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mattf
20-07-2004, 11:40
I've just found this forum after a very frustrating conversation with NTL in Cambridge. Basically, the situation is this - I signed up with NTL (phone + cable) in May. They connected us, then lost the phone connection for a week. That time they compensated me and I wrote it down to teething trouble.

Last week I lost the phone service again on Friday, and it wasn't reconnected till yesterday. Same problem as before - my real number was treated as a temporary number and disconnected. Anyway - purely their mistake.

When I spoke to customer service, I was offered a pound as compensation. No joy with the supervisor. Complete stonewall. The guy couldn't even say the problem wouldn't recur.

So, what's my best chance to get someone to apologise, offer some token (rather than insulting) compensation, and try to ensure it won't happen again. Any suggestions welcome - should I try Chris Slattery maybe (is Cambridge part of South or Midlands region?)

thanks a lot,
Matt

paulyoung666
20-07-2004, 11:49
hi and :welcome: to the site , one of the mods has some useful phone numbers , it might be russ , try pm'ing hiim and see if he can help , hope you enjoy your stay here :D

seaneeboy
20-07-2004, 12:07
One pound compensation?! Where on earth did that come from?!

mattf
20-07-2004, 12:15
The woman I spoke to said that our phone was down for 3 days, and our line rental was about 31p per day, so she generously rounded it up.

paulyoung666
20-07-2004, 12:20
The woman I spoke to said that our phone was down for 3 days, and our line rental was about 31p per day, so she generously rounded it up.


in tere eyes that will be right , still not very good though :(

orangebird
20-07-2004, 13:23
OK -

Definition of Compensation:
compensate (PAY MONEY) [Show phonetics]
verb [T]
to pay someone money in exchange for something that has been lost or damaged or for some inconvenience:

So, what did you lose? The ability to make or receive phone calls.

What do you pay for that ability? £9.50 a month.

Divide £9.50 by the number of days in the month that you lost the service, then mulitply by the number of days you actually lost the service.

That is your compensation. No more, no less.

My friend died as a result of a medical error. That deserves compensation.

What compensation do you think you should be entitled too?
:rolleyes:

[edit]
1) Chris Slattery no longer works for ntl. :)
2)The guy can't say it won;t reoccur - read your t&c's, ntl do not guarantee a fault free service.

mattf
20-07-2004, 13:53
Orangebird - who do you think I should talk to if not Chris Slattery then?

I don't expect a fault-free service, but I do expect NTL not to make the exact same mistake twice (and give no guarantee not to do it again). I think I'm entitled to some compensation for my time and trouble getting the service running again, and also for the fact that if the phone goes down, I have to ring a bunch of people so they can contact me in an emergency.

Not for the money itself - just so NTL have an incentive not to screw up and then just shrug their shoulders.

Sorry to hear about your friend btw.

ian@huth
20-07-2004, 14:07
OK -



So, what did you lose? The ability to make or receive phone calls.

What do you pay for that ability? £9.50 a month.

Divide £9.50 by the number of days in the month that you lost the service, then mulitply by the number of days you actually lost the service.

That is your compensation. No more, no less.

My friend died as a result of a medical error. That deserves compensation.

What compensation do you think you should be entitled too?
:rolleyes:

[edit]1) Chris Slattery no longer works for ntl. :)
2)The guy can't say it won;t reoccur - read your t&c's, ntl do not guarantee a fault free service.


Hmmm. NTL have quite a different view on compensation than BT. What do you think BT would give in compensation for the same situation? Answer at http://www.bt.com/customerservices/cust_details.jsp?parentcat=cs_cs_guarantee&childcat=our_guarantee .

Bifta
20-07-2004, 14:14
Whoever offered him a pound needs a slap upside the head, there's being anal over compensation and there's showing customer service.

seaneeboy
20-07-2004, 14:16
OB, I think you're being a little harsh on the poor fella - Phonelines can be absolutely vital - a lifeline for the housebound, a line to the police for burglar alarms - and in general essential in an emergency.

If the house catches fire, and burns down because you couldn't call the fire brigade - how do you recon an insurance company will see that?

Phonelines are the most essential service ANY comms company should provide - it's one thing that can't be compromised on. Isn't that why phone faults are given priority?

I don't think the issue of monatory compensation is the real issue here (although you've got to admit the £1 compensation is quite funny), and I don't blame the lad for wanting a phone service that doesn't cut out all the time, and to be treated like a customer, not a user - there is a big difference.

seaneeboy
20-07-2004, 14:24
... and as a PS, £1 isn't compensation, it's a refund!

paulyoung666
20-07-2004, 14:28
... and as a PS, £1 isn't compensation, it's a refund!


true very true , but if that is ntl's policy it is their policy , again it is another case of ppl voting with their feet and going back to bt or whoever ;)

seaneeboy
20-07-2004, 14:31
indeed - the two get confused a lot. perhaps it should be more obvious that REFUNDS can be offered, but COMPENSATION is not...

... then again, I can't see NTL Marketing letting that one out, can you?

scrotnig
20-07-2004, 14:52
Each case is taken on its merits, I personally would be hard pushed to offer £1 I'd do a little more, but again it's a case of each case on its merits.

If anyone's thinking it's going to be months of free service that won't realistically happen, and BT is the same.

ian@huth
20-07-2004, 15:06
Each case is taken on its merits, I personally would be hard pushed to offer £1 I'd do a little more, but again it's a case of each case on its merits.

If anyone's thinking it's going to be months of free service that won't realistically happen, and BT is the same.

The BT site indicates otherwise:

Fixed Rate Compensation

If you choose not to have your calls diverted and we fail to repair or supply your service on time, you can claim for subsequent days:

1-3 days delay: equivalent to one month line rental
4-6 days delay: equivalent to two months line rental
7-9 days delay: equivalent to three months line rental
10 days plus delay: equivalent to four months line rental.

Alternatively, you may wish to consider claiming Actual Financial Loss.

Neil
20-07-2004, 15:29
If anyone's thinking it's going to be months of free service that won't realistically happen, and BT is the same.

Nuh-uh...:nono:

1-3 days delay: equivalent to one month line rental

http://www.bt.com/customerservices/cust_details.jsp?parentcat=cs_cs_guarantee&childcat=our_guarantee

I'd love to see ntl offer that level of service Mark. ;)

[Edit]-I've just had a read of that guarantee from BT-now I know why ntl can't offer it....:angel:

orangebird
20-07-2004, 16:13
OB, I think you're being a little harsh on the poor fella - Phonelines can be absolutely vital - a lifeline for the housebound, a line to the police for burglar alarms - and in general essential in an emergency.

If the house catches fire, and burns down because you couldn't call the fire brigade - how do you recon an insurance company will see that?

Yes I can see all that - but I don't see why ntl should give compensation for something that might have happened (fire, burglar etc ) but actually didn't. :shrug:

Phonelines are the most essential service ANY comms company should provide - it's one thing that can't be compromised on. Isn't that why phone faults are given priority?

I agree with you entirely. But I don't feel digging for compensation/freebies is going to play a part in minimising or preventing future faults.....

I don't think the issue of monatory compensation is the real issue here (although you've got to admit the £1 compensation is quite funny),

No, neither do I, IMO a (quote rightfully) disgruntled customer (unreasonably) wants an apology from the area md (why??? are they royalty??), a guarantee that the fault won't happen again (not going to happen, and I'll eat my hat if BT or any other company will guarantee that) and 'compensation'... :rolleyes: for what????

and I don't blame the lad for wanting a phone service that doesn't cut out all the time, and to be treated like a customer, not a user - there is a big difference.

Neither do I, but I don't think he said the service cuts out all the time.

So, what is the difference between a user and a customer. To be a customer, don't you have to be a user?

PS - mattf - Vas Agridhiotis is who you need to contact. :)

scrotnig
20-07-2004, 16:18
Nuh-uh...:nono:



http://www.bt.com/customerservices/cust_details.jsp?parentcat=cs_cs_guarantee&childcat=our_guarantee

I'd love to see ntl offer that level of service Mark. ;)

[Edit]-I've just had a read of that guarantee from BT-now I know why ntl can't offer it....:angel:
1 month line rental. Like I said, MONTHS of free line rental isn't going to happen. 1 single month might, depending on the circumstances.

