drivers (I'm talking late 60's, early 70's) don't seem to have the ability to weigh up dangers, think ahead of their actions etc etc. An old lady I used to live near almost killed herself, pulling out of her driveway on the bend of a fast road and not speeding up over approx 20mph... cars travelling along this road (the A342) didn't have a hope in hell of slowing down enough not to hit her (even if they were only travelling along at 40-50mph....I also find it bloody infuriating when OAPs in their new cars insist on driving everywhere at 40 mph - thorugh 30 zones, on motorways, minor roads etc etc. In my mid this kind of driving is just as dangerous as careless driving/speeding etc....

[Maggy]

Ummm! As a 51 year old female driver I think that everyone should have a mandatory eyesight test that is rather better than the "can you read that number plate over there" which was all that I was obliged to pass when I took my driving test back in 1990.

If one is fit,has good eye sight and passed a driving test then I think you should be allowed to drive.However once one reaches say 50/60 perhaps there should be some test based as much on physical capability as on knowledge of the road.One's reaction times do slow down with age after all.

Incog. :)

[gary_580]

Have you ever noticed that most of the dodery and dangerous drivers wear a cap whilst driving

[Maggy]

Have you ever noticed that most of the dodery and dangerous drivers wear a cap whilst driving

Phew! That lets me off then. ;)

[gary_580]

Ummm! As a 51 year old female driver I think that everyone should have a mandatory eyesight test that is rather better than the "can you read that number plate over there" which was all that I was obliged to pass when I took my driving test back in 1990.

If one is fit,has good eye sight and passed a driving test then I think you should be allowed to drive.However once one reaches say 50/60 perhaps there should be some test based as much on physical capability as on knowledge of the road.One's reaction times do slow down with age after all.

Incog. :)

people do also pick up bad habits that become their normal driving style which could be dangerous. 5-10 year testing could help correct this. Some people are dangerous and dont actually realise they are.

[ian@huth]

Agreed entirely - Risking being ageist here, but a lot of older drivers (I'm talking late 60's, early 70's) don't seem to have the ability to weigh up dangers, think ahead of their actions etc etc. An old lady I used to live near almost killed herself, pulling out of her driveway on the bend of a fast road and not speeding up over approx 20mph... cars travelling along this road (the A342) didn't have a hope in hell of slowing down enough not to hit her (even if they were only travelling along at 40-50mph....I also find it bloody infuriating when OAPs in their new cars insist on driving everywhere at 40 mph - thorugh 30 zones, on motorways, minor roads etc etc. In my mid this kind of driving is just as dangerous as careless driving/speeding etc....

Don't forget that not having a hope in hell of slowing down enough not to hit her means that the drivers were not driving to their ability to avoid an accident. Most younger drivers believe that they have superb reaction times and that this is enough to enable them to avoid any accident unless a doddery old fool gets in the way. They also take it that any speed limit is there as the minimum speed that everyone should be driving at. The reality is that you should drive according to road conditions and in a manner that you can avoid any potential hazard that may present itself. Just have a look at insurance premiums to see which age groups are most likely to be involved in RTAs and which age groups get the cheapest preiums.

[Nugget]

Phew! That lets me off then. ;)

Do you drive in disguise then, Incog? ;) :jk:

[zoombini]

It would be good if there was a "report a bad driver" line, where other drivers could take the number plate & report it (after pulling over to use the phone).

Too often we see someone really bad etc & they can just continue doing so because there is never a police car around when they do this.

[willo]

I think the onus should be taken off the doctors in deciding if someone should keep their license when they are knocking on a bit. A family doctor may be influenced by other considerations, for example they may be swayed form taking a license away if they know that the person was very reliant on their car.

[mrmassive]

I waz returning from skeggy to Lincoln and i had to break hard when you come across 2 ol biddies in a car doing 20 on a 60 limit road

[mrmassive]

I think the onus should be taken off the doctors in deciding if someone should keep their license when they are knocking on a bit. A family doctor may be influenced by other considerations, for example they may be swayed form taking a license away if they know that the person was very reliant on their car.

Don't you mean driving round in a Robin Relaint. :D

[gazzae]

Don't forget that not having a hope in hell of slowing down enough not to hit her means that the drivers were not driving to their ability to avoid an accident. Most younger drivers believe that they have superb reaction times and that this is enough to enable them to avoid any accident unless a doddery old fool gets in the way. They also take it that any speed limit is there as the minimum speed that everyone should be driving at. The reality is that you should drive according to road conditions and in a manner that you can avoid any potential hazard that may present itself. Just have a look at insurance premiums to see which age groups are most likely to be involved in RTAs and which age groups get the cheapest preiums.

