Can't send attachments - V poor upload problem

[Ashover]

Ever since NTL decided to have a day of last week, I have been unable to send attachments or upload files to my websites. The predictable response from NTL was that it was nothing to do with them, it was my anti virus software or firewall even though disabling them makes absolutely no difference.
Being so pigged off, I did an online speed test which showed downstream speeds of over 700 kps, but an upstream speed of only 16kps.
Any ideas anyone? I'm no expert but it does seem that the NTL help wallahs aren't going to be much use to me and I would like to resume sending email attachments.

[Bifta]

What happens when you try to send attached files? What email client are you using? What OS are you using? If you're on the 600 (or whatever speed it is now) service with NTL, then 16kbps upload is perfectly normal.

[Ashover]

I'm using Outlook Express 6 on Windows 98 SE. It initially starts to send the mail and I get the following error message.


Your server has unexpectedly terminated the connection. Possible causes for this include server problems, network problems, or a long period of inactivity. Subject '', Account: 'xxxxxx', Server: 'smtp.ntlworld.com', Protocol: SMTP, Port: 25, Secure(SSL): No, Socket Error: 10054, Error Number: 0x800CCC0F

I'm not part of a network and haven't changed or added anything since before these problems began.

[Bifta]

I'm using Outlook Express 6 on Windows 98 SE. It initially starts to send the mail and I get the following error message.


Your server has unexpectedly terminated the connection. Possible causes for this include server problems, network problems, or a long period of inactivity. Subject '', Account: 'xxxxxx', Server: 'smtp.ntlworld.com', Protocol: SMTP, Port: 25, Secure(SSL): No, Socket Error: 10054, Error Number: 0x800CCC0F

I'm not part of a network and haven't changed or added anything since before these problems began.

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=813514 it seems to infer that actually uninstalling your AV software, testing, then reinstalling might cure the problem.

[Jon M]

The alternative is to use a good email client like thunderbird http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/ which can import all your mail from OE6.

[Tech_Boy]

I wouldn't run Ie or Oe 6 on anything but Xp, I have seen them cause so many problems in both flavours of 98 and Me.

M$ seemed to have fixed most of the problems with Ie6 sp1, but I still wouldn't risk it.

Tech_Boy

[Ashover]

I have unistalled my AV software and it made no difference. This problem only started after NTL upgraded me - everything was fine before that. Now, even a simple text email takes a while to go.

I've tried to send files by Hotmail, but it times out before uploading them. My websites time out when uploading and I really am desperate to know whether or not NTL are to blame as it seems very little is allowed to be uploaded from my pc.

[Tezcatlipoca]

What happens when you try to send attached files? What email client are you using? What OS are you using? If you're on the 600 (or whatever speed it is now) service with NTL, then 16kbps upload is perfectly normal.

16kbps (kbit/sec, kilobits per sec) is not normal

16kB/sec would be normal (128kbps [128kbit/sec] is roughly 16kB/sec).

Ashover - Are you sure of the units for the speed test values you quoted?

You say "over 700 kps" for the download.... meaning over 700kbps (kilobits per sec), which is fine.

But for the upload, you say "16kps" (i.e. using the same units as for the download)...Do you mean 16kB per sec (kilobytes) or 16kb (kilobits)?

[Ashover]

The 16 kps refers to kilobits per seconds. There's a massive difference between upstream and downstream speeds and my opinion is that it's an NTL issue but I'm open to be proved wrong.

[Bifta]

The 16 kps refers to kilobits per seconds. There's a massive difference between upstream and downstream speeds and my opinion is that it's an NTL issue but I'm open to be proved wrong.

So are you uploading at 16 kilobytes or around 1.6 kilobytes a second? (make this easy for me as obviously I'm clueless when it comes to using the right acronyms).

[Ashover]

NTL refer to my speed as 750k which I assume is kilobits per second and the speed test proves that to be OK. The same measurement of kilobits per second is applied to the upload speed of 16kps but this should be in a range of 200 to 220 kps

[Bifta]

NTL refer to my speed as 750k which I assume is kilobits per second and the speed test proves that to be OK. The same measurement of kilobits per second is applied to the upload speed of 16kps but this should be in a range of 200 to 220 kps

ok, now you're confusing me further, kps = kilobytes per second, kbps = kilobits per second, how many kilobytes per second (not kilobits) are you able to transfer up? you should be able to get around 16kps, 16kbps as Matt D pointed out would be wrong and indicative of a problem.

[Ashover]

Sorry, it's late and I've had a drink! All of the figures are kbps, kilobits per second.

[Tezcatlipoca]

OK, so they're definitely all in kilobits per second?

In which case... your upload is awful :(


The "750k" service (750 kbps....kilobit per second) should have an upload of 128kbps (128 kilobits per second).

...Yet you appear to be getting only 16 kbps (16 kilobits per sec)!


Try this upload speed tester:

http://www.pcpitstop.com/internet/BandwidthUpTest.asp

I'm on the 1.5meg service (with a 256kbit/sec upload), & just got


Upload Speed 244 Kb/s

(where "Kb/s" = kilobits per second)

...Which is pretty good.


If your upload really is as bad as it seems from your earlier test, then it could be that your local UBR is oversubscribed.


Try phoning ntl again, & explain to them about your upload being so unbelievably poor.

Also, hopefully one of the ntl people here will see this thread & try to give you some help.


If it does definitely seem that the upload is the cause of your problem, I may well move this thread (& add a bit to the title) to the Broadband support forum - could get a better response there (& it would be the correct forum, if the problem is the upload, & not simply email problems).

[Web-Junkie]

Ashover, I'm having similar problems. I can't attach files to my Yahoo or Hotmail e-mails and can't upload files to my Yahoo briefcase. I also can't upload attachments with newsgroup posts! I'm in the Notts NG17 area!

See my post here:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=16465

I also wondered about the upstream speed being lowered to compensate for the higher downstream speed! I'm on the 600k > 750k service.

I tried using the speed test at adslguide but it won't complete the test, just sits there saying:

Starting speed test...
Do not use your connection until the test has finished.

How do I test my upstream speed online? I DO NOT want to download programs or plugins.

[Ashover]

Hi, I used that speed guide, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. My speed this morning was down to 9kbps!
I spent half an hour on the phone to NTL tech support today, but we're no further forward at present. I'll keep you posted.

[Web-Junkie]

Same here! See my post I linked to earlier to see how I got on!

[Paul]

That pitstop download test seems suspect. My CM is set to 1536000, other tests (like Robins and ntlhell) show my d/l speed at 1500kbps - Yet pitstop constantly reports 1053kbps (or similar). :rolleyes:

[Web-Junkie]

Try the one at www.testmy.net (http://www.testmy.net), I found that to be OK!

[Ashover]

It gave me a reading of 11kpbs! I really am at my wits end with this. I've got a website to update today and I can't upload any files!

[Ashover]

I've just had an interesting conversation with a friend who lives nearby. Guess what? Yes, he's got exactly the same problem and he also knows someone else nearby who is also suffering.
Given all of this, why does tech support suspect that my pc is the problem?

[Web-Junkie]

Yep, same here. Just been to mates house 2 streets away and same problem on a totally different PC, modem and green box, he can't upload file attachments 100% of the time. Files sometimes upload, sometimes they don't, anything over about 1.5mb just won't upload. I even took my PC and modem down and the same thing happens!!

Time to phone NTL yet AGAIN!

[steve_smith]

Hi,

Exactly the same problem in Poole, Dorset. Nothing to do with my network (because the same fault occurs when I plug a laptop straight in to the NTL modem).

Also, like you, no problem at all with download. However, upload is very poor, leading to connection time outs when sending large emails or uploading files to FTP sites.

Uploaded a 1Mb Access database to some web space I have, and the FTP client (after an age of waiting) reported average speed of less than 2k per second... used to do far better than that on NTL dialup internet.

Someone on here diagnosed my problem to a fault on the local UBR. I did manage to track down a particular person at NTL who was very apologetic and was managing the fault for a while. However, NTL have now decided that it should all be fixed, and can't understand whats going on (a network engineer is supposed to be coming to visit, but not holding breath in the process of waiting). Mind you, I did also ring technical support the other day and was told it's a known problem and a fix is 4 to 5 weeks away... grrrr! So there appears to also be some kind of misinformation or internal communication problem too.

In short, I guess it's the kind of problem a lot of people in a particular area won't notice (because average Joe customer uses their NTL connection to send short emails and surf the web). They will see this problem as packet loss (the bigger the packet you send the more chance it gets dropped), which may bring the occasional "page not found" error in IE. They'll just ignore it and hit refresh.

So if you are the one person in an area (like me) who does send big emails with attachments and happens to need to upload stuff to websites, then you are going to have trouble persuading NTL there really is a problem.

My advice would be to keep phoning tech. support and/or write an email to your area manager (there is a list of them somewhere on this site). At least there are people within NTL who are aware of my complaint.

Steve.

[Web-Junkie]

Phoned em' 4 times now and finally convinced the guy on the phone It's THEIR problem not mine! So he booked an engineer to call me to arrange a visit, but he did say he had a job convincing their techies the problem was NTL's citing they said it was my PC config!! Total b******s!! If after all the hoops I've jumped through and testing and lugging PC's, modems and cables to another persons house to have exactly the same problem is not convincing enough, then it sounds like NTL are covering up a problem they don't want to acknowledge?

If a dialup on the same PC to Freeserve can upload to Yahoo and send large e-mails it's NOT the damn PC config!!!

Anyway, I'm now waiting for a call (which may or may not be made) to get an Engineer out!

[Ashover]

Yeah, I'm waiting for a call as well. Where exactly do you live? I'm on the Farndale Estate.

[Web-Junkie]

I'm in the Sutton-in-Ashfield area!

[Ashover]

Me too, just off Farndale Road.

[Web-Junkie]

About a stones throw away, i'm up near the school :) The friend I went to see when I was testing my PC/modem works there! Still waiting for the phone call though! Missed one phonecall today, 01642 area code? Don't think would have been NTL would it?

[Ashover]

I'm still waiting for a call. I'll have a word with the others that I know that have this problem and see if we can hit NTL with a joint effort, given that they don't want to admit there's a problem. It's easy to fob one person off, not so easy if there's a group.

