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-   -   Superhub : VM remotely change settings? (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33675708)

Chrysalis 09-03-2011 19:28

VM remotely change settings?
 
VM posted an update here.

http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/...te/td-p/386049

note the first paragraph, they plan to remotely change a setting specifically the ip flood protection.

Am I the only one who doesnt like the idea of VM remotely controlling my router when they feel like it?

Stephen 09-03-2011 19:35

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
I don't think they will actually be remotely controlling every superhub but I imagine it will be a small software update to each of the modems.

Peter_ 09-03-2011 19:35

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
It will be done via firmware I expect and as they are actually Virginmedia owned equipment then I expect they are well within their rights to update the equipment as they feel fit as per the Terms and Conditions, Section H, paragraph B & C.

vmfriend 09-03-2011 19:40

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 35190220)
VM posted an update here.

http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/...te/td-p/386049

note the first paragraph, they plan to remotely change a setting specifically the ip flood protection.

Am I the only one who doesnt like the idea of VM remotely controlling my router when they feel like it?

Did you sign up as they are giving preference to those that sign up to this trial being able to test the bridge mode on future firmware.

jtaylor06 09-03-2011 20:17

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
I don't mind what they do with my router, as long as the internet works.
If it can be improved by them changing settings remotely, then that's just a bonus :p:

zekeisaszekedoes 09-03-2011 22:55

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
Oh, I am so totally signing up for this! :D

No really. I've moaned about it long enough, maybe me and my qualifications can help fix it somehow.

pabscars 10-03-2011 10:56

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
Quote:

We and Netgear have also diagnosed and fixed the packet loss issue in the latest test version of our Super Hub firmware. We've tested this in our lab and shown that this firmware successfully fixes the known problems that cause packet loss as well as a number of other bugs.

Apart from the pingtest.net packet loss error showing up because the IP flood detection suspect's it as dodgy, what other packet loss issues does the SH have?

Reading this from the link zeke posted suggests other packet loss issues on top of the ones were aware off.

Or have I missed something

Stephen 10-03-2011 22:04

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zekeisaszekedoes (Post 35190353)
Oh, I am so totally signing up for this! :D

No really. I've moaned about it long enough, maybe me and my qualifications can help fix it somehow.

What have your qaulifications got to do with it? You would simply be asked to run the updated software and see if it worked. Internally when testing I have filled out and followed scripts and was one of the testers for the superhub and I am still using it without a single problem. Out of the hundreds that probably tested it any small niggles at the time would have been resolved.

However once transfered to a full release there are always going to be a few things that were either missed or didnt appear in testing.

For most people the superhub will work fine but of course there are people that will have issues and some people that find the superhub doesn't do what they want it too.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few :)

AndyCambs 11-03-2011 05:33

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
Without wishing to hurt anyone's feelings, I think a lot of issues are caused by people not understanding how it operates.
I've had two issues - both of which were easily solved by a change to the settings.

jb66 11-03-2011 07:29

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
How cone ip flood protection on the regular hub is fine?

Peter_ 11-03-2011 07:40

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jb66 (Post 35191055)
How cone ip flood protection on the regular hub is fine?

The is no option in that hub to untick ip flood protection so must not be used on that device.

Chrysalis 11-03-2011 09:35

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyCambs (Post 35191042)
Without wishing to hurt anyone's feelings, I think a lot of issues are caused by people not understanding how it operates.
I've had two issues - both of which were easily solved by a change to the settings.

some issues such as low timeouts have no settings, so without twisting your feelings you obviously were affected y something different.

zekeisaszekedoes 11-03-2011 12:53

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35190978)
What have your qaulifications got to do with it? You would simply be asked to run the updated software and see if it worked.

The ability to give more in-depth analysis of firmware performance in a variety of situations most users would not encounter, for one. Poor testing has undoubtedly contributed to the product being released in what several (not just CF members) have described as an unfinished state.

The current firmware "works", but not well. This is exactly the reason more advanced users are finding bugs, and why running with the firewall/flood protection off is seen as an acceptable solution. Asking more technically adept users to be the first batch of testers seems like the logical solution, although your reaction seems to suggest you've missed that entirely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35190978)
Internally when testing I have filled out and followed scripts and was one of the testers for the superhub and I am still using it without a single problem. Out of the hundreds that probably tested it any small niggles at the time would have been resolved.

However once transfered to a full release there are always going to be a few things that were either missed or didnt appear in testing.

Few things eh? Unreliable wireless performance and unit instability seem like pretty grave problems to me. Seems like you're trying to downplay the entire situation when there's plenty of proof it needs some serious improvement, which I'm more than happy to help with so other users don't have to deal with problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35190978)
For most people the superhub will work fine but of course there are people that will have issues and some people that find the superhub doesn't do what they want it too.