Neil
20-07-2004, 16:20
No, neither do I, IMO a (quote rightfully) disgruntled customer (unreasonably) wants an apology from the area md (why??? are they royalty??), a guarantee that the fault won't happen again (not going to happen, and I'll eat my hat if BT or any other company will guarantee that)

Mmmm-can I feed it to you!? :D

BT value your custom. Thatâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s why we aim to provide you with a service you can trust and depend on and a commitment to help you in the unlikely event that you have a problem with your service.

Our Customer Service Guarantee means that if you experience difficulties with your service, we will make it our priority to keep you connected by offering to divert your incoming calls to a number of your choice. Alternatively, you may be entitled to claim Fixed Rate Compensation.

Now-that is a guarantee, no question about it, the "guarantee" kicks into gear when the failure occurs, but the guarantee is there for all to see.

http://www.bt.com/customerservices/cust_details.jsp?parentcat=cs_cs_guarantee&childcat=our_guarantee

Now-would madam like fries or new potatoes with her hat!? :angel:

Neil
20-07-2004, 16:23
1 month line rental. Like I said, MONTHS of free line rental isn't going to happen. 1 single month might, depending on the circumstances.

Hmmm-you say might above, yet earlier you said...

I personally would be hard pushed to offer £1 I'd do a little more

Does a 'little more' mean a month Mark? :)

SMHarman
20-07-2004, 16:24
The BT compensation scheme is very good and claiming is just asking them on the phone. The money then appears on your bill, or if it's a lot they write you a cheque. I had massive problems with my Home Highway ISDN when it was first installed and BT had a lack of ISDN engineers to deal with it so my phone was out for two blocks of 10 days and another block of 4 days. With a mobile and NTL line I was not in a rush for them to repair it either. As this was the beginings of HH and £50 a month line rental I ended up with free line rental for the first year - bonus.

mattf
20-07-2004, 16:29
OB - I would happily have accepted an apology from the guys in the Cambridge office. They seemed not to want to offer one.

As far as guarantees go - all I want is that come next month when they sweep their list of temporary numbers, my number is not on there and I don't get disconnected. Person A needs to talk to Person B. I don't expect a guarantee that nothing ever ever ever will go wrong with my account again.

Thanks for all your replies.

toytown
20-07-2004, 16:30
So, what is the difference between a user and a customer. To be a customer, don't you have to be a user?
A customer is a user who pays for a commodity or service.

The whole approach to NTLs customer service just sux, if you check a thread i posted in earlier you will see that i was told "just cross your fingers" on our phone line which has been on-off for almost 2 weeks now. Now when my friends and family come round do you think i will promote the services of NTL to them? Maybe i'll just uses NTL's method and tell them to flip a coin.

orangebird
20-07-2004, 16:37
Mmmm-can I feed it to you!? :D



Now-that is a guarantee, no question about it, the "guarantee" kicks into gear when the failure occurs, but the guarantee is there for all to see.

http://www.bt.com/customerservices/cust_details.jsp?parentcat=cs_cs_guarantee&childcat=our_guarantee

Now-would madam like fries or new potatoes with her hat!? :angel:

No Neil, that is not a guarantee of a fault free service. It's a 'plan b' for when something does go wrong, until the fault is fixed. Big difference. So hold the fries please, I don't think I need them ;)

orangebird
20-07-2004, 16:40
A customer is a user who pays for a commodity or service.

I agree - but the post I replied to about that said that 'customer' and 'user' were seperate... :shrug:

The whole approach to NTLs customer service just sux, if you check a thread i posted in earlier you will see that i was told "just cross your fingers" on our phone line which has been on-off for almost 2 weeks now. Now when my friends and family come round do you think i will promote the services of NTL to them? Maybe i'll just uses NTL's method and tell them to flip a coin.


Some CS reps' approach to customer service does suck. But not all of it. There are some great reps out there who thrive on giving excellent customer service, and I think it's very unfair of you to come out with such a sweeping, generic statement.

SMHarman
20-07-2004, 16:42
OB, I think you're being a little harsh on the poor fella - Phonelines can be absolutely vital - a lifeline for the housebound, a line to the police for burglar alarms - and in general essential in an emergency.

If the house catches fire, and burns down because you couldn't call the fire brigade - how do you recon an insurance company will see that?

Phonelines are the most essential service ANY comms company should provide - it's one thing that can't be compromised on. Isn't that why phone faults are given priority?
<snip>

Exactly, this is why the telephone cabinets have battery backup built in incase of power failiure. BB/DTV does not have such failover as it is not a requirement because it is not an essential service.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/publications/consumer/consguides/cons0602.htm

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/publications/consumer/consguides/cons0602.htm#Yourrights

Your rights as a telephone customer
What rights do I have?
You have many rights as a telephone customer.

Some rights apply only when you are dealing with BT or Kingston Communications in Hull, others apply when you are dealing with all phone companies.

You also have all the rights that everyone has under general consumer law, such as the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

Do I have the right to a phone service?

Yes. Itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s important that every person in the UK has access to basic telephone services, so BT †“ or, if you live in Hull, Kingston Communications †“ must provide you with a fixed phone service at an affordable price. You can use this phone service to make national, international, operator and directory-enquiry calls.

Do I have any extra rights if I am older or have a disability?
Yes †“ phone companies must provide some extra services, which can include:

a priority repair service if your telephone connection, whether it is fixed or mobile, stops working;
free directory enquiries if you cannot use a phone book;
bills in an acceptable format such as large print, Braille or audiotape;
text relay services if you have hearing difficulties.

The same legislation makes disconnection of phone lines all teh more difficult. Outgoing blocks (except 100, 112 and 999) but not a disconnect.

I agree - but the post I replied to about that said that 'customer' and 'user' were seperate... :shrug:

To NTL the customer is the one who pays the bill, head of household, signatory on the contract.

In addition to the customer, who when they pick up the phone is a user of the service, their partner, friends, children etc who may use the phone line connected to that house are also users of the service.

Neil
20-07-2004, 16:55
No Neil, that is not a guarantee of a fault free service. It's a 'plan b' for when something does go wrong, until the fault is fixed. Big difference. So hold the fries please, I don't think I need them ;)

You should have gone to Specsavers!! :cool:

A guarantee is exactly that, a promise that if something goes wrong that it will be sorted.

Do ntl have such a gurantee? (no)

All they say is that they "don't gurantee a fault free service"-not what they guarantee to do if it does develop a fault. :rolleyes: :td:

Whatever way you look at it-BT offer a guarantee.....

Extra fries for Miss Bird please! :D

toytown
20-07-2004, 16:56
Some CS reps' approach to customer service does suck. But not all of it. There are some great reps out there who thrive on giving excellent customer service, and I think it's very unfair of you to come out with such a sweeping, generic statement.
Whilst you make thing its unfair, these are the only kind of people i have dealt within in the last 3 years as an NTL customer.

1. From having support people cut me off numerous times whilst trying to pass me from person to person (and me having to indure another 20-30 minutes call over again).
2. People who blatantly lie to you about whats happening, my cable modem was down in rugeley about a month ago, when i phoned them up and told them the area was down they denied it and told me it was just a local fault and there was no issues elsewhere. I would have accepted a "Im not sure what the status is in your area" but not a very forcefull "your the only one experiencing problems sir"
3. Support telling me that i have to crosss my fingers and hope
4. Trying to get through to support at 6:30 about a month or two ago and told that my problem wouldnt be answered today as support was busy so phone back tommorow.

If you were to have the same problems with your other utilities like electricity/gas/water would you accept the same level of incompetance?

orangebird
20-07-2004, 16:58
You should have gone to Specsavers!! :cool:

A guarantee is exactly that, a promise that if something goes wrong that it will be sorted-do ntl have such a gurantee? All they say is that they don't gurantee a fault free service-not what they guarantee to do if it does develop a fault. :rolleyes: :td:

Whatever way you look at it-BT offer a guarantee.....

Extra fries for Miss Bird please! :D


Neil we're not taling about guarantees in general - go back to my post where you picked this up, I stated about no-one guaranteeing a fault free service - fault free means no fault - not that if there is a fault we'll sort it so you're not affected.