True. But when drivers pull out onto a fast moving stretch of road they have a responsibility to ensure that they acceleratate to a safe speed for the road as quickly as possible (and safely).

[gary_580]

I waz returning from skeggy to Lincoln and i had to break hard when you come across 2 ol biddies in a car doing 20 on a 60 limit road

You only had to brake hard because you had poor awareness of other road users.

[orangebird]

You only had to brake hard because you had poor awareness of other road users.

BUt what about the old biddies awareness of other peoples speeds? On a major road? 20mph in a national speed limit area is just as dangerous as 80mph....

[Maggy]

BUt what about the old biddies awareness of other peoples speeds? On a major road? 20mph in a national speed limit area is just as dangerous as 80mph....

Hang on! The speed LIMIT is just that.A limit or maximum speed.Nowhere in the Highway code does it state that one shall drive to the maximum speed on every road.Surely that is at the discretion of the individual driver.I agree that driving at 20 miles an hour just may push some speed freak do something stupid but that would be the said SF's fault.I believe the guidelines are to adapt to the prevailing driving conditions.

Incog.

[gary_580]

BUt what about the old biddies awareness of other peoples speeds? On a major road? 20mph in a national speed limit area is just as dangerous as 80mph....

Unlike the USA there is no minimum speed limit on our roads. Yes i agree its dangerous but they are not doing anything wrong and if you approach them and havent noticed they are going so slow then your at fault.

[punky]

Hang on! The speed LIMIT is just that.A limit or maximum speed.Nowhere in the Highway code does it state that one shall drive to the maximum speed on every road.Surely that is at the discretion of the individual driver.I agree that driving at 20 miles an hour just may push some speed freak do something stupid but that would be the said SF's fault.I believe the guidelines are to adapt to the prevailing driving conditions.

Incog.

I beg to differ. Retake your test and do 20mph in a 60mph zone and see if you pass. It's called (using their woods) "making reasonable prgress" In perfect conditions you should drive within 5mph of the limit. As conditions worsen, then that figure should be increased obviously.

On the older drivers issue: No amount of testing can weed out medically unfit drivers. People's sight, along with their coordination, etc can come in and out. If they are tested on a good day, it can hide serious problems that might affect them on others. It has to be run on an honour system, and try and make sure that older drivers know when to quit. Maybe back it up with a big ad campaign, and stiff punishments for people caught driving too visually impaired or lacking sufficient coordination.

[paulyoung666]

Unlike the USA there is no minimum speed limit on our roads. Yes i agree its dangerous but they are not doing anything wrong and if you approach them and havent noticed they are going so slow then your at fault.


i am sure i have seen minimum speed limits posted at various places , i must admit to not being able to remeber where though , a bridge somewhere seems to ring a bell , for my tuppence i would like to see 3 yearly tests to weed out the bad drivers :tu:

edit :- i was right (http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/legal/speeding.html) ;)

[zoombini]

Don't you mean driving round in a Robin Relaint. :D
If I can be pedantic here, its actually a "Reliant Robin". :D

And they are capable of 70MPH & can leave many ordinary cars standing in town traffic.

[Steve H]

It would be good if there was a "report a bad driver" line, where other drivers could take the number plate & report it (after pulling over to use the phone).

Too often we see someone really bad etc & they can just continue doing so because there is never a police car around when they do this.

lol.. good idea in principal but the abuse ratio of it would be huge.

[ZrByte]

If I can be pedantic here, its actually a "Reliant Robin". :D

And they are capable of 70MPH & can leave many ordinary cars standing in town traffic.

They need to make a new version of the Reliant Robin, something like the new mini or Beetle, I know plenty of people who would buy one :D

[paulyoung666]

They need to make a new version of the Reliant Robin, something like the new mini or Beetle, I know plenty of people who would buy one :D

keep taking the tablets they will work eventually :erm: :D :D :D :D

[swoop101]

If I can be pedantic here, its actually a "Reliant Robin". :D

And they are capable of 70MPH & can leave many ordinary cars standing in town traffic.

Years ago, a few of us were in a 'non-standard' vehicle coming back from a race meeting when we came up behind a Reliant. Lets just say that it was doing considerably more than 70 :Yikes: It was vibrating so hard that it looked out of focus. We then decided to give it a wide berth before it exploded.

