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Damien 14-02-2017 18:34
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Washington Post is saying Trump was warned weeks ago about Flynn by the DOJ:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...401_story.html

---------- Post added at 18:34 ---------- Previous post was at 17:26 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35885440)
There's a big difference between fake news and satire as well, you know private eye is classed as fake news by some outlets. Mmm perhaps organs is more apt than outlets actually.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35885448)
Private Eye does far more RIGEROUS research than than the DF or the Sun and therefore those outlets need to do some more research if they consider PE as fake.:rolleyes:
I saw that story and to be fair what happened is some university in America was compiling a list and misunderstood the satire/news thing the Private Eye does. It's not a usual format to mix real reporting with the joke stuff and whilst Private Eye makes it clear, you would have to be pretty slow to be unable to distinguish them, it seems someone compiling the list didn't know the magazine.

pip08456 14-02-2017 19:00
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35885717)
Washington Post is saying Trump was warned weeks ago about Flynn by the DOJ:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...401_story.html

---------- Post added at 18:34 ---------- Previous post was at 17:26 ----------





I saw that story and to be fair what happened is some university in America was complying a list and misunderstood the satire/news thing the Private Eye does. It's not a usual format to mix real reporting with the joke stuff and whilst Private Eye makes it clear, you would have to be pretty slow to be unable to distinguish them, it seems someone compiling the list didn't know the magazine.
Americans are pretty slow in a number of ways.:D

martyh 14-02-2017 19:09
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35885664)

Trump's ban was not a Muslim ban. The fact that many, many more Muslim nations were not affected by the ban, shows that accusation to be nonsense.
It was a Muslim ban from the specified countries because it gave priority to Christians



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35885674)
Why ? Did you ask them all ? Are you sure about that with your armchair degree in law?

A Federal Judge in Boston initially upheld Trumps Order, before a District Judge, in Seattle, temporarily blocked it nationwide.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...l-ban-45237826



So no, not ALL the courts disagreed at all.
Yes because Trumps Muslim ban was thrown out of court and denied ,had the judges agreed with it he would have won ,even you should be able to understand that simple piece of logic.You can be as pedantic as you like Mick pretending that because one judge initially allowed it "so not ALL the courts disagreed at all":rolleyes:(but the rest banned the ban)that just makes you look ridiculous ,you need to accept that he was wrong ,the judges said he was wrong ,you need to accept it .No doubt you will come up with more reasons why you are right and the USA's judiciary are wrong because your armchair degree is better than mine but i really can't be arsed with you and your ilk any more so i'll leave you to come up with more ways to be wrong

---------- Post added at 19:09 ---------- Previous post was at 19:09 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35885685)
Well you offered two point that I responded to.

Point one that

My response

The actual judgement from the Circuit Nine Court advised

So the administration didn't provide any evidence at all, they just argued that the County court shouldn't be able to overturn the EO.

So that test about the level of detriment/ threat hasn't been done.

Your second point was

my response

The actual judgement from the Circuit Nine Court says

So they advise that the administration are unlikely to win an appeal in regards to the "due process" part of the claim. They note the allegation of religious discrimination but that is not why the appeal was not upheld

So in reality the Court (singular) didn't disagree with me on anything.

I'm surprised you've made this mistake as you're usually so very well informed.

If you want to digest the courts ruling you can here:

http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...9/17-35105.pdf
see above

passingbat 14-02-2017 19:14
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35885757)
It was a Muslim ban from the specified countries because it gave priority to Christians

You mean the specific group of people that ISIS are targeting to Kill (in barbaric ways).

martyh 14-02-2017 19:17
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35885760)
You mean the specific group of people that ISIS are targeting to Kill (in barbaric ways).
and what about the Muslims that ISIS are targeting to kill(in barbaric ways)


You may (or may not ) be surprised to learn that US counter Terrorist Center ( the ones that tell Trump who's dangerous or not ) reported in 2009 that

Quote:
According to a 2009 report published by the Counter Terrorism Center at the United States Military Academy at West Point, Al-Qaeda kills over seven times more Muslims than non-Muslims.

State Department commented:

Quote:
NCTC [i.e. the National Counterterrorism Center] maintains its statistical information on the U.S. government’s authoritative and unclassified database on terrorist acts, the Worldwide Incidents Tracking System (WITS).

***

Muslims continued to bear the brunt of terrorism ….

In cases where the religious affiliation of terrorism casualties could be determined, Muslims suffered between 82 and 97 percent of terrorism-related fatalities over the past five years.
Muslim majority countries bore the greatest number of attacks involving 10 or more deaths ….
Quote:
The UN reported last year that Muslims are the largest victims of ISIS in Iraq.

In 2013, the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism’s Global Terrorism Database – joint government-university program on terrorism, hosted at the University of Maryland noted that between 2004 and 2013, about half of all terrorist attacks, and 60% of fatalities due to terrorist attacks, took place in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan – all of which have a mostly Muslim population:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/muslims...rnment/5516565

passingbat 14-02-2017 19:31
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35885761)
and what about the Muslims that ISIS are targeting to kill(in barbaric ways)

I agree; I've stated several times that any religious persecution is wrong and that if there were a group of radical Christians killing people, they should also be subject to a temporary ban until secure vetting procedures can be put in place.

martyh 14-02-2017 19:40
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35885765)
I agree; I've stated several times that any religious persecution is wrong and that if there were a group of radical Christians killing people, they should also be subject to a temporary ban until secure vetting procedures can be put in place.
Well the vetting procedure that Obama put in place seems to be working because no one from any of those countries has committed a terrorist act ,so why did Trump see the need to ban everyone from those countries but give special dispensation to minority religions (making it in practice a Muslim ban).

passingbat 14-02-2017 19:45
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35885768)
Well the vetting procedure that Obama put in place seems to be working because no one from any of those countries has committed a terrorist act ,so why did Trump see the need to ban everyone from those countries but give special dispensation to minority religions (making it in practice a Muslim ban).

Because the Obama Administration identified these seven countries as needing more travel restrictions. The fact that Obama didn't implement them says more about Obama. Have you never heard of 'Sleepers"?

1andrew1 14-02-2017 19:58
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35885768)
Well the vetting procedure that Obama put in place seems to be working because no one from any of those countries has committed a terrorist act ,so why did Trump see the need to ban everyone from those countries but give special dispensation to minority religions (making it in practice a Muslim ban).
As long as his supporters see him trying to do the right thing by trying to get the ban in place, he'll be happy. The courts' decisions against him may also help him reinforce his anti-establishment image, which again will go down well with his supporters. It's all about the perceptions of voters and not any threats for as you say, the vetting procedures have worked well.

---------- Post added at 19:58 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

Google headline to read full article or subscribers can use link below

Pressure builds for probe into Trump-Russia ties
The White House is facing mounting pressure to explain the relationship between President Donald Trump and the Kremlin, after Michael Flynn was fired as national security adviser following claims that he may have illegally discussed sanctions with Russia’s ambassador to Washington.
The abrupt ousting of Mr Flynn after 24 days in the White House role has intensified the focus on the Trump administration’s ties to Russia and made it impossible for the White House to convince sceptics that all is smooth inside the West Wing.
https://www.ft.com/content/d9c46b52-...8-6876151821a6

martyh 14-02-2017 20:01
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35885775)
Because the Obama Administration identified these seven countries as needing more travel restrictions. The fact that Obama didn't implement them says more about Obama. Have you never heard of 'Sleepers"?
Yes he did ,it passed through congress in 2015 407 to 19 ,it is called

Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015.