Please stop twisting my words to suit you. You are neither stupid nor ingnorant, quite the opposite, but choosing only to reply to ceratin parts of posts only serves to contradict my opinion of you :(

Nemesis
20-07-2004, 17:00
/pulls up chair, gets popcorn, and settles in for a night of word Boxing ...
Ding Ding Round Three :D :D :D

orangebird
20-07-2004, 17:01
/pulls up chair, gets popcorn, and settles in for a night of word Boxing ...
Ding Ding Round Three :D :D :D


Nemmy, please tell me that you at least understand what I'm getting at??? :erm:

orangebird
20-07-2004, 17:04
<snip>

If you were to have the same problems with your other utilities like electricity/gas/water would you accept the same level of incompetance?

No, I'd cut my losses and give my heard earned cash to another company... :rolleyes:

Nemesis
20-07-2004, 17:05
Guarantees are subjective ... it's all down to the small print.

A Guarantee entitles the user/purchaser to receive a replacement product, or have the faulty goods fixed. That's basically it.

BT offer no better a guarantee that NTL, when applied to the service, as BT cannot offer a "fault free service".

How each company deals with a fault/problem is extremely diverse. To compare BT with NTL on this point is unfair.

SMHarman
20-07-2004, 17:07
Neil we're not taling about guarantees in general - go back to my post where you picked this up, I stated about no-one guaranteeing a fault free service - fault free means no fault - not that if there is a fault we'll sort it so you're not affected.

Please stop twisting my words to suit you.
Makes a change I'm backing Neil on this one.

Nobody can guarantee a fault free service. :D Of course they cannot.

What they can guarantee is the action they will take to resolve that fault and compensate the customer for the inconvinience that fault has caused, time off work waiting for an engineer, extra mobile phone call costs, inability to do things they would prefer to do. NTL do not seem to be able to offer such a guarantee or compensation, merely best endevours. BT, Kingston etc do offer such a guarantee (what does TW do anybody?).

BT's compensation scheme is not set by government or because it was once the state providor of telco, it is part of the value add of their service. They believe that they can get more customers having and honouring such a guarantee, than by not.

It's the same in many other industries, where the better perfoming manufacturers offer better guarantees, Mielie's 10 year guarantee for household appliances, Dyson 2 years on erm Dysons. Honda and the Japanese car manufacturers when they moved from a 1 year 12,000 mile to 3 year 60,000 mile warranty.

Nemesis
20-07-2004, 17:08
A guarantee is exactly that, a promise that if something goes wrong that it will be sorted.Agreed

Do ntl have such a gurantee? (no)Actually yes they do, it's in the terms and conditions.

All they say is that they "don't gurantee a fault free service"-not what they guarantee to do if it does develop a fault. :rolleyes: :td:Nor do BT, or anyone, it's usually best endeavours ...

Whatever way you look at it-BT offer a guarantee.....Words are great, where's the evidence that it actually happens ??

Nemesis
20-07-2004, 17:11
This argument can be applied to other industries as well .... Cars, Washing Machines, Driers, Tele's. There will be Heaven and Hell stories there too.

Not everyone operated the same way, some are better some are worse. But NTL are NOT that bad at fixing faults, once they have recognised the fact that there is one.

The biggest fault with NTL is the CS, more training and understanding of their own Network.

orangebird
20-07-2004, 17:12
Makes a change I'm backing Neil on this one.

Nobody can guarantee a fault free service. :D Of course they cannot.

What they can guarantee is the action they will take to resolve that fault and compensate the customer for the inconvinience that fault has caused, time off work waiting for an engineer, extra mobile phone call costs, inability to do things they would prefer to do. NTL do not seem to be able to offer such a guarantee or compensation, merely best endevours. BT, Kingston etc do offer such a guarantee (what does TW do anybody?).

BT's compensation scheme is not set by government or because it was once the state providor of telco, it is part of the value add of their service. They believe that they can get more customers having and honouring such a guarantee, than by not.

It's the same in many other industries, where the better perfoming manufacturers offer better guarantees, Mielie's 10 year guarantee for household appliances, Dyson 2 years on erm Dysons. Honda and the Japanese car manufacturers when they moved from a 1 year 12,000 mile to 3 year 60,000 mile warranty.


Holy crap, what does it take to get you people to read just what is typed, not expand on what you like to think I may have typed just so you can catch me out?????

I quoted that no-one gurantees a FAULT FREE SERVICE (END!!!!!!!),and that I would eat my hat if any other company did offer a FAULT FREE SERVICE (END!!!!!). And no-one does, not even BT. I made no comparison to what either company do in the event of a fault.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

However, please feel free to ad lib on my words, to suit your own argument.... :mad:

orangebird
20-07-2004, 17:17
Guarantees are subjective ... it's all down to the small print.

A Guarantee entitles the user/purchaser to receive a replacement product, or have the faulty goods fixed. That's basically it.

BT offer no better a guarantee that NTL, when applied to the service, as BT cannot offer a "fault free service".

How each company deals with a fault/problem is extremely diverse. To compare BT with NTL on this point is unfair.

Halle- bloody- luja. Someone gets it, someone actually looked at my point OBJECTIVELY, WITHOUT BIAS, OR PREJUDICE. I luv you Nemmy. XX

Neil
20-07-2004, 17:21
Halle- bloody- luja. Someone gets it, someone actually looked at my point OBJECTIVELY, WITHOUT BIAS, OR PREJUDICE. I luv you Nemmy. XX

But ntl still don't offer the same guarantees that BT do ! :angel:

I do take your point btw OB (you know I do ;) )

Just for the record-I know no one "guarantees" a fault free service, but they kinda do, as a "guarantee" is something that you put into place in the event of a failure-I.E you buy a brand new car, it is "guaranteed" against breaking down, that doesn't mean it won't break down, it just means that you are covered against costs/replacement car etc etc in the event of a breakdown.

If you get my drift.....:erm:

th'engineer
20-07-2004, 17:28
I remember being with BT when my phone was down for three days due to water damage in the cables tto the exchange they sent me a hamper it was a total surprise.

An apology letter and free call credit

No arguing with CS no having to ring up many times

I was quite impressed, a few months later got talked into cable TV with a Cable and Wireless salesman, cheaper calls to the middle east etc ( now more expensive with NTL).

You must admit NTL need to learn to compensate like BT

dr wadd
20-07-2004, 21:57
I quoted that no-one gurantees a FAULT FREE SERVICE (END!!!!!!!),and that I would eat my hat if any other company did offer a FAULT FREE SERVICE (END!!!!!). And no-one does, not even BT. I made no comparison to what either company do in the event of a fault.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I agree, no one offers a fault free service. However, I, and I would guess a good many other people, would take this to refer to faults in the technical sense, a broken cable, a downed line, that sort of thing. I do not assume that they mean fault in the general sense of the term.

In this instance, as it has been described in the original post, it is not a fault, it is an error on the part of NTL that could have been entirely avoided, and is due to incompetence on the part of one of more individuals.

Do you not think NTL have an obligation to provide a service without making this sort of stupid mistake? This is not an issue that was beyond their control, this is an issue entirely within their control. Whether the problem be poor training or a monkey in the workplace, NTL need to pay attention to this situation and ensure that it does not happen again. As has been stated earlier, a telephone can be an important lifeline for some people and it is simply not acceptable for that lifeline to be removed simply because there is some idiot dealing with customer accounts.

If I were in this situation you can bet your life that I would be pushing for an apology, I would be pushing for some form of compensation, and I would be pushing for a guarantee that this sort of problem wouldn`t happen again. This is not a back-hoe incident, this is an error with procedure and process, and those should be structure to ensure that this sort of mistake cannot be made. Given the context of the guarantee asked for in the original post, I honestly do not believe that this is an unreasonable demand to make.

I know you like to defend NTL, loyalty to an employer is commendable, but sometimes you are attempting to defend the indefensible. There is a fine line between blind loyalty and blind ignorance, I would hope you do not make the mistake of crossing that line.

gooner4life
20-07-2004, 22:11
I spoke to a guy today who has had no telephone service with BT for 2 weeks now, apparantly a construction issue has cropped up after they installed him and started charging him for the service, he has been offered no compensation and no explanation about why this wasnt picked up before the install, hes now disconnecting with them and getting an NTL phone line.

Maggy J
20-07-2004, 22:46
I remember being with BT when my phone was down for three days due to water damage in the cables tto the exchange they sent me a hamper it was a total surprise.

An apology letter and free call credit

No arguing with CS no having to ring up many times

I was quite impressed, a few months later got talked into cable TV with a Cable and Wireless salesman, cheaper calls to the middle east etc ( now more expensive with NTL).

