View Full Version : Off Net Associate Offers ?
The Milkman
22-07-2003, 10:11
P*** take large time me thinks.
Fellow associates can get some great deals, unfortunatley (or not), due to the responses I sometimes get, I dont not live in a serviceable area.
Does anyone know of any off net deals available for Associates?
Im out in the field all day so the intranet is not really an option, and customer services/HR seem a little pre occupied.
Cheers Guys
ummm....i think you only get something lame like 1/2 price freedom :erm:
The Milkman
22-07-2003, 10:26
Fantastic stuff eh, so my peers get the whole shhoting match TV wise for around £10 per month and 1M BB for £17.
Sounds about right.
Must remember to smile when on the doorstep then and getting grief about previous (HA) customer care :)
I seem to remember being told they did away with the original off-net deal shortly after I left ntl.
I used to use Sky when I was a Headend tech to look at channels when CS would phone me up, it was usefull to see if the problem was at source.
I seem to remember being told that one Headend tech was told he had to have Sky installed for this very reason!
I don't know if there is a new deal for off-net employees, I heard they were going to re-introduce it. Although it may be like the bonus the field guys were promised last year:rolleyes:
alan.ralskey
22-07-2003, 11:02
AFAIK the off net deal was supposed to be the £15 freedom jobby that customers get but for £9.99 but then they were messing around with the prices and the last I heard was that it was going to be the same price as for custs.
Mind you we are going back a number of months now to when freedom was first launched because I fell out with my internal source and we have not spoken at all since.
orangebird
22-07-2003, 12:32
Originally posted by alan.ralskey
AFAIK the off net deal was supposed to be the £15 freedom jobby that customers get but for £9.99 but then they were messing around with the prices and the last I heard was that it was going to be the same price as for custs.
Mind you we are going back a number of months now to when freedom was first launched because I fell out with my internal source and we have not spoken at all since.
ntl freedom is the only offnet deal - I have it & pay £9.99 a month (which includes unlimited dial up & £15 worh of calls a month).
ntl did, many moons ago, provide you with sky if you lived in a non cabled area. This has been withdrawn, but I can't say I blame them. These are all perks of the job, not rights, and ntl had better things to spend their money on. There are still loads of other benefits ntl offer - I can't say they're the best employers ever, but I do believe you'd be hard pressed to find another company to match, let alone better their benefits. :)
th'engineer
22-07-2003, 15:00
To increase the profitability of NTL would it not be possible for associates to pay the same charges as normal members of the public .
This way we all keep the company profitable and make it grow.
I am not sure how many people take the associate deal but it just seems to be a good idea if we are all on a level playing field associates and members of the public.
It would bring more revenue into the company and allow for expansion in the network.
This would then reduce cost to everyone associates included.
Originally posted by th'engineer
To increase the profitability of NTL would it not be possible for associates to pay the same charges as normal members of the public .
This way we all keep the company profitable and make it grow.
I am not sure how many people take the associate deal but it just seems to be a good idea if we are all on a level playing field associates and members of the public.
It would bring more revenue into the company and allow for expansion in the network.
This would then reduce cost to everyone associates included.
In that case, why do ANY employers offer 'perks' of the company?
mcdonalds offer cheaper meals, BA offer cheaper flights etc etc.
Think of it as a way of improving the morale of ntl staff, and so helping them to provide a slightly better service to you the customer?
This would then reduce cost to everyone associates included
umm, i somehow doubt that cost reduction will be on the same scale as the associate package? ;)
ntlrebel
22-07-2003, 15:19
Maybe he works in the sex trade........:D
th'engineer
22-07-2003, 15:47
I really must disagree with you that all employees get discounts on services.
I do not get any discounts in any way.
I presume it depends on what your employer actually provides but not every employer provides discounts.
Would shares in NTL not be a better way to encourage associates to perform better as opposed to free services?
After all shares would be linked to the profitability of the company.
As opposed to discounted offers of the services, or free tea and coffee.
It just seems to be a bit of a waste of money from NTL.
As a stakeholder in the business being a customer would really like my charges to fall, which would be possible if all paid the same.