Trump decided to take something that was already working and make it not work

Damien 14-02-2017 20:02
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
The Flynn stuff seems to be gaining traction. Lots of reports now that the White House knew of the contacts weeks ago but not the VP.

martyh 14-02-2017 20:11
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35885779)
As long as his supporters see him trying to do the right thing by trying to get the ban in place, he'll be happy. The courts' decisions against him may also help him reinforce his anti-establishment image, which again will go down well with his supporters. It's all about the perceptions of voters and not any threats for as you say, the vetting procedures have worked well.

---------- Post added at 19:58 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

Google headline to read full article or subscribers can use link below

Pressure builds for probe into Trump-Russia ties
The White House is facing mounting pressure to explain the relationship between President Donald Trump and the Kremlin, after Michael Flynn was fired as national security adviser following claims that he may have illegally discussed sanctions with Russia’s ambassador to Washington.
The abrupt ousting of Mr Flynn after 24 days in the White House role has intensified the focus on the Trump administration’s ties to Russia and made it impossible for the White House to convince sceptics that all is smooth inside the West Wing.
https://www.ft.com/content/d9c46b52-...8-6876151821a6
Trump is far too good a business man to have not known anything about the people he hires

This from Trump via twit machine

Quote:
The real story here is why are there so many illegal leaks coming out of Washington? Will these leaks be happening as I deal on N.Korea etc?
So obviously the way to go when your best bud has caught lying and doing dodgy stuff is go on the offensive and blame the people who uncovered the truth.

---------- Post added at 20:11 ---------- Previous post was at 20:09 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35885786)
The Flynn stuff seems to be gaining traction. Lots of reports now that the White House knew of the contacts weeks ago but not the VP.
Nah it's all fake news and "illegal leaks" :D

Mick 14-02-2017 20:47
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35885757)
Yes because Trumps Muslim ban was thrown out of court and denied ,had the judges agreed with it he would have won ,even you should be able to understand that simple piece of logic.You can be as pedantic as you like Mick pretending that because one judge initially allowed it "so not ALL the courts disagreed at all":rolleyes:(but the rest banned the ban)that just makes you look ridiculous ,you need to accept that he was wrong ,the judges said he was wrong ,you need to accept it .No doubt you will come up with more reasons why you are right and the USA's judiciary are wrong because your armchair degree is better than mine but i really can't be arsed with you and your ilk any more so i'll leave you to come up with more ways to be wrong
I never questioned the judiciary result, I was merely highlighting your blanket statement that 'All Courts' disagreed with Pierre, was inaccurate. Thus, I'm not wrong, so you will not be leaving me or my ilk at all. You made an incorrect assertion and I corrected you, like I have many times over. Get over it. :rolleyes:

Pierre 14-02-2017 22:00
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35885757)
Yes because Trumps Muslim ban was thrown out of court and denied
No it wasn't. Trumps attempt to lift the ban on his temporary travel restriction order was denied. Muslims weren't mentioned


Quote:
the judges said he was wrong ,you need to accept it
But nothing to do with muslims, it was because due process was not applied to nationals with rights to enter the US, they even went out of their way to say that it was nothing to do with muslims.


Quote:
see above
No because you continue to prove that you do not have a clue about what the original EO was about, and what the subsequent court hearings and rulings are.

You're ignorant, bottom line.

Just continue to sit there with you fingers in your ears shouting " Muslim ban" like a five year old.

---------- Post added at 22:00 ---------- Previous post was at 21:57 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35885768)
Well the vetting procedure that Obama put in place seems to be working because no one from any of those countries has committed a terrorist act
How many have tried and failed?

pip08456 14-02-2017 22:40
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
I'm still trying to get my head around why it's a ban on travel.

As I understand it it's just a suspension for 9 months whilst the administration of the country gets reports from the agentcies involved in the vetting to ensure the correct procedures are in place and any changes to said vetting to be implemented.

That sounds like a country that has control of it's borders.

We hear that ISIS is being pushed back in certain areas. Where are they going to go join the refugee stream? The only other option is to back them into a corner and kill them all!

Europe has and is suffering due to ISIS connected terrorism, why should America also leave itself open to it?

EnglishMan 14-02-2017 22:46
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35885831)
I'm still trying to get my head around why it's a ban on travel.

As I understand it it's just a suspension for 9 months whilst the administration of the country gets reports from the agentcies involved in the vetting to ensure the correct procedures are in place and any changes to said vetting to be implemented.

That sounds like a country that has control of it's borders.

We hear that ISIS is being pushed back in certain areas. Where are they going to go join the refugee stream? The only other option is to back them into a corner and kill them all!

Europe has and is suffering due to ISIS connected terrorism, why should America also leave itself open to it?
How many people live in the country's effected by Trumps ban? How many ISIS terrorists have carried out attacks within the EU? Do the sums and let us know if you think its a fare "policy"! Unless you're so small minded you think every person in those 7 country's is a potential terrorist? Is every Irish man IRA? Is every Spaniard ETA? ect ect? No travel bans for those country's////

1andrew1 14-02-2017 23:17
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35885786)
The Flynn stuff seems to be gaining traction. Lots of reports now that the White House knew of the contacts weeks ago but not the VP.
It's now being widely reported that Trump's spokesman has admitted that Donald Trump knew two weeks before dismissing Michael Flynn that he had misled senior officials over phone conversations with the Russian ambassador.

pip08456 14-02-2017 23:19
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
And we know this is true because...

Note, I'm not saying it isn't.

TheDaddy 15-02-2017 09:20
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
The man is obsessed by size, the size of his vote, the size of his desk, of all the things to get 'upset' about and he chooses the small desk :spin:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...-a7580821.html

Pierre 15-02-2017 09:20
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35885786)
The Flynn stuff seems to be gaining traction. Lots of reports now that the White House knew of the contacts weeks ago but not the VP.
it all seems to be kicking off, but it's not really that big a deal. What he did was outside of protocol but you would have to be naïve to think that potential incoming administrations don't speak to representatives of other governments.

As expected the democrats are trying to implicate this as a connection with the alleged Russian hacking, as some kind of tit for tat deal along the lines of "you help us get elected and we'll op sanctions" Which is bollocks, the so called hacking of Clinton had no real effect on the outcome of the election anyway.

The person most angry would be Mike Pence, as he went out an defended Flynn when Flynn and Trump knew he done it.

Damien 15-02-2017 09:35
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
I think it depends on what happens next. There will be many questions such as did anyone tell Flynn to phone them? It also depends on if the GOP can continue to resist calls for an investigation, more of them are splitting on the issue.

If this were or becomes an isolated issue it would die down. If it keeps developing then who knows.

tweetiepooh 15-02-2017 09:41
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
ISIS kill more Muslims than non. No big surprise as the areas they "work" in are Muslim majority. Blow up Wembly Stadium during a soccer match - you kill more soccer fans than soccer haters.

1andrew1 15-02-2017 11:54
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35885872)
Which is bollocks, the so called hacking of Clinton had no real effect on the outcome of the election anyway.
I doubt there's conclusive evidence either way on this but the Russians aren't stupid so must have believed it worthwhile.

nomadking 15-02-2017 12:08
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Are we seriously expected to believe that any dodgy communication would occur in such a relatively open and discoverable manner? At the very least, any Russian involvement would insist on more hidden methods.

Hugh 15-02-2017 12:52
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35885914)
Are we seriously expected to believe that any dodgy communication would occur in such a relatively open and discoverable manner? At the very least, any Russian involvement would insist on more hidden methods.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/13/u...ael-flynn.html
Quote:
The White House had examined a transcript of a wiretapped conversation that Mr. Flynn had with Mr. Kislyak in December, according to administration officials. Mr. Flynn originally told Mr. Pence and others that the call was limited to small talk and holiday pleasantries.

