Superhub : Battle of the Hubs - The Prequel

[Andrewcrawford23]

netgear home range is pretty crap now a days but there business level stuff is still top notch i use netgear for nas and other things liek gigabit port switchs and have used when helpign develkop a netwokr lab used one of there fibre and gigabit port switches all top of the range but home stuff and it appears teh shub as crap

[Skie]

Heres my empirical evidence:

Superhub placed in the same location (attic) as a WRT54G and an Asus RT-N16. Not at the same time.

Living room signal (Measure from under a plasma TV):
SH = none
54G = good
N16 = weak

Garden (patio close to house):
SH = weak
54G = strong
N16 = good

Garden (140ft away from house)
SH = none
54G = good
N16 = weak

Bottom of street, after using Tomato to boost transmit power (450~ft from house measure on google maps):
SH = none
54G = weak
N16 = depends on weather. Pretty intermittent when it does work so going with none.

[Andrewcrawford23]

Originally Posted by Skie

Heres my empirical evidence:

Superhub placed in the same location (attic) as a WRT54G and an Asus RT-N16. Not at the same time.

Living room signal (Measure from under a plasma TV):
SH = none
54G = good
N16 = weak

Garden (patio close to house):
SH = weak
54G = strong
N16 = good

Garden (140ft away from house)
SH = none
54G = good
N16 = weak

Bottom of street, after using Tomato to boost transmit power (450~ft from house measure on google maps):
SH = none
54G = weak
N16 = depends on weather. Pretty intermittent when it does work so going with none.

that is fair test for signal strenghs and good comparsions for distance

---------- Post added at 15:55 ---------- Previous post was at 15:53 ----------

i should have stated i would want to do those tests ona shub that is working int eh form it doesnt keep rebooting or no wireless working at all etc, i mean for me doign tests not oyu skie

[Peter_]

Virgin Media is a business who see fit to supply a device that fits within their business model and works as it should for the vast majority of their customers, it must work otherwise it would have been withdrawn well before now.

They want a device that looks pretty with a Virgin Media name on the front and that is simple for the average customer to configure.

They could and should have gone with a known mainstream supplier but they decided not to or a nudge helped with that decision, that is something we will never know.

The is supposed to be a third version of the Superhub in at least the planning stages after the failure of the second Superhub in testing, this one may have external antenna if they feel it is aesthetically pleasing to the eye.

At least we now have Modem Mode to allow the use of your own wireless router if you feel that the wireless is not adequate for your requirements.

The is little point in looking wistfully at your VMNG300 as that will never make a return and realistically should never have been bought as they should as above gone with a mainstream manufacturer.

[Andrewcrawford23]

Originally Posted by Peter_

Virgin Media is a business who see fit to supply a device that fits within their business model and works as it should for the vast majority of their customers, it must work otherwise it would have been withdrawn well before now.

They want a device that looks pretty with a Virgin Media name on the front and that is simple for the average customer to configure.

They could and should have gone with a known mainstream supplier but they decided not to or a nudge helped with that decision, that is something we will never know.

The is supposed to be a third version of the Superhub in at least the planning stages after the failure of the second Superhub in testing, this one may have external antenna if they feel it is aesthetically pleasing to the eye.

At least we now have Modem Mode to allow the use of your own wireless router if you feel that the wireless is not adequate for your requirements.

The is little point in looking wistfully at your VMNG300 as that will never make a return and realistically should never have been bought as they should as above gone with a mainstream manufacturer.

peter i think i shoudl bang my head off a wall with you and nopanic

i know why they have done it, and i agree it isa good idea

the wirelss as shown above does nto work without having atennas it shouldnt matter what loks nice but mroe what works they have wasted ther eown money on piece of crap to make ti look nice if they had given it atennas it would not have as much probem with wirelss as it does

but saying that as a company that wants there brand to be good and are suppose to be more interested in the cusotmer being happy they should lsiten to there cusotmer, some cusotmer want just sole modem one that has not got bridged router in it, ye vmng3000 is gone but you always use that arguement insted of understanding what people who want it arguement for having it is

they could easily as i have said in another thread provide a buying opiton of a sole modem for cusotmer who ant it and refund the cusotmer when they leave and mak it like the vmng they can nto modify it as it virign propety modify it will rbeach tc

but i really dnt know why i am bother agruung with you as you seem to be brainwashed into virign mindset instead of being nutral and see both sides of the argum,ent i can be yes i am pro against shub but i am willing to prove i mgith eb worng with it but it wont change my opinion on it

Just to check what you typed - did you say

"I am willing to prove I might be wrong with it but it won't change my opinion on it"?

So you state that Peter isn't neutral and won't see both sides of the argument, then you state even if you are proven wrong, it won't change your mind?

[Andrewcrawford23]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Just to check what you typed - did you say

"I am willing to prove I might be wrong with it but it won't change my opinion on it"?