On the issue of elderly drivers:
I have had, on two occasions, the unenviable task of persuading elderly relatives that it would be in their own interests to stop driving themselves because of failing capabilities. :(
The most heart breaking thing was when they understood and realized that this was the sensible thing to do. They suddenly found their Independence severely restricted, but they soon found other ways of doing the things they want.( usually ringing me up to give them a lift :mad: :rolleyes: )
This is a very emotive subject but it needs to be discussed for the safety of everyone on the roads (and pavements in some instances)

[Maggy]

Years ago, a few of us were in a 'non-standard' vehicle coming back from a race meeting when we came up behind a Reliant. Lets just say that it was doing considerably more than 70 :Yikes: It was vibrating so hard that it looked out of focus. We then decided to give it a wide berth before it exploded.

On the issue of elderly drivers:
I have had, on two occasions, the unenviable task of persuading elderly relatives that it would be in their own interests to stop driving themselves because of failing capabilities. :(
The most heart breaking thing was when they understood and realized that this was the sensible thing to do. They suddenly found their Independence severely restricted, but they soon found other ways of doing the things they want.( usually ringing me up to give them a lift :mad: :rolleyes: )
This is a very emotive subject but it needs to be discussed for the safety of everyone on the roads (and pavements in some instances)

OK so what are we going to do about the elderly who give up their cars for a mobile shopper?Some of the driving and steering of those things is unbelievable especially at some of the speeds they get up to.Then they get driven in the road by some elderly folk which is even more of a hazard.

Perhaps we just need a more reliable public transport?One that takes the elderly wherever they want to go without it costing an arm and a leg.

[swoop101]

The only way to get the public transport systems working better is to partly re-regulate them to spread and control the services better, and to get a large percentage of people out of their cars.
The Government need to stop pratting about and get some money into the bus industry instead of only giving it to the railways, this could help companies replace older vehicles and reduce prices.
There is too much political bias for the railways, and not enough towards the buses. After all it is the bus that goes past the homes to take people to the shops and trains.
The bus and train companies are too concerned with giving the shareholders a bucket full of money instead of putting it back into the infrastructure.


enough, I am going to bed. :sleep:

[paulyoung666]

they should never have been deregulated , same as the railways should never have been ;)

[ZrByte]

keep taking the tablets they will work eventually :erm: :D :D :D :D

I dont take those tablets anymore, they make me look wierd :Yikes: :disturbd:

[swoop101]

they should never have been deregulated , same as the railways should never have been ;)

They could not carry on as they were before, but it should have been a very controlled,limited, relaxation of the regulations to allow private operators to take over running of the systems.
The 'old' way wasted most of any money available by nobody being accountable for the ridiculous excesses that went on (£15 for a 2" paint brush, £2.50 for a small roll of masking tape, £10 for a standard string mop).

[ntluser]

I think we can all agree that irrespective of your age you have to meet the legal physical fitness requirements when driving.

I'm in favour of re-testing so that drivers are aware of the need to be fit to drive and the public at large is kept safer by the removal of unfit drivers from the road.

Though being able to read a number plate at 25 yards is well known requirement, maybe we ought to consider setting annd enforcing other minimum driving fitness requirements.

Perhaps too we should consider a psychological component to driving fitness as there are some drivers out there who are temperamentally unsuited to driving.

There's no reason why elderly people should not drive provided they meet the necessary driving requirements.

[gazzae]

Do pensioners get free travel on public transport over in england? I know my gran does, might just be an northern ireland thing though.

[swoop101]

Do pensioners get free travel on public transport over in england? I know my gran does, might just be an northern ireland thing though.

Some do, some don't. It depends on the local authority.
Here in Manchester it is half fare up to 40p then that is the maximum they pay, In Cheshire it is half fare.

[ZrByte]

Perhaps too we should consider a psychological component to driving fitness as there are some drivers out there who are temperamentally unsuited to driving.

Deffinatley agree with that, the amount of times I have nearly been run down on my motorbike by an insane driver who seemed fine just seconds before but then suddenly snapped is quite shocking, Most of these drivers I would guess where in the 25 - 45 range. I know I can get angry sometimes but I dont let it affect my driving, I certainly dont drive into oncoming traffic and try to run motorbikes off the road like what one of them tried to do to me :Yikes: