Eurozone will collapse...

[Chrysalis]

no

I said the fact its both american and a private company and especially one that in my view has acted wrongfully in the past makes the change of ratings dodgy also with the warning france had a swell. Both of these events happened shortly after the uk using its veto.

So when I said if it was a eu agency would I agree with it been dodgy that would be under the basis of a eu agency gave greece a triple AAA rating, I would find that dodgy.

Given economically we are worse off than france I think the france finance minister was right on his comments, and the only reason I think we didnt get the same warning was our better relationship with america so in my eyes was political.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

no

I said the fact its both american and a private company and especially one that in my view has acted wrongfully in the past makes the change of ratings dodgy also with the warning france had a swell. Both of these events happened shortly after the uk using its veto.

So when I said if it was a eu agency would I agree with it been dodgy that would be under the basis of a eu agency gave greece a triple AAA rating, I would find that dodgy.

Given economically we are worse off than france I think the france finance minister was right on his comments, and the only reason I think we didnt get the same warning was our better relationship with america so in my eyes was political.

So it is about it being an American company again then?

You only added the bit about S&P's previous 'mistakes' in your second post after I'd posted the wikipedia link. Your OP only stated you were sceptical about an American private company.......'

So how does the UK's better political relationship with the US percolate through to S&P giving us a better rating than we deserve? Is that down to the company or the US Govt or both and how would it serve either to do that whilst downgrading the US rating which is far more important to both?

[Sirius]

There sooner it all collapses the better so we can start to rebuild .

[nomadking]

The ratings are not so such about any current financial situation, but about the prospects for any money to be paid back in the future. If a government can clearly show that they have at least the will to tackle any issues, then they will be rated more favourably. People striking or rioting (eg in Greece) because they don't like what is required, will not help any situation. That would also adversely affect any confidence to invest.

[Osem]

I found this an interesting read:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16305731

It is a feature of the year past how quickly old stereotypes have re-emerged, with cartoons and pictures in many different countries depicting Angela Merkel as a Prussian, as Bismarck or even Hitler.

Chancellor Merkel has called for "more Europe". While leaders accept this when sitting around a big table in Brussels they find it far harder to sell back home.

There is strong debate in some countries over seeing some sovereignty over tax and spending plans transferred to European officials. "Sovereignty" or "who governs France" may well become an issue in the forthcoming French elections.

[Osem]

.... and things are even getting tough in Switzerland where their 'safe bet' currency has risen sharply creating massive problems for exporters.

Outsider Switzerland feels Europe's pain

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16354048

[Osem]

This is an interesting, if worrying, read:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16412705

Greece, with its unelected leader, is marching to the EU/IMF tune. The Greek economy this year will contract by a further 3%, having shrunk 6% last year. Its retail sales are down 30%. A quarter of small businesses and shops are closing. There are large withdrawals of funds and much of the money is being moved out of the country.

Then there's resentment towards Germany:

Already there is resentment towards Germany for trying to shape other eurozone economies to its own economic model. There are signs that the currency that was supposed to further unite Europe is sowing new divisions.

and resentment within Germany:

Berlin increasingly has the feel of Europe's capital. For the moment the political class is committed to defending the euro. What is still unclear is what price Germany is prepared to pay to keep the eurozone together. Bild - its best-selling paper - had this headline last year: "They all want our money".

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Osem

This is an interesting, if worrying, read:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16412705





Then there's resentment towards Germany:



and resentment within Germany:

god knows what will happen in Europe this year!

Well, Tottenham are unlikely to be there....

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Well, Tottenham are unlikely to be there....

what do you mean?

[Ignitionnet]

This might be interesting, Daniel Hannan. I obviously agree, but I would love to see if anyone offers up any counter arguments?

[Osem]

Even by the recent standards of the eurozone, Friday 13 January has been a messy day.

What may turn out to be most important is that the Greek government moved nearer to a formal default on what it owes, as talks collapsed between the Greek premier, Lucas Papademos, and representatives of banks on a voluntary 50% reduction on what they are repaid.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16556860

Some of those 'rock solid' Eurozone banks are going to have to take a major 'haircut'*....

* http://financial-dictionary.thefreed...ry.com/Haircut

[ntluser]

The problem for the Eurozone is that you have economies of varying strengths trying to maintain the Euro.

The matter is made worse by the debts of some of the weaker economies and the fact that the stronger economies are having to bail them out.

It would be simpler if they recognized the fact that the Euro was dead and allowed all economies to return to their original currencies at a level they could easily support.

Countries like Greece are just going to have reduce their spending and learn to live within their means like everybody else.

Trying to maintain the Euro is likely to end up dragging down all the other economies and if that happens the Eurozone will not be salvageable.

[Osem]

If so, perhaps they could play them a tape of Harold Wilson explaining that their currencies are going to be devalued but that doesn't mean the money in their pockets will be worth less....

For anyone too young to remember:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIQnpoGBS1I

Originally Posted by Osem

If so, perhaps they could play them a tape of Harold Wilson explaining that their currencies are going to be devalued but that doesn't mean the money in their pockets will be worth less....

For anyone too young to remember:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIQnpoGBS1I

i cried when my pocket money couldn't buy a lucky bag anymore