So you state that Peter isn't neutral and won't see both sides of the argument, then you state even if you are proven wrong, it won't change your mind?

fair point there hugh but i dnt think i meant it the way it has came across

if the test prove it wireless and trasner speeds are better than i think it will change my mind and say i am wrong

but it wot change my mind on not liking it and to prefer a modemthat is only a modem

does that make sense? i am nutral in the test i wont bias it to my way if the test show it better than i always say ie it is crap i will stop refering to it as crap and only say you might havea fulty shub

---------- Post added at 17:18 ---------- Previous post was at 16:30 ----------

i would jsut liek to give a example of what i mean so hopefully it is clear i would be neutral but still have my own opinion

OK here is two examples

we have say two gigabit switches and prior to the test i claim the cheap one is **** and crap and the netgear one is one i prefer and is much better

say a cheap unknown brand costing say £10 and we have say a netgeat one hat costs say £100

both are 5 port switch

So i test teh throguhtput of say the cheap one and it has a throughput of say 105MB/s and then i test the netgear one and it has a throughput of say 95MB/s, the cheap one correctly auto negetioes teh speed at gigabit full duplex where as the netgear one only auto getnaties to 100mb full duplex but does gigabit full duplex when setting the pc card to that instead of auto

that would be some of the tes ti do i would do other but for this example it is really improtant the test but the fgures, so from the tests i would conclude that teh cheap gigabit switchs outperforms the branded netgear one, so form then on out i would not refer to it as crap and **** i would say perofrmance wise and for price the cheap one is the best option but personally i would chosoe the netgear as that is my opinion but it isnt the best

another example two tvs

so we have two tvs with similar specs

one tv is a lg something another and the other is samsung something another

from testing i find the lg outperforms in a lot the same specs than teh samsung one so from then on out i will recommend and say teh lg is better than sasmsung but my perosnal choice and opinion is to go with samsung since it is abetter brand in my iopnion but test conducted by myself show for similar tv and price the lg one is better

does that explain what i mean by neutral and but not chanign my mind????

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by Andrewcrawford23

but i really dnt know why i am bother agruung with you as you seem to be brainwashed into virign mindset instead of being nutral and see both sides of the argum,ent i can be yes i am pro against shub but i am willing to prove i mgith eb worng with it but it wont change my opinion on it

Did you perchance misread my post as I doubt that I could have been much clearer, try re-reading it and think about what I actually posted and do not skim any of it or you will not understand it.

I have stated that many times and not just in this thread that they made a mistake supplying both the VMNG300 and the Superhub when they could have bought off the shelf quality kit such as Cisco and Motorola devices but they went down a rather strange route and bought those devices instead.

I have stated that my device and the majority on the network actually work as most people expect them to but it could have been so much better with better kit.

Also be aware that I no longer work for Virgin Media and have not done so for 4 weeks.

[Andrewcrawford23]

Originally Posted by Peter_

Did you perchance misread my post as I doubt that I could have been much clearer, try re-reading it and think about what I actually posted and do not skim any of it or you will not understand it.

I have stated that many times and not just in this thread that they made a mistake supplying both the VMNG300 and the Superhub when they could have bought off the shelf quality kit such as Cisco and Motorola devices but they went down a rather strange route and bought those devices instead.

I have stated that my device and the majority on the network actually work as most people expect them to but it could have been so much better with better kit.

Also be aware that I no longer work for Virgin Media and have not done so for 4 weeks.

i did read what you said and yes i udnerstand that you said they should go with cisco motorola branded stuff but you do seem to keep saying virgin choice should stand because it suits majority of customer

that bit about it suiting the majority of customer is what i am disagreeing with, they should have two options the sueprhub which will do for most peopple (as i say i plan to test it when i get and be non biased and prove whether it si bad or not, if i get bad results ill then geta replacement and do so until if i get 5 or 6 and the same results then i will nto say it a faulty device it jus thow it peforsm but if it performs better than i expect i will say it and finally admit it is better than i thought and not as crap as i say and will never refer to it as such again, btu that all depend on teh results) but they should offer a branded sole modem no router for cusotmer who dnt wan a superhub and are willign to pay for it but make it lik the vmng it there property so you cant modify it etc and refudn the cusotmer when they leave

if i am still not clear rather than keep this goign here i will pm you and try to explain in more details, as i think you misunderstood me to, (ill admit i might be wrong and i think you might not be as much pro virign as i thought) but i sitll think you sort of jsut take virign side more

i know oyu dnt work for them anymore but that wouldnt mean you couldnt be pro virgin i have defend virign a lot in the past esicpally with regards to the the tv side and the number of channels

---------- Post added at 17:43 ---------- Previous post was at 17:38 ----------

It might not seem it at time but i am always a very fair person always have been i will alawys take both sides of argument into account and see both sides but i am very opinated in what my own personal views are but that should never be seen as i will not be fair just wha ti believe i will never force what i believe onto other i will jsut give my opinion

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by Andrewcrawford23

i did read what you said and yes i udnerstand that you said they should go with cisco motorola branded stuff but you do seem to keep saying virgin choice should stand because it suits majority of customer

No not quite, I said that the majority have no issue with the Superhub which is true, but if we had better branded kit off the shelf as previously 99.9% would be happy, now is that clearer.