[Web-Junkie]

Well that's 3 of us within a half mile radius of each other with the same problem, so do NTL still think all our PC's are to blame then :)

This sounds like something that might not be fixed by an Engineer (if he ever turns up) as it may be a Network problem. There's scheduled maintenance for the Mansfield area, selected quotes from the Service Status Page:

On the morning of Tuesday August 24th between midnight and 5am:

UBR upgrade work will result in a longer loss of connection to the service for some customers in Swindon, Scunthorpe, Mansfield, Belfast, Stockton, Glengormley, Cwmbrwla, Coventry, Stapleford, Dunstable, Neath, Shettleston, Warwick, Hitchin, Mapperley, Aldershot, Reading, Shepshed, Northampton, Hatfield, Nottingham and the surrounding areas.

On the morning of Thursday August 26th between midnight and 5am:

Network resegmentation and load balancing work may result in a loss of service for a few hours in Woking, Mansfield, Warwick and the surrounding areas.Wonder if that will make it worse?

[Ashover]

I suspect that there will be quite a few in this area, but as previously stated, a lot of people won't realise as they don't upload files or send attachments.
The part about UBR upgrade sounds particularly interesting given that someone has identified that as a possible problem.

[Tezcatlipoca]

Wonder if that will make it worse?


uBR upgrades, resegmentation & load balancing should hopefully make things better rather than worse. Perhaps your local uBR is oversubscribed at the moment, hence the upgrade & reseg work (& the problems you're having).

[Web-Junkie]

Sorry Matt, a facetious comment :)

I hope it does help alleviate the upload problems we're experiencing in this area as it's getting beyond a joke now. The UBR upgrades will be well underway by now and then it's wait until Thursday for the resegmentation/load balancing to be complete, then we'll see whether NTL will emerge villains or heroes!

Place your bets!!

[Ashover]

Given that they won't admit that there's a problem in the first place, I know where my money is!

[Web-Junkie]

Me too, i've just tried upping a 1mb file to my Yahoo briefcase again and diddly squat!

Unplugged the modem from the power for a minute then powered it back up in the hope it might have done something (like those nice robots on the phone keep telling you to do) but still diddly!! I even reset the modem to factory defaults and let it re-learn all the settings, still nothing uploads!

What else do those robots say? Ah yes, "Would you like to fix your own problems?". Maybe we could download Broadband Medic and let that fix the problem like those nice robots tell us it can do, no more phone calls to NTL, now wouldn't that be a miracle. No more NTL would be better :)

So now we wait for Thursday, given up on the Engineer already :rolleyes:

[mr_h]

I have exactly the same problem but I'm using a STB and based in SE London, infact when I want to FTP files to my webserver I need to drop my BB connection and use my old Virgin dial up account. Sorry but as yet I have not found a solution. Let me know how you get on?

Cheers
H

[Ashover]

Just been talking to someone nearby who has this problem and broadband medic suggested that he use webmail. What a bunch of muppets, they can't even grasp that we can't upload files. How do these people hold down the job?

[THE RIFLE]

Have just spent a most informative ( :o ) 1hr and 35mins talking to a very charming woman on the NTL broadband medic facility, who ran out of excuses then told me that she had not had a reply from me for 5mins so decided to end the session there and then ( after advising me to use there webmail :Yikes: ) i have learnt more on here in the last 5mins and await to see what the outcome entails:dozey:

[Web-Junkie]

Ashover, don't insult muppets, they are useful :)

THE RIFLE, nothing to do with 'The Rifle' pub up Skegby?, you might be waiting a while for the problem to be fixed as so far no Engineer has called me yet to see what my problem is, so much for being contacted within 48 hrs!! I guess they are ducking the issue again!

[Ashover]

Yes, my 48 hours has also passed. Curious customer service, just ignore us and hope that we go away. My upload speed is a little better today, but still can't upload anything.

Definitely the Rifle in Skegby!

[Web-Junkie]

Have a few memories of drinking in the Rifle, especially one Christmas many many years ago when I was absoutley para, walking home over the playing field, down to the spider rec, then fell flat on me face walking down to the railway line, best clothes, in the mud as well :(

Remember going to the Computer Club they used to run across the road at the Forest Tavern too, but that was a long time ago too :)

Hmm.. anyway, I noticed my upload speed was a little better today too! Started after my connection was lost for a minute or so and came back up earlier this afternoon. But like you say, I still had trouble uploading a 1mb file, managed it about 2 out of 5 attempts, which is still not acceptable!

And we are not 'customers' we are just sources of 'income'!! I think their motto is 'Just shut your mouth and keep paying us' :)

[Ashover]

My upstream speed this morning reached 122 and I was able to send a 1mb attachment. Unfortunately I'm now back to normal and still awaiting the promised call back from NTL (promised last Saturday).

[Web-Junkie]

Same experience, had success uploading a few 1mb files yesterday, but not all the time. Even NTL's own webmail suffers the same problem. Today there is little to no upload speed at all, everything I try to upload just fails!

Am now getting 'Server Hangup' everytime I try to access a folder in my Yahoo briefcase, so the test files I managed to upload I can't even delete unless I delete the actual folder, whereupon I get the same error but the folder does get deleted! If I shutdown AdSubtract which I've setup to use the Dublin proxy, I revert to NTL's default Notts proxy servers I then get 'The page cannot be dispayed' error when accessing the same folder. This could be a Yahoo problem, but not sure?

A friend in Mansfield however, doesn't seem to have this problem. He sent me 2 files of about 700kb last night in the same e-mail using Outlook and they uploaded in about 1 min 20 secs, no apparent speed problems he says, so someone at least appears ok. I tried to send the same files back using Outlook too, but they won't go:

A timeout occured while communicating with the server. (Account: 'NTL', SMTP Server: 'smtp.ntlworld.com', Error Number: 0x800ccc19).Retried and got:

The TCP/IP connection was unexpectedly terminated by the server. Server response: '354 Ok Send data ending with <CRLF>. <CRLF>'. (Account: 'NTL', SMTP Server: 'smtp.ntlworld.com', Error Number: 0x800ccc0f).Third try and oh what a surprise!!:

The TCP/IP connection was unexpectedly terminated by the server. Server response: '354 Ok Send data ending with <CRLF>. <CRLF>'. (Account: 'NTL', SMTP Server: 'smtp.ntlworld.com', Error Number: 0x800ccc0f).Dare I try a fourth time? Oh go on then:

A timeout occured while communicating with the server. (Account: 'NTL', SMTP Server: 'smtp.ntlworld.com', Error Number: 0x800ccc19).This is with NO FIREWALL, NO ADBLOCKER and NO ANTIVIRUS RUNNING! It's actually taken NTL about 3 1/2 years to give me an e-mail address and when I finally get it's totaly F****D!!!!

Absolutely sick to death of this fiasco! NTL will be getting a phonecall from a rather p****d off MR ANGRY tomorrow!

[Ashover]

I can't get on to them tomorrow, I'm at a funeral over in Boston. Give them hell from me as well because I don't think they will ever ring me back.

[Web-Junkie]

Sorry to hear about the the funeral :(

Got through to NTL, didn't have to shout at them at all. Gave them the name of guy who booked an engineer last time and the reference number he gave me and was then passed through to 2 ladies and finally through to faults where they rebooked an Engineer for (I'm sure this is the date he gave me) Tuesday 2nd September between 8am-12am :erm: except the 2nd is on a THURSDAY!! So had to ring them back to clarify the date and it was indeed THURSDAY!

So with crossed fingers we wait ANOTHER WEEK for THURSDAY!

[Ashover]

You've got more stamina than me, I'm kicking NTL into touch, phone, tv and broadband.

The last straw for me was a telephone billing issue which, coming on top of waiting over a week for a call back from tech services (which hasn't materialised) and still having these crap upstream speeds, has finally finished me off.
NTL can obviously afford to lose the £100 a month that I pay them so things must be good.

[DeadKenny]

On the morning of Thursday August 26th between midnight and 5am:

Network resegmentation and load balancing work may result in a loss of service for a few hours in Woking, Mansfield, Warwick and the surrounding areas.


Bingo! That's most likely why my connection's gone and screwed!

Take a look at this thread...

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=16757

Guess what? On the morning of the 26th I had a modem reboot, new IP address and I noticed the UBR IP address had totally changed (it's now a 10.x.x.x address), and ever since I'm getting *major* packet loss! (all on the upstream, thus causing stalled/failed web requests and bad upstream traffic when uploading, this includes making my web server run at a crawl, though 256kbps was never speedy anyway) :(

I've been told this may be down to my 58 upstream power level (at that level it would be readjusting power and that causes the packet loss), but I've been living with a power level of between 56 to 58 for a year now with no problem. The problem only started when NTL "fixed" things :(.

So now it could be down to me to chase up NTL, get engineers out, wait in for them, etc, to sort it :(.



P.S. Can you guys do a quick test?

Do a traceroute to www.ntlworld.com and find the UBR IP address on the list. It will be the first or second hop (depending whether you've got a router or not), and probably a 10.x.x.x address. Then do a ping to that address to check on packet loss ('ping -t' for a continuous ping on Windows and CTRL+C to stop it, and it will tell you how much packet loss if any).

I'm interested to see if anyone getting upload problems is getting packet loss too (as it would probably explain it, and is what I'm getting).

Also are you getting problems with web pages where you sometimes have to refresh to get the page to load?

In addition to that if you can check your upstream power level too that would be great (browse to http://192.168.100.1 on most modems).

[Web-Junkie]

@Ashover: I don't give in that easy, if I did then NTL win! They can then sit back and afford to lose customers without doing a damn thing about the problems. I intend to make sure I'm not going to get messed about with lame excuses and ensure someone knows it!!

@DeadKenny:

Traceroute through deafult proxy:


Tracing route to www.ntlworld.com (http://www.ntlworld.com/) [62.253.162.30]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 253 ms 246 ms 240 ms 10.175.71.254 <-- I assume this is the UBR?
2 129 ms 114 ms 115 ms nott-t2cam1-b-v108.inet.ntl.com [80.4.46.145]
3 230 ms 165 ms 153 ms nott-t2core-b-ge-wan74.inet.ntl.com [80.1.79.201]
4 247 ms 210 ms 163 ms nth-bb-b-so-200-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.37]
5 165 ms 194 ms 191 ms nth-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.117]
6 261 ms 196 ms 142 ms gfd-bb-b-so-400-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.98]
7 255 ms 244 ms 208 ms win-bb-a-so-500-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.172.129]
8 196 ms 224 ms 258 ms win-dc-a-v902.inet.ntl.com [62.253.187.222]
9 260 ms 101 ms 13 ms www.ntlworld.com (http://www.ntlworld.com/) [62.253.162.30]
Trace complete.