You must admit NTL need to learn to compensate like BT

They do too much of that and they will cut into the bosses bonus.

Incog.

arcamalpha2004
21-07-2004, 10:45
I spoke to a guy today who has had no telephone service with BT for 2 weeks now, apparantly a construction issue has cropped up after they installed him and started charging him for the service, he has been offered no compensation and no explanation about why this wasnt picked up before the install, hes now disconnecting with them and getting an NTL phone line.

This does not mean he has'nt jumped from the frying pan into the fire does it?
It is all about how companies handle their customers, forget all this, well divide your monthly rental by x and this is all you get.
Do'nt say, well BT do the same thing, because it is not BT that NTL should be concerned with, it is keeping hold of your customers, and that means moving the earth to do it.
Yes, faults cannot be avoided, we know that, but sometimes NTL just seem incapable of giving what they spout they will, and when a problem occurs the customer is treated like just an annoying piece of rubbish on the heel of their feet.

Neil
21-07-2004, 11:14
This does not mean he has'nt jumped from the frying pan into the fire does it?
It is all about how companies handle their customers, forget all this, well divide your monthly rental by x and this is all you get.
Do'nt say, well BT do the same thing, because it is not BT that NTL should be concerned with, it is keeping hold of your customers, and that means moving the earth to do it.
Yes, faults cannot be avoided, we know that, but sometimes NTL just seem incapable of giving what they spout they will, and when a problem occurs the customer is treated like just an annoying piece of rubbish on the heel of their feet.

Well summed up. :tu:

Nemesis
21-07-2004, 11:41
So .....

NTL have no guarantee that matches BT ..... so what ...

NTL will use best endeavours to rectify a fault.
BT will use best endeavours to rectify a fault.

If the NTL fault is an extended fault they do on occasion offer compensation, if you ask for it.
If the BT fault is an extended fault they do offer compensation, if you ask for it.

BT have been going a lot longer than NTL, and the guarantee quoted earlier is strictly for phone lines only. NTL have a more diverse product range, and still have some ground to catch up on, but I will say again, they are getting better.

The recent problem I had with the phone line bore that out too. Not everyone who has experienced a fault will automatically clamber on the compensation bandwagon, most are just happy that the fault has been rectified.

I'm not saying that NTL are wonderful in all aspects of their business, the CS experience really needs attention, but they are getting better.

Stuart
21-07-2004, 11:48
Guarantees are subjective ... it's all down to the small print.

A Guarantee entitles the user/purchaser to receive a replacement product, or have the faulty goods fixed. That's basically it.

BT offer no better a guarantee that NTL, when applied to the service, as BT cannot offer a "fault free service".

How each company deals with a fault/problem is extremely diverse. To compare BT with NTL on this point is unfair.Actually, I think that a guarantee, when applied to a service with no actual physical product (such as a phone service) implies certain levels of service.

True, BT cannot guarantee a fault free service, nobody can. You can have the most advanced and best maintained phone network in the world, but all it takes is for someone to dig through one of the cables and you get a fault. I don't think anyone expects NTL to offer this.

It's also true that how each company reacts to a fault is different. This is where I think NTL could improve. Looking through their site, BT do NOT guarantee a fault free service. They do, however, state that in the event of a fault, they will offer free call diversion (don't know if NTL do this), and offer compensation.

So, Nemy, I do not understand how you can say BT and NTL cannot be compared in this way. Both TelCos do suffer faults. Both do (in my experience) fix them quickly, but, if BT fail the customer in any way, they compensate (according to the website, in most cases it is automatic). NTL don't do this without asking. IMO. if NTL want to compete with BT (and they do need to), they should do this.

One final point: When I was first upgraded to 1Mb, I had major problems with the STB dropping the connection (actually, at one point I was without any broadband connection for nearly two weeks). It took several phonecalls and about 4 or 5 engineer visits to convince NTL that there was a fault with the STB, and that the problem wasn't with my own hardware (which, being a technician, I could have told them over the phone). I did feel at the time that I should have been offered some sort of compensation for this. I shouldn't have had to ask.

Edit: Having said all that, I am with both BT and NTL, and I can honestly say that I have had very few problems that either company have not sorted out quickly, so I have no real complaints about either company.

dr wadd
21-07-2004, 11:52
So .....

NTL have no guarantee that matches BT ..... so what ...

NTL will use best endeavours to rectify a fault.
BT will use best endeavours to rectify a fault.

If the NTL fault is an extended fault they do on occasion offer compensation, if you ask for it.
If the BT fault is an extended fault they do offer compensation, if you ask for it.


But as I pointed out above, I do not believe that issues of "fault" in the sense it is being commonly use here apply. This is not a "fault" in the technical sense which could be unavoidable, this is a "fault" in terms of personal or systemic incompetance.

Nemesis
21-07-2004, 11:57
<snip>
So, Nemy, I do not understand how you can say BT and NTL cannot be compared in this way. Both TelCos do suffer faults. Both do (in my experience) fix them quickly, but, if BT fail the customer in any way, they compensate. NTL don't do this.
BT will offer it if asked, NTL do on occasion. I believe that on this occasion the customer encountered an unsupportive CS employee. IMO the CS should have been more co-operative with the customer, and need to offer a uniform level of Customer Support. This I believe will come with time, the franchises operate independently, the networks are different, even down to the phone service. With such a fractured infrastructure as this, it will be difficult for NTL to provide the same uniform level of CS that BT do.

Things are getting better, and as things progress the CS level of support will increase too. I don't believe that there is any real policy within NTL to fix problems to any timescale, certainly not that can be applied across the whole group. Best endeavours is what you will get, and some will be better than others.

Slowly the fragmentation will decrease, NTL are/have already invested heavily in the BB Network for the upcoming upgrades, hopefully this will continue with further investment in other areas of their infrastructure.

Neil
21-07-2004, 12:02
BT will offer it if asked, NTL do on occasion.

The difference is that BT have to because they have a service guarantee.

ntl have no such guarantee if they let you down-I wonder why..... :scratch:

Stuart
21-07-2004, 12:08
BT will offer it if asked, NTL do on occasion. I believe that on this occasion the customer encountered an unsupportive CS employee. IMO the CS should have been more co-operative with the customer, and need to offer a uniform level of Customer Support. This I believe will come with time, the franchises operate independently, the networks are different, even down to the phone service. With such a fractured infrastructure as this, it will be difficult for NTL to provide the same uniform level of CS that BT do.

<snip>Fair enough. As I have said in the past, all companies do have good and bad employees. BT has been touted many times on this site as an example of good service, but I have had variable service from them too (sometimes good, sometimes bad). Same with NTL really.

The loss of broadband example I gave above isn't really anyones fault (it was a dying STB), but I wasn't too impressed that each time I called, I had to go through exactly the same procedure (which didn't work reliably the first time I did it, so I didn't hold out too much hope for all the others). It was as if whoever I spoke to wasn't actually logging that I had had problems, so the next C/S person didn't know I'd been through the procedure.

But, eventually, I managed to persuade an engineer to give me a new STB, and that solved the problem.

BTW, Nemesis, according to the website, if BT do disconnect you accidently, they automatically offer compensation. I see no reason why NTL could not do this. They would need to do what BT have done, and ensure processes and safeguards are put in place to prevent problems, but BT have managed it, NTL should be able to eventually.

seaneeboy
21-07-2004, 12:14
Nemmy's just hit upon the crux for me - the level of Customer support we get from NTL should be uniform and fair, not a lottery of how generous the operator is feeling.

Neil
21-07-2004, 12:16
BTW, Nemesis, according to the website, if BT do disconnect you accidently, they automatically offer compensation. I see no reason why NTL could not do this. They would need to do what BT have done, and ensure processes and safeguards are put in place to prevent problems, but BT have managed it, NTL should be able to eventually.

The difference is that BT have to because they have a service guarantee.

ntl have no such guarantee if they let you down-I wonder why..... :scratch:

Neil
21-07-2004, 12:17
Nemmy's just hit upon the crux for me - the level of Customer support we get from NTL should be uniform and fair, not a lottery of how generous the operator is feeling.

That is absolutely spot on.

The difference is with BT, that it doesn't matter one iota what the CSR thinks you are entitled to for 'X' fault, the BT Guarantee clearly & openly states what you will receive.

SMHarman
21-07-2004, 12:22
This whole £10 a month = 33p a day thing is not compensation, it is restitution, you paid for a contracted service that did not operate so therefore it is probably illegal to take money for something you did not proved.