Again, some of the problems are affecting everyone, not just advanced users who want to be able to use their own routers running expansive third-party firmware which offers the facilities to maximise the usefulness of their relatively inexpensive home broadband connection without the cost and hassle of a corporate solution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35190978)
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few :)

Obligatory Star Trek TOS quote, nice. :p:

I agree, and I want to help both of those. Unfortunately Mark Wilkin hasn't even opened the PM which provides my details (SH hardware MAC etc) yet so either he has sufficient testers already or is just too busy. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyCambs (Post 35191042)
Without wishing to hurt anyone's feelings, I think a lot of issues are caused by people not understanding how it operates.
I've had two issues - both of which were easily solved by a change to the settings.

Which is exactly the sort of thing VM were trying to avoid with the SH rollout. But let's be honest, there are some obvious rookie mistakes in the current Super Hub firmware that should have been corrected before moving to mass production.

Stephen 11-03-2011 13:41

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
I am technically adept thanks, and have taken part in many trials.

I don't think it is down to poor testing at all, but just the way some people are expecting it to work like their stand alone router isn't how VM envisioned the super hub I think.

Poor wireless functionality? I have had mine running for months and not had a single drop out.

Am sure you would like to help but when testing firmware you would usually be given some scripts to follow then provide feedback. Although in the case of customers doing some final testing then they would just be looking for a bit of feedback concern the firmware after it was already internally trialled.

Chrysalis 11-03-2011 14:05

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
Has anyone had a reply of mark on the VM forums about the trial and been accepted?

I got a reply saying he wants me to take part and asked me for info, problem is I already gave him the info so I replied again asking if he needs me to resend it but had no reply since.

To stephen I think you have grossly misunderstood the scope of the problems with the superhub.

Some things affect a few users such as loss of ping capability and the low timeouts, some affect more users such as lack of features like DDNS and PAT, others affect many users such as a buggy ip flood protection and poor wireless performance, also if its true the superhub can only handle about 400mbit on its ethernet interfaces then that is also a major problem.

Some of these bugs I would expect to be picked up in trials, they things that are not as rare as made out.

Port forwarding for instance is very buggy, and its not much of a trial if noone uses port forwarding. Or are you suggesting the superhub is not designed to do what alternative routers do?

Incidently if I do get on this trial I will go out of my way to look for problems, I will deliberatly stress the thing, use it in ways I wouldnt normally use it just to look for bugs, that to me would be been a good tralist.

pabscars 11-03-2011 14:18

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
Chrys, Port forwarding really struggles and rarely works when switching between games consoles, Xbox to PS3 and vice versa which results in NAT issues. and is only solvable via a reboot.

DMZ also falls over when port forwarding has allocated a particular port to another appliance. reboot sorts it out.

None of the above are a major headache now I've found the on/off button

---------- Post added at 14:18 ---------- Previous post was at 14:15 ----------

Re: Wireless performance, its the strength I find the issue, our superhub struggles upstairs and webpages time out accasionaly. No other router I've had including all the previous VM incarnations have been as poor (strength wise) as the superhub.

I don't seem to get any disconnections now, and downstairs it works fine ATM.

Ignitionnet 11-03-2011 14:27

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 35190220)
VM posted an update here.

http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/...te/td-p/386049

note the first paragraph, they plan to remotely change a setting specifically the ip flood protection.

Am I the only one who doesnt like the idea of VM remotely controlling my router when they feel like it?

Sky, BT, O2, Talk Talk all can do it. VM is the only one of the big 5 that doesn't. Or didn't.

As a reminder it's not your router.

Chrysalis 11-03-2011 15:03

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35191206)
Sky, BT, O2, Talk Talk all can do it. VM is the only one of the big 5 that doesn't. Or didn't.

As a reminder it's not your router.

I think its wrong for all of them, but I only mentioned VM as its my isp.

An isp controlling my router like that is like they have to molly coddle me assuming I am incapable of doing so myself.

Dont O2 supply firmwares on a download link rather than auto push it out?

Also BT, O2, sky can all use alternate routers which makes the problem less of a problem.

Incidently I can ssh into my 2nd superhub which has never been online but still cannot ssh into this one as if its been disabled, I havent been able to ssh into this one since I had that long outage and when it had trouble booting up.

Peter_ 11-03-2011 15:24

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 35191223)
I think its wrong for all of them, but I only mentioned VM as its my isp.

An isp controlling my router like that is like they have to molly coddle me assuming I am incapable of doing so myself.

Dont O2 supply firmwares on a download link rather than auto push it out?

Also BT, O2, sky can all use alternate routers which makes the problem less of a problem.