Perhaps it is something that needs to be considered another option could be a larger install price for associates for example £200 that would show NTL commitment for the company.
th'engineer saidWould shares in NTL not be a better way to encourage associates to perform better as opposed to free services? :D :D :D :D
They allready tried that one!
I got shot of mine when they were $93 ish, the greedy ones held onto them because they believed Barclay when he said they would top $300;)
Originally posted by th'engineer
I really must disagree with you that all employees get discounts on services.
I do not get any discounts in any way.
So are you saying that just because you don't get a company discount that others shouldn't either?
th'engineer
22-07-2003, 16:02
Originally posted by Russ D
So are you saying that just because you don't get a company discount that others shouldn't either?
Its a good idea would you not agree we get bonus and shares
th'engineer
22-07-2003, 16:10
another thought is how are tax paid on these discounts its a payment in kind so should be taxable. Do associates that take the offer have to pay more tax . I would hope they declare it on there Tax return.
If you get a bonus its taxed shares are also taxed
Originally posted by th'engineer
Perhaps it is something that needs to be considered another option could be a larger install price for associates for example £200 that would show NTL commitment for the company.
:eek: :shrug: :confused:
you cant be serious?? you want people to get PENALISED for working for a company??
i'm under the impression that discounts are offered to staff as a retention scheme ie, as an incentive to stay there and not, as you seem to be suggesting, to test their dedication to the company!
I'm sorry, working for ntl is a job, and not a way of life. the moment i get active descrimination for being there, ill be out the door....
It is more valuable to ntl to give its staff perks. They are only a very small proportion of the subscriber base after all. Perks are a cheap way to increase benefits to staff without giving pay rises, which are tremendously expensive.
We get cheap meals and stays at the hotel company I work for (which, believe me, is very well worth having, even though I only use it once or twice a year!)
th'engineer
22-07-2003, 16:27
It would be a lot fairer a bonus scheme, as previously suggested.
Then employees who do not get the service would have equal benefits.
orangebird
22-07-2003, 16:34
Originally posted by th'engineer
It would be a lot fairer a bonus scheme, as previously suggested.
Then employees who do not get the service would have equal benefits.
We do get a bonus - but only if we meet preset targets.
We also pay the tax value on the benefits ntl pay for us to have such as private healthcare. But as for the tv services etc, no, we don't pay tax, as ntl do not have to pay for them for us (if you see what I mean).
One last thing - we don't get free tea and coffee anymore either.
:cry:
edit - why are you so against the perks th'eng? Staff retention is one of the most important aspects for any company - high turnover of staff leads to less knowledge, more expense on training & induction etc etc etc...not a good thing. Wouldn't you rather when you had to speak to CS, you were speaking to someone who'd been working at ntl for a while, had a good level of knowledge, knew how to fix things first time etc? That only comes from experience - which comes from years of practice. :)
th'engineer
22-07-2003, 16:40
What about people who do not take up the scheme should they not get something instead of it .
Perhaps discounted mobiles or BT
Originally posted by th'engineer
What about people who do not take up the scheme should they not get something instead of it .
Perhaps discounted mobiles or BT
i do have to concede that it is very unfair that off net collegues get naff all, and ntl should really sort something out for them :erm:
th'engineer
22-07-2003, 16:49
Originally posted by Mark W
i do have to concede that it is very unfair that off net collegues get naff all, and ntl should really sort something out for them :erm:
Why they get Bonus scheme, health care, would think its easier if other employees paid full price as previously suggested;)
orangebird
22-07-2003, 16:51
Originally posted by Mark W
i do have to concede that it is very unfair that off net collegues get naff all, and ntl should really sort something out for them :erm:
Not really - after all, it is just another perk.
ntl also give childcare vouchers as part of the perks.
Many associates have no children, but funnily enough, they don't want compensating for that.... :rolleyes:
Originally posted by th'engineer
Why they get Bonus scheme, health care, would think its easier if other employees paid full price as previously suggested;)
The schemes you mention are not at all comparable with the freebies we're talking about here.