Compensation goes over and above refunding the monies for the days you did not have a service (i.e. pro rata charging for the working period of the month).

orangebird
21-07-2004, 12:29
This whole £10 a month = 33p a day thing is not compensation, it is restitution, you paid for a contracted service that did not operate so therefore it is probably illegal to take money for something you did not proved.

Compensation goes over and above refunding the monies for the days you did not have a service (i.e. pro rata charging for the working period of the month).

So what compensation do you think is due for 3 days loss of phone line?

Nemesis
21-07-2004, 12:32
Do ntl have such a gurantee? (no)

Agreed, I've looked and spoken to them, and there is no such guarantee .... :(, but I still stand by my points above.

Neil
21-07-2004, 12:32
So what compensation do you think is due for 3 days loss of phone line?

Personally, it's not about the phone line costs, it's about the way that the problem was handled (or not)

Nemesis
21-07-2004, 12:32
So what compensation do you think is due for 3 days loss of phone line?
/waits for "Same as BT" .....

Nemesis
21-07-2004, 12:33
Personally, it's not about the phone line costs, it's about the way that the problem was handled (or not)
yep, agreed .... this thread was not as much about compensation, as how the customer was handled.

orangebird
21-07-2004, 12:33
Personally, it's not about the phone line costs, it's about the way that the problem was handled (or not)

Good for you. But that's not what I asked, or what the start of this thread was about.

Again - So what compensation do you think is due for 3 days loss of phone line?

Neil
21-07-2004, 12:36
Good for you. But that's not what I asked, or what the start of this thread was about.

Yes it is :erm:

When I spoke to customer service, I was offered a pound as compensation. No joy with the supervisor. Complete stonewall.
thanks a lot,
Matt


Again - So what compensation do you think is due for 3 days loss of phone line?

Same as BT? :D

Nemesis
21-07-2004, 12:39
/waits for "Same as BT" .....
... and there it is :D

dr wadd
21-07-2004, 12:51
Good for you. But that's not what I asked, or what the start of this thread was about.

Again - So what compensation do you think is due for 3 days loss of phone line?

In this instance, given that the problem should have been avoidable in the first place, I don`t think that free line rental for 2 or 3 months would be unreasonable.

If there is no accountability for NTL interms of incompetence then what incentive do they actually have to improve the service?

seaneeboy
21-07-2004, 13:01
Good for you. But that's not what I asked, or what the start of this thread was about.

Again - So what compensation do you think is due for 3 days loss of phone line?
It's unfair to ask a victim how much they think they should recieve, and they should never have to be made to feel uncomfortable.

There are professionals who can decide how much compensation is suitable under different circumstances - how to you think BT got their levels?

I'm no expert on compensation levels so will not be drawn on how much I think is suitable. A brief consultation excercise by NTL would settle all these inconsistancies in one fell swoop.

[EDIT] Inflammatory comment removed

SMHarman
21-07-2004, 13:07
So what compensation do you think is due for 3 days loss of phone line?

BT have a nice simple process that doles out a bit of cash and gives people a warm fuzzy feeling.

How much do I think is reasonable in this case. Well I think the OP should work out how many hours they have spent waiting around for NTL to visit, on hold to / speaking to NTL and multiply that by at a minimum £6, or their salary. Thats how much it has potentially cost them. If they have had to take a day off work because of it then lets work out what a days holiday is worth to the OP, if they earn £30,000 a year have 4 weeks holiday and 2 weeks of statutory holidays then they earn 30000/46=652 or 130 a day, make a simpele 33% tax and NI adjustment they take home £87 a day. So if NTL made them wait at home all day then lets say £87, that is fair recompense.

... and i did'nt say "Same as BT" :dunce: doh I just did!

It's unfair to ask a victim how much they think they should recieve, and they should never have to be made to feel uncomfortable.

There are professionals who can decide how much compensation is suitable under different circumstances - how to you think BT got their levels?

I'm no expert on compensation levels so will not be drawn on how much I think is suitable. A brief consultation excercise by NTL would settle all these inconsistancies in one fell swoop.

OB, it sounds like you're trying to goad the other users here into suggesting figures for you to ridicule, which isn't very nice IMO :)
Hmm, when you look at the calculations in my post you can see that BT's numbers compared to the amounts the customer could justifyable ask for are quite low, yet most feel they are reasonable - cunning heh.

OB riducule away. I've made claims like this before and been paid them. They know if it got to a small claims court they would need to and the hourly rate the legal department charge would probably exceed the claim in 20 minutes.

orangebird
21-07-2004, 13:10
It's unfair to ask a victim how much they think they should recieve, and they should never have to be made to feel uncomfortable.
I wasn't asking the 'VICTIM'... LMAO - You think he'd lost a limb in some terrible medical blunder... :rolleyes:

I was asking anybody who didn't think a refund of theio service lost was enough. There seem to be plenty on here who would ask for compensation that don't seem particularly uncomfortable vocalising what they think they shouldn't have received (ie £1).... .

There are professionals who can decide how much compensation is suitable under different circumstances - how to you think BT got their levels?
I have no idea, further more, I don't care. :)

I'm no expert on compensation levels so will not be drawn on how much I think is suitable. A brief consultation excercise by NTL would settle all these inconsistancies in one fell swoop.

[EDIT] Inflammatory comment removed
Then I suggest you sort your hearing out. All I wanted was opinions. So many people have their ideas on what constitutes crap compensation - I wanted someone to let me know what their idea of good compensation is. [EDIT] Inflammatory comment removed. So, thank you Dr Wadd, for being the only one to actually answer my question. :) :tu:

SMHarman
21-07-2004, 13:18
<snip>So, thank you Dr Wadd, for being the only one to actually answer my question. :) :tu:
I've got around to responding now, been a bit busy this morning to construct a reply.

Which brings this full circle back to your earlier post that I missed.

<snip>My friend died as a result of a medical error. That deserves compensation.

What compensation do you think you should be entitled too?
:rolleyes:
Firstly I am saddened to hear that. What do I think he should be entitled too. Well depending on his circumstances sufficient to support his family in the style they were accustomed to until their dying days. Or compensation to those near, parents siblings etc so they could take some time out to reflect on his life, and maybe put some funds to charitable causes that will help others in his situation. Sadly the medical profession are very good at closing ranks in such situations.

Maggy J
21-07-2004, 13:21
Actually OB you asked a question I wanted a straightforward answer to.Interesting that there were very few direct replies.

As for suggesting that OB is out to cause upset!!Piffle.She just doesn't suffer fools and I can see her point that some people expect too much and forget that a business can only respond as a business not a social service.

Anyway to suggest these days that a landline is the ONLY form of telecommunication is a misnomer.We are in the age of the mobile and most households even those of the elderly have access to another source of communication.

I think that compensation should have been restitution of the loss of service for each day and the same amount again for the inconvenience.A months free service should come later if the problem isn't resolved.After this then the customer should be asking themselves if they want to stay anyway.

Incog.

orangebird
21-07-2004, 13:25
I've got around to responding now, been a bit busy this morning to construct a reply.

Which brings this full circle back to your earlier post that I missed.


Firstly I am saddened to hear that. What do I think he should be entitled too. Well depending on his circumstances sufficient to support his family in the style they were accustomed to until their dying days. Or compensation to those near, parents siblings etc so they could take some time out to reflect on his life, and maybe put some funds to charitable causes that will help others in his situation. Sadly the medical profession are very good at closing ranks in such situations.

She was 19 with no dependants, diagnosed with gastroenteritus (sp??), when it was really a burst appendix. The rest is easy...

- I think the sum her parents received wasn't even 5 figures. And her parents weren't bothered about the money, just that someone from the NHS took reposponsibility for her death.

The point I'm trying to make is (not ridicule if I can possibly help it,) is that people whine for compensation for three days of not being able to use the phone. IMO, those that find this of utmost importance need to work out their priorities. All :notopic: but linked...:shrug:

seaneeboy
21-07-2004, 13:25
I wasn't asking the 'VICTIM'... LMAO - You think he'd lost a limb in some terrible medical blunder... :rolleyes:

I was asking anybody who didn't think a refund of theio service lost was enough. There seem to be plenty on here who would ask for compensation that don't seem particularly uncomfortable vocalising what they think they shouldn't have received (ie £1).... .They recieved bad customer service, and mockery all round - sounds fairly victim like to me.


