View Full Version : monitoring what you do...
atomiser
26-05-2004, 21:12
someone i was talkin to the other day said that ntl are monitoring what people are up to on the 'net and reporting people who are downloading copyright material. with my 'sensible' hat on, no people shouldnt download copyright material from the net...musicians etc work v.v hard etc etc etc...record companies do charge too much for cd's though! :P
they are apparently supposed to be passing on names and addresses of customers to the appropriate authorities.
i know there has been a lot in the press about isp's carrying out these sorts of practices. is there any truth in it?
and are they allowed to 'shop' their customers? isnt our personal information supposed to be confidential under our rather (admittedly!) weak 'data protection act' or something?
i mean, has anyone ever been prosecuted for recording a film of the tv?
i can totally understand someone being prosecuted if they are downloading music and redistributing it for money...but how can they justify the cost in tracking down and prosecting individuals who have downloaded for their personal use!
what are ntl really up to?!
I seriously doubt NTL have the manpower or will to monitor what you download from the web - and if it's not on port 80 you would bypass their logs anyway.
As I understood it, there are various "snoopers" active on P2P networks, and they report IP adresses with uploads available.
The resulting nastygram is then passed on to you by your ISP.
Most P2P networks will often have you sharing what you download, or else push you way down the pecking order for "leeching".
Unless they were actually legally obliged to, I can't see NTL putting precious resources into pre-emptively hunting down violators themselves.
atomiser
26-05-2004, 21:35
I suppose another way of looking at it might be...would they really want to lose any of their 'valuable' customers?!?
They cant really afford to spend any more money can they?! Just as they cant really afford to lose any income either! :P
Cheers.
ian@huth
26-05-2004, 21:38
I suppose another way of looking at it might be...would they really want to lose any of their 'valuable' customers?!?
They cant really afford to spend any more money can they?! Just as they cant really afford to lose any income either! :P
Cheers.
They might want to lose the odd customer who tries to download / upload the entire internet on their connection.
atomiser
26-05-2004, 21:55
yeah true enough i guess!
i dont think its right for people to leave stuff queued up all day...but then, to be fair, you are paying £30 a month or whatever for an 'always-on' connection...
i dont believe (correct me if i am wrong) that there is a time limit on the 'always-on' portion of the t's&c's so why shouldnt you have your connection maxed out all the time!
back to the original topic...yet another thought...take mp3's for example...i dont see downloading an mp3 from a 'stranger' any different from copying a track from a mates cd...
the internet is merely a medium of, ahem, 'friends'! :D
Richard M
26-05-2004, 22:29
You've got the story slightly wrong there.
What happens is:
The record companies or associations (RIAA, MPAA for movies etc) hire people to scan the P2P networks looking for copyrighted files being shared.
If they find someone sharing these files then they make a note of the name of the track, format, size, date/time and the IP address.
They contact the ISP the IP belongs to and request that the user cease sharing the files immediately*
The ISP will then send a letter to the user requesting that they stop sharing copyrighted content.
If the user continues then they get disconnected.
* Although some just take them to court or threaten the ISP to release the identity of the user with court action.
AdeRickus
26-05-2004, 22:40
Useful Program if your are using P2P
http://www.methlabs.org/PeerGuardian_v1.99_pr14.zip
This program blocks any recognized IP address of any RIAA type organisation via their static IP range ( not individual static IP ).
I have been told ( of course never needed to use it myself :angel: ) it is very good ;)
TheBlueRaja
26-05-2004, 22:54
You've got the story slightly wrong there.
What happens is:
The record companies or associations (RIAA, MPAA for movies etc) hire people to scan the P2P networks looking for copyrighted files being shared.
If they find someone sharing these files then they make a note of the name of the track, format, size, date/time and the IP address.
They contact the ISP the IP belongs to and request that the user cease sharing the files immediately*
The ISP will then send a letter to the user requesting that they stop sharing copyrighted content.
If the user continues then they get disconnected.
* Although some just take them to court or threaten the ISP to release the identity of the user with court action.
Juzus H - i bet thats a hard job, looks like given the numbers out there, your have about as much chance of being nabbed as you have winning the lottery.