But the conversation, according to officials who saw the transcript of the wiretap, also included a discussion about sanctions imposed on Russia after intelligence agencies determined that President Vladimir V. Putin’s government tried to interfere with the 2016 election on Mr. Trump’s behalf. Still, current and former administration officials familiar with the call said the transcript was ambiguous enough that Mr. Trump could have justified either firing or retaining Mr. Flynn.

Damien 15-02-2017 13:53
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
NYTimes reporting sources claiming Trump's campaign aides had contact with Russian Intelligence: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/u...T.nav=top-news

They're not claiming that there is yet evidence they were talking about the election though.

nomadking 15-02-2017 14:31
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
It was Hillary that had the secretive communication system. It was the Democrats that went around interfering with election matters.

Hugh 15-02-2017 16:48
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35885935)
It was Hillary that had the secretive communication system. It was the Democrats that went around interfering with election matters.
http://europe.newsweek.com/trump-ema...r-548191?rm=eu
Quote:
Now, Newsweek reports that Trump’s own senior staff is doing something similar by utilizing an RNC-operated email server for at least some of their communications. According to the report, senior staffers Kellyanne Conway, Jared Kushner, Sean Spicer and Steve Bannon all have “active accounts” on the service, which is not under the government’s purview.

Stuart 15-02-2017 18:11
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
It's worth noting that in addition to that, the Bush administration "lost" 22 million emails, and that administration refused to comply with a congressional subpoena ..

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/09/23/g...ls-497373.html

The one difference between them and the Democrats is that the head of the FBI did not go out of his way to torpedo Bush's chances in an election.

Mick 15-02-2017 20:26
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart (Post 35885963)

The one difference between them and the Democrats is that the head of the FBI did not go out of his way to torpedo Bush's chances in an election.
I think lots of Americans had made up their mind way before the FBI announced they had re-opened an investigation, a few weeks before November 8th. I am not saying it had no impact at all but to say it had a big influence, i.e 'torpedo' as you put it, is ludicrous.

You are forgetting Trump was at mercy of his own scandals thrown his way during the campaigns and he survived them all, the left leaning media was completely against him, the 'Pussygate' tape that got released, all them women who came forward just after the tapes release, claiming he had touched them inappropriately, all these things should have put off a lot of women voting for Trump, but it didn't.

Quote:
The real 'shy Trump' vote - how 53% of white women pushed him to victory

Early data suggest a clear majority of white women voted Republican, and supporters say Trump’s offensive remarks didn’t affect their decision

For months, the image of the Donald Trump’s supporter has been the face of an angry white man. But it was white women who pushed Trump to victory.

Rejecting the candidate who had aimed to be America’s first female president, 53% of white women voted for Trump, according to CNN exit polls.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-trump-victory

adzii_nufc 15-02-2017 22:31
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart (Post 35885963)
It's worth noting that in addition to that, the Bush administration "lost" 22 million emails, and that administration refused to comply with a congressional subpoena ..

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/09/23/g...ls-497373.html

The one difference between them and the Democrats is that the head of the FBI did not go out of his way to torpedo Bush's chances in an election.
Can't remember them complaining when he dished out immunity to the only person capable of implicating Clinton of any wrongdoing. The guy that was destroyed by the oversight committee for clearly botching the initial investigation and had no actual answers as to why he did it. Good guy Comey, now he's just casually recording phone calls illegally. The guy shouldn't even be employed.

He botches the initial op - Gets absolutely grilled by the oversight and responds with desperate and embarrassing answers like a school kid being told off.

He re-opens it for no apparent reason. - November

He's now recording phone calls without a warrant.

To have a job after that is quite an amazing feat.

Stuart 15-02-2017 23:20
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35885993)
I think lots of Americans had made up their mind way before the FBI announced they had re-opened an investigation, a few weeks before November 8th. I am not saying it had no impact at all but to say it had a big influence, i.e 'torpedo' as you put it, is ludicrous.

You are forgetting Trump was at mercy of his own scandals thrown his way during the campaigns and he survived them all, the left leaning media was completely against him, the 'Pussygate' tape that got released, all them women who came forward just after the tapes release, claiming he had touched them inappropriately, all these things should have put off a lot of women voting for Trump, but it didn't.
Maybe I did overstate it, but I'm not sure the media in the US is left wing as you think.

1andrew1 15-02-2017 23:44
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart (Post 35886022)
Maybe I did overstate it, but I'm not sure the media in the US is left wing as you think.
The media in the US is not left-leaning as you and I would understand the term. But I guess compared to Breitbart and Fox News, publications like the New York Times would be.

Damien 16-02-2017 06:40
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by adzii_nufc (Post 35886018)
He's now recording phone calls without a warrant.
It would have been the intelligence services who'll have recorded the phone call and IIRC it's common practise to monitor communications with foreign diplomats/politicians.

Flynn has only himself to blame for that.

As for the FBI the question would be why did they make public pronouncements about their investigation into Clinton over the use of a private e-mail server and not about their investigation into Trump's aides contacting Russian intelligence?

Besides given Trump's actions so far which includes his hiring and subsequent ways of handling Flynn, having a national security meeting in the open at this golf course, and the aforementioned use of using the RNC e-mail servers I am not convinced this was ever really about Clinton's e-mails.

adzii_nufc 16-02-2017 20:56
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35886032)
It would have been the intelligence services who'll have recorded the phone call and IIRC it's common practise to monitor communications with foreign diplomats/politicians.

Flynn has only himself to blame for that.

As for the FBI the question would be why did they make public pronouncements about their investigation into Clinton over the use of a private e-mail server and not about their investigation into Trump's aides contacting Russian intelligence?

Besides given Trump's actions so far which includes his hiring and subsequent ways of handling Flynn, having a national security meeting in the open at this golf course, and the aforementioned use of using the RNC e-mail servers I am not convinced this was ever really about Clinton's e-mails.
Because nobody knows what the guy is doing, as I pointed out above, it's all a mess, James Comey is a disaster. - https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...rse-and-worse/

My argument was there were absolutely no complaints from Democrats when Comey was botching an investigation that went in their favor. I'm merely pointing out that it's funny that it doesn't quite appear on the list of wrong doings everyone's calling him out on. Of course though, it wouldn't suit the anti-trump agenda.

I'd rather call it how it is, from both sides. forget both parties and just acknowledge that this guy is an absolute train wreck.

I still truly believe he was pressured into taking a swipe at Clinton's campaign after Trump clearly took a shot at him over the Paul Combetta grilling he got, with Trump suggesting Comey would be the first in his firing line when elected. It's too laughable that the FBI suddenly find nothing worth noting but need to make the front page over it. Sure it's a conspiracy but is it that far fetched.

All in all, I'm not fighting for or against, I just think when a guy's under fire, call him out on everything he did wrong and not just the times he wronged your agenda.

Wikileaks are at it again: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/wikileaks-r...ection-1607011 Supposedly a primer leak for a bunch of CIA election related leaks incoming.

After all the fuss about sticking noses in elections. I can't differentiate between America and Russia sometimes. It's all fair game until it happens to them, upon which it's an outrage. Bare in mind they're yet to prove it even happened. I'm certain Russians have hacked the US and I'm certain the US have done it plenty of times too.