Using 'ping -t 10.175.71.254' seems OK though:
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=218ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=110ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=182ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=248ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=173ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=184ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=238ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=193ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=228ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=217ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=110ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=210ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=233ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=203ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=225ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=224ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=247ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=44ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=128ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=209ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=166ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=191ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.175.71.254: bytes=32 time=226ms TTL=255
Ping statistics for 10.175.71.254:
Packets: Sent = 23, Received = 23, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 44ms, Maximum = 248ms, Average = 191ms

Upstream from Surfboard 4100:
Channel ID: 4
Frequency: 36821684 Hz Ranged
Ranging Service ID: 82
Symbol Rate: 2.560 Msym/s
Power Level: 57 dBmV


and a 'netstat -s -p tcp'
TCP Statistics for IPv4
Active Opens = 2309
Passive Opens = 1085
Failed Connection Attempts = 0
Reset Connections = 194
Current Connections = 10
Segments Received = 369460
Segments Sent = 255882
Segments Retransmitted = 235

Not sure if this info helps but I do know I have to use the refresh button on web pages more than I used to. Trying to preview this message has also resulted in several time outs causing 'The page cannot be displayed' error! I'm having to copy the entire message before previewing in case the page craps out!!

If this were Southpark it would be "NTL!! OMG they've killed broadband!!" :)

[DeadKenny]

Hmm, sounds like it's similar to my problem, though you're not getting packet loss. In your case it looks like a slow connection to the UBR with high ping times (and in my case the connection just fails). Your upstream is close to the limit like mine, though netstat isn't reporting failed connection attempts, but some retransmits.

[Web-Junkie]

I pinged all 9 hops on the trace route and no packet loss.

You obviously have an additional problem on top of the existing problem to compound it.

I still can't upload to Yahoo briefcase, send attachments via my NTL e-mail and ftp uploads still time out! So it's not purely a packet loss issue, you're just one of the 'lucky' ones to be gifted with 'extra' problems at no additional cost courtesy of NTL!

[DeadKenny]

I'm thinking maybe if the signal is 'over' the limit then you get the packet loss. Maybe when it's near you don't but perhaps could see some performance problems? i.e. not enough to drop packets but certainly to cause serious delays which I guess could make things time-out.

Or it's two separate issues.

I don't know, I find these upstream hassles so frustrating. I went through a year of hell with them before but that was with the connection dropping and the modem rebooting endlessly.

:(

I've said it before that it would be much better if NTL did the same as BT and refuse to install if the line quality is too poor. I think the problem with NTL is they just hook you up and assume because it's cable it will work first time. When I got mine installed no one bothered to check the signal at all. It was, drill the hole, plug the cable in, clear off to next job. The result in loads of call outs wasting my time (and money) and theirs.

I even get the impression that the network just can't handle broadband and digital TV. It wasn't designed for that when it was put in and dodgy signal levels weren't an issue with analogue cable TV I guess (and they usually were dodgy in my experience).

[Web-Junkie]

Well, the engineer should come tomorrow so I can show him first hand the problem and then see what he says. Then again, I could be on the phone asking why he didn't turn up.

Upstream signal level is still 57 dBmV, downstream is 2 dBmV today.

[DeadKenny]

Then again, I could be on the phone asking why he didn't turn up.

I've been there before :(

Worse was one where they turned on the wrong day and had the balls to accuse me of not being in and promptly cancelled the call out!! (meaning I had to re-arrange and them saying it would be another week before they could come out:mad: ).

[steve_smith]

I pinged all 9 hops on the trace route and no packet loss.<snip>

I still can't upload to Yahoo briefcase, send attachments via my NTL e-mail and ftp uploads still time out! So it's not purely a packet loss issue, you're just one of the 'lucky' ones to be gifted with 'extra' problems at no additional cost courtesy of NTL!If there is no apparent packet loss (or very little packet loss) when doing ping tests, you might find you have a similar problem to me in that small packets (eg. those of default ping size) get through with much less packet loss than larger packets.

Try opening up a command prompt window (if you're using Windows) and do this:

ping -L 2000 -N 20 www.bbc.co.uk (http://www.bbc.co.uk/)

(ie. ping www.bbc.co.uk (http://www.bbc.co.uk/) with 2000 bytes 20 times)

If I do that test, I get 50% packet loss.

If I ping the same site with the default size of 32 bytes, I get little or no loss.

Steve.

[Web-Junkie]

OK Steve:

This is with no Adblocker or Firewall running, but going through the default Notts proxy server (which to me is very slow and causes slow browsing and time outs).


Pinging www.bbc.net.uk (http://www.bbc.net.uk/) [212.58.224.126] with 2000 bytes of data:
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Reply from 212.58.224.126: bytes=2000 time=281ms TTL=247
Request timed out.
Reply from 212.58.224.126: bytes=2000 time=214ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.126: bytes=2000 time=194ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.126: bytes=2000 time=130ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.126: bytes=2000 time=153ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.126: bytes=2000 time=166ms TTL=247
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Reply from 212.58.224.126: bytes=2000 time=137ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.126: bytes=2000 time=48ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.126: bytes=2000 time=107ms TTL=247
Request timed out.
Reply from 212.58.224.126: bytes=2000 time=175ms TTL=247
Ping statistics for 212.58.224.126:
Packets: Sent = 20, Received = 10, Lost = 10 (50% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 48ms, Maximum = 281ms, Average = 160ms

May seem a silly question but I thought 1500 was the biggest packet size that ethernet uses? That's what WinXP's MTU is set to, so I did the same test with a packet size of 1500:

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk (http://www.bbc.net.uk/) [212.58.224.82] with 1500 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.224.82: bytes=1500 time=176ms TTL=247
Request timed out.
Reply from 212.58.224.82: bytes=1500 time=107ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.82: bytes=1500 time=163ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.82: bytes=1500 time=154ms TTL=247
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Reply from 212.58.224.82: bytes=1500 time=59ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.82: bytes=1500 time=179ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.82: bytes=1500 time=25ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.82: bytes=1500 time=24ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.82: bytes=1500 time=106ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.82: bytes=1500 time=111ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.82: bytes=1500 time=56ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.82: bytes=1500 time=39ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.82: bytes=1500 time=29ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.82: bytes=1500 time=99ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.82: bytes=1500 time=130ms TTL=247
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Ping statistics for 212.58.224.82:
Packets: Sent = 20, Received = 15, Lost = 5 (25% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 24ms, Maximum = 179ms, Average = 97ms


Looks like pinging with lower values until one works 100% and use that as the MTU value?

[steve_smith]

This is with no Adblocker or Firewall running, but going through the default Notts proxy server (which to me is very slow and causes slow browsing and time outs).
I think (and will be corrected if I'm wrong!) that only web traffic goes through the proxy server. So your ping tests are making a direct connection between your computer and the server at the other end (without any proxying going on).

Looks like pinging with lower values until one works 100% and use that as the MTU value?
I thought that and did try lowering my MTU value to 300 bytes. Didn't seem to help very much :-(

My brother has an NTL broadband connection in his flat (he lives in London, same modem and connection speed as mine). I took my laptop and doing that same test with 2000 bytes to www.bbc.co.uk (http://www.bbc.co.uk) resulted in zero packet loss. My laptop is running XP Professional. So the fact is that in your area and my area, there is something wrong with the network that is causing this behaviour. It seems to me that the more data you send at once, the more chance there is that it won't get delivered.

Don't know whether any network experts out there can come up with a diagnosis or any ideas based on this information, or just tell me that I'm barking up the wrong tree altogether.

Steve.

[Web-Junkie]

We shouldn't have to be altering MTU values anyway! Would Mr and Mrs Smith who bought broadband for their daughter be expected to know how to set MTU values, reconfigure network settings, how to diagnose packet loss or slow ping times to their UBR just to convince NTL their own network is at fault?

It does seem certain areas are affected and others not. I have a friend in Mansfield, the next town to me, who runs WinXP and he can send 2 attachments of 700kb each to me using NTL's mail but I can't Forward the same mail back to him with the same attachments, the mail server just chokes! Maybe they rotate the problems around different areas to hide the problem?

[Ashover]

OK, I'll wait and see what the engineer (if he appears) says tomorrow.

I have a friend who lives near Sutton junction and she has absoloutely no problems sending me email attachments, so the problem seems to be very localised.

[Web-Junkie]

Will keep you posted, but you now not to hold your breath where NTL are concerned :)

[DeadKenny]

I just tried the same test...


Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.224.125] with 2000 bytes of data:

Request timed out.
Reply from 212.58.224.125: bytes=2000 time=30ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.125: bytes=2000 time=28ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.125: bytes=2000 time=26ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.125: bytes=2000 time=26ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.125: bytes=2000 time=29ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.125: bytes=2000 time=28ms TTL=247
Request timed out.
Reply from 212.58.224.125: bytes=2000 time=31ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.125: bytes=2000 time=24ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.125: bytes=2000 time=29ms TTL=247
Request timed out.
Reply from 212.58.224.125: bytes=2000 time=25ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.125: bytes=2000 time=28ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.125: bytes=2000 time=25ms TTL=247
Request timed out.
Reply from 212.58.224.125: bytes=2000 time=29ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.125: bytes=2000 time=25ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.125: bytes=2000 time=26ms TTL=247
Reply from 212.58.224.125: bytes=2000 time=26ms TTL=247

Ping statistics for 212.58.224.125:
Packets: Sent = 20, Received = 16, Lost = 4 (20% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 24ms, Maximum = 31ms, Average = 27ms


Better times, but still loads of packet loss :(


and to the UBR...

