Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Originally Posted by mark777

So. Target people who regularly take part in on-line surveys to be the Phorm guinea-pigs? Offer a money incentive?

Makes sense from the BT point of view, but they can never claim it to be a typical cross-section of the UK public.

Good find. I hope she follows up with more information if she follows it through.

Does that sound really sinister or is it me?

I think it's known as "grooming"

Hi Jennie,

We have a new survey available for you to take. You will also be asked if you would like to take part in an ongoing program run by BT in which you will be asked to take part in online activities. You will need to provide your e-mail address and register on the website so that you can be sent the details of how to take part. In exchange for taking part you will be given some sweeties, do you like sweeties Jennie? If you'd like to see some puppies we'll give you 25p or £1.00 if during the online activities you touch...

[Dephormation]

Originally Posted by phormwatch

http://jennielaw.blogspot.com/2008/0...m-filling.html

Given what I've seen, it looks (in comparison to Phorm) innocuous.

Its something to do with an online directory service, domain is btexchanges.com. I'm about to run some DNS/IP address checks and wll report details momentarily.

---------- Post added at 19:50 ---------- Previous post was at 19:48 ----------

OK,

According to robtex BTexchanges.com is not hosted inside BT. Its on a 'Rackspace.com' server 92.52.64.192. However DNS for the btexchanges.com domain is provided by BT. Its Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Windows Server 2003.

Domain Registrant:
BRITISH TELECOMMUNICATIONS PLC
PP. G555
81 Newgate Street
London, London ec1a 7aj
UK

Netcraft reports the IP range is owned by Mural Ventures ltd.

The survey data was gathered by confirmit.com (survey.euro.confirmit.com/212.100.250.8). According to robtex its again outside BT, in an ip range owned by Future Information Research Management.

Netcraft reports the server is based in the UK (though note the organisation details for Confirmit ASA, Hoffsveien 48, Oslo, Oslo, 0377, Norway).

BT seem to be incapable of hosting anything on their internal systems, particularly systems that gather marketing and personal information from their customers.

[madslug]

Originally Posted by phormwatch

http://jennielaw.blogspot.com/2008/0...m-filling.html

Very interesting. Browser logs from beginning to end of that survey could be very useful.

My first response was - it can't be in every RAS centre!! Then I reasoned that anyone who fills in lots of surveys has probably supplied enough personal data for them to have been picked based on some demographics.

The one thing that makes me think that this is something completely different is the phrase "BT's online activities" which suggests that BT will be in control all the time.

---------- Post added at 19:57 ---------- Previous post was at 19:52 ----------

Originally Posted by phormwatch

Text version of 'Open Letter to Internet Businesses'. I'll create a PDF version soon.

http://nodpi.wikispaces.com/Propaganda2

Edit needed for new domain for e-petitions.

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/ispphorm/

[phormwatch]

Thanks.

[madslug]

There hosts where the host servers are all in one data centre but you can have an IP address for a specific EU country attached to the hosting. Unfortunately the only client I host there is using the same country IP address as where the servers are hosted so I can't test what happens with different geo-IP addresses.

[Wildie]

just had a email back from a web site what asks for all your details name addy and tel and what not to register no https and then once all done the info is still shown to the public without been logged in.

here is the reply:

Hello

Apologies for the late response. The information entered is not deemed to require https. Most of the information you input will be displayed on the website to the public anyway.
Sensitive information such as payment information is under https.

now with phorm will it ignore all that usefull personal detail cos i am sure some of our names are not like common as smith and jones.
so I have replied back with web links to all the info about bt and webwise/phorm.
how many more sites out there that use open none https for personal details to register to use their services?

[Dephormation]

More info on that survey, the FAQ and T&Cs links are hosted on www.just-rewards-hosting.co.uk.

According to netcraft, the just-rewards-hosting server is hosted in the UK, by EUKHost Ltd, reverse DNS is merlin.eukhost.com, running Apache 1.3 on Linux.

Why on earth isn't the FAQ hosted on the same server as the survey, let alone the service itself, and why isn't it all inside BT? Gawdsakes.

Domain name:
just-rewards-hosting.co.uk

Registrant:
Experian

Trading as:
Experian

Registrant type:
UK Public Limited Company, (Company number: 653331)

Registrant's address:
Embankment House
Nottingham
NG80 1EH
GB

So there is a credit reference agency involved in this.

Anyway, in summary, no evidence of a link to Phorm. But yet more reason to switch ISP.

[tarka]

Originally Posted by Dephormation

More info on that survey, the FAQ and T&Cs links are hosted on www.just-rewards-hosting.co.uk.

According to netcraft, the just-rewards-hosting server is hosted in the UK, by EUKHost Ltd, reverse DNS is merlin.eukhost.com, running Apache 1.3 on Linux.

Why on earth isn't the FAQ hosted on the same server as the survey, let alone the service itself, and why isn't it all inside BT? Gawdsakes.

