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Old Yesterday, 13:10   #1606
Damien
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Osem View Post
That's apart from the thousands who do get through every year via places like Calais of course.
Yes, it's not air-tight. Still a lot better than having to deal with the problem in Dover though. We have a good arrangement here and one which is not popular with the French public. It seems that £44 million is a decent price to pay as well, clearly the government thinks so too. Remember that even with this additional payment this is a political cost to Macron, the best thing he can do for support back home is rip up the agreement and tell us to handle our own border. It would be stupid diplomatically of course. We've also committed to helping them with letting them use our helicopters in Africa.

It seems that even after Brexit there are some who just want nothing to do with Europe and to be as anagonstic as we can to the countries of Europe to the extent we'll rip up a beneficial arrangement just to stick it to the French. We're in trouble if even concessions made to us offend the public.

Last edited by Damien; Yesterday at 13:31.
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Old Yesterday, 13:41   #1607
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
They are on French soil but they're heading to British soil and the reason they don't is because we get to have the border at Calais and not Dover.
They are heading to British Soil but got in to France, our border does not cover the whole of France, so they traveled through it, illegally, it is still France's problem, not ours, they only managed to get to Calais because France has weak borders with the rest of it's European countries, why should we have to pay for France's weak borders issue ?
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Old Yesterday, 16:07   #1608
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by jonbxx View Post
It's an interesting political point where MPs are getting pulled in three directions now;
  • The referendum result
  • Their parties whip
  • Their constituents wishes

It really lays bare the question of who does an MP represent in Parliament? If you go fail to represent your constituents wishes, are you doing your job?

My local MP was a remain campaigner. I had a fun meeting with him and our somewhat robust Liberal Democrat leader of the local council before the vote. However, since the result, he toes the party line and is now Justice Secretary. Luckily for him, our local result matched the national one to within 1%...
Imo their constituents wishes trump everything, party loyalty, national vote or self interest

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
They are heading to British Soil but got in to France, our border does not cover the whole of France, so they traveled through it, illegally, it is still France's problem, not ours, they only managed to get to Calais because France has weak borders with the rest of it's European countries, why should we have to pay for France's weak borders issue ?
And when they remove controls in calais and usher them through they become our problem, people might call it blackmail but what's in the French national interest to keep these shanty towns going, the people there don't want to be in France they want to be in Britain so why don't they just let them through, be easier for everyone except us!
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Old Yesterday, 16:22   #1609
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
And when they remove controls in calais and usher them through they become our problem, people might call it blackmail but what's in the French national interest to keep these shanty towns going, the people there don't want to be in France they want to be in Britain so why don't they just let them through, be easier for everyone except us!
I was about to say the same thing. The Le Touquet agreement must be a massive pain for France, I do wonder what's in it for them. It must be tempting to say au revoir, don't slam the porte on the way out.

I was having a look at the cost of deportations. We reported to Eurostat an estimated cost of €407,000,000 to deport 46,610 illegal immigrants in 2014 which works out at as a cost of €8732 per person. Yikes! £44,000,000 extra looks like a bargain at this rate, though I don't know the total cost of running Le Touquet.

Data source - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...7h4/edit#gid=0
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Old Yesterday, 16:56   #1610
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by jonbxx View Post
I was about to say the same thing. The Le Touquet agreement must be a massive pain for France, I do wonder what's in it for them. It must be tempting to say au revoir, don't slam the porte on the way out.

I was having a look at the cost of deportations. We reported to Eurostat an estimated cost of €407,000,000 to deport 46,610 illegal immigrants in 2014 which works out at as a cost of €8732 per person. Yikes! £44,000,000 extra looks like a bargain at this rate, though I don't know the total cost of running Le Touquet.

Data source - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...7h4/edit#gid=0
Well, if the illegal immigrants got on a ferry or Eurostar, or a plane, the operators would have to return them at their own expense. It’s up to them to check that those travelling have the appropriate documentation.
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Old Yesterday, 18:37   #1611
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Well, if the illegal immigrants got on a ferry or Eurostar, or a plane, the operators would have to return them at their own expense. It’s up to them to check that those travelling have the appropriate documentation.
Mmmm, don't think a lot of them get a ticket/go via passport control...

France would be well within its rights to tell us to deal with it post Brexit. Hence us having to give them a massive cash sweetener. Working out a bit pricey this Brexit lark....

Last edited by Mr K; Yesterday at 18:43.
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Old Yesterday, 19:16   #1612
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
Mmmm, don't think a lot of them get a ticket/go via passport control...

France would be well within its rights to tell us to deal with it post Brexit. Hence us having to give them a massive cash sweetener. Working out a bit pricey this Brexit lark....
Well, that is the appropriate and legitimate means of travel. I don't think France is threatening to let these hordes of illegal immigrants run through the tunnels or force their way onto lorries! So their position should not change on that score.
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Old Yesterday, 20:50   #1613
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Well, that is the appropriate and legitimate means of travel. I don't think France is threatening to let these hordes of illegal immigrants run through the tunnels or force their way onto lorries! So their position should not change on that score.
Without a border in Calais they wouldn't need to force their way onto lorries so much. There would likely still be a French policing operation and checks from the transport companies but fewer than there currently is. The issue at Calais is because the border is there, that's where we check whose coming in. You move the border to Dover, you're moving a lot of the problems to Dover as well. It's also harder to kick someone out of the country than it is to stop them coming in.

£45 million is nothing in Government budgets. Manchester United are about to pay more than that so a football player can play for them for a few years instead of someone else.

I think it highlights how difficult a job Theresa May has with Brexit because there is a not insignificant contingent in his country who'll not countenance any compromise or concession to Europe no matter how beneficial it could be to us. At there mere suggestion it's beneficial to Europe as well they would rather we lose out in order spite them.
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Old Yesterday, 21:21   #1614
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
I think it highlights how difficult a job Theresa May has with Brexit because there is a not insignificant contingent in this country who'll not countenance any compromise or concession to Europe no matter how beneficial it could be to us. At there mere suggestion it's beneficial to Europe as well they would rather we lose out in order spite them.
They've been moaning since we joined the EEC and they'll be moaning about everything that's seen as a concession to Europe forever after. It's time for that contingent to raise their game and be grateful that we're leaving and can work together for mutual benefit in the future.
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