I have no idea, further more, I don't care. :)
How can you expect to have a balanced argument if you don't want to look at the competition? If we're trying to create a constructive idea of what compensation should be, I think it would be wise to look at what other people are offering.

And if you don't care, why post so much?

Then I suggest you sort your hearing out. All I wanted was opinions. So many people have their ideas on what constitutes crap compensation - I wanted someone to let me know what their idea of good compensation is. and all I was doing was questioning the relevancy of asking for those opinions when they're clearly not being done in an effective market research style.

[EDIT] Inflammatory comment removed
Sean

seaneeboy
21-07-2004, 13:30
<snip> I can see her point that some people expect too much and forget that a business can only respond as a business not a social service.

Anyway to suggest these days that a landline is the ONLY form of telecommunication is a misnomer.We are in the age of the mobile and most households even those of the elderly have access to another source of communication.

Who on earth would a business rely on people using other businesses as a backup?

"Sorry your phoneline's dead - why not use your mobile instead?"

"Digital telly not too great? Go off to sky then!"

OK, perhaps i'm getting a wee bitty carried away there - apologies for any ill feeling.

orangebird
21-07-2004, 13:42
Actually OB you asked a question I wanted a straightforward answer to.Interesting that there were very few direct replies.

Exactly. Quite frustrating....

As for suggesting that OB is out to cause upset!!Piffle.She just doesn't suffer fools and I can see her point that some people expect too much and forget that a business can only respond as a business not a social service.

Thanks for seeing my POV. :)

Anyway to suggest these days that a landline is the ONLY form of telecommunication is a misnomer.We are in the age of the mobile and most households even those of the elderly have access to another source of communication.

I was going to say that, but no doubt I'd have got shot down in flames....

I think that compensation should have been restitution of the loss of service for each day and the same amount again for the inconvenience.A months free service should come later if the problem isn't resolved.After this then the customer should be asking themselves if they want to stay anyway.

Incog.
:tu:

orangebird
21-07-2004, 13:47
They recieved bad customer service, and mockery all round - sounds fairly victim like to me.




How can you expect to have a balanced argument if you don't want to look at the competition? If we're trying to create a constructive idea of what compensation should be, I think it would be wise to look at what other people are offering.

And if you don't care, why post so much?

and all I was doing was questioning the relevancy of asking for those opinions when they're clearly not being done in an effective market research style.

[EDIT] Inflammatory comment removed
Sean

*.........................*.... oh, why bother. If all you're going to do is insult me and evade my direct questions, then I really couldn't give a rats behind replying to you. :)

Nemesis
21-07-2004, 13:49
[MOD MODE ON]
[SCOUSER MODE ON]

CALM DOWN!!! CALM DOWN!!!

[SCOUSER MODE OFF]
[MOD MODE OFF]

Maggy J
21-07-2004, 13:51
"Sorry your phoneline's dead - why not use your mobile instead?"

So?If you have an alternative you are not high and dry.Even if you don't own a mobile I bet you know someone who does.

"Digital telly not too great? Go off to sky then!"

Well it's a choice?More than anyone had 25 years ago. :)

Incog.

orangebird
21-07-2004, 13:51
[MOD MODE ON]
[SCOUSER MODE ON]

CALM DOWN!!! CALM DOWN!!!

[SCOUSER MODE OFF]
[MOD MODE OFF]



Sorry Nem xx

seaneeboy
21-07-2004, 13:57
So?If you have an alternative you are not high and dry.Even if you don't own a mobile I bet you know someone who does.



Well it's a choice?More than anyone had 25 years ago. :)

Incog.

Yep - I do apologise for egtting a bit flippant, obviously this is more important to some than others.

The point I was trying to make, albeit in my own hamfisted way, was that you shouldn't HAVE to have a backup of an essential service like a phoneline.

seaneeboy
21-07-2004, 14:00
OB, I respect the way you help people on this site in your capacity as an NTL Employee, however find your way of putting across points somewhat abrupt. I apologise if you (or anyone else on the site) feel I was being rude or abusive towards you, but I hope you can understand that you do sometimes rub people up the wrong way and can bring out a defensive postition.

It's a shame it's got to this point, I hope these feelings don't run so high again.

Nemesis
21-07-2004, 14:00
Yep - I do apologise for egtting a bit flippant, obviously this is more important to some than others.

The point I was trying to make, albeit in my own hamfisted way, was that you shouldn't HAVE to have a backup of an essential service like a phoneline.
Agreed, but the offer ny BT to sidetrack your calls is NEW. Even with a broken down car not all garages offer a temp replacement, and what about Gas supply, Electricity, Washing machines, etc etc ...

What BT does os great, but is by no means the NORM ...

Nemesis
21-07-2004, 14:02
OB, I respect the way you help people on this site in your capacity as an NTL Employee, however find your way of putting across points somewhat abrupt. I apologise if you (or anyone else on the site) feel I was being rude or abusive towards you, but I hope you can understand that you do sometimes rub people up the wrong way and can bring out a defensive postition.

It's a shame it's got to this point, I hope these feelings don't run so high again.
Hey, it's all virtual ... :)

OB is very opinionated, I for one enjoy the frankness she brings to the site, and to me is a typical woman :D ....

I don't think any harm has been done .... now please play nicely :D

Maggy J
21-07-2004, 14:02
Yep - I do apologise for egtting a bit flippant, obviously this is more important to some than others.

The point I was trying to make, albeit in my own hamfisted way, was that you shouldn't HAVE to have a backup of an essential service like a phoneline.

So we will rip out all the phone boxes then?

We have always had to have some form of back up.I remember the days of BT(and BT only as there was no choice) when your phone didn't work you had to go to the nearest public phone box.No talk of compensation then or even of restitution.

Incog. :)

Stuart
21-07-2004, 14:16
I wasn't asking the 'VICTIM'... LMAO - You think he'd lost a limb in some terrible medical blunder... :rolleyes:
Agreed (and sorry for your loss BTW). A few years ago, one of my family had back pain, that was caused by a tumour (not malignant) that was repeatedly misdiagnosed by our GP. Put basically, he mis-read an x-ray, refused to refer this person for an MRI scan and diagnosed the tumour as (alternatly) bad/too good posture. One day, this person saw another doctor who immediately referred them to the local hospital, who did an MRI scan and found the tumour, then referred this person to the Royal National Orthopaedic Hospital. Now, this person survived (only just - when they got the op they needed, they were around 1 month from death), but will be affected for the rest of their lives. Anyway, I digress. We did start to fight for compensation. Not, as you have said, for the sake of the money (although it would be nice), but to get someone (preferably our now ex gp) to take responsibility for the mistake.

I can honestly say, I never imagined the NHS could clam up so tight. We have never got any compensation (although I do have it on good authority that our ex-gp had the costs of the treatment at RNOH - many thousands of pounds - cut from his budget), nor did we get an apology.

So, I do agree that loss of a phone line (unless you are disabled and housebound) is not that much of a problem.

As to your question about how much compensation: I think BT's offer is quite fair. Although I will stress that DTV and broadband are not what I would call essential services, so the compensation should be just the line rental for the phone.

Stuart
21-07-2004, 14:18
So we will rip out all the phone boxes then?


Actually, BT are doing a fairly good job of that round my area already. Well, taking out the phones (they actually leave a note where the phone was to the effect they have done this) then leaving the boxes to get vandalised..

ian@huth
21-07-2004, 14:21
Anyway to suggest these days that a landline is the ONLY form of telecommunication is a misnomer.We are in the age of the mobile and most households even those of the elderly have access to another source of communication.

I think that compensation should have been restitution of the loss of service for each day and the same amount again for the inconvenience.A months free service should come later if the problem isn't resolved.After this then the customer should be asking themselves if they want to stay anyway.

Incog.

What you have to remember is that the telephone is not just for idle chit chat and is a two way service. We have three mobiles in the house but could still experience problems and suffer financial loss if our NTL line was down. Consider the following incidents that have happened to us in recent months.

Our 4 year old grandson was injured in an accident at school. The school tried to call my daughter on her landline but she was out so they tried her mobile. They got no response because she was driving on the motorway so they called our landline which they had the number for. Fortunately we were in and answered, but if the line had been out of action?