Pinging 10.136.63.254 with 2000 bytes of data:

Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Reply from 10.136.63.254: bytes=2000 time=23ms TTL=254
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Reply from 10.136.63.254: bytes=2000 time=27ms TTL=254
Request timed out.
Reply from 10.136.63.254: bytes=2000 time=26ms TTL=254
Request timed out.
Reply from 10.136.63.254: bytes=2000 time=26ms TTL=254
Request timed out.
Reply from 10.136.63.254: bytes=2000 time=26ms TTL=254
Reply from 10.136.63.254: bytes=2000 time=30ms TTL=254
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 10.136.63.254:
Packets: Sent = 20, Received = 6, Lost = 14 (70% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 23ms, Maximum = 30ms, Average = 26ms

:eek:


or at default packet size...
Pinging 10.136.63.254 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 10.136.63.254: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=254
Request timed out.
Reply from 10.136.63.254: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=254
Reply from 10.136.63.254: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=254
Reply from 10.136.63.254: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=254
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Reply from 10.136.63.254: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=254
Request timed out.
Reply from 10.136.63.254: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=254
Reply from 10.136.63.254: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=254
Request timed out.
Reply from 10.136.63.254: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=254
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Reply from 10.136.63.254: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=254
Reply from 10.136.63.254: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=254
Reply from 10.136.63.254: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=254
Reply from 10.136.63.254: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 10.136.63.254: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=254

Ping statistics for 10.136.63.254:
Packets: Sent = 20, Received = 13, Lost = 7 (35% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 6ms, Maximum = 20ms, Average = 8ms

:(

[THE RIFLE]

checked speeds this morning , downstream = 699kbps \ 87.4kb/sec
upstream = 116kbps \ 14.5kb/sec
fairly happy with that , but have this sudden urge to start "pinging" NTL vans with my air rifle ;)
still no change on the attachment side :mad:

[Web-Junkie]

Well the Engineer *DID* turn up!! /me faints!!!

And guess what, he KNOWS there is a problem and therefore couldn't do anything for me as it's NTL'S Network at fault, he suspects the UBR that feeds the area where I live is the problem. He said someone up near Sutton firestation has the same problem and somewhere on the estate near the same place! I was the 5th person on his list reporting the same problem.

Got his name and TEC number so now we wait and see what happens as he didn't give me any info other than 'Leave it with me'!!

So at last an NTL guy has acknowledged a problem that is NOT a customer problem :)

Now how long will it take for them to fix it? Any guesses this side of Christmas??

[DeadKenny]

Hmm, now my connection is going up and down. I don't think my router is dead this time as once it dies it stays dead (I'm at work so can't tell for sure, at least no until it comes back online again). This means it's could be the modem is rebooting :(

IP address doesn't appear to have changed today.


I still maintain the point that all of this started exactly when NTL started messing about on the 26th.


edit: Yep, modem rebooting...


040902121338 4-Error X501.35 Unit Update Failed.
040902121338 7-Information F502.1 Bridge Forwarding Enabled.
040902121337 4-Error X501.28 Unit Update - Not updating. This image is not for this platform.
040902121337 7-Information F502.2 Bridge Forwarding Disabled.
040902121337 7-Information X500.0 Attempting Unit Update
040902121331 7-Information F502.1 Bridge Forwarding Enabled.
040902121331 7-Information F502.3 Bridge Learning Enabled.
040902121331 7-Information B518.0 Baseline Privacy is skipped
040902121330 7-Information I500.0 Registration Completed
040902121330 7-Information I0.0 REG-RSP Registration Response
040902121330 7-Information I0.0 REG-REQ Registration Request
040902121330 7-Information D509.0 Retrieved TFTP Config mota4100-gold.cm SUCCESS
040902121330 7-Information D507.0 Retrieved Time....... SUCCESS
************ 7-Information D511.0 Retrieved DHCP .......... SUCCESS
************ 5-Warning D520.2 DHCP Attempt# 1 BkOff: 4s Tot DSC:1 OFF:1 REQ:1 ACK:1
************ 7-Information D0.0 DHCP CM Net Configuration download and Time of Day
************ 7-Information T500.0 Acquired Upstream .......... SUCCESS
************ 8-Debug T503.1 Acquire US with status OK, powerLevel 58, tempSid 1033
************ 8-Debug T505.0 Acquired Upstream with status OK
************ 7-Information T501.0 Acquired Downstream (402750000 Hz)........ SUCCESS
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status OK, DS Freq 402750000, US Id 2
************ 7-Information H501.17 HFC: UCD Minislot size change.
************ 7-Information I510.0 *** BOOTING *** SB4100-4.0.6-SCM-NOSHELL
040902121227 7-Information H501.2 HFC: Shutting Downstream Down
040902121227 2-Alert T507.0 Received Async Error Range Failed
040902120808 4-Error X501.35 Unit Update Failed.
040902120808 7-Information F502.1 Bridge Forwarding Enabled.
040902120807 4-Error X501.28 Unit Update - Not updating. This image is not for this platform.
040902120807 7-Information F502.2 Bridge Forwarding Disabled.
040902120807 7-Information X500.0 Attempting Unit Update
040902120801 7-Information F502.1 Bridge Forwarding Enabled.
040902120801 7-Information F502.3 Bridge Learning Enabled.
040902120801 7-Information B518.0 Baseline Privacy is skipped
040902120800 7-Information I500.0 Registration Completed
040902120800 7-Information I0.0 REG-RSP Registration Response
040902120800 7-Information I0.0 REG-REQ Registration Request
040902120800 7-Information D509.0 Retrieved TFTP Config mota4100-gold.cm SUCCESS
040902120758 7-Information D507.0 Retrieved Time....... SUCCESS
************ 7-Information D511.0 Retrieved DHCP .......... SUCCESS
************ 5-Warning D520.2 DHCP Attempt# 1 BkOff: 4s Tot DSC:1 OFF:1 REQ:1 ACK:1
************ 7-Information D0.0 DHCP CM Net Configuration download and Time of Day
************ 7-Information T500.0 Acquired Upstream .......... SUCCESS
************ 8-Debug T503.1 Acquire US with status OK, powerLevel 58, tempSid 1033
************ 8-Debug T505.0 Acquired Upstream with status OK
************ 7-Information T501.0 Acquired Downstream (402750000 Hz)........ SUCCESS
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status OK, DS Freq 402750000, US Id 5
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 594750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 586750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 578750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 570750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 562750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 554750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 546750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 538750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 530750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 522750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 514750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 506750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 498750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 490750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 482750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 474750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 466750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 458750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 450750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 442750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 434750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 426750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 418750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 410750000, US Id 0
************ 7-Information H501.2 HFC: Shutting Downstream Down
************ 8-Debug T503.1 Acquire US with status RR ABORT, powerLevel 0, tempSid 0
************ 7-Information T501.0 Acquired Downstream (402750000 Hz)........ SUCCESS
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status OK, DS Freq 402750000, US Id 5
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 394750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 386750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 378750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 370750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 362750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 354750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 346750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 338750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 330750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 322750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 314750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 306750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 298750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 290750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 282750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 274750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 266750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 258750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 250750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 242750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 234750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 226750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 218750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 210750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 202750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 194750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 186750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 178750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 170750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 162750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 154750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 146750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 138750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 130750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 122750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 114750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 106750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 98750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 90750000, US Id 0
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status NO FEC lock, DS Freq 403000000, US Id 0
************ 7-Information H501.2 HFC: Shutting Downstream Down
************ 8-Debug T503.1 Acquire US with status RR ABORT, powerLevel 0, tempSid 0
************ 7-Information T501.0 Acquired Downstream (402750000 Hz)........ SUCCESS
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status OK, DS Freq 402750000, US Id 5
************ 7-Information H501.17 HFC: UCD Minislot size change.
************ 7-Information I510.0 *** BOOTING *** SB4100-4.0.6-SCM-NOSHELL
040902115840 7-Information H501.2 HFC: Shutting Downstream Down
040902115840 2-Alert T507.0 Received Async Error Range Failed
040902115743 4-Error X501.35 Unit Update Failed.
040902115743 7-Information F502.1 Bridge Forwarding Enabled.
040902115742 4-Error X501.28 Unit Update - Not updating. This image is not for this platform.
040902115742 7-Information F502.2 Bridge Forwarding Disabled.
040902115742 7-Information X500.0 Attempting Unit Update
040902115736 7-Information F502.1 Bridge Forwarding Enabled.
040902115736 7-Information F502.3 Bridge Learning Enabled.
040902115736 7-Information B518.0 Baseline Privacy is skipped
040902115735 7-Information I500.0 Registration Completed
040902115735 7-Information I0.0 REG-RSP Registration Response
040902115735 7-Information I0.0 REG-REQ Registration Request
040902115735 7-Information D509.0 Retrieved TFTP Config mota4100-gold.cm SUCCESS
040902115735 7-Information D507.0 Retrieved Time....... SUCCESS
************ 7-Information D511.0 Retrieved DHCP .......... SUCCESS
************ 5-Warning D520.2 DHCP Attempt# 1 BkOff: 4s Tot DSC:1 OFF:1 REQ:1 ACK:1
************ 7-Information D0.0 DHCP CM Net Configuration download and Time of Day
************ 7-Information T500.0 Acquired Upstream .......... SUCCESS
************ 8-Debug T503.1 Acquire US with status OK, powerLevel 58, tempSid 1033
************ 8-Debug T505.0 Acquired Upstream with status OK
************ 7-Information T501.0 Acquired Downstream (402750000 Hz)........ SUCCESS
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status OK, DS Freq 402750000, US Id 5
************ 7-Information H501.17 HFC: UCD Minislot size change.
************ 7-Information I510.0 *** BOOTING *** SB4100-4.0.6-SCM-NOSHELL
040902115706 7-Information H501.2 HFC: Shutting Downstream Down
040902115706 2-Alert T507.0 Received Async Error Range Failed
040902115627 4-Error X501.35 Unit Update Failed.
040902115627 7-Information F502.1 Bridge Forwarding Enabled.
040902115626 4-Error X501.28 Unit Update - Not updating. This image is not for this platform.
040902115626 7-Information F502.2 Bridge Forwarding Disabled.
040902115626 7-Information X500.0 Attempting Unit Update
040902115620 7-Information F502.1 Bridge Forwarding Enabled.
040902115620 7-Information F502.3 Bridge Learning Enabled.
040902115620 7-Information B518.0 Baseline Privacy is skipped
040902115619 7-Information I500.0 Registration Completed
040902115619 7-Information I0.0 REG-RSP Registration Response
040902115619 7-Information I0.0 REG-REQ Registration Request
040902115619 7-Information D509.0 Retrieved TFTP Config mota4100-gold.cm SUCCESS
040902115619 7-Information D507.0 Retrieved Time....... SUCCESS
************ 7-Information D511.0 Retrieved DHCP .......... SUCCESS
************ 5-Warning D520.2 DHCP Attempt# 1 BkOff: 4s Tot DSC:1 OFF:1 REQ:1 ACK:1
************ 7-Information D0.0 DHCP CM Net Configuration download and Time of Day
************ 7-Information T500.0 Acquired Upstream .......... SUCCESS
************ 8-Debug T503.1 Acquire US with status OK, powerLevel 58, tempSid 1033
************ 8-Debug T505.0 Acquired Upstream with status OK
************ 7-Information T501.0 Acquired Downstream (402750000 Hz)........ SUCCESS
************ 8-Debug T509.0 Acquired DS with status OK, DS Freq 402750000, US Id 5
************ 7-Information H501.17 HFC: UCD Minislot size change.
************ 7-Information I510.0 *** BOOTING *** SB4100-4.0.6-SCM-NOSHELL
040902115550 7-Information H501.2 HFC: Shutting Downstream Down
040902115550 2-Alert T507.0 Received Async Error Range Failed
040902115454 4-Error X501.35 Unit Update Failed.