Bonus, health insurance, company car ... all these things are treated as 'pay' for tax purposes, either because they are pay (in the case of a bonus) or ntl has had to pay for them in order to give them to staff for 'free'.
Perks related to the business or trade of the company, that don't cost the company to give away, are not 'pay', or treated as such. They are take-it-or-leave it perks designed, as Orangebird says, to make life at ntl more comfortable. It makes the pay and conditions at ntl better without costing ntl anything significant.
Where I work, we get very cheap hotel nights, booking a room for £15 per person. That room would have been empty if I had not stayed so the company actually makes money out of me. But we don't get up in arms and demand that no-one else gets a free night if I phone the staff booking line and find the hotel I want to stay at is booked up.
The point is, these things are take-it-or-leave-it, great if you can get it, pity if you can't. They are not part of your contract so you have no right to them - unlike a bonus or insurance.
Perks are very, very common in business, even if it's only taking home all the stationery you can carry every once in a while. I don't understand the problem.
Originally posted by orangebird
Not really - after all, it is just another perk.
ntl also give childcare vouchers as part of the perks.
Many associates have no children, but funnily enough, they don't want compensating for that.... :rolleyes:
no, that's very different. childcare vouchers are only any good/wanted by those that have kids. you go and ask an off net associate if he would like to have loads of tv channels for free and cheap bb, and see what they say ........
i dont see the problem with staff discounts on services that they have with NTL its more money in there pocket and improves morale
/me thinks its a bit of jealousy from my view
alan.ralskey
22-07-2003, 19:10
I would like to work for ntl and get the packages that they get as it works out at a very good deal.
Mr_Burns
22-07-2003, 20:10
Originally posted by orangebird
But as for the tv services etc, no, we don't pay tax, as ntl do not have to pay for them for us (if you see what I mean).
Yes we do get taxed on them (or at least me and my colleagues did). You get taxed on the 'benefit'. Not sure exactly how it works, but I've just got a P11d from Human Remains and it shows TV services as a taxable benefit :(
th'engineer
22-07-2003, 20:50
Originally posted by Mr_Burns
Yes we do get taxed on them (or at least me and my colleagues did). You get taxed on the 'benefit'. Not sure exactly how it works, but I've just got a P11d from Human Remains and it shows TV services as a taxable benefit :(
Therefore if you do not declare them you are in fact breaking the tax laws .
I wonder if NTL might have communicated this to their employees .
Or can we expect the same communication as usual
ntlrebel
22-07-2003, 21:03
It has been communicated and that's why we have been issued with a P11d form.
Mr_Burns
22-07-2003, 21:03
I don't think you have to 'declare' them as such. I certainly never, this was all sorted by HR. In fact the first I knew of it was when I received the P11d
Ignition
22-07-2003, 21:05
Originally posted by th'engineer
Therefore if you do not declare them you are in fact breaking the tax laws .
I wonder if NTL might have communicated this to their employees .
Or can we expect the same communication as usual
We don't need to declare them, we don't all have to do self-assessment just because we receive perks, we have a payroll department to do this, and yes associates are informed that the benefits are taxable.
Right so I should pay £200 install fee to prove my commitment to my employer, along with giving up all the current perks?
Healthcare makes sense for the employer as well as employee, the better the healthcare we can receive the shorter our time off when ill and the less sick pay we take.
Hate to point this out to you but ntl is an American company with some American values, a decent perks package being one of them.
Why are you so willing to dig at ntl for not looking after its' staff, and so willing to dig at ntl AND its' staff in one shot? Believe it or not we work pretty hard for the pay and perks we receive, and it is a motivator, and for every experienced member of staff it keeps at the company you, the customer, benefit.
Apologies if you don't agree with this, maybe we should be paying you to maintain your network, support you, provide your services, just to prove our commitment?!? :spin:
handyman
22-07-2003, 21:06
I always thought the associate package was offered as a way of familiarisiing the staff with the product they are supporting. Our dept gets special download box's with all the channels on so that we can test and get used to how they work.
th'engineer
22-07-2003, 21:11
Apologies if you don't agree with this, maybe we should be paying you to maintain your network, support you, provide your services, just to prove our commitment?