We had a problem with our cooker and was told that an engineer would be with us on the Monday and he would call during the morning to tell us when he would be arriving. He did call and near to the time that he was due he phoned again to say that he couldn't find our street. It is a fairly new cul-de-sac off a side road and does not appear on street plans yet nor is likely to be known by anyone other than residents on the street. As our landline was working all went well and we were able to slip out for a couple of hours before he was due to arrive. If our line had been out of action though we would have had a problem.

There could be many reasons that people who do not have your mobile number want to call you on your landline and missing that call through a non functioning telephone line could cost you a lot of wasted time and money.

Stuart
21-07-2004, 14:24
Agreed, but the offer ny BT to sidetrack your calls is NEW. Even with a broken down car not all garages offer a temp replacement, and what about Gas supply, Electricity, Washing machines, etc etc ...

What BT does os great, but is by no means the NORM ...The thing is, it is not easy for a garage to offer you a temp car, they have to buy the cars which can cost a lot of money. With Gas and Electricity, it is also difficult (unless the Supplier lends you a generator for the electriciity, or camping gas appliances and a bottle for the gas). Call diversion is just a setting on the exchange, and should be relatively easy (and maybe cheap as well) for NTL to implement.

They are competing with BT after all, and one of the areas BT is competing on is Customer Service.

Edit: One other point. As pointed out by ianathuth above, a phone line can be considered an essential service (and indeed is by ofcom). Most people can (for a short period at least) do without Electricity or Gas. The only exception being for heating in Winter.

SMHarman
21-07-2004, 14:28
We are also forgetting that some services cannot be diverted from your landline, bit difficult to dialup (whats that) from a mobile, send a fax from one, and more importantly have your burgler alarm monitoring diverted via one. So the line being out can cause some people insurance worries (or internet withdrawal symptons) too.

arcamalpha2004
21-07-2004, 14:42
Nemmy's just hit upon the crux for me - the level of Customer support we get from NTL should be uniform and fair, not a lottery of how generous the operator is feeling.

:tu: :tu: :tu: very well said, I need say no more.

Neil
21-07-2004, 14:43
I think that people are forgetting that it was not what actually went wrong in the thread starter's situation, but how it was handled by ntl....

Stuart
21-07-2004, 14:49
I think that people are forgetting that it was not what actually went wrong in the thread starter's situation, but how it was handled by ntl....
Actually, I thought that was the point we were trying to make?

Neil
21-07-2004, 14:51
Actually, I thought that was the point we were trying to make?

It was/is, I was just trying to get away from the 'how much do you think he should get for his phone line being down for 3 days as phone lines aren't really that important these days as everyone has mobiles" kind of thinking. :)

arcamalpha2004
21-07-2004, 20:14
It was/is, I was just trying to get away from the 'how much do you think he should get for his phone line being down for 3 days as phone lines aren't really that important these days as everyone has mobiles" kind of thinking. :)

With respect Neil, not everyone has a mobile phone, yes a good majority of people do, but does that mean that the fact that somebody's line was down is not an issue.
I read more and more about phoneline problems that NTL customers suffer on here, the issue is where problems are recurring on a regular basis, the question has to be asked whether NTL are fit to run a telecommunication business.
I do not expect not to have a problem, but when it happens I would hope it is a rarety, and without asking I would be properly compensated, people may ask by how much? I will put my head on the block and say £50.
Yes, it does seem an extreme amount to some to pay for a line that is down at the least a day or so, at the extreme longer.
But what this would do, if companies had to pay that amount of money out to customers, they may soon get their acts together.
How much money is invested in the quality of the wiring/systems used by NTL? at a guess I would say as little as they can get away with.
So if poor quality infrastructure is in place, what can people expect?

Neil
21-07-2004, 20:42
<Snip>

I think you've misunderstood me m8....

I wasn't saying that way my point of view, I was just trying to steer the thread 'mentality' away from that way of thinking, as that is where it was going. :angel:

I still think that ntl cocked it up and handled it badly, & that deserves compensation from ntl-if only to say "we acknowledge that we treated you (our customer) poorly.

The fact that they offered £1 sums up some people's attitude towards their (wage paying) customers to me.

In other words, they still don't seem to give a fig IMO

arcamalpha2004
21-07-2004, 20:48
I think you've misunderstood me m8....

I wasn't saying that way my point of view, I was just trying to steer the thread 'mentality' away from that way of thinking, as that is where it was going. :angel:

I still think that ntl cocked it up and handled it badly, & that deserves compensation from ntl-if only to say "we acknowledge that we treated you (our customer) poorly.

The fact that they offered £1 sums up some people's attitude towards their (wage paying) customers to me.

In other words, they still don't seem to give a fig IMO



Neil, very sorry, jumping in with two feet on my behalf comes to mind, sorry.

Neil
21-07-2004, 21:47
Neil, very sorry, jumping in with two feet on my behalf comes to mind, sorry.

No worries at all m8, no offence taken whatsoever. :tu:

scrotnig
21-07-2004, 22:09
A lot of people are missing the point.

The service went down, and putting it right was botched.

The original poster should have been given more than a quid. That's a joke. I don't care if it works out at exactly the pro-rata of the monthly rate, that is NOT the point.

Most ntl staff do treat customers with respect and dignity, this is one case where that didn't happen.

Part of the company's 'turnaround' process, in getting back to an excellent level of service, has got to be getting out of this habit of never admitting we got it wrong and never saying sorry. Too often we go on the defensive all the time. This is wrong. It is less widespread than it was, but it does still happen, as it does in so many large companies.

One cannot allow the urine to be extracted obviously, but a little understanding and acceptance of a botch up wouldn't go amiss.

This is something I am always banging on about. And it's not always about money. Some customers really don't want money off. I even had one guy refuse it the other day. He just wanted the service to work...and as a customer myself, I know exactly where he's coming from.

Thankfully we got him fixed and I gave him the money off anyway...he can always argue about it when he gets the bill :D

I know the terms say the service is not guaranteed to be fault free. Do we really think a customer reporting a fault needs to have that flung in their face when they call up? No they don't!

Sorry to rant. This is a big one for me. Standards are everything, businesses grow faster that way.

Neil
21-07-2004, 22:33
A lot of people are missing the point.

The service went down, and putting it right was botched.

The original poster should have been given more than a quid. That's a joke. I don't care if it works out at exactly the pro-rata of the monthly rate, that is NOT the point.

Most ntl staff do treat customers with respect and dignity, this is one case where that didn't happen.

Part of the company's 'turnaround' process, in getting back to an excellent level of service, has got to be getting out of this habit of never admitting we got it wrong and never saying sorry. Too often we go on the defensive all the time. This is wrong. It is less widespread than it was, but it does still happen, as it does in so many large companies.

One cannot allow the urine to be extracted obviously, but a little understanding and acceptance of a botch up wouldn't go amiss.

This is something I am always banging on about. And it's not always about money. Some customers really don't want money off. I even had one guy refuse it the other day. He just wanted the service to work...and as a customer myself, I know exactly where he's coming from.

Thankfully we got him fixed and I gave him the money off anyway...he can always argue about it when he gets the bill :D

I know the terms say the service is not guaranteed to be fault free. Do we really think a customer reporting a fault needs to have that flung in their face when they call up? No they don't!

Sorry to rant. This is a big one for me. Standards are everything, businesses grow faster that way.

I couldn't have put it better myself Mark. :tu: :clap:

homealone
21-07-2004, 22:38
A lot of people are missing the point.

The service went down, and putting it right was botched.

The original poster should have been given more than a quid. That's a joke. I don't care if it works out at exactly the pro-rata of the monthly rate, that is NOT the point.

Most ntl staff do treat customers with respect and dignity, this is one case where that didn't happen.

Part of the company's 'turnaround' process, in getting back to an excellent level of service, has got to be getting out of this habit of never admitting we got it wrong and never saying sorry. Too often we go on the defensive all the time. This is wrong. It is less widespread than it was, but it does still happen, as it does in so many large companies.

One cannot allow the urine to be extracted obviously, but a little understanding and acceptance of a botch up wouldn't go amiss.

This is something I am always banging on about. And it's not always about money. Some customers really don't want money off. I even had one guy refuse it the other day. He just wanted the service to work...and as a customer myself, I know exactly where he's coming from.

Thankfully we got him fixed and I gave him the money off anyway...he can always argue about it when he gets the bill :D

I know the terms say the service is not guaranteed to be fault free. Do we really think a customer reporting a fault needs to have that flung in their face when they call up? No they don't!