[Web-Junkie]

It started before the 26th as I had upload problems before that. For me it all points to an outage we had a few weeks ago during a thunderstorm, after that is when the problems started, at least for me and others in my area!

I also had an interesting conversation today with a lady from www.svp.co.uk (http://www.svp.co.uk)!!

I was trying to order some stuff today online at their site, when i'd entered all my CC details and clicked the 'Authorise' button to finalise the transaction, I got 'The page cannot be displayed' error. So I rung them up to ask if the transaction had gone through and the first thing she asked me was 'Are you on NTL?', I said I was and she told me she'd had no end of complaints from other NTL customers who are unable to access or use their site!! Interesting no? So I told her to ring up NTL a tell them to get it sorted on our behalf :) My transaction hadn't gone through anyway!

Had to reinput all the details again but thankfully the second transaction was successful! So even online stores are aware of problems with NTL!

[DeadKenny]

Well, things are getting worse. My cable modem has now been endlessly rebooting meaning I've effectively got a dead broadband connection. I'm now right back to where I was over a year ago when I had exactly the same hassle. It was "fixed" supposedly (thanks eventually to some on nthellworld.com), but now I'm back to square one :mad:

I'm on dial-up currently, and it's very slow, plus ntlworld.com is extremely slow (even for dial-up).

NTL: Whatever you did in Woking on the 26th, can you please UNDO IT! :mad:

I've had a perfect working system for over a year until that change :(.

Well, I'd better ask my boss for a day off work then to sort it out. Just hope I can do that next week sometime, but it might be later.

[DeadKenny]

2nd day 'dead'. It recovered late evening yesterday but died mid-morning today and has not come back up.

[Web-Junkie]

Have you *COUGH* phoned NTL?

[DeadKenny]

Have you *COUGH* phoned NTL?


Yes. It's a total joke :mad:...

Blah, blah, blah, waste a load of my money (why no free support no. for broadband?) with numerous idiot advice and options, blah, blah...

"please note our technical support are only able to offer limited support due to technical dificulties"

:LOL: (priceless)

"... they will be unable to access your account details or check on local problems in your area, blah, blah... and because of the technical problems our lines are extremely busy, blah, blah"

:rolleyes:


Okay, wait for a dozen more options, get to the bit where I can press '2' to report my broadband as not being working...

Guess what?

Go on...





Okay...


CUT OFF!!! :mad:


Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! :mad:

This is EXACTLY how it used to be a year or two back when it was a 40 minute wait on the phone every time, only to be cut off. People have been saying it's improved, but has it hell :mad:

Obviously no point in it anyway as they won't have access to the account or diagnostics stuff I guess.

There's not much they can do anyway until next week when I get a chance to ask for time off (which is likely to be at the mid to end of next week at the earliest as I'm quite busy at work). This weekend is out of the question but they don't do weekends anyway.

Oh well, I'll just have to enjoy my 36kbps analogue modem for now (yep, even analogue isn't giving me the full 56kbps :()), at extra expense to me of course. It means my webserver and mailserver is now down and I have to work around that (redirecting mail to NTL's spam-tastic, ever offline mail server :rolleyes: ).

I still maintain that if this was all installed properly in the first place I wouldn't have this trouble. Even when it was "fixed" before all they did was get the upstream to the mid 50s and it drifted back to the limit again, but whatever they did on the 26th has broken it totally.


Oh well, I'm try using the email form on their web site... :LOL: (I never get replies from that, but what the hell :rolleyes: ).


It's been a while, but the stuffed modem GIF is now back as my avatar.

[Ashover]

At least Web Junkie seems to be getting somewhere(?). I think that Rifle and myself should get the engineer out given that it seems the only way to get NTL to acknowledge that we have a problem.

[Ignition]

At least Web Junkie seems to be getting somewhere(?). I think that Rifle and myself should get the engineer out given that it seems the only way to get NTL to acknowledge that we have a problem.

Which is of course madly inefficient, sending engineer(s) to a series of faults that all stem from a single network issue, as well as irritating customers due to the slow resolution of their faults.

I think things are in progress to try and improve fault diagnosis, I *hope* they do!

[Ashover]

I couldn't agree more, but I don't know how else to approach it. The last time that I spoke to TS, I was promised a call back (2 weeks ago) and it hasn't materialised, so the conclusion that I drew was that they would say anything just to get rid of me.

If anyone from TS would like to follow this up and find out why I've been fobbed off, I would be grateful - otherwise Rifle and myself will have to call out an engineer just to acknowledge that we have a genuine problem.

[DeadKenny]

Hmm, there seems to be a pattern to this.

Mid-morning to mid-day (i.e. between 11am and 1pm)... modem reboots and fails to recover for more than a couple of minutes at a time before rebooting again.


Evening (around 7pm ish)... modem locks on and stays on until the next morning.

[DeadKenny]

Well the email form on ntlworld was hopeless. All they said was to contact them by phone on the regular tech support number (which is just as hopeless) :rolleyes:


I don't suppose (anyone cares but...) does anyone know when NTL's "technical problems" on the tech support line will be resolved? I got the impression all of this was just supposed to last the bank holiday weekend, but it's been over a week now.

Are NTL going to admit there's been an almightly cock-up somewhere?

Also, for this level of work going on we should have been contacted in advance by email for each of the affected areas, seeing as it was planned work.

[Web-Junkie]

Well, the problem is still there for me but as JustAnotherN00b says, it's annoying when an engineer turns to tell you exactly what you've been telling NTL for the past 2 weeks, their Network is the fault! And he can't do anything for you except report the problem back to NTL whereupon we are right back where we started, same poor service and no idea what's being done to resolve it!

I still have no idea what is going to be done (if anything) to resolve the issue and as DeadKenny has found out NTL are unable, or more likely, unwilling to give you any information whatsoever!

And if monkeybreath is reading this, can you find out if "Mick Services TEC #3411" has reported a problem in the Sutton in Ashfield area regarding upload problems/packet loss please?

And Ashover, keep looking for an alternate ISP, this may take a while!!

[DeadKenny]

Well, the problem is still there for me but as JustAnotherN00b says, it's annoying when an engineer turns to tell you exactly what you've been telling NTL for the past 2 weeks, their Network is the fault! And he can't do anything for you except report the problem back to NTL whereupon we are right back where we started, same poor service and no idea what's being done to resolve it!

Yep, and that's basically what happened a year or two back when I last had this problem. Going round in circles endlessly explaining from scratch what the problem is every time I call them (they had no history of previous calls) and each time they just shrug and send a basic engineer who doesn't really know the answer and does the same diagnostics every time. Every time I say it's not my modem, it's your network (or at least the box down the road), stop coming round to check my modem/PC/etc, and each time they don't listen.

On and off my modem would be up and down, with periods of hours, days or weeks of down time depending on god knows what (maybe even the weather!), and I never got anywhere with the official NTL tech support. A year later (with some months of no problems and some really bad) and certain people at nthellworld had some proper experts out quickly and they did fix it... for about a year until NTL did some "work" in my area on the 26th August and now it's bust again, and I can't get through to the right people to complain.


:banghead:

[Web-Junkie]

In situations like this I cheer myself up by reading a Letter of Complaint someone posted in the Newsgroups:

Letter of Complaint
Dear Cretins:
I have been an NTL customer since 9th July 2001, when I signed up for your four-in-one deal for cable TV, cable modem, telephone, and alarm monitoring.

During this three-month period I have encountered inadequacy of service which I had not previously considered possible, as well as ignorance and stupidity of monolithic proportions. Please allow me to provide specific details, so that you can either pursue your professional prerogative and seek to rectify these difficulties -- or more likely (I suspect) so that you can have some entertaining reading material as you while away the working day smoking B&H and drinking vendor-coffee on the bog in your office.

My initial installation was cancelled without warning, resulting in my spending an entire Saturday sitting on my fat arse waiting for your technician to arrive. When he did not arrive, I spent a further 57 minutes listening to your infuriating hold music, and the even more annoying Scottish robot woman telling me to look at your helpful website. HOW? I alleviated the boredom by playing with my testicles for a few minutes -- an activity at which you are no doubt both familiar and highly adept. The rescheduled installation then took place some two weeks later, although the technician did forget to bring a number of vital tools -- such as drill-bit, and his cerebrum.

Two weeks later, my cable modem had still not arrived. After 15 telephone calls over four weeks my modem arrived, six weeks after I had requested it -- and begun to pay for it. I estimate your internet server's downtime is roughly 35% -- the hours between about 6 pm and midnight, Monday through Friday, and most of the weekend. I am still waiting for my telephone connection.

I have made nine calls on my mobile to your no-help line, and have been unhelpfully transferred to a variety of disinterested individuals who are, it seems, also highly skilled b0ll0ck jugglers. I have been informed that a telephone line is available (and someone will call me back); that I will be transferred to someone who knows whether or not a telephone line is available (and then been cut off); that I will be transferred to someone (and then been redirected to an answering machine informing me that your office is closed); that I will be transferred to someone and then been redirected to the irritating Scottish robot woman. And several other variations on this theme.

Doubtless you are no longer reading this letter, as you have at least a thousand other dissatisfied customers to ignore, and also another one of those crucially important testicle moments to attend to. Frankly I don't care. It's far more satisfying as a customer to voice my frustrations in print than to shout them at your unending hold music.
Forgive me, therefore, if I continue.