Domain name:
just-rewards-hosting.co.uk

Registrant:
Experian

Trading as:
Experian

Registrant type:
UK Public Limited Company, (Company number: 653331)

Registrant's address:
Embankment House
Nottingham
NG80 1EH
GB

So there is a credit reference agency involved in this.

Anyway, in summary, no evidence of a link to Phorm. But yet more reason to switch ISP.

I remember Experian being linked to behavioural advertising before and managed to find the link again...

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle3688387.ece

[bluecar1]

so what services do BT run themselves

helpdesk=india
customer services= ibm
advertising = phorm(shortly - in bt's definition of the word)
surveys = experian
mail services = yahoo
parental controls = yahoo
RAS servers = BTW

seems to be all that there is left is managers to manage all the outsourced services

peter

[madslug]

Originally Posted by bluecar1

so what services do BT run themselves

helpdesk=india
customer services= ibm
advertising = phorm(shortly - in bt's definition of the word)
surveys = experian
mail services = yahoo
parental controls = yahoo
RAS servers = BTW

seems to be all that there is left is managers to manage all the outsourced services

peter

You are forgetting the tracking cookies that run all through the BT sites.

advertising - doubleclick / omniture touchclarity - "He continued: "Omniture TouchClarity provides the essential mechanism by which a website can listen, learn and respond to each visitor in a thoughtful and intelligent manner and prove the resulting increase in performance lift and yield".
Omniture TouchClarity works by building rich individual visitor behavioural profiles and combines it with automated predictive modelling techniques in order to enable the real-time targeting of each visitor with the most engaging content."

[pseudonym]

Originally Posted by Wildie

one thing about using dpi to pick up key words will it be in context? like "they was bombing it down the hill on their bikes"
Two key words would they be taken out of context, you get ads servered up for a bike and the sas kicking your front door in.. software is not that clever is, so it will be tagged and viewed by a human thinking it`s all coded text they reading.

The 2006 pagesence trials appeared to pick up to 10 groups of words in context, I'd be surprised if their new product's profiling was more primative - unless they've been limited by itrequiring too many profilers to meet the processing overheads.

A couple of examples from the sysip.net javascript leak thread on badphorm
- http://www.badphorm.co.uk/e107_plugi...ic.php?2579.10

1.

referer-kww=


mexico%20good%20american%20series%20instruments%20 7,
fender%20ic%20series%20jazz%20bass%207,
post%20reply%206,
instruments%20expensive%20instruments%204,
good%20aswell%202,
playability%20%202,
affordable%20made%20mexico%202,
edit%201,
message%201,
models%201





2.

&search-tr=how%20am%20i%20tested%20for%20std%3F


&referer-kw=

info%20std%20testing,
google,
search,
tested%20std,
web,
links,
affordable,
district%20columbia,
information%20teens

[Wildie]

i find that rather funny the last word

---------- Post added at 00:25 ---------- Previous post was at 00:15 ----------

has this been posted http://www.out-law.com/page-9345

[warescouse]

Originally Posted by Dephormation

cut...
BT seem to be incapable of hosting anything on their internal systems, particularly systems that gather marketing and personal information from their customers.

IMHO to be fair, the old BT in the past had a deserved respect within the technological community and would not have had a clue about dubious methods such as Phorm / Webwise and other possibly illegal data gathering aspects of communication.

I believe they have been infiltrated by a breed of command that has lost its direction and is possible totally consumed with making money by fair means or foul.

Because the old style bread and butter BT personnel have been trained and indoctrinated by the customer is king and the BT does no evil doctrine, the top tier would definitely have to look elsewhere for this type of behaviour and 'expertise'. I suspect the ills of BT lie within this top tier of command.

[mark777]

Originally Posted by Wildie

{snip}
has this been posted http://www.out-law.com/page-9345

I would love to see one of these surveys published with the actual questions that were asked.

A couple of days ago, leaving my local supermarket, which wants planning permission to expand, I witnessed a good example.

"Would you prefer we expanded our food or our non-food areas?"

Whatever way you answer, they can go to the local council and say all our customers are in favour of expansion. (And they were adamant I had to pick one, right up to the point when I walked away.)

Without the questions, and the answers to them, these polls are meaningless.

Good spot though Wildie.

EDIT: Tescos btw.

[Dephormation]

Originally Posted by warescouse

IMHO to be fair, the old BT in the past had a deserved respect within the technological community and would not have had a clue about dubious methods such as Phorm / Webwise and other possibly illegal data gathering aspects of communication.

I believe they have been infiltrated by a breed of command that has lost its direction and is possible totally consumed with making money by fair means or foul.

Couldn't agree more. Contrasts with BT Global Services touting themselves in these terms;

Our managed infrastructure options include server hosting and management, storage, and databases. We can also design, develop, implement and support a full IT and communications platform.

No wonder there are reports of rifts.