Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[mertle]

what if for some brilliant program comes out its a successful method to actually stop PHORM attacks you will VM deem you breach your contract and remove you. How silly it could get.

To be honest what about website who use popups to support there business no doubt big brother PHORM and its cronies will leach there website avertising.

Why dont we just open our doors allow advertiser to sleep in the house with the buddies who will just piggyback a ride the hackers and fraudsters. Who no doubt will be smacking there lips at the impending chance to wreak havoc.

I will be basically try blocking every thing from PHORM trows at me with my router.

I wonder how PHORM would like it if we monitored there activities and put junk mail & adverts to them. No because if we did it we would be prosecuted but they are allowed to do to us.

Lets be honest I will assume we will be getting there junk through emails too. If they dont what the betting 60 - 70 emails will be heading our way who opt out.

surely PHORM is basically a legal Phishing.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by mertle

what if for some brilliant program comes out its a successful method to actually stop PHORM attacks you will VM deem you breach your contract and remove you. How silly it could get.

To be honest what about website who use popups to support there business no doubt big brother PHORM and its cronies will leach there website avertising.

Well, seeing as this site is funded by advertising, and I really don't want the admin team (myself included) to be landed with a bill for server hosting and software maintenance (licences cost money you know), I made a point of finding out how we would be affected.

We get a lot of people join this site to sort out problems with Virgin. As such, a lot of people access the site through Virgin, so we could lose a lot of money if Phorm hijack our ads. As far as I understand it, sites do have to opt in to recieve ads.

Still, it would be interesting to see if Virgin (or any ISP) do attempt to stop utilities that prevent Phorm working, because it could be taken to mean that their opt-out doesn't work (if it did, why would they care if you had opted out or were blocking their attempts to track you).

[none]

I've made an anti-Phorm av and sig that anyone is free to use (just dont use them on this board)

PM me if you want the links for them as apparently they are inappropriate for this forum and as such I cannot post them publicly.

Originally Posted by lucevans

I'm sorry if it sounded like I was stating a fact...I was just speculating

No harm in that .

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Morden

My experience of websense is that if unique login is active then you cannot bypass it. e.g. LDAP to access the network.

I'm not saying you can bypass it just that say
www.google.com might be on the blacklist (unlikely) but http://216.239.51.99/ is not and inputting that allows you to access the blacklisted site.

Originally Posted by none

I've made an anti-Phorm av and sig that anyone is free to use (just dont use them on this board)

PM me if you want the links for them as apparently they are inappropriate for this forum and as such I cannot post them publicly.

It's a shame because I'd seen them and I like them, but unfortunately - just a tad inappropriate for use on this forum.

[brundles]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

Well, seeing as this site is funded by advertising, and I really don't want the admin team (myself included) to be landed with a bill for server hosting and software maintenance (licences cost money you know), I made a point of finding out how we would be affected.

We get a lot of people join this site to sort out problems with Virgin. As such, a lot of people access the site through Virgin, so we could lose a lot of money if Phorm hijack our ads.

That's an interesting point. Aside from the fact that it would really suck having to pay Phorm to keep CFs adverts in place at VM, what's the betting that "relevance" as graded by Phorm is tied to how much you've paid them?

Originally Posted by Stuart C

Still, it would be interesting to see if Virgin (or any ISP) do attempt to stop utilities that prevent Phorm working, because it could be taken to mean that their opt-out doesn't work (if it did, why would they care if you had opted out or were blocking their attempts to track you).

Alternatively it could mean they know the opt-out is a token gesture but it's enough to keep them (debateably) legal, but would actually rather you couldn't. What's they betting they do try and stop these things working with some reason about "5% of users degrading network performance with these tools blah blah blah"?

[popper]

its interesting that Phorm wasnt legal as regards registering with the
Data Protection Public Register

http://www.ico.gov.uk/ESDWebPages/Search.asp?EC=1
(search on phorm as the name as theres no direct URL for that).

until 30 January 2008 ,well after the BT trials began.

lets hope the other companies really didnt start any user unauthorised prosessing backroom trials before that date, or they could be in as serious trouble as BT appear to have placed themselves in now.

UK companies processing personal data without being registered on the
Data Protection Public Register is a BIG NO NO, and very serious apparently.

"
Registration Number: Z1196938
Date Registered: 30 January 2008 Registration Expires: 29 January 2009

Data Controller: PHORM UK INC

Address:
LIBERTY HOUSE
222 REGENT STREET
LONDONW1B 5TR
...

A COPY OF THE DATA PROTECTION REGISTER
This site houses a copy of the public register. It is updated daily.

However, due to peaks of work it may be some time before new notifications, renewals and amendments appear in the public register.

Please note data controllers are deemed notified from the date we receive a valid form and fee.

Therefore the fact that an entry does not appear on the public register does not mean that the data controller is committing a criminal offence.

If you have a specific query you can contact us on 01625 545740.

"

also an ACs BT comment in the same thread makes for good reading too.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02...2007/comments/

...
Here are some technical details - from last summer's experiment

By Anonymous Coward
Posted Thursday 28th February 2008 10:49 GMT

http://www.spikelab.org/blog/btProxyHorror.html
Which includes, amongst other logged details the triggered request and the script embedded in the page that triggered it."