Incidently I can ssh into my 2nd superhub which has never been online but still cannot ssh into this one as if its been disabled, I havent been able to ssh into this one since I had that long outage and when it had trouble booting up.

They are changing a setting on their equipment nothing more and only in the Liverpool and Knowsley area at present and they can do so if they please because it is in the Terms and Conditions.

Chrysalis 11-03-2011 16:36

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35191234)
They are changing a setting on their equipment nothing more and only in the Liverpool and Knowsley area at present and they can do so if they please because it is in the Terms and Conditions.

You love to quote legal stuff a lot, why does that have a bearing on what I like or not.

Whether or not technically VM own the superhub and if its in t&c's is completely irrelevant if I like been molly cuddled on my router.

The bridge mode cant come soon enough, the sooner this is a dumb modem the better.

Ignitionnet 11-03-2011 16:51

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 35191223)
Dont O2 supply firmwares on a download link rather than auto push it out?

Nope - they also push them.

http://broadband.o2.co.uk/broadbandstatus/view/

I appreciate that few things tweak people's nerd rage quite like ISPs who like to control their own CPE though. ISPs have to appeal to the lowest common denominator and don't have the time or tools to go asking each customer how technically savvy they are and add them to some esoteric exclude list for firmware and configuration updates.

Peter_ 11-03-2011 16:55

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 35191257)
You love to quote legal stuff a lot, why does that have a bearing on what I like or not.

Whether or not technically VM own the superhub and if its in t&c's is completely irrelevant if I like been molly cuddled on my router.

The bridge mode cant come soon enough, the sooner this is a dumb modem the better.

But the is still nothing you or I can do about it.

zekeisaszekedoes 11-03-2011 22:49

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35191187)
I am technically adept thanks, and have taken part in many trials.

And at no point in my rebuke did I refute that, or even make mention of it. Your technical credentials were not called into question, I merely remarked that you missed my point. No need to get so defensive! ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35191187)
I don't think it is down to poor testing at all, but just the way some people are expecting it to work like their stand alone router isn't how VM envisioned the super hub I think.

It's clearly poor testing and poor design when core functionality is often intermittant for several users. I know what VM envisioned for the Super Hub, roughly, and I can tell you that my particular unit in no way fits the bill; a finding echoed by several others on here and the official VM community forums, enough to be featured in a number of web articles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35191187)
Poor wireless functionality? I have had mine running for months and not had a single drop out.

And exactly how much pressure are you putting it under? As I've pointed out, light web browsing and the odd file transfer won't kill it. Moving large amounts of data probably will. This and other factors mean it fails at doing basic routing functions most people take for granted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35191187)
Am sure you would like to help but when testing firmware you would usually be given some scripts to follow then provide feedback. Although in the case of customers doing some final testing then they would just be looking for a bit of feedback concern the firmware after it was already internally trialled.

This is the problem, obviously. Thanks for sharing, because now I have a better idea of where VM are failing: rigorous dedication to scripts. We're not talking actors on a stage reciting dialogue - real life situations don't tend to respond well to scripts. This appears to be a fatal flaw, a complete misjudgement.

Sure, have a script, but allow testers to elaborate and have some dialogue with the engineers, maybe an IM session where they can accurately ascertain where the problems might lie through use of open-ended questions. When both the VMNG300, the Hub and the Super Hub are full of problems at launch requiring firmware fixes a rethink is clearly required.

This lame attempt at damage control does no-one any favours. I'm sorry, that's just as polite as I can make it. I'm giving creative feedback on how VM could do things better, but to take a line from The Simpsons I guess "no one wants to listen to the nonsensical ravings of a loudmouthed malcontent".

Your move, chief.

---

PS: Chrysalis, your comments at the end of page 1 were outstanding. Could not have said it better myself though that doesn't stop me trying.

Chrysalis 15-03-2011 15:27

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
I guess I been accepted for trial, superhub just rebooted and on new firmware.

Wont say anything else yet until I know if ok to say anything else about it.

pip08456 15-03-2011 16:20

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
If so you should go onto the VM support forum and see if you have a PM from Mark.

He will most likely give you a link to a thread only visable to the trialists to report back you findings. (that's what happened when I was on a FW trial for the VMNG300).

You will also be told what you can make public but basing it on past experience as it's been pushed out to you then basically they are happy and won't mind. Check first though.

Chrysalis 15-03-2011 17:50

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
nope, had no communications at all, also no hidden forum is showing either. Even checked my VM email account and nothing there either.

--edit--

left him a PM :)

jb66 15-03-2011 22:05

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
Ip flood protection firmware fix rollout starts tomorrow

pip08456 16-03-2011 00:19

Re: VM remotely change settings?
 
So Chrys had a firmware update the day before the IP Flood firmware fix was rolled out?

Strange.


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