Damien 16-02-2017 21:18
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Wikileaks are gearing up to go after Macron and Fillon. He has said as much.

adzii_nufc 16-02-2017 21:20
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
There's a possibility they have something relating to the CIA directly interfering in an election whilst under the Obama Administration, at least that's what is claimed but in fairness, what's the surprise? I think we're all fairly certain they've done it before Obama and will continue to do it after. :erm:

Is anyone ever surprised by what the CIA do or have done anymore?

From the 4th of February, Wikileaks started tweeting cryptic messages about Vault 7. Remembering their last 'bombshell' was a load of horse crap.

Damien 16-02-2017 21:31
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by adzii_nufc (Post 35886168)
There's a possibility they have something relating to the CIA directly interfering in an election whilst under the Obama Administration, at leas that's what is claimed but in fairness, what's the surprise? I think we're all fairly certain they've done it before Obama and will continue to do it after. :erm:
Wikileaks claim a lot of things they don't deliver on. I say 'they' but it's the bail-jumper hiding in the embassy really.

I don't doubt the CIA seek to get information on possible world leaders for the same reason the NSA would know who in the United States are contacting people of prominence in Russian politics. They more than likely want to influence elections too although I highly doubt they would do so to an ally such as France, the political cost is far too high for meagre gains.

Assange can keep tweeting stuff that continues to get attention. I am sure when he has stuff on Macron, who just happens to be the most pro-NATO of the candidates in the French election, he'll release it.

I wonder if he'll ever honour his promise to give himself up if Manning is pardoned? :scratch:

Hugh 16-02-2017 22:23
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Well, that clears that up...

Quote:
You know what uranium is, right? It's a thing called nuclear weapons and other things. Like lots of things are done with uranium, including some bad things.

adzii_nufc 16-02-2017 22:58
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35886171)
Wikileaks claim a lot of things they don't deliver on. I say 'they' but it's the bail-jumper hiding in the embassy really.

I don't doubt the CIA seek to get information on possible world leaders for the same reason the NSA would know who in the United States are contacting people of prominence in Russian politics. They more than likely want to influence elections too although I highly doubt they would do so to an ally such as France, the political cost is far too high for meagre gains.

Assange can keep tweeting stuff that continues to get attention. I am sure when he has stuff on Macron, who just happens to be the most pro-NATO of the candidates in the French election, he'll release it.

I wonder if he'll ever honour his promise to give himself up if Manning is pardoned? :scratch:
Don't be silly now. There's just something about Assange I don't like. He comes off sly imo.

---------- Post added at 22:58 ---------- Previous post was at 22:49 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35886186)
Well, that clears that up...
Just jumbled facts, he was right and wrong. Clinton oversaw a deal to sell Russia Uranium via a Canadian corp, he skewed the amount however. It was merely 20% of a capacity in storage and not 20% of the entire US stockpile. Which of course would be a huge difference. So it'd be important to quote the right numbers, which he didn't. It's also worth noting that exchanges with Russia with regards to said materials had been occurring long before the Obama administration.

Which is all a silly argument when you consider Obama botched a treaty with the Russians which was a UN agreement to dismantle and rid themselves of the chemicals used in Nuclear weaponry. The US backed out and kept theirs and then blamed Russia with a media campaign claiming they were set to start a second cold war. They then want to oversee deals to sell materials from Canada to Russia... to reset relations. He wanted to continue trading materials after deliberately messing up a UN deal with them.

Then the guy that loves Russia wants to complain about it.

I mean really :confused: It's next level poo throwing.

It works too, people genuinely now believe Clinton sold 20% of the US stockpile in Uranium to Russia, and he's saying there's fake news everywhere.

passingbat 16-02-2017 23:58
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
I really enjoyed today's press conference. 59 minutes in shows that Trump has got the BBC's bias sussed out.

President Trump Full Press Conference 2/16/17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaYRi6pPDXI

Mr Banana 17-02-2017 07:38
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35886193)
I really enjoyed today's press conference. 59 minutes in shows that Trump has got the BBC's bias sussed out.

President Trump Full Press Conference 2/16/17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaYRi6pPDXI
I really didn't enjoy it, it scares me that someone with an ego like his, is running a country.

He does nothing other than to say I'm right, you are wrong and if anyone says He is wrong, it's fake news.

Absolute turd in my opinion.

TheDaddy 17-02-2017 07:58
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35886198)
I really didn't enjoy it, it scares me that someone with an ego like his, is running a country.

He does nothing other than to say I'm right, you are wrong and if anyone says He is wrong, it's fake news.

Absolute turd in my opinion.
Notice how it's never fake news when it praises him or agrees with him

Damien 17-02-2017 08:36
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
People should just keep calling him out when he lies. A good moment at that press conference above is when a reporter challenges him on the claim that he had the largest electoral college victory since Reagan: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7584481.html

Now people will say that it's a waste of time. His supporters will claim it's FAKE NEWS and Trump did win the biggest electoral college just as 'he won the popular vote' but those people will never be reached anyway, trying to please them is a waste of time. Everyone else can see from just a cursory glance it's a lie.

passingbat 17-02-2017 08:51
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
The problem is, almost everyone in the UK seems to be looking at the man rather than his policies, many of which make sense.


Standing up against globalisation and supporting the Sovereign State.


Bringing industry and jobs back to the US, which the globalists outsourced to other countries to take advantage of cheap labour.


Strong borders, which are so needed in these days of radical Islam, and not being afraid to stand up to the politically correct brigade.


Trying to get something done about inner cities, which seems to be being hampered by the Democrats according to the section on that in the speech yesterday.


Trying to get rid of the 'money for access' situation which has been out of control for years in US politics; draining the swamp.


Choosing a supreme court judge who believes in the constitution, rather than an ultra Liberal judge that Hillary would have appointed.


Also his intentions seem to be to stand for traditional moral standards, rather than the politically correct very liberal path that Obama took the US down, and Hillary would have taken further.


And it is essential for the US, to have a President who strongly backs Israel; Obama failed on that, and Hillary would have been the same.


No one denies that Trump is an egotist and, like all of us, has many character flaws, but to me, it is like a breath of fresh air to have a politician who tells it like he sees it.

---------- Post added at 08:51 ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35886204)
People should just keep calling him out when he lies. A good moment at that press conference above is when a reporter challenges him on the claim that he had the largest electoral college victory since Reagan: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7584481.html

Now people will say that it's a waste of time. His supporters will claim it's FAKE NEWS and Trump did win the biggest electoral college just as 'he won the popular vote' but those people will never be reached anyway, trying to please them is a waste of time. Everyone else can see from just a cursory glance it's a lie.

Don't disagree; if he gets something wrong he should be called out on it. He did say several times in the speech that he has no issues with that

Kursk 17-02-2017 09:40
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35886206)
The problem is, almost everyone in the UK seems to be looking at the man rather than his policies, many of which make sense
Exactly right, fuelled by the useless and biased BBC.

Change is never easy, we know that from our brexit experience. The knives are out for President Trump and I hope he continues to bite back.

1andrew1 17-02-2017 10:10
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
"like a well-oiled machine"

Trump's pick for national security adviser turns down offer: White House official
Quote:
President Donald Trump's choice for national security adviser, retired Vice Admiral Robert Harward, has turned down the offer, a senior White House official said on Thursday.
Harward was offered the job after Michael Flynn was fired by Trump on Monday for misleading Vice President Mike Pence over his conversations with Russia's ambassador to the United States.
The White House official said Harward cited family and financial reasons for opting not to take the job. Harward is a senior executive at Lockheed Martin.
Two sources familiar with the decision said Harward turned down the job in part because he wanted to bring in his own team.
That put him at odds with Trump, who had told Flynn's deputy, K.T. McFarland, that she could stay.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN15V2Z7

Mick 17-02-2017 10:17
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35886214)
Exactly right, fuelled by the useless and biased BBC.
"There's another beauty."