I thought British Telecom was sh-it; that they had attained the holy pi-ss-pot of god-awful customer relations; and that no one, anywhere, ever, could be more disinterested, less helpful or more obstructive to delivering service to their customers. That's why I chose NTL, and because, well, there isn't anyone else, is there?

How surprised I therefore was, when I discovered to my considerable dissatisfaction and disappointment what a useless shower of bast-ards you truly are. You are sputum-filled pieces of distended rectum incompetents of the highest order. BT -- wan-kers though they are -- shine like brilliant beacons of success in the filthy mire of your seemingly limitless inadequacy.

Suffice to say that I have now given up on my futile and foolhardy quest to receive any kind of service from you. I suggest that you cease any potential future attempts to extort payment from me for the services which you have so pointedly and catastrophically failed to deliver. Any such activity will be greeted initially with hilarity and disbelief and will quickly be replaced by derision, and even perhaps bemused rage.

I enclose two small deposits, selected with great care from my cat's litter tray, as an expression of my utter and complete contempt for both you and your pointless company. I sincerely hope that they have not become desiccated during transit -- they were satisfyingly moist at the time of posting, and I would feel considerable disappointment if you did not experience both their rich aroma and delicate texture. Consider them the very embodiment of my feelings towards NTL, and its worthless employees.

Have a nice day. May it be the last in your miserable short lives,you irritatingly incompetent and infuriatingly unhelpful bunch of twits.Although funny, it's sadly near to the truth I suspect!

Note to the mods:
Sorry for altering a few words to get around the profanity filter, but it doesn't look or come across as well with a load of ***** all over it!!

I can hear the mods now: "Banned for a week young man" :erm:

[Web-Junkie]

Whoo! I rang NTL today to try to find out what the hell they are doing about this upload problem, after being passed around I managed to get through to fellow named 'Alan' at the local faults office.

As a result of 'Mick' the engineer who visited me last week and told me NTL have a network problem, 'Alan' informed me that 'Mick' has since been gathering information about the fault and has passed it onto his manager to look at. At this point the don't know what the problem is but affects 'a few thousand' people he said.

So there is definitely a problem but it won't be fixed overnight! Was given the 0800 052 2000 number to call so I could find out the current status of the problem. So I'll be ringing that number every week to see what's going on.

Nothing more to do now but grin and bear it!

[Ashover]

Tomorrow I will be calling NTL to have an engineer to attend and I'll ask The Rifle to do the same. The more people creating a fuss and dragging engineers out, the better chance of getting NTL to do something about it.

It's now 3 weeks since TS promised to ring me back and I'm sure that they will and didn't just promise that to get rid of me.

[Neil]

In situations like this I cheer myself up by reading a Letter of Complaint someone posted in the Newsgroups:

Although funny, it's sadly near to the truth I suspect!

Note to the mods:
Sorry for altering a few words to get around the profanity filter, but it doesn't look or come across as well with a load of ***** all over it!!

I can hear the mods now: "Banned for a week young man" :erm:

LOL @ WJ-It was actually me that first posted that letter way back when on NTHW.com. :D

:notopic: Ah-the memories! I believe that the letter was later modified & sent to Sky/BT etc etc!

Ok-back on topic. :)

[Web-Junkie]

@Neil: Thanks for giving me a bally good laugh then. I love humour like that ;) Did you post the one about 'If NTL ran a pub' by any chance?

@Ashover: Yep, definitely report the problem as it may make them more aware of it, but it 'appears' they are aware of it and may not need to send an engineer, unless they haven't twigged people in the same area are reporting the same fault yet and go through the whole 'we'll ring you back' scenario :rolleyes:

[DeadKenny]

Yep, definitely report the problem as it may make them more aware of it

That's what I thought, but just trying to get in contact with them is near impossible.

If they do realise there's a wider problem, shouldn't it be listed on the Service Status Page? :erm:

I've given up anyway. I said last time when I had all these hassles that if it happens again I'll be off to BT, and so it seems my life with NTL is going to come to an end this time. The application has gone in for a BT line. Oh well (still, don't count your chickens yet, chances are my line will fail ADSL tests and I'll be back :()

[slider]

Hiya all ntl users im new in this forum, rencetly ive been having problems with my broadband 1.5 meg upload speed since the 1st august 2004 its always seems to bounce up and down all the time i present a show on a radio station so thats why i need my upload stream to be running at a steady stream but its not even now 13 sept 2004 still having the same problems with my upload stream ive ran a few test's and it shows my kpbs is one minute at 228kbps then it drops to 4kbps and so on but its not just now and again its all the time and ive rang tech support over and over again and nothing seem to be getting done can any one help as i can't broadcast my radio show with my upload stream being like this.

slider.

[Ashover]

The NTL engineer is coming out to me on Thursday and he will tell me what I already know - there's a network fault somewhere!

At least it will be an acknowledgement that there is a problem, something that nobody seems willing to officially admit to us.

[Web-Junkie]

Ashover, don't forget to take his name and TEC number so you can quote them when chasing NTL for a progress report.

I'm going to call them Monday for a progress report as it's been over a week since they confirmed to me there was a fault, let's see if they have an ETA on a fix.

[steve_smith]

These upload problems seem to be going on and on, and affecting a lot of people in a lot of different areas.

It would be interesting at some point if we could help NTL establish if this is a network wide problem, or restricted to certain areas of the country.

A lot of people at NTL have looked in to my upload problem, and no-one seems to know why it's occuring. They also seem to be a bit puzzled as to why I see it as a problem when download is working fine. Had people out to check the quality of the cable connection, and everytime it all checks out fine. Also had my cable modem swapped out.

This to me is the bigger issue. Those of us who use upload a lot are affected by this problem, but a regular user is not even going to notice it (how many people actually regularly send big emails or maintain websites?). So if you are the only one in your area complaining about the problem, they are going to think it's your connection, rather than looking for an area fault.

I am currently compiling an Excel spreadsheet of ping tests at different times of the day to various sites. The figures are pretty consistent: the more bytes I send out, the more chance there is that they won't reach their destination. Approximately 20% packet loss when sending 1000 bytes, and approximately 35% packet loss when sending 2000 bytes. Hopefully this will be useful to someone at NTL when they next call me back about my ticket.

Steve.

[Web-Junkie]

Without an Upstream you wouldn't have a Downstream as the requests you send UPSTREAM via your Web Broser, FTP program, Newsreader, e-mail program etc, are acknowledged and sent back DOWNSTREAM to you and so on until you receive the data you requested.

So when a packet of data goes AWOL during the UPSTREAM transmission phase, you sit like a lemon waiting for your web page or whatever to receive the acknowledgement back to your request, but it never receives it because NTL have lost the packet of data, so you have to resend the request. This is what's happening because of the UPSTREAM problem, and NTL don't see that as a problem???

I gave up phoning them today, tried a couple of times 20+ minutes and then had to go out. Can't say I want to keep racking up a lousy phonebill from the same company that's screwed my connection for nearly 2 months now!!

[steve_smith]

Without an Upstream you wouldn't have a Downstream as the requests you send UPSTREAM via your Web Broser, FTP program, Newsreader, e-mail program etc, are acknowledged and sent back DOWNSTREAM to you and so on until you receive the data you requested.
Yes, but in my case, small packets of data like this seem to make their way through with little or no problem. It's only sending larger amounts of data that cause a problem.

My ping tests kind of prove this. Pinging with 50 bytes results in little or no packet loss. But take that up to 2000 bytes and you're looking at 35% packet loss.

I know that larger amounts of data are actually sent as a series of smaller packets. So it's almost like some machine somewhere is misbehaving and not being able to keep track of whos sending what.

Very strange, and no-one at NTL seems to have any idea what is happening.

Steve.

[Web-Junkie]

I know you understand all that network stuff, it was for the benefit of others (Hint, NTL) who may read this thread :)

[steve_smith]

I know you understand all that network stuff, it was for the benefit of others (Hint, NTL) who may read this thread :)
I wouldn't claim to be an expert :) I made the point to NTL that since small packets get through OK most of the time, the average user wouldn't notice the problem. If they get a "page could not be found" error every now and again, they'd most likely just hit refresh and not even think about the cause.

This nightmare for me could nearly be over. I read that BT have just launched this long reach ADSL thing. Typed my phone number in to the ADSL checker, and I can now get 1Mbit ADSL :tu: Previously they couldn't even guarantee 512k would work, so that's quite a big change.

I don't want to change from NTL. For one thing, it's going to cost me a lot of money. I'll have to pay an activation fee, and also replace my wireless router for one which supports ADSL. However, this "don't know whats wrong" attitude has been going on for nearly 5 months now, and I'm getting fed up with it. At the first engineer visit, they said if it didn't improve, they would replace the cable out to the street cabinet to see if that helps. 5 months later, that hasn't even happened.

However, since I can download at the full speed of the modem, I would guess the cable isn't at fault. Not being an expert, my guess is that some piece of kit somewhere back down the line is either faulty or overloaded and is dropping packets. Its all the more frustrating because I only live a couple of miles away from NTL's local office (where I believe the local network terminates). Can't imagine there is that much kit between there and here. If I lived dozens of miles away, I could understand it...

The local network manager from NTL who promised he would call me Monday to find out whether things have improved has not called back, so now I have to play this waiting game again.

If any NTL techies out that could help me out, before I get completely fed up and decide to cancel my account, then it would be very much appreciated.

Steve.

[steve_smith]

Now my connection is completely shafted again, just like it was all day on Saturday... :(

[eib]

I'm having the exact same problems with upload. I've tried every way I can think of; MSN, Yahoo briefcase, e-mail - nothing seems to work! On MSN the file fails and on everything else I get a timeout message.

I just tried an upload test and it first said 13kb per second and I did it again and it now says 105, yet my files still won't send!

I had this problem when we were on 300k and it still continues now we've upgraded to 1.5meg. I live near Sutton-in-Ash too, so maybe that's the problem. I talked to someone on broadband medic yesterday and they said it sounded like a problem with Internet Explorer. I'm no expert but I'm 100% sure that isn't the problem.

[eib]

I went on medic again, this time they closed the session before I'd even replied - great help as usual!