Scarlett
27-05-2004, 08:10
As far as I'm aware, they are only really going after the persistant offenders, if your sharing the odd file, then you less likely to be targted but if your IP pops up several times a day then you might well get the offical letter (or the court action from the Nice American organisations trying to sue you for breaching their state sponsered (and endorsed) monopoly.)
andygrif
27-05-2004, 09:53
I am not sure if it is the case yet, but the new privacy [sic] laws in the country will require ISPs to maintain information about all online transactions (by that I mean emails, instant messengings, sites visited, etc) for a period of (Ithink it was) 12 months.
I seem to remember that most ISPs were not happy with this burden - so I don't recall whether it has come into play or not yet.
wouldnat that break the Data protection act.
and Imaging kepping logs of 1 Million + people . would run into 100'g of GB's per Day.
Juzus H - i bet thats a hard job, looks like given the numbers out there, your have about as much chance of being nabbed as you have winning the lottery.
ahem...
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=12895
:Yikes:
wouldnat that break the Data protection act.
and Imaging kepping logs of 1 Million + people . would run into 100'g of GB's per Day.
To hold the data is not in breach of the DPA, however to release it without your consent to a third party is...
Unfortunately, to release this data to the government and the police is perfectly ok.
IIRC the main reason for this was to aid in investigations into terrorists/paedophiles/other criminals that were conducting their operations over the internet.
It was quite common to identify a person conducting illegal activity, but not to have enough hard evidence, as they cleaned down their computers to well.
If the data was logged by the ISP, they would not have the ability to clean up their trail.
There was a huge uproar from the Privacy groups, and from the ISPs about the practicality of this - however the last I heard on the rumour mill was that they can instruct an ISP to begin logging a specific user, providing a court order has been issued (basically like telling a bank to record all transactions on an account where fraud is suspected).
ahem...
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=12895
:Yikes:
Ahem ... you might want to check the WHOLE thread :D :rofl:
Ahem ... you might want to check the WHOLE thread :D :rofl:
Yeeee .... eeesssss .... I posted in here before Jim delivered his punchline. Thought about deleting my post, but then decided I might as well leave it.
/mouse still hovering over the 'rep' button :D
Folks I've seen this with my own eyes. A well known US entertainment company sent a 'Takedown Notice' to my friends ISP (no names) using his IP address. They listed times and URL he used. His ISP forwarded it on to him reminding him of the consequences of downloading copyright material and he should stop now. He didn't even know what it was at first (I'd hardly call him a repeat offender) so he showed it to me. His ISP never said if they were providing his details or if they were asked for.
To hold the data is not in breach of the DPA, however to release it without your consent to a third party is...
Plus, I believe, that if they released the information to the MPAA or the RIAA that they would be in breach of further rules concerning the transfer of information abroad.
Plus, I believe, that if they released the information to the MPAA or the RIAA that they would be in breach of further rules concerning the transfer of information abroad.
If the computers they transferred to are outside the European Union, then there would be a problem.
Having said that, I don't think the MPAA or the RIAA would be able to act in this country. The Federation Against Copyright Theft (FACT) would. All the RIAA or MPAA would have to do is pass their findings on to FACT...
Hi,
Been reading the posts with interest, & as I've had some dealings with the DPA.....
Personal information cannot be released without your consent, the only exception is serious crime issues, and even then, the police etc need a court order, if the material is held by a private organisation. Govt agencies have diff. criteria, but a strong justification needs to be made to release the info.
Any requests from agencies outside the UK are obviously outside of UK law (that includes the EU) and have no legal basis. Serious crime issues would have to be passed onto UK authorities, who would then follow the procedure outlined above if they felt justified in doing so - in all cases UK law applies.
Whether your ISP can keep records of your e-mails etc, I'm not sure about - maybe somebody else has more info.
Phew!!! such a long post for my first time!http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/images/icons/icon11.gif
I've just re read the take down notice that was sent from the 'well known US entertainment co.' - The letter does talk a lot about legal stuff but their legal basis is probably up for debate. I think on this occasion, my friend can only be guilty of breaching his ISPs Acceptable Use Policy.
My current question now is more about how they operate.
Say I have a mpeg file named 'the day after tomorrow' and it's a home video of, lets say the morning after a large birthday party. I share that file out. Are they going to come after me?
Are they likely to even look at the contents of the file? I think not - they wouldn't have the time for it. So you're guilty until you can prove otherwise - and for american justice thats the norm.
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