He got that right.

1andrew1 17-02-2017 10:33
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35886214)
Exactly right, fuelled by the useless and biased BBC.

Change is never easy, we know that from our brexit experience. The knives are out for President Trump and I hope he continues to bite back.
Like Jeremy Corbyn, regardless of whether you their policies or not, both he and Donald Trump look like poor leaders. Corbyn's Article 50 strife is mirrored by Trump's failure to appoint his staff and to successfully implement the travel ban. But at least Trump looks like he's trying.

Mick 17-02-2017 10:47
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35886225)
Like Jeremy Corbyn, regardless of whether you their policies or not, both he and Donald Trump look like poor leaders. Corbyn's Article 50 strife is mirrored by Trump's failure to appoint his staff and to successfully implement the travel ban. But at least Trump looks like he's trying.
Bad analogy to compare two people of which one is unelectable and the other got elected.

1andrew1 17-02-2017 11:01
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35886235)
Bad analogy to compare two people of which one is unelectable and the other got elected.
Both are elected party leaders struggling to do their jobs.

Pierre 17-02-2017 11:55
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35886239)
Both are elected party leaders struggling to do their jobs.
One is the leader of the powerful country in the world

One is the leader of a dysfunctional party that currently doesn't know its arse from its elbow.

Mick 17-02-2017 11:57
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35886239)
Both are elected party leaders struggling to do their jobs.
Nice misconception there, Trump is an elected Head of State, Leader of a Country, voted in by millions, Corbyn is just an elected leader of a party by a few hundred thousand party activists and Labour supporters, big big difference.

Being a liberal and Anti-Trump you're bound to say Trump is struggling, I have seen no evidence of any such thing, he is doing practically everything he said he was that got him elected. I wouldn't call that struggling.

Corbyn's struggles are, that he is deeply unpopular with core Labour Supporters who can no longer support the party with him as the leader, Trump's supporters seem to be very very happy, hence why I feel comparing them as the same is very absurd.

This business of some people being outraged at his Press conference yesterday, so bloody what, that was the Trump I saw, all during the campaign trail. That conference was for his supporters, he is feeding his supporters and they are loving it regardless if he says a few things that are not factually correct, they don't care.

I believe he is holding a massive rally in Florida over the weekend, that will probably be packed to the rafters.

1andrew1 17-02-2017 12:35
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35886258)
Nice misconception there, Trump is an elected Head of State, Leader of a Country, voted in by millions, Corbyn is just an elected leader of a party by a few hundred thousand party activists and Labour supporters, big big difference.

Being a liberal and Anti-Trump you're bound to say Trump is struggling, I have seen no evidence of any such thing, he is doing practically everything he said he was that got him elected. I wouldn't call that struggling.

Corbyn's struggles are, that he is deeply unpopular with core Labour Supporters who can no longer support the party with him as the leader, Trump's supporters seem to be very very happy, hence why I feel comparing them as the same is very absurd.

This business of some people being outraged at his Press conference yesterday, so bloody what, that was the Trump I saw, all during the campaign trail. That conference was for his supporters, he is feeding his supporters and they are loving it regardless if he says a few things that are not factually correct, they don't care.

I believe he is holding a massive rally in Florida over the weekend, that will probably be packed to the rafters.
What I'm comparing the two on is delivery and cohesion. Both are lacking in this respect. We've seen Trump's travel ban fail, we've seen national security adviser Michael Flynn being forced to resign over cosy chats with the Russians before gaining power, we've seen the uncertainty over whether his son-in-law can take a position in Government amongst many other travails.
As I said, Trump seems to be trying harder than Corbyn but that doesn't make him effective.
By contrast to Corbyn and Trump, I would cite Theresa May as an effective leader in delivery and cohesion.

Mr Banana 17-02-2017 12:57
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
An alternative view of what Trump has done to date.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...-has-done.html

passingbat 17-02-2017 13:01
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35886258)
Nice misconception there, Trump is an elected Head of State, Leader of a Country, voted in by millions, Corbyn is just an elected leader of a party by a few hundred thousand party activists and Labour supporters, big big difference.

Being a liberal and Anti-Trump you're bound to say Trump is struggling, I have seen no evidence of any such thing, he is doing practically everything he said he was that got him elected. I wouldn't call that struggling.

Corbyn's struggles are, that he is deeply unpopular with core Labour Supporters who can no longer support the party with him as the leader, Trump's supporters seem to be very very happy, hence why I feel comparing them as the same is very absurd.

This business of some people being outraged at his Press conference yesterday, so bloody what, that was the Trump I saw, all during the campaign trail. That conference was for his supporters, he is feeding his supporters and they are loving it regardless if he says a few things that are not factually correct, they don't care.

I believe he is holding a massive rally in Florida over the weekend, that will probably be packed to the rafters.

The force behind the anti trump and anti Brexit is globalism. Now, globalists are not going to come and say, "Were globalists and are anti Trump and anti Brexit because they still believe in Sovereign Nations". No, they know people would laugh at them. So they keep quiet about their true aims, and use whatever means they can to discredit both Trump and Brexit in the eyes of the public. They are ably helped in their deception by the liberal leaning press.


Trump and Brexit have really upset the NWO elitists, and they're fighting back with everything they can think of.


It's time the globalist NWO supporters fessed up and admitted exactly where they are coming from.

Stephen 17-02-2017 13:10
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
What on earth was that press conference all about??

It was embarassing to watch but also highly entertaining.

Hugh 17-02-2017 13:17
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
So the leaks were real (which means what was leaked was true), but the reporting of them was fake....

Interesting viewpoint....

---------- Post added at 13:17 ---------- Previous post was at 13:12 ----------

People may find this of interest...

https://www.ft.com/content/dec677c0-...5-95d1533d9a62
Quote:
The US did indeed lose about 5.6m manufacturing jobs between 2000 and 2010. But according to a study by the Center for Business and Economic Research at Ball State University, 85 per cent of these jobs losses are actually attributable to technological change — largely automation — rather than international trade.

The think-tank found that although there has been a steep decline in factory jobs, the manufacturing sector has become more productive and industrial output has been growing.

“Simply put, we are producing more with fewer people,” notes Mireya Solís, a senior fellow at Brookings.

US factories have been achieving this by gradually replacing human labour with robots.

“Automation has transformed the American factory, rendering millions of low-skilled jobs redundant. Fast-spreading technologies like robotics and 3D printing will exacerbate this trend,” says Ms Solís.

The Boston Consulting Group has estimated that while “a human welder today earns around $25 per hour, including benefits, the equivalent operating cost per hour for a robot is around $8”.
While some jobs have been lost to shifting to overseas production, a larger number have been lost to automation = those jobs aren't coming back.

passingbat 17-02-2017 13:44
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35886261)
What I'm comparing the two on is delivery and cohesion. Both are lacking in this respect. We've seen Trump's travel ban fail, we've seen national security adviser Michael Flynn being forced to resign over cosy chats with the Russians before gaining power, we've seen the uncertainty over whether his son-in-law can take a position in Government amongst many other travails.
As I said, Trump seems to be trying harder than Corbyn but that doesn't make him effective.
By contrast to Corbyn and Trump, I would cite Theresa May as an effective leader in delivery and cohesion.

What about the success he has had, within just a few weeks to bring back major industries to the US who were planning to build outside the US?