[Tezcatlipoca]

:welcome:

Problem with IE... :rolleyes:


Have you tried phoning Tech Support about it instead of using the crappy BB Medic?


Also, hopefully one of the ntl people here will see your post & pop along with some help.

[Web-Junkie]

eib, I live in Sutton in Ashfield and can tell you it's not Internet Explorer or your computer mate, it's flippin NTL!!!

I've done all the upload tests to Briefcase/NTL e-mail/NTL Webmail/Hotmail/FTP/USENET and it's all FUBAR! I keep trying upload tests from time to time but I'd probably get more success nailing jelly to the wall!

>Also, hopefully one of the ntl people here will see your post & pop along with some help.

They've had a blinkin long time to 'pop along with some help' then Matt!

[Ashover]

We keep hearing the same song over and over again. I just wonder how many people there are out there who have this problem and don't even realise it.

On a brighter note, the NTL engineer is coming this evening so all of my troubles will soon be over (what's that pink thing with the curly tail flying past my window?)

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/images/icons/icon7.gif

[steve_smith]

On a brighter note, the NTL engineer is coming this evening so all of my troubles will soon be over (what's that pink thing with the curly tail flying past my window?) http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/images/icons/icon7.gif
Have you tried writing to your area managing director? I did that on advice received here. To a certain extent, it has helped. I got a name and number (very helpful lady) who I can now speak to at NTL regarding the problem. She is in contact with the local network manager down here in Poole. To be fair, they are trying hard to sort the problem out. They brought forward the maintenance of our segment of the network to attempt to sort it. Evidence of this is in the number of NTL vans I've seen driving around, and parked in front of street cabinets in our area.

Strangely enough, yesterday there was a collection of NTL vans around the green cabinet I connect to, and the problem mysteriously vanished for a while (no packet loss at all, even when pinging with 2000 bytes!). However, it returned when they left.

But I am under the impression they are trying their best to get it sorted, and I have been promised another phone call today or tomorrow with a progress update.

Yes, I'm sure there are plenty of people in the same boat as us, who have no idea they have the problem! Apparently a lot of upload problems are caused by excessive noise on the network. The way they sort it out is to go "noise busting", which means checking all the street cabinets, and looking for customers with faulty equipment or damaged cabling. So if this is the case in your area, NTL need to go out and play with all the cabinets and give everything a good check over.

Steve.

[Ashover]

Well, we'll never know. Needless to say, the NTL engineer hasn't turned up! No phone call to say that he wasn't coming, no apology for not coming, absolutely nothing - it just shows the comtempt that NTL appear to have for their customers.

I take the point of writing to the correct people but have no idea of how to find out who they are so it looks like I will have to give them the elbow.

[Tezcatlipoca]

I take the point of writing to the correct people but have no idea of how to find out who they are so it looks like I will have to give them the elbow.


If you'd like to write to the people in charge of ntl, have a look here: http://www.cableforum.co.uk/kb/19/who-are-the-people-in-charge-of-ntlhome

[Ashover]

Many thanks for that, I'll get straight onto it.

[Ashover]

I just spent 30 minutes trying to track down someone about the engineer's no show, with no success.
I have also emailed the M.D. for the South and Midlands, but quite frankly, I would be amazed if I get any response. Next step is to try and get some compensation for the service that NTL are incapable of supplying.

[Tezcatlipoca]

If you get no reply from the Midlands MD, try Aizad Hussain, and, failing him, Simon Duffy.

Hussain doesn't seem too great at replying to people, but should still be the next port of call after your regional MD.

Simon Duffy seems OK. e.g. he took the time to reply to Mick's emails (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=15716) about the email problems. So if you have no luck with any of his underlings, maybe he'll be better.

[DeadKenny]

Next step is to try and get some compensation for the service that NTL are incapable of supplying.

You might squeeze compensation out of them for the service (e.g. months rental or something like that), but there's no way in hell they'll compensate for wasting your time unfortunately (I've tried many times and been told firmly and in no uncertain terms that they never compensate for time wasted/off-work/etc) :(

[steve_smith]

Frustrated here in Poole...

Had a call from the engineer on Friday to say that they had now completed the maintenance in our area, and to ask me whether my connection was any better.

So I said, no, right now it is still not working properly.

However, I pointed out that earlier in the week when the engineers were working on the green cabinet my modem connects to (which is only a couple of houses away), the upload problem mysteriously resolved itself for 15 minutes or so. Engineer couldn't understand why that was the case, but asked if I could monitor the situation over the weekend. Said that I would, but that there was little point because I could tell him right now that the problem was still there.

I asked if there was a number I could call to contact the local office of NTL directly, but was told no because they only have mobiles and don't like giving out the numbers :( Although I can understand that, I wonder why (being a telecoms company!) they don't have some kind of local contact number for customers, even if it's only an answer phone.

In my mind, the green cabinet must be where the problem is (it's too much of a coincidence that the problem, which has blighted my connection since May, would by some fluke suddenly vanish when the engineer happened to be working on the cabinet).

With this in mind, and following the detailed information I gave them (and the fact I spent the week running scripts to carefully monitor packet loss), I was expecting that something would happen on Monday to finally sort it out once and for all. Maybe someone would call, or someone would come out and look at the cabinet again. After all, I've had the problem for 5 months... Surely that would make it a priority?

However, everything has now gone quiet again. No calls from NTL, no improvement in service, and as far as I've noticed, no-one has come out to check the cabinet again.

I really am now getting fed up with it all. Tried to upload a few images to my NTL webspace last night, and it took ages (slower than modem speeds).

Any tips on how to get it sorted? (other than dumping NTL and signing up for ADSL instead - although at the moment having a ceremonial burning of the cable modem would be nice).

Steve.

[Web-Junkie]

Hi guys, just a quick update!

Just got off the phone to NTL Faults, they've given me a month free service, but no resolution :( as I was told to ring BB Support!

Spoke to a nice bloke in Swansea on BB Support who told me I really needed to speak to 'Faults'! He put me through to 'Faults' as he couldn't do much and admitted I knew more about the problem than he did!! He wasn't allowed to call Engineers either to trace existing faults like mine.

So, after 45 mins on the phone waiting to get through to their faults dept, I'm told I need to ring BB Support? Told the guy no way am I being fobbed off with that charade! He then phoned Tech Support as a chap called Lyndon Pritchard (I think that's his name) was dealing with the problem in my area. Was told they've nearly found the problem, a 'card' in a router or something the chap said but still no ETA on a fix other than 'pretty soon'!!

He did ask if other people in my area (Sutton in Ashfield) who have the upstream problem to report it, as that would help them as well!

So, it seems they are getting close (but no cigar as they say!!). And I was on the phone that long the battery started going and the phone started bleeping :eek:

What a carry on eh?

[Ashover]

Any ideas where I go now? For the second week in a row the NTL engineer failed to turn up and not even the courtesy of a phone call.
A week ago I emailed the M.D. for my region and got zero response which is pretty much the response I expected and so I have decided upon a drastic response. The only details I can give is to say that I know where and when an installation engineer will be next week.

[Web-Junkie]

I expect they get lots of e-mails from dissatisfied customers, not receiving a reply suggests not enough time in the day to read them all I guess!

I gather you've been throwing your weight around regarding the fact you know when/where the Engineer will be next week, shame he can't actually do anything other than see the problem and report it. Another week of waiting then!

[Ashover]

No, I haven't gotten around to throwing my weight around just yet! A near neighbour is having NTL installed on a free trial next Weds, but I'm very close to talking him out of it, but if not I'm seriously considering blocking the engineer's van in until I get some action.

[Web-Junkie]

Right! I understand what you mean now by 'drastic response' ;) When you ring up next, ring faults as it's an 0800 free number and press them for some compensation. I only got 1 month and was urged to press for 2 when I tackle them again!

At least we have the name of the chap who's dealing with it, so you can tell them his name, that should help them get straight to the right person, that's if you've not taken the Engineer hostage and demand NTL fix the problem before you release him :eek:

[DeadKenny]

Send them a recorded delivery letter saying the service is unacceptible and they are in breach of contract thus you are cancelling (or if you're out of minimum contract period don't mention the breach of contract bit).

See what they do then.

Though all I got was an appologetic response from their nice sounding woman in the complaints dept, but they couldn't do anything about my problems or offer compensation for all the wasted time I'd had. They admitted everything was their fault, but offered no solution.

Why on earth I stuck with them for an extra year I don't know though.

[Ashover]

I've just rung NTL but the waiting time is over 1 hour and, as I'm working and need the phone at present, it will have to wait.
The bad news is that I have to be in Birmingham next WQeds so I cannot do what I originally planned to do.

[Web-Junkie]

If you ARE on a 12 month minimum contract DO NOT CANCEL!! as you will be in breach of contract and possibly liable for the whole 12 months!! This happened to friend who signed up for Bulldog ADSL, the connection was so unstable and disconnections at night frequent he just cancelled as they hadn't fixed it after a month, leaving him with a £300+ bill!! So be warned!!

A better way would be to withold payment to them until you receive the service you are paying for. If they then cancel your contract you shouldn't (someone correct me if I'm wrong) be liable for the whole 12 months, just the ammount up until your service became unacceptable.

[Ashover]

I've been on with NTL well past 12 months so that won't be an issue.

[Ashover]

At last, someone at NTL has listened. I received this email today from Azaid Hussain.


I just picked up this email, the no show of appointments is unacceptable. I am copying my colleauge Mark Upton who can have this seen to immediately.
Many Thanks
Aizad





I rang NTL today to ask why there was a "no show" last Thursday and the answer was that someone rang me to say that the engineer couldn't come but the line was engaged and they have rebooked the appointment for Monday afternoon when I'm at work. Classic or what?

[pastaman]

I had this problem for ages, got fed up and eventually just paid £15 per year for a SMTP AUTH service. It now gives me a server that works like lightning every time, and is worth the money IMHO just to be free of the aggravation, without having to get a BT line reinstalled. It might be worth thinking about if it seems there's no light at the end of the tunnel...

[Web-Junkie]

@Ashover: Well, you got a repsonse at least :/ Pity you have to go to such lengths to get anything done. Being a bit bored last night I tried uploading some files, it took me 1.5 hours to upload seven files of about 500k each to my Yahoo Briefcase :eek:

@pastaman: I think that solution is only for e-mail and will still be subject to network errors (which is the problem here) between your PC, NTL and whoever is providing the SMTP AUTH service, so you will still hit upload problems with large e-mail attachments until NTL fix their network.