And i thought they where the BOGOFF offers
Speaking as an offnet associate (of admittedly four weeks standing) I was pleasantly surprised what was included. Having a kid on the way, the childcare vouchers and healthcare were handy, as was the car allowance (easier to get to hospitals than on the bus). Can't say I'm too bothered about not getting ntl services at home, I've got Telewest digital and ADSL and am quite happy paying full whack for both, it's not really that much.
And yes, eng, I am fully clued up on the need to fork out to Mr. Brown when tax time comes.
JustAnotherN00b saidwe have a payroll department to do this,
I had trouble being over taxed for a perk when I was working for ntl, as was I think everyone else in the department.
I dealt with the tax office myself, when I said ntl they said Oh No!
It was just a case of the ntl people not knowing the rules and taxing us for things that we shouldn't of been taxed for. The payroll people insisted they were right and the tax office said they were wrong.:)
I also had trouble with my pension because of the ntl payroll department, the pension company kept writing to them and they would not reply. I ended up losing a few months pension contributions, this was another result of the constantly moving departments at the time.
As soon as a department starts to get it together in ntl, they are all made redundant jobs moved to another area and the sh*t starts all over again
:rolleyes:
orangebird
22-07-2003, 22:24
Originally posted by Mark W
no, that's very different. childcare vouchers are only any good/wanted by those that have kids. you go and ask an off net associate if he would like to have loads of tv channels for free and cheap bb, and see what they say ........
I am offnet (have been for 4 of the 5 years I've been at ntl) and I don't have any children - I still don't have the arse about not having an offnet tv deal - big deal??? No - It's only one of the many perks that are available to me. :)
Originally posted by kronas
i dont see the problem with staff discounts on services that they have with NTL its more money in there pocket and improves morale
/me thinks its a bit of jealousy from my view
Nail - head, kronas ;)
Originally posted by th'eng
another thought is how are tax paid on these discounts its a payment in kind so should be taxable. Do associates that take the offer have to pay more tax . I would hope they declare it on there Tax return.
If you get a bonus its taxed shares are also taxed
.
Yes (sucking eggs???...), and every year, I receive a form from payroll telling me exactly me how much tax I have paid, and for what 'perk' - it's always a damn site less than I would have to pay if I paid full whack for the service so I'm happy.... :)
Do I detect a little bit of envy th'eng?
th'engineer
22-07-2003, 22:50
As a customer with so many NTL employees sometimes you realise that people will not listen. Must remember to put this idea forward in my next e-mail with Aizad:D
orangebird
22-07-2003, 23:00
Originally posted by th'engineer
As a customer with so many NTL employees sometimes you realise that people will not listen. Must remember to put this idea forward in my next e-mail with Aizad:D
Pardon me, but what the f*ck has it got to do with you what perks/bonuses ntl employees receive???? As a customer, I couldn't give two hoots what SEB, Southern Water, Visa, Mastercard, Orange etc etc etc give their employees.
Run your own company with 13000 employees, then give your considered opinion. Otheriwse, give it a rest, you're incredibly boring nowadays. I'm suprised 'bill goodland', 'churn', or 'cap' didn't come out in your last post.... :rolleyes:
ummmm....:nono: play nice now boys and girls.
If you want to air 'frank' views about other members id strongly suggest the dulcit tones of a pm.... ;)
th'engineer
23-07-2003, 06:17
Originally posted by orangebird
Pardon me, but what the f*ck has it got to do with you what perks/bonuses ntl employees receive???? As a customer, I couldn't give two hoots what SEB, Southern Water, Visa, Mastercard, Orange etc etc etc give their employees.
Run your own company with 13000 employees, then give your considered opinion. Otheriwse, give it a rest, you're incredibly boring nowadays. I'm suprised 'bill goodland', 'churn', or 'cap' didn't come out in your last post.... :rolleyes:
I am only thinking of ideas to make the company more profitable, if you really where committed to NTL you would appreciate that customers are stakeholders in the business as much as assoiciates or even Aizad himself.
The employment world is changing and lots of companies are cutting down on employee perks as you call them.