What about the successful meeting with the Unions, who were shocked an flabbergasted that a President wanted to meet with them to hear their views?


Or the meeting with Educators, of all institutions to get their views on how to improve education opportunities for all.


The meeting with female business leaders.


And from yesterday's speech, he has been trying to get in touch with Black Community Leaders to discuss the inner cities, but has been blocked by pressure from the democrats on such people not to meet with him. I hope the lady reporter that was involved in this manages to get something set up; Trump clearly was keen for her to do so.


All this info is available via Youtube from the Whitehouse, along with daily press briefings including Q&A. You can then compare and contrast with the BBC coverage.

Damien 17-02-2017 14:12
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35886271)
What about the success he has had, within just a few weeks to bring back major industries to the US who were planning to build outside the US?


What about the successful meeting with the Unions, who were shocked an flabbergasted that a President wanted to meet with them to hear their views?


Or the meeting with Educators, of all institutions to get their views on how to improve education opportunities for all.


The meeting with female business leaders.


And from yesterday's speech, he has been trying to get in touch with Black Community Leaders to discuss the inner cities, but has been blocked by pressure from the democrats on such people not to meet with him. I hope the lady reporter that was involved in this manages to get something set up; Trump clearly was keen for her to do so.


All this info is available via Youtube from the Whitehouse, along with daily press briefings including Q&A. You can then compare and contrast with the BBC coverage.
Plenty of people have had meetings. It's results that matter. Also it's absurd to contract the BBC with the official line of the White House.

1andrew1 17-02-2017 14:16
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35886271)
What about the success he has had, within just a few weeks to bring back major industries to the US who were planning to build outside the US?
Most of those announcements were simply re-announcements of existing plans but I give him credit for Ford which he wrong-footed. As for GM and the others, Trump knows these were re-announcements but was more than happy for the re-announcements to be made as he knows his supporters won't work this out and it suits his image. Everyone wins, what's not to like?

Quote:
Financial Times
PR executives pointed to how General Motors dealt with a January 3 tweet in which Mr Trump threatened to slap a “big border tax” on the carmaker if it continued to import vehicles manufactured in Mexico.
Soon after, GM announced it would relocate part of its Mexican production to the US and pledged to invest $1bn in the US, safeguarding 1,500 jobs. Mr Trump immediately hailed the move as a big win. In reality, the carmaker had already been shifting work from Mexico to the US for some time.
“They repackaged old news,” said one PR executive. “There is nothing wrong with that and Trump thanked them for it.”

Walmart, which employs more Americans than any other private company, recently said it would add 10,000 jobs this year — a result of planned store openings and expansions first announced in 2016. The retailer was rewarded with an upbeat tweet from Mr Trump.
https://www.ft.com/content/b3a3c99c-...5-9e5580d6e5fb

Google: Corporate America employs new tactics to avoid Trump ire

passingbat 17-02-2017 15:01
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35886275)
Most of those announcements were simply re-announcements of existing plans but I give him credit for Ford which he wrong-footed. As for GM and the others, Trump knows these were re-announcements but was more than happy for the re-announcements to be made as he knows his supporters won't work this out and it suits his image. Everyone wins, what's not to like?


https://www.ft.com/content/b3a3c99c-...5-9e5580d6e5fb

Google: Corporate America employs new tactics to avoid Trump ire

If that is the case, why didn't it happen under the early years of Obama?

Damien 17-02-2017 15:10
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35886281)
If that is the case, why didn't it happen under the early years of Obama?
Obama created a lot of jobs: http://www.npr.org/2017/01/07/508600...en-in-8-charts

However he did come into an immediate and drastic recession when he arrived. Despite what some will claim on here the 2008 recession wasn't his fault (Lehman collapsed in September 2008, Obama won in November 2008 and took office early 2009).

1andrew1 17-02-2017 15:14
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35886281)
If that is the case, why didn't it happen under the early years of Obama?
Companies have specifically reacted to Trump's tweets attacking either them or similar companies to them. Obama did not attack companies by Twitter.

passingbat 17-02-2017 15:26
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35886273)
Plenty of people have had meetings. It's results that matter. Also it's absurd to contract the BBC with the official line of the White House.

No one is suggesting that they do. But all most people see is the BBC's analysis. People, if serious about this, should get the official report direct from the source (including reporters questions) then listen to the BBC and make up their own mind.


I don't know if the BBC aired the part where Trump spoke to the reporter about black community leaders and his keenness to speak to them but was being prevented by Democrat interference. If they didn't, the BBC should have, because they are constantly inferring that he is racist.

---------- Post added at 15:26 ---------- Previous post was at 15:15 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35886285)
Companies have specifically reacted to Trump's tweets attacking either them or similar companies to them. Obama did not attack companies by Twitter.

Well maybe Obama should have done. In reality, it was more to do with Obama's globalist tendencies; he was an attendee of Bilderberg Meetings, along with David Cameron and George Osbourne, to name just a few.



You can look at it how you like, but it will actually be done in reality under Trump's watch, not Obama's.

Mick 17-02-2017 15:30
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35886285)
Companies have specifically reacted to Trump's tweets attacking either them or similar companies to them. Obama did not attack companies by Twitter.
No because he was a dull, soft and boring President.

Again, with you not following the program, with your liberal stance. Trump uses Twitter, certainly to bash and the fact he is still doing it as the President is unprecedented, but he is doing it to get the message out to his supporters, he has said, he don't need the left-leaning, dishonst biased media, he says he has a bigger far reaching audience via twitter with 25 million followers, of which has doubled since he became President, so he must be doing something right to attract so much interest in his tweeting activities and what's more, as he tweets, most of his messages get read out across the news networks anyway, netting free publicity, in to the bargain.

1andrew1 17-02-2017 15:44
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35886292)
No because he was a dull, soft and boring President.

Again, with you not following the program, with your liberal stance. Trump uses Twitter, certainly to bash and the fact he is still doing it as the President is unprecedented, but he is doing it to get the message out to his supporters, he has said, he don't need the left-leaning, dishonst biased media, he says he has a bigger far reaching audience via twitter with 25 million followers, of which has doubled since he became President, so he must be doing something right to attract so much interest in his tweeting activities and what's more, as he tweets, most of his messages get read out across the news networks anyway, netting free publicity, in to the bargain.
The reasons why Trump uses Titter are irrelevant here. Passingbat asked me why these companies did what they did. I explained that they were reacting are trying to pre-empt, Trump's attacks on Twitter.

Mr Banana 17-02-2017 15:44
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35886292)
No because he was a dull, soft and boring President.

Again, with you not following the program, with your liberal stance. Trump uses Twitter, certainly to bash and the fact he is still doing it as the President is unprecedented, but he is doing it to get the message out to his supporters, he has said, he don't need the left-leaning, dishonst biased media, he says he has a bigger far reaching audience via twitter with 25 million followers, of which has doubled since he became President, so he must be doing something right to attract so much interest in his tweeting activities and what's more, as he tweets, most of his messages get read out across the news networks anyway, netting free publicity, in to the bargain.
Have you seen some of the responses to his tweets. He may have a lot of followers but an awful lot are following so they can express their feelings toward him.

Damien 17-02-2017 15:45
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35886292)
No because he was a dull, soft and boring President.