[Ashover]

Good news. My email to Aizad Hussain seems to have paid dividends and I have been in touch with a senior figure who is aware of the problem, is on the case and I will keep you posted.
Maybe the end is nigh!

[steve_smith]

Glad to hear that you are making some progress.

With my upload problem, I have more or less worked out it's not an area fault. My sister-in-law lives in the next street to us (literally, 100 metres away). I'm pretty sure therefore that she is on the same UBR and same segment of the network to us. The only difference is that she has a 300k STB service, where as we have 750k SACM. She gets absolutely no packet loss at all (went round there yesterday and had a good old test on her PC, and couldn't see a single dropped packet).

I am still bashing my head against a brick wall with regards to getting someone from the local faults department to talk to me.

The lady I have been dealing with in customer services (who has been helpful) is on holiday, but she gave me the details of another lady I could contact in the meantime. So I called last week, and they promised someone would call be back (this was Thursday or Friday last week). No call received. Phoned same lady again this morning who apologised and said someone was supposed to call me back, but obviously hadn't. Took my number and promised someone would call me today. 16h00 at the moment, and no-one has called back :(

This is so frustrating. I so don't want to have to cancel and get ADSL. It's going to cost me a lot of money to buy a wireless ADSL router and pay activation fees and what not. But I need it sorted :( Why is it so hard to get someone to do what they should be doing? Grrrr!

Steve.

[Ashover]

The NTL engineer has just been and is obviously aware of the problems, so it seems to be fairly official now.

He told me that they are resetting the system tonight which will hopefully cure it, but if not, hardware will have to be replaced. Thiis info coupled with the other info I've gleaned makes me fairly confident that the situation is close to being resolved - watch this space!

[DeadKenny]

This is so frustrating. I so don't want to have to cancel and get ADSL. It's going to cost me a lot of money to buy a wireless ADSL router and pay activation fees and what not.

Have you already got a wireless router? If so you can probably just get a standalone Ethernet ADSL modem for less than £40 and plug it into that.

Activation fees can be free depending on who you go with.

As for how much hassle it all is, I'll find out soon as my BT line is up and running now so the next step is an ADSL application (probably PlusNet).

P.S. Have you looked at ADSL prices recently in comparison to NTL? !! :shocked:



Ashover - Good luck, but the kind of answers you're getting sound like the usual runaround I've had for years. Even when they know there's a problem doesn't mean it'll get fixed.

[Web-Junkie]

Well done Ashover, it's more or less what I gleaned from them a few days ago so at least they're singing from the same hymn sheet so to speak and is confirmation enough they know of the problem! I was told it was a 'card' in a router somewhere and would be fixed pretty soon, so it maybe a hardware fault and so warrants replacement!

We shall see in the next few days ;)

[Ashover]

Well, whatever they did last night has made no difference!

[Web-Junkie]

I concur to a point, it still pauses a lot during the upload, but i'm seeing more data actually being uploaded. I did manage to upload a 1mb test file to both my Webmail and Briefcase just now, but a 5mb file still won't upload.

I also believe this better upload happened BEFORE they did anything last night as yesterday afternoon I was able to upload a 1mb file to my Briefcase first go, whereas Sunday I couldn't even upload a 0.5mb file unless I tried about 5-6 times.

[Web-Junkie]

Well, well! I know its just after 3 in the morning when this post was made, but my upload is back to normal (for how long I don't know). Just uploaded a 5mb file, twice, to my briefcase and no problem, apart from a few pauses but the upload completed!

Also tried a 3 file multiple upload (1mb, 2.5mb and 1.2mb) via Yahoo briefcase and those too uploaded :eek:

Damn! If they've fixed the problem, who we gonna bitch at now? And does it only work early in the morning?

[Web-Junkie]

Well, it's now 12:42 and the upload is still working, but it's more sporadic now (lot's more people using the bandwidth?). Some pauses of 10+ seconds while uploading a 5mb file to my Yahoo briefcase adding about another minute onto the upload time over the time it took early this morning and one upload just stopped and never completed, my briefcase was empty.

Test ftp upload of the same 5mb file to my NTL homepage was far worse, hell of a lot of pauses making the file stop at 62% and cause Error: 451, deleting the file and trying again produced a similar result stopping at 26% this time, Error: 451 again. I know NTL have 'resume' enabled and I could have just started where it failed, but this shouldn't be needed within NTL's own network. Same thing trying a 1mb file! The fact I couldn't upload the file in one go indicates a dysmal failure of NTL's ftp upload!

Looks like some piece of hardware is being overloaded during the day or if they just reset the router or whatever, it still needs tweaking?

Things are definitely moving in the right direction, although the pessimist in me thinks this may be as good as it gets!

Ashover, are things any better for you and THE RIFLE?

[Ashover]

No, nothing has changed. I'll email a contact to see if I can find out what is happening.

[Web-Junkie]

Sorry to hear that Ashover :( That may mean they just haven't yet fixed the part of the network you're connected to? Let's hope they DO fix it!!

I'm keeping an eye on my upload just in case it goes belly up again. Good luck with the e-mail.

[Web-Junkie]

Any news on your connection Ashover?

My upload is still working and has stabilised now. Have successfully uploaded files to Yahoo, Hotmail, NTL webmail, NTL FTP and Usenet, so it looks like the problem has been fixed, at least for me! Well done NTL! Just hope it's been fixed for everyone else in my area.

[steve_smith]

Still have my localised problem down in Poole. Complained and complained at all levels last week. Engineer came out Friday, admitted they had seen loads of problems in our area recently, and that NTL's upstream was poor (don't know whether he was refering to our area, or the whole country). He said I'm certainly not the only one with this complaint.

Said he would go and tweak something in the cabinet and then ring me *next week* to see how things were going. In fact, unless I misunderstood him, he was more or less saying he would wait 7 days before doing anything else :( I'm not quite sure why this is... had he come back to see me after tweaking the cabinet, I could have told him within 30 seconds that it still wasn't working.

NTL need to remember that you can have self-install ADSL ordered and working within 7 days...

Steve.

[DeadKenny]

NTL need to remember that you can have self-install ADSL ordered and working within 7 days...

Indeed, looks like that's how long mine's taking. Should be activated by Wednesday :tu:

However, getting a BT line is not so simple. It took a month to get mine reconnected :(. Though it was BT's reconnection delay that was the reason I went with NTL (then CableTel) in the first place. They quoted 3 weeks when I moved into a new house, so I said "stuff it I'll go with CableTel instead"...

*biggest* mistake of my life.

It may take a while for a BT appointment but they do a proper job. The shoddy work of the NTL installer when I moved house was a major cause of all the hassles I've had.

[steve_smith]

However, getting a BT line is not so simple. It took a month to get mine reconnected :(.
Thinking that NTL might not ever get round to fixing my problem, I had already changed back to BT analogue line a couple of months ago. So that bit is all sorted.

Probably going to sign up for ADSL tomorrow. I'm on the 750k NTL cable modem service. Thinking of going 512k down/256k up on ADSL. So far as I can see, if I don't mind dropping the download speed a bit, I actually get twice as much upload as NTL. Any other negatives or positives associated with changing from cable modem to ADSL?

Steve.

[Ignition]

Want to give me an IP address Steve so can investigate, unless you are leaving whichever way in which case don't worry about it.

[DeadKenny]

Probably going to sign up for ADSL tomorrow. I'm on the 750k NTL cable modem service. Thinking of going 512k down/256k up on ADSL. So far as I can see, if I don't mind dropping the download speed a bit, I actually get twice as much upload as NTL. Any other negatives or positives associated with changing from cable modem to ADSL?

Yeah, 256 up on 512 is a big bonus. So much cheaper than paying £38 for 1.5mbps with NTL just to get 256 up !!!

Downsides are contention at peak times (though there are often slow-down times with NTL too), limits due to line length or quality, and that you have to buy your own modem (though with NTL you are paying for it in rental effectively, even long after you've basically paid for it).

On the plus-side... flexibility, better package with some ISPs (static IPs, web space with PHP/CGI/MySQL support, unlimited download options, no transparent proxies etc), price, speed (if you have a good line, but especially the upstream), choice, and above all else customer service.

Potentially you also have reliability as far as the line itself goes. Once BT have okayed it, you shouldn't really have any signal level issues, at least not on the scale you get with NTL, and one complaint to BT and they'll be out almost next day and fix it (especially if you say your phone isn't working).

The major problem with NTL (beyond CS) is they don't test the lines they install. I would be happier if they just tested it and admitted they can't deliver cable to my house, in the same way that BT do. At least then I could have looked elsewhere instead of suffer problems all the time I've had it.


Also, ADSL is evolving. There's ADSL2/2+ round the corner, and even NTL are expanding their coverage by using ADSL rather than rolling out new cable networks (the latter of which they admit is more expensive). Cable is stagnant.

[steve_smith]

Want to give me an IP address Steve so can investigate, unless you are leaving whichever way in which case don't worry about it.
OK, have done. I need to make a decision on it this week some time, but if you can do anything to help, it would be much appreciated.

Steve.

[steve_smith]

Downsides are contention at peak times (though there are often slow-down times with NTL too), limits due to line length or quality, and that you have to buy your own modem (though with NTL you are paying for it in rental effectively, even long after you've basically paid for it).
If I change, I'm going for Zen. They are slightly more pricey than other providers, but my experience of them has been excellent. We have set up two remote sites at work with 512k and 1Mbit connections (the standard home account, not the lower contention business service). Never have any problems, and never seen any drop off in performance. 3 of my colleagues at work who use them for their home internet connections have had the same good experience.

Like you say, also get a static IP which will be useful.

Steve.

[Ashover]

Hi Web-Junkie, sorry for the delay in replying, just back from a long weekend in Barcelona. Things seem to be OK now, but rest assured I will be keeping a close eye on it.

[Web-Junkie]

Ah! You been chasing the little SeÃÃâ€*’±oritas Ashover? Hope you didn't get 'El Puerco'!!

Connection has been fine for me since last Wednesday, I think Perry Mason can take a holiday now, we don't need to threaten NTL with him :)

I know where to look if there's a problem though ;) Glad you got sorted eventually.