This is to ensure that they are in the marketplace in the future they have to show all stakeholders commitment.
It is a way of stopping the boom and bust scenario in companies you know your outgoings and income.
Its just that customers have had an increase incost of services could some of this not be offset by reducing the perks such BB TV.
You mentioned the CAP orangebird so therefore in reply to that it is not related in this thread, but as said before will effect employment statistics in the future .
If the CAP disappeared do not think you would see many people complaning about NTL apart from people who work for it.:D
I for one would not be treading these boards, if communication improved with the customer that would cut down more problems. :D
It about customer perception
Still waiting for my E-mail from "MR GOODLAND" gave him the oppurtunity and no reply .
SMHarman
23-07-2003, 09:03
Originally posted by Mark W
:eek: :shrug: :confused:
you cant be serious?? you want people to get PENALISED for working for a company??
i'm under the impression that discounts are offered to staff as a retention scheme ie, as an incentive to stay there and not, as you seem to be suggesting, to test their dedication to the company!
I'm sorry, working for ntl is a job, and not a way of life. the moment i get active descrimination for being there, ill be out the door....
Better make sure that if you become an NTL ee you get the install done before you join, then get your account converted to an associate account!
It could never work
SMHarman
23-07-2003, 09:05
Originally posted by towny
It is more valuable to ntl to give its staff perks. They are only a very small proportion of the subscriber base after all. Perks are a cheap way to increase benefits to staff without giving pay rises, which are tremendously expensive.
<snip>
It also means more associates end up using the products they are marketing / supporting / developing and as a result can explain better how it works / how to fix it / how to enhance it.
Originally posted by th'engineer
The employment world is changing and lots of companies are cutting down on employee perks as you call them.<snip>
The 'perks' that are being cut back on are huge expense accounts and champagne on tap. This was typical at City firms that previously were making a fortune but have fallen on hard times.
Free TV and phone lines are another matter. Aside from connection, the cost of supplying signals down an already-installed cable is absolutely negligible. Giving these perks to ntl staff costs the company peanuts. Yes they would make a bit more money if all the staff had to pay full price, but how many of them would take the service at all if it was full price?
I'd never pay £150 to stay in a hotel, no matter how loyal I was to my employer.
th'engineer
23-07-2003, 10:01
Can not understand this i pay for use of products that i have worked on .
If they are in the public domain.
Iwould also think that the money saved could be invested in better service to customers
SMHarman
23-07-2003, 11:54
OK so NTL has about 13,700 ees (page 34 2002 annual report)
Say each has
Family pack £10
Phone and Base £18
600k BB £25 (or Movies and 150k or other additonal services)
Total £53 / 2 therefore the perk is a hit on revenue of £26.50 / month £318 a year
Total £4.3M (of potential extra revenue)
Total £4.3M (of subsidies to ees)
Revenue for the year was $2074M (say £3318M)
1.3% of revenue.
But as others have said taking away this perk would probably result in pay increases, and then give staff no tie in to the product, many could switch to using sky / bt whilst being on net, losing the company revenue.
seems like a good idea to have this perk to me.
th'engineer
23-07-2003, 12:23
Total £4.3M (of potential extra revenue)
could be used to improve cabinet heat dissipation and fitment of temp sensors which would improve service:D
Originally posted by SMHarman
<snip>Revenue for the year was $2074M (say £3318M)
1.3% of revenue.
Revenue is not the same as profit. Does anyone know what ntl's actual profit was? Then we need to work out how much extra profit would have been generated from the extra revenue. I think you'll find it is, as I have been saying, peanuts.
Originally posted by th'engineer
Total £4.3M (of potential extra revenue)
could be used to improve cabinet heat dissipation and fitment of temp sensors which would improve service:D
yesss...but if you read his post again, you'll see that it WOULDNT be 4.3M extra in ntl pockets
SMHarman
23-07-2003, 12:29
It does not quite work like that. If 50% of those recieving the benefit drop it or switch to sky then the extra revenue will be 0.
Others will modify their services so they pay the same, instead of an increased bill, dropping movies and sports, reducing the speed of BB from 1Mb to 600K, dropping phone features. Same as you and I do.