Again, with you not following the program, with your liberal stance. Trump uses Twitter, certainly to bash and the fact he is still doing it as the President is unprecedented, but he is doing it to get the message out to his supporters, he has said, he don't need the left-leaning, dishonst biased media, he says he has a bigger far reaching audience via twitter with 25 million followers, of which has doubled since he became President, so he must be doing something right to attract so much interest in his tweeting activities and what's more, as he tweets, most of his messages get read out across the news networks anyway, netting free publicity, in to the bargain.
Problem is all the media is 'biased'. It's the default reaction to any criticism. Everyone from the BBC to Fox News, the AP to Reuters, the New York Times to the Washington Post is biased dishonest media. Conveniently this leaves only the White House and Trump's Twitter feed as a genuine source of news. Any criticism is 'dishonest, biased, liberal' fake news as is any bad poll.

The leaks from the White House are fake news (even though he seems to confirm they're leaks).
Bad approval ratings are fake news.
The popular vote total is fake voters.
The margin of electoral victory is fake maths.
The judges are using fake law.
The executive order causing green card holders to be barred is fake implementation (by Clinton!).

Everything is a lie or the fault of someone else (usually dishonest liberals) to Trump.

Mick 17-02-2017 15:52
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35886294)
Have you seen some of the responses to his tweets. He may have a lot of followers but an awful lot are following so they can express their feelings toward him.
I think that is sad. Following someone they cannot stand it is just bizarre, a bit like when you watched the news conference yesterday and I get the fact you and others can't stand the guy, I ask, why watch him/follow him? Makes absolutely no sense to me. I certainly would not watch a news conference or feel urged to go read what Clinton would say, if heaven forbid, she had won the Presidency, that's if we would still be here, given Russia was reportedly gearing up and preparing for war if she had won.

1andrew1 17-02-2017 15:55
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35886286)
In reality, it was more to do with Obama's globalist tendencies; he was an attendee of Bilderberg Meetings, along with David Cameron and George Osbourne, to name just a few.
Please don't be fooled into believing that Trump is not a globalist. He has:

- Filled his positions with a host of ex-Goldman Sachs bankers.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7581966.html

- Interests across the world including a golf course in Scotland.

- Many Trump-branded goods are made anywhere except the US
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.d903c321f25a

- Main loans are with Deutsche Bank
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...guration-nears

Which of these do not indicate globalist tendencies?

passingbat 17-02-2017 16:47
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35886297)
Please don't be fooled into believing that Trump is not a globalist. He has:

- Filled his positions with a host of ex-Goldman Sachs bankers.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7581966.html

- Interests across the world including a golf course in Scotland.

- Many Trump-branded goods are made anywhere except the US
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.d903c321f25a

- Main loans are with Deutsche Bank
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...guration-nears

Which of these do not indicate globalist tendencies?

Simple. He believes in democratic Sovereign states, who's government is elected by and accountable to the eligible electorate of that country alone. He believes that trade deals should be done between two separate Sovereign states. Hence his rejection of TPP.


The globalists believe that there should be a world government ruled by an unelected group of elites, and laws across all nations should be set by them only. A Federal states of the World. Trade deals such as TPP and the defunct TTIP, were back doors into this, as most of the trade deal was about international courts being set up to rule over disputes.

They believe in mass migration for two reasons:

Cheap labour to further their profits

And probably more important in their view; to homogenise cultural identity, to strip away each countries unique identity, so that the yearning for their old cultural identity wanes over time, to 'stop the natives getting restless'


The EU federalised states of Europe is a shadow of their real intentions

Now which one of those does Trump fit into?

Hugh 17-02-2017 17:05
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Kellyanne Conway-I screwed up an interview

Sean Spicer- I screwed up a press conference

Trump- Hold my beer#TrumpPressConference

:D

Mick 17-02-2017 17:37
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35886301)

Trump- Hold my beer#TrumpPressConference

:D
Only Trump does not drink. ;)

Hugh 17-02-2017 17:50
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35886307)
Only Trump does not drink. ;)
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2017/02/8.png ;)

Mick 17-02-2017 17:52
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35886311)
???

---------- Post added at 17:52 ---------- Previous post was at 17:51 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35886293)
The reasons why Trump uses Titter are irrelevant here. Passingbat asked me why these companies did what they did. I explained that they were reacting are trying to pre-empt, Trump's attacks on Twitter.
Hence they are not irelevant then ! :dozey:

Mr Banana 17-02-2017 18:06
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35886296)
I think that is sad. Following someone they cannot stand it is just bizarre, a bit like when you watched the news conference yesterday and I get the fact you and others can't stand the guy, I ask, why watch him/follow him? Makes absolutely no sense to me. I certainly would not watch a news conference or feel urged to go read what Clinton would say, if heaven forbid, she had won the Presidency, that's if we would still be here, given Russia was reportedly gearing up and preparing for war if she had won.
I don't follow him but I follow Gary Lineker, who often retweets Trumps tweets. As for the video, yes I did watch it as I am interested in what the President of America has to say as it could affect me in some way. Still think he is a fool though who will do a do a lot of damage during his tenure.

1andrew1 17-02-2017 18:07
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35886300)
Simple. He believes in democratic Sovereign states, who's government is elected by and accountable to the eligible electorate of that country alone. He believes that trade deals should be done between two separate Sovereign states. Hence his rejection of TPP.


The globalists believe that there should be a world government ruled by an unelected group of elites, and laws across all nations should be set by them only. A Federal states of the World. Trade deals such as TPP and the defunct TTIP, were back doors into this, as most of the trade deal was about international courts being set up to rule over disputes.

They believe in mass migration for two reasons:

Cheap labour to further their profits

And probably more important in their view; to homogenise cultural identity, to strip away each countries unique identity, so that the yearning for their old cultural identity wanes over time, to 'stop the natives getting restless'


The EU federalised states of Europe is a shadow of their real intentions

Now which one of those does Trump fit into?
Anyone who's a billionaire and owns property around the world is part of a global elite. He's got investments in very undemocratic countries and sources goods from the cheapest countries in the world. Not forgetting people too from overseas countries that staff his US resorts at the expense of homegrown US labour.
Trump's picked up on the challenges that communities in the US felt about deindustrialisation and the competition of foreign labour, connected with the voters and won the election.

passingbat 17-02-2017 18:16
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35886295)
Problem is all the media is 'biased'. .

I don't disagree Therefore it makes sense to sample the official line (WH), then a news outlet that opposes Trump, say the BBC/CNN and one that broadly supports trump, say Fox News.

Then, with all three sources, reach your own conclusion.

But people should also explore the philosophy behind both stances. As I've said, at its root it is a war between Sovereignty and Globalism/NWO supporters. Globalists have had their progress temporarily halted by Brexit and Trump. Many liberal supporters of the anti Trump movement don't understand the battle that they have opted into.

If your Avatar is of significance to you, I guess it indicates that you are firmly in the NWO camp?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sy...HfP0C8YQsAQIIA

Hugh 17-02-2017 18:19
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35886312)
???

---------- Post added at 17:52 ---------- Previous post was at 17:51 ----------



Hence they are not irelevant then ! :dozey:
It's non-alcoholic... :)

Mick 17-02-2017 18:21
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35886316)
I don't follow him but I follow Gary Lineker, who often retweets Trumps tweets. As for the video, yes I did watch it as I am interested in what the President of America has to say as it could affect me in some way. Still think he is a fool though who will do a do a lot of damage during his tenure.
Ahh Gary Lineker, one of the many not very bright celebrity elitists, who preaches on and on that we should take in more immigrants/refugees, but as long as it's not quite near to where they live. :rolleyes:

Hugh 17-02-2017 18:22
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35886312)
???