[Andrewcrawford23]

Originally Posted by Peter_

No not quite, I said that the majority have no issue with the Superhub which is true, but if we had better branded kit off the shelf as previously 99.9% would be happy, now is that clearer.

yes so i apogolise for taking the wrong end of the stick as to wha ti seem to think your opinion was

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by Andrewcrawford23

yes so i apogolise for taking the wrong end of the stick as to wha ti seem to think your opinion was

I knew what kit had been previously tested and was frankly amazed when they chose the VMNG300 over the Cisco and Motorola devices, if they had gone down that route we would never have seen the Superhub let alone the Hub.

[qasdfdsaq]

Originally Posted by hjf288

Netgear products are overpriced and of poor quality which is sad considering they used to have some good hardware..

Homehubs are made by Techicolor (Thomson) and while the hardware is good, the software isn't :p

The hardware is OK on the 3700, just using it as an example as it's extremely popular.

The Home Hub 3 is made by Huawei, not Thomson.

Further tests will be done on the LAN, once I figure out and fix why the Superhubs keep randomly dropping LAN devices.

If you feel like donating a E4200 I'd be happy to compare it, otherwise you'll have to just deal with what I have to hand (DIR-615, DIR-825, TL-WR2543ND, WNDR3700, and a HH3). I suppose I'll throw the WPN824 in there at some point too.

---------- Post added at 18:41 ---------- Previous post was at 18:27 ----------

Originally Posted by kwikbreaks

I have no agenda concerning the Superhub other than to say what I said - nobody is likely to be swayed by the results of these "tests" which are hardly going to be scientific anyway. The only way to test network throughput is by file transfers on your own LAN not speedtests of an internet service.

Sorry, but wrong. Where the internet service is considerably faster than the connection being tested and consistently maxes out the wireless link, the result would be exactly the same as over the LAN. The internet is afterall architecturally no different from a LAN, only larger.

[Andrewcrawford23]

Originally Posted by Peter_

I knew what kit had been previously tested and was frankly amazed when they chose the VMNG300 over the Cisco and Motorola devices, if they had gone down that route we would never have seen the Superhub let alone the Hub.

in terms of quailty the vmng is better than teh superhub but i agree the cisco or motorola one are bettr still and then add compabilty to the equation, ther few other cotenders out there i wasnt aware before that probally be as good if not better then vmng there adlink one

below are the oen i think virign shoudl have gone with

http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/devi...&s=&so=&sc=500
http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/devi...&s=&so=&sc=400
http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/devi...&s=&so=&sc=600
http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/devi...&s=&so=&sc=600
http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/devi...&s=&so=&sc=600

the reaosn i mainly choose them is for ipv6 support so they would have future proofed themself as it is jsut now i thik they need ot issue update or use cmts ipv4-ipv6 bridge which might be far more expsnive, ive not read the data sheet on them to see details about them more so couldnt say what oen i go for as top and if any the other docis 3 modem in data sheet format are better just stand out because of ipv6 which i wish virign would deploy

talking off which i assume you might know about the trail of it they done do you knwo anytihng about what there plans on ipv6 are

http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/ plenty more docsis 3 modem tha toculd be consider and probalyl even mroe not listed there

thanks to craig for that link

---------- Post added at 18:50 ---------- Previous post was at 18:46 ----------

just chek the data sheets of the ones available which there is 3 and none of them offer above 4 channel bonding but probally could have firmware update to improve that

---------- Post added at 19:00 ---------- Previous post was at 18:50 ----------

cisco one does 8 channel bonded so be perfect for modem only and is brandaed and more compabile with majority of ubr cmts but i doubt virgin will ofer it to people who jsut wanta modem

[craigj2k12]

Originally Posted by Andrewcrawford23

below are the oen i think virign shoudl have gone with

http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/devi...&s=&so=&sc=500
http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/devi...&s=&so=&sc=400
http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/devi...&s=&so=&sc=600
http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/devi...&s=&so=&sc=600
http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/devi...&s=&so=&sc=600

the reaosn i mainly choose them is for ipv6 support so they would have future proofed themself as it is jsut now i thik they need ot issue update or use cmts ipv4-ipv6 bridge which might be far more expsnive, ive not read the data sheet on them to see details about them more so couldnt say what oen i go for as top and if any the other docis 3 modem in data sheet format are better just stand out because of ipv6 which i wish virign would deploy

Arris Touchstone WBM760A only bonds 4 downstreams

as does the Motorola SURFboard SB6120 and the Motorola SURFboard SB6121

the Cisco DPC3008 looks like a decent device though

---------- Post added at 19:05 ---------- Previous post was at 19:04 ----------

beat me to it lol