If you took away the perk you would not see much extra revenue IMHO.
th'engineer
23-07-2003, 13:29
Others will modify their services so they pay the same, instead of an increased bill, dropping movies and sports, reducing the speed of BB from 1Mb to 600K, dropping phone features
Therefore less stress on the network, happier customers, better retention, and more profitability.
Then you could increase pay through bonus schemes because retention would be up .
Excellent idea
SMHarman
23-07-2003, 13:35
Originally posted by th'engineer
Therefore less stress on the network, happier customers, better retention, and more profitability.
Then you could increase pay through bonus schemes because retention would be up .
Excellent idea
An associate dropping sky movies does not lead to less stress on the network.
THis only applies to BB and I have no idea how many associates have 1Mb BB (or even how many customers have it).
Perhaps you should start attacking BA or Virgin. Their ees can make 7 trips a year for free and as many as they can manage for themselves and nominated imediate family for 10% of full fare.
Imagine that you and I pay £400 to get to NY in economy. They pay the same and do it in Business class in a flat bed.
They also get discounts at hotels when they are there. Those are worthwhile and valuable perks.
Ignition
23-07-2003, 14:40
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this thread originally about Off Net offers, rather than a single user complaining because On-Net users get cheaper cable?
It's no-one but ntl and the staff's business what perks we get - none of yours eng, whatever you may think. Think it's fair to say no-one apart from yourself seems offended by the staff perks.
What next, drops in pay so that ntl have more to invest in the network? Then of course loads of fed up staff leave, and you end up with inexperienced people to look after the network, etc. and even with the greater CapEx it's still in the same situation. A company's greatest asset is its' staff - fact. Look after the staff they look after you.
This way of doing things seems to be working ok :)
th'engineer
23-07-2003, 15:07
Originally posted by Andre
Not quite-a company's greatest asset is it's customers, without those, there are no staff/employers to look after. ;)
You beat me on that one Andre quite agree with you, hence I must be one of NTls greatest assets.
Being a customer:D
Ignition
23-07-2003, 15:31
Originally posted by Andre
Not quite-a company's greatest asset is it's customers, without those, there are no staff/employers to look after. ;)
Hmm agreed, but not in the sense I was discussing. Fair enough though, absolutely true. I lubs customers they pay my wages :)
Ignition
23-07-2003, 15:31
Originally posted by th'engineer
You beat me on that one Andre quite agree with you, hence I must be one of NTls greatest assets.
Being a customer:D
Well I lubs nearly all customers :p
th'engineer
23-07-2003, 15:42
Originally posted by JustAnotherN00b
Well I lubs nearly all customers :p
Nearly all Customers, you should appreciate they are all stakeholders in the Business
JustAnotherN00b saidThen of course loads of fed up staff leave, and you end up with inexperienced people to look after the network A company's greatest asset is its' staff - fact. Look after the staff they look after you.
The only flaw (not a dig just using the opportunity) in that comment is the ones who have suffered the most through loss of perks and being treated the worst are not people sat in offices, they are indeed the people who are out their looking after the networks.
I think it would be a great time for ntl to conduct a survey amongst the network/service techs and see what result they get.
Although the annual surveys stopped when they were getting to many complaints before.
Better still offer them voluntary redundancy and see how many takers they get, in some areas they would be quite suprised:(
th'engineer
24-07-2003, 06:29
Its obvious everything in the NTL Garden is not rosy, i have heard this before from NTL service people.
It must be very hard to keep technical people even with the offers, recently saw a few techs jobs advertised.
So it seems even the freebies do not attract the right calibre of people
etccarmageddon
25-07-2003, 08:50
I think the idea of giving the company products at a discount is the theory that because you work for the company and have contributed in making the product, you should get it at 'cost' - ie. a rate that makes no profit for the company.
Also the logic is that when you purchase goods from the company, the company shouldnt be making a profit out of you.
It's also a 'perk' and a way of the company rewarding you for your loyalty in using the company's product by giving you discounted goods - it's cheap for the company and (if possible) stops you buying from a competitor.
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