---------- Post added at 17:52 ---------- Previous post was at 17:51 ----------



Hence they are not irelevant then ! :dozey:
It's non-alcoholic.. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35886318)
I don't disagree Therefore it makes sense to sample the official line (WH), then a news outlet that opposes Trump, say the BBC/CNN and one that broadly supports trump, say Fox News.

Then, with all three sources, reach your own conclusion.

But people should also explore the philosophy behind both stances. As I've said, at its root it is a war between Sovereignty and Globalism/NWO supporters. Globalists have had their progress temporarily halted by Brexit and Trump. Many liberal supporters of the anti Trump movement don't understand the battle that they have opted into.

If your Avatar is of significance to you, I guess it indicates that you are firmly in the NWO camp?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sy...HfP0C8YQsAQIIA
Conflating Globalism (with all its issues) with a conspiracy theory (NWO) does not reflect well on the proposer...

Damien 17-02-2017 18:34
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Nuts. They're on to me. I knew it was a mistake to use the official logo of our secret organisation as my avatar.

passingbat 17-02-2017 18:42
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35886322)
It's non-alcoholic.. :)


Conflating Globalism (with all its issues) with a conspiracy theory (NWO) does not reflect well on the proposer...

I'm extremely happy with how it reflects on me. The NWO is not a conspiracy theory. Its the ultimate aim of the globalist movement.

Damien 17-02-2017 18:42
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35886318)
I don't disagree Therefore it makes sense to sample the official line (WH), then a news outlet that opposes Trump, say the BBC/CNN and one that broadly supports trump, say Fox News.
My point is that, at one time or another, all of these organisations have been biased fake news according to Trump. It's the default position of him, his White House and his supporters at any accountability or criticism. It's not as if he has an issue with one or two organisations, all Presidents have displayed that trait, it's a complete rejection of it all. Anything other than his Tweets and maybe Breitbart.

It extends to polls - all bad polls are fake news. The popular vote - the difference is fake voters. Everything is fake other than what he says apparently.

Trump attacks any check on his power. At the moment the biggest ones are the media and the courts. Thankfully for now the America system is rather resilient and it doesn't bestow full powers to it's President.

Quote:
But people should also explore the philosophy behind both stances. As I've said, at its root it is a war between Sovereignty and Globalism/NWO supporters. Globalists have had their progress temporarily halted by Brexit and Trump. Many liberal supporters of the anti Trump movement don't understand the battle that they have opted into.
People who generally support globalisation are not supporters of a New World Order.

passingbat 17-02-2017 18:45
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35886324)
Nuts. They're on to me. I knew it was a mistake to use the official logo of our secret organisation as my avatar.

So, is that a yes or a no?

Damien 17-02-2017 18:48
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
I've said too much.

heero_yuy 17-02-2017 18:49
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35886329)
I've said too much.
Come the revolution you'll be first up against the wall... :D

passingbat 17-02-2017 18:49
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35886327)

People who generally support globalisation are not supporters of a New World Order.
The head honchos behind globalisation do.

Mr Banana 17-02-2017 18:53
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35886321)
Ahh Gary Lineker, one of the many not very bright celebrity elitists, who preaches on and on that we should take in more immigrants/refugees, but as long as it's not quite near to where they live. :rolleyes:
Is he not allowed an opinion?

Damien 17-02-2017 19:04
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35886331)
The head honchos behind globalisation do.
Some people support more free trade, freedom of movement, consistent regulation. The NWO is a conspiracy that draws a lot from the previous conspiracy of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Ramrod 17-02-2017 19:13
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35886300)

They believe in mass migration for two reasons:

Cheap labour to further their profits

And probably more important in their view; to homogenise cultural identity, to strip away each countries unique identity, so that the yearning for their old cultural identity wanes over time, to 'stop the natives getting restless'


The EU federalised states of Europe is a shadow of their real intentions
I feel that needs repeating :tu:

Mick 17-02-2017 19:23
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35886332)
Is he not allowed an opinion?
Did I say he wasn't ? No.

What I do have an issue with is that the UK is being asked by celebrities, like him to take in many more refugees/immigrants, despite the fact that migration levels in the UK are at record levels already. We do not have the housing and the local resources, but that does not matter to celebrities like Gary, who live in their plush comfort zones, tweeting away like they are on some moral high ground mission, when that is quite literally far from the case.

1andrew1 17-02-2017 20:03
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35886300)
Cheap labour to further their profits
That sounds very much like Trump to me, with his request for visas for his 1,100 immigrant workers.
http://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/20...n-workers.html
http://fortune.com/2015/08/03/donald...workers-visas/

TheDaddy 17-02-2017 20:06
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35886286)
No one is suggesting that they do. But all most people see is the BBC's analysis. People, if serious about this, should get the official report direct from the source (including reporters questions) then listen to the BBC and make up their own mind.


I don't know if the BBC aired the part where Trump spoke to the reporter about black community leaders and his keenness to speak to them but was being prevented by Democrat interference. If they didn't, the BBC should have, because they are constantly inferring that he is racist.
The FBI is at it now, releasing stuff inferring that his dad was a colossal racist

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7583851.html

Tbf it does make you wonder why they're being released now

Damien 17-02-2017 20:08
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35886349)
The FBI is at it now, releasing stuff inferring that his dad was a colossal racist

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7583851.html

Tbf it does make you wonder why they're being released now
Looks like someone made a FOI request.

TheDaddy 17-02-2017 20:09
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35886350)
Looks like someone made a FOI request.
That they were only to happy to oblige

passingbat 17-02-2017 23:10
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35886348)
That sounds very much like Trump to me, with his request for visas for his 1,100 immigrant workers.
http://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/20...n-workers.html
http://fortune.com/2015/08/03/donald...workers-visas/

I would have no issue with Trump being questioned on that.


One thing the article says is that they are seasonal workers, and the employer has to prove that no US citizens will take the jobs. Do you know if he did not manage to prove that?


In the UK, from a Brexit perspective, immigration is to be controlled, not banned. There will be certain job areas where immigration is needed; seasonal jobs could be one area along with some skilled jobs. Alongside this, training of British people in these skills is required; this was seen as not so important, when there was a large pool of European workers.


But for you to equate this limited term immigration, of a small number of people, with the point I was making re the globalists reason for mass, uncontrolled immigration is simply ludicrous.

1andrew1 18-02-2017 00:11
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35886374)
I would have no issue with Trump being questioned on that.

One thing the article says is that they are seasonal workers, and the employer has to prove that no US citizens will take the jobs. Do you know if he did not manage to prove that?

In the UK, from a Brexit perspective, immigration is to be controlled, not banned. There will be certain job areas where immigration is needed; seasonal jobs could be one area along with some skilled jobs. Alongside this, training of British people in these skills is required; this was seen as not so important, when there was a large pool of European workers.

But for you to equate this limited term immigration, of a small number of people, with the point I was making re the globalists reason for mass, uncontrolled immigration is simply ludicrous.
My point is not whether or not these seasonal workers are a good thing or not. It's that you can't compartmentalise people into two simple categories derived from a conspiracy theory. Trump does many things that people would consider pro-globalisation and this is just one of them.

I just don't know what controls will occur post-Brexit but I certainly think that training the UK workforce is vitally important whatever controls we do or don't have in the future.

Kursk 18-02-2017 00:35
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35886340)
I feel that needs repeating :tu:
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35886300)
They believe in mass migration for two reasons:

Cheap labour to further their profits

And probably more important in their view; to homogenise cultural identity, to strip away each countries unique identity, so that the yearning for their old cultural identity wanes over time, to 'stop the natives getting restless'

The EU federalised states of Europe is a shadow of their real intentions
Oh yes :tu:


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