Ohh just to round it off, VIRGIN MEDIAs entry makes for interesting reading regarding what information they might hold on you.
http://www.ico.gov.uk/ESDWebPages/Do...sp?reg=3657255

its potentially a lot more than you might think and would mean you might get a get a LOT more paper than you thought, if and when you send that DPA for 'any and all data' :|

[popper]

http://orange.advfn.com/news_Phorm-s..._25012598.html
"Phorm says Gestrust cuts stake in co to 10.63 pct

Date :28/02/2008 @ 18:24
Source :TFN
Stock :Phorm Inc (PHRM)
Quote : 3300.0 -40.0 (-1.20%) @ 07:38
..."

[Valerie]

Been trying to follow this thread. I understand that the problem is VM contemplating selling our surfing details to Phorm so they can target ads at us. (horrendous idea).

I don't understand where webwise comes in (don't think I have it on my comp). If you don't have webwise are you still affected by this issue?

Originally Posted by Valerie

Been trying to follow this thread. I understand that the problem is VM contemplating selling our surfing details to Phorm so they can target ads at us. (horrendous idea).

Absolutely but interestingly 15 people voting in the above poll think its a great idea, oddly.

Originally Posted by Valerie

I don't understand where webwise comes in (don't think I have it on my comp). If you don't have webwise are you still affected by this issue?

At the moment as it stands, when and if this is launched on Virgin Media, a visit to the webwise site - check the opt out box, submit and this stores a cookie which will not trigger targetted adverts.

The problem with the above is that you shouldn't have to go through this process to Opt out - Every time for instance that a 'cookie' clearout happens - a revisit to website to do all the above is required again to opt out. It's really stupid that the 'cookie' stored on your computer is only a temporarily 'Opt out'.

ISPs that have been signed up to this will encourage or try to encourage customers, not to opt out by going to Webwise. ISPs have been told to warn customers that they will not be protected by Webwise's Anti-Phishing's protection, but this is hardly an issue to worry about as I am sure most customers will have adequate protection anyway - the fact that there will be no protection on offer. or customers being told such information, should one decide to opt out or complain to their ISP - is blatant scaremongering to try to discourage 'opt outs' en mass.

[brundles]

Originally Posted by Valerie

Been trying to follow this thread. I understand that the problem is VM contemplating selling our surfing details to Phorm so they can target ads at us. (horrendous idea).

I don't understand where webwise comes in (don't think I have it on my comp). If you don't have webwise are you still affected by this issue?

Webwise is essentially the way that VM & Co are trying to convince you Phorm is a good idea. It's supposed to an anti-phishing technology. The argument and scaremongering when you opt out of the adverts is "oh, but you're exposing yourself to phishing scams now".

The fact that many (me included in them) think that you're more at risk by VM handing over all your surfing data than from a few dodgy scam sites which are (if you're sensible) easily enough avoided seems to not factor into VM's money-grabbing business decision.

Edit: Must type quicker!

[none]

Just a quick reminder

Don't forget to watch BBC's Watchdog tonight to see if they've picked up this story.

BBC1 - Watchdog 7:30pm tonight

Originally Posted by Stuart C

Well, seeing as this site is funded by advertising, and I really don't want the admin team (myself included) to be landed with a bill for server hosting and software maintenance (licences cost money you know), I made a point of finding out how we would be affected.

We get a lot of people join this site to sort out problems with Virgin. As such, a lot of people access the site through Virgin, so we could lose a lot of money if Phorm hijack our ads. As far as I understand it, sites do have to opt in to recieve ads.

Still, it would be interesting to see if Virgin (or any ISP) do attempt to stop utilities that prevent Phorm working, because it could be taken to mean that their opt-out doesn't work (if it did, why would they care if you had opted out or were blocking their attempts to track you).

This is just an example of the scare mongering thats going on. They will not be highjacking any adverts what so ever. Sites will sign up just like they do to Google Ads and choose where they want the ads placing. the only difference is that Google ads serve adverts based on what the page where the add is whereas phorm will serve ads based on what the user has been surfing for the last few hours.

Can we get confirmation that if this plan does go ahead that Cable Forum will not be signing up to serve ads from them even if means more money for them?

I still don't see what the fuss is all about, I've got nothing to hide and in the end it means more money for the sites I use as a make a habit of clicking ads on my favorite sites as I know that for each click the site is paid even better if the ad is something that I may be intrested in.

[popper]

teckcrunch ?, anyone know this guys site and background?
http://uk.techcrunch.com/2008/02/29/...nto-something/
Phorm might be onto something

February 29 Mike Butcher

Since behavioural targeting company Phorm launched recently I’ve looked at the ins-and-outs of the system and it does look pretty interesting.

Phorm is basically an add-on service for an ISP which looks at all your web surfing and attaches an anonymous cookie to your machine.

ISPs trying to target advertising based on this packet data appeared way back in the first dotcom boom, but no-on could make it work.

Phorm uses a technology called ‘deep packet inspection boxes’ to track EVERY website you visit.

Normal cookies are tied to just the one web site they came from, or the ad-network, like DoubleClick’s. Phorm’s cookie looks at all of them
...

Phorm has so far launched in the UK with BT, TalkTalk, and Virgin Media.

The Phorm cookie also recognises publishers signed up to Phorms ad system, so the partners for that are the FT.com; iVillage; Universal McCann; MGM OMD and Unanimis.
"