Sorry to rant. This is a big one for me. Standards are everything, businesses grow faster that way.

and they failed to re-deploy you, why? :(

if the 'role play' was the problem, then the test is wrong, you are evidently 'customer focused' :)

It makes me :mad: when a good employee is binned because they do not fit into a 'KPI style' structure - who should say what the 'key' factor is, in the relationship with the customer - certainly not Marketing, for a start. ;)

- oh, & it's up to you, but I will miss you, if you decide to stop posting here :monkey:

Stuart
21-07-2004, 22:44
A lot of people are missing the point.

The service went down, and putting it right was botched.

The original poster should have been given more than a quid. That's a joke. I don't care if it works out at exactly the pro-rata of the monthly rate, that is NOT the point.

Most ntl staff do treat customers with respect and dignity, this is one case where that didn't happen.

Part of the company's 'turnaround' process, in getting back to an excellent level of service, has got to be getting out of this habit of never admitting we got it wrong and never saying sorry. Too often we go on the defensive all the time. This is wrong. It is less widespread than it was, but it does still happen, as it does in so many large companies.

One cannot allow the urine to be extracted obviously, but a little understanding and acceptance of a botch up wouldn't go amiss.

This is something I am always banging on about. And it's not always about money. Some customers really don't want money off. I even had one guy refuse it the other day. He just wanted the service to work...and as a customer myself, I know exactly where he's coming from.

Thankfully we got him fixed and I gave him the money off anyway...he can always argue about it when he gets the bill :D

I know the terms say the service is not guaranteed to be fault free. Do we really think a customer reporting a fault needs to have that flung in their face when they call up? No they don't!

Sorry to rant. This is a big one for me. Standards are everything, businesses grow faster that way.
Well put!

Neil
21-07-2004, 22:45
and they failed to re-deploy you, why? :(

Becasue Mark is not what ntl want (customer focused)

if the 'role play' was the problem, then the test is wrong, you are evidently 'customer focused' :)

He is, we know him of old. ;)

It makes me :mad: when a good employee is binned because they do not fit into a 'KPI style' structure - who should say what the 'key' factor is, in the relationship with the customer - certainly not Marketing, for a start. ;)

Since when have ntl & logic gone hand in hand-their attitude as described by Mark above, is no different to when I 1st got their services, & when Frank 1st started .com some 4 years ago. Now I'm sorry, but if you can't change that cancerous attitude to customers int hat amount of time-you ain't never gonna....:nono:

- oh, & it's up to you, but I will miss you, if you decide to stop posting here :monkey:

A lot of people will miss Mark's help if he goes-he know that we don't want to lose him, come what may.

scrotnig
21-07-2004, 22:53
I believe the company really do want to put the problem right. As time has gone by, there are more and more managers and team leaders coming into the business, including my own, who have high standards of service as their top priority, because that's where the business will grow now. And although I'm a victim of it, I *do* now believe that the company is right to want to reduce the number of call centres. It really is hell on earth sometimes trying to get a customer through to the right person, and even when you do the systems and processes are not consistent.

A shame about the redundancies, but from an unbiased point of view something had to be done. My department prides itself on high standards, but we only serve a tiny part of ntl. Other regions may have different rules and processes. Standardising all those is nigh on impossible.

I'll be sad to go. I truly wanted to be part of harmony and the changes and improvements. I wanted to be able to stand at the other end of all this when things are pretty much ok and say "I came through that. I was part of that. I did my bit to help fix it". But I won't be able to. Never mind, some you win, etc. I don't believe there is any conspiracy to not employ me...I just can't do the roleplays, and it's got to be the same rules for everyone. They can't make an exception for me because I'm crap at it.

mattf
23-07-2004, 15:01
Quick update - interesting discussion. Having had a read through and calmed down a bit I realised it wasn't really about getting compensation - it was about acknowledgement and ownership of the problem. I wrote an email to Mr Hussain in the end putting my case as briefly as I could. I have an acknowledgement of the complaint.

Sadly, my phone service then died again on Thursday evening - eta is now Monday for a fix. I've posted a log (http://www.furthermore.org.uk/archives/000151.html) of my contacts with NTL so far (no full names used) and the text (http://www.furthermore.org.uk/archives/000152.html) of my letter to them.

Anyone any other thoughts? Or should I just quit now - I don't want to as it will mean either unbundling the cable and wrangling over how to cost it, or just dumping it altogether (and once you've had CBeebies, you can't go back).

Neil
23-07-2004, 15:07
Quick update - interesting discussion. Having had a read through and calmed down a bit I realised it wasn't really about getting compensation - it was about acknowledgement and ownership of the problem. I wrote an email to Mr Hussain in the end putting my case as briefly as I could. I have an acknowledgement of the complaint.

Sadly, my phone service then died again on Thursday evening - eta is now Monday for a fix. I've posted a log (http://www.furthermore.org.uk/archives/000151.html) of my contacts with NTL so far (no full names used) and the text (http://www.furthermore.org.uk/archives/000152.html) of my letter to them.

Anyone any other thoughts? Or should I just quit now - I don't want to as it will mean either unbundling the cable and wrangling over how to cost it, or just dumping it altogether (and once you've had CBeebies, you can't go back).

I don't really think you need our opinion on what to do (by that-I think you already know what the best course of action is)

Any company that treats it's customers the way you have been treated (remember you are still without a phone line)-does not deserve a penny of anyone's hard earned cash IMO.

orangebird
23-07-2004, 15:19
Quick update - interesting discussion. Having had a read through and calmed down a bit I realised it wasn't really about getting compensation - it was about acknowledgement and ownership of the problem. I wrote an email to Mr Hussain in the end putting my case as briefly as I could. I have an acknowledgement of the complaint.

Sadly, my phone service then died again on Thursday evening - eta is now Monday for a fix. I've posted a log (http://www.furthermore.org.uk/archives/000151.html) of my contacts with NTL so far (no full names used) and the text (http://www.furthermore.org.uk/archives/000152.html) of my letter to them.

Anyone any other thoughts? Or should I just quit now - I don't want to as it will mean either unbundling the cable and wrangling over how to cost it, or just dumping it altogether (and once you've had CBeebies, you can't go back).

I can give you Mr Hssuains direct dial (and that of his PA's too) if that's any use to you?

mattf
23-07-2004, 15:23
I can give you Mr Hssuains direct dial (and that of his PA's too) if that's any use to you?
Ok - thanks.

Neil
23-07-2004, 15:28
FYI-We have a list of all relevant contact details here. (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/kb/19/who-are-the-people-in-charge-of-ntlhome)

HTH.

orangebird
23-07-2004, 15:58
FYI-We have a list of all relevant contact details here. (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/kb/19/who-are-the-people-in-charge-of-ntlhome)

HTH.

Neil, that's a bit out of date now - I'll send you an update next week.

Neil
23-07-2004, 16:19
Neil, that's a bit out of date now - I'll send you an update next week.

Thank you. :)

bean999
05-11-2004, 12:18
erm this is a bit of an old thread but i've been linked here by some guy's personal webpage as i was looking for info on compensation re ntl tel disconnect. Just wanted to say I'm glad to see all this discussion about it as it'll save me the aggro of bothering ntl about the compensation i'll only end up being disappointed by.


Had my phone mysteriously cut off 2 weeks ago; tried to call ntl on the saturday (not a good day to try to do that i discovered), got through on the monday to be told it would be another week and a half before an engineer could get to me. I'm not in the outer hebrides btw; i'm in cambridge - seemed a long time to wait. anyway that's 2 weeks without a phone - i don't have a mobile - it's been a real inconvenience. And for which i gather from posts here i may receive about 4 quid. Great!

Perhaps that's all i deserve tho. Few years ago had a similar problem with my old BT line, which took a month to sort out. Received 900 pounds @ about 30 pd ! I was a bit embarassed at the time but actually now i'm just grateful; it makes up for ntl being so backward with their customer service thinking.

cheers

bean999
05-11-2004, 12:44
On the issue of compensation btw just a small point of disagreement with one or two posters.


Not only have you lost the service you've paid for when something goes wrong and so should be 'refunded' - you've also lost the chance to be with another telco during that time, by choosing ntl in the first place. So really as it's a competitive marketplace ntl should justify your custom with them by compensating you over and above simply refunding. Real problem i suppose is not that they don't care, they just can't afford it.