21-01-2017, 10:45
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#811
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Remoaner
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,271
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Could be expectations management but let's hope for a bloodbath. The only way things will improve is a massive jolt to the system. I think it's in everyone's interest to have a decent opposition.
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21-01-2017, 10:53
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#812
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Still alive and fighting
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Posts: 56,352
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Thursday, 23 February ... by elections in Copeland and Stoke Central. There could be blood on the carpet.
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Best to get out your reliable steam cleaner then as it will be required.
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“The only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itself”
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21-01-2017, 12:27
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#813
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,288
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
Could be expectations management but let's hope for a bloodbath. The only way things will improve is a massive jolt to the system. I think it's in everyone's interest to have a decent opposition.
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If the local party has picked a candidate over Corbyn's nominee, the chances reduce of a bloodbath as i) the candidate should perform better than Corbyn's nominee ii) if the candidate performs badly blame can be laid at the local party and not Corbyn. So the status quo of a weak opposition and Theresa and her unchecked mayhem continues.
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21-01-2017, 18:29
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#814
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-.- ..- .-. ... -.-
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,849
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Nice quip by Piers Morgan (yes I know) on Question Time last night:
Emily Thornberry: We're not in government at the moment ...
Morgan: You're not in opposition either...
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Morgan was on form but the quote you have attributed to him was in fact made by Alistair Carmichael.
Morgan is witty but not clever and witty
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22-01-2017, 19:01
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#815
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-
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Somewhere
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Posts: 26,536
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
Could be expectations management but let's hope for a bloodbath. The only way things will improve is a massive jolt to the system. I think it's in everyone's interest to have a decent opposition.
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The problem is, Labour have not been an effective opposition for years, possibly decades. You can argue that Tony Blair was quite sucessfull, and he was. He won two terms with no need for a coalition. (something which no prime minister has done since), but when he was leader, Labour were saying largely the same things the tories did. David Cameron only won his first term because he joined a coalition, and I personally believe he only won his second because he was able to ensure the Liberals were blamed for the bad stuff his government did, and Labour were not an effective opposition (sorry to any Ed Milliband fans, but with the economy in the state it was from the government's austerity measures, any halfway competent opposition leader should have been able to walk the election and still win).
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22-01-2017, 22:03
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#816
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[NTHW] pc clan
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Tonbridge
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
any halfway competent opposition leader should have been able to walk the election and still win).
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Yeah, but he had the EdStone
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23-01-2017, 07:54
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#817
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Inactive
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Posts: 22,316
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod
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I wonder what happened to the special advisor(s) who persuaded daft Miliband that it was a great idea...
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23-01-2017, 08:46
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#818
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Remoaner
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,271
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem
I wonder what happened to the special advisor(s) who persuaded daft Miliband that it was a great idea...
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There's a story that the person who was heading the Labour election campaign screamed 'NO!' then he saw it on tv. He apparently had no idea as different sections of the campaign weren't communicating well enough.
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23-01-2017, 16:31
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#819
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Trollsplatter
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Or at all, as the case may be.
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23-01-2017, 16:58
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#820
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Inactive
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Right here!
Posts: 22,316
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
There's a story that the person who was heading the Labour election campaign screamed 'NO!' then he saw it on tv. He apparently had no idea as different sections of the campaign weren't communicating well enough.
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I suppose it could have been someone Milband met on one of his nice strolls meeting the plebs on Hampstead Heath...
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24-01-2017, 16:09
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#821
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Coventry
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
The problem is, Labour have not been an effective opposition for years, possibly decades. You can argue that Tony Blair was quite successful, and he was. He won two terms with no need for a coalition. (something which no prime minister has done since), but when he was leader, Labour were saying largely the same things the tories did. David Cameron only won his first term because he joined a coalition, and I personally believe he only won his second because he was able to ensure the Liberals were blamed for the bad stuff his government did, and Labour were not an effective opposition (sorry to any Ed Milliband fans, but with the economy in the state it was from the government's austerity measures, any halfway competent opposition leader should have been able to walk the election and still win).
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The Tories won in 2015 because they were able to convince people that they were restoring the strength of the economy and were therefore more competent than Labour. * The device they used for this was high immigration. Some will argue that low corporation tax played a big part, but most would say this was not the main driver. Immigration increases demand, business start-ups, GDP and the revenue stream. This was the Tories at their most duplicitous, promising to reduce EU and non-EU immigration whilst allowing it to rise. To make it worse, and we have all suffered for this, they failed to allocate any of that increased revenue stream into the services of those parts of the country with the highest immigration.
Consequence? Farage, and fellow opportunists, were able to exploit the resulting peak in anti-immigration feelings and convert it into a vote to leave the EU. The tragic irony is that leaving the EU, on its own, will not reduce immigration. The needs of the economy are what decides immigration levels. Ask the Australians with their economy-friendly points system. Aussies are still complaining about high immigration.
* Edit: I would argue that high immigration is still behind our continued growth, although uncertainty about the final nature of Brexit will soon dragging us back down again. More irony?
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Last edited by roughbeast; 24-01-2017 at 17:03.
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25-01-2017, 07:20
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#822
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[NTHW] pc clan
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Tonbridge
Age: 56
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
From the Spectator:
Quote:
In its intolerance of views other than its own, its ambivalence about freedom of expression, its assumption that bigger government is better government and its arrogant, self-satisfied hypocrisy, today’s left is anything but liberal.
Fascist may be too strong a word and one that’s been debased as a general term of political abuse (ironically, by the left). But the original fascists, Mussolini and Mosley, began as socialists impatient with the democratic process.
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25-01-2017, 08:06
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#823
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Remoaner
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,271
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
But even Corbyn and his supporters wouldn't call themselves liberal. They're not liberals. As said before the way, in this country, liberal and left are synonymous is the kind of imported Americanism that Brietbart awkwardly tried to do. We have Conservatives who're liberal here.
As for the examples given it becomes rather hard to differentiate between left and right at some point. Trump is doing things in might be considered left wing. He is a protectionist who wants to impose tariffs on imports, limit free trade and spend a lot of government money on providing jobs. If Trump proves a failure I suspect you'll be defining him as a liberal too.
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25-01-2017, 12:27
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#824
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[NTHW] pc clan
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Age: 56
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Posts: 21,950
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Nope. I'll simply be defining him a failure.
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