Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35927190)

Surprised no one has mentioned the net immigration figures released today, wonder why :scratch:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927208)

BBC have only just released the figures today ?

They talked about net migration on Sky News yesterday..

It's come down but IMO it is still too high, 230,000 still coming here to a country with a severe housing shortage... Services stretched to the limit...

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35927217)

l agree it is to high but don't think for one moment that reducing this significantly will be the great panacea that ends all our ills as many of these problems stem from before there was a influx of migrants and those problems will still exist after Johnny Foreigner has long gone home.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35927226)

I don't think you can deny that a significant net reduction in immigration figures will ease the burden on services and housing, Den. That is the point.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35927226)

I don't think you can deny that a significant net reduction in immigration figures will ease the burden on services and housing, Den. That is the point.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35927230)

l somehow doubt it as there are many other significant factors involved that stretch our services then just blaming everything on good old Johnny Foreigner OB.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35927230)

l somehow doubt it as there are many other significant factors involved that stretch our services then just blaming everything on good old Johnny Foreigner OB.

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35927231)

Evidence suggests immigration is a minor burden on the NHS compared to other factors: https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-immig...elated_content

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35927235)

Brexit is all about emotion and not facts. You'll never win a discussion with a Brexiter on facts and evidence alone, I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927233)

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927239)

You have not been right on a lot of things Andrew, so you got no room to talk, at all. :rolleyes:

Mostly what keeps being said would happen, hasn’t happened or is just fear mongering BS.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927233)

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927233)

Do we really want open borders to unskilled migrants who just come here to ride the benefits gravy train and steal and rob from our own citizens?

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35927243)

Of course not but they are a very small minority who should have not been let in to start with as the vast majority of migrants who come in are skilled and hardworking and are of a benefit to this country unless you don't them in either?.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927248)

That’s out of order Den, I did not say that! :mad:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35927231)

Evidence suggests immigration is a minor burden on the NHS compared to other factors: https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-immig...elated_content

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35927243)

They are a small troublesome minority and as such should not be allowed in Mick as the majority of migrants who come in this country areskilled hardworking citizens who add to this country by working for many important services so l am sure you would not want them to go as well as without them our staff shortages would be even more severe then they already are..

---------- Post added at 11:26 ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 ----------



Of course not but they are a very small minority who should have not been let in to start with as the vast majority of migrants who come in are skilled and hardworking and are of a benefit to this country unless you don't them in either?.

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35927334)

His impression of British 18 year old workers is not good. The sense of entitilement astonished him.

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35927334)

Talent is talent wherever they t comes from. I work with a European Customer service team as part of my job and I would say that the 60+ EU born workers are amazing.

Interestingly, one of the managers in that team is Hungarian and her 18 year old brother came over to the UK to improve his English. He has never been out of a job. If he didn’t like a job, he quit and got another one in days, if not hours. All minimum wage of course. His impression of British 18 year old workers is not good. The sense of entitilement astonished him.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35927373)

[/COLOR]From what I've heard, Ireland is seeking a fall-back position for Northern Ireland if a sufficiently wide-ranging trade deal is not agreed.
So, it wants a Plan B which I'm guessing would be Northern Ireland remaining in the Customs Union if the EU-UK trade deal would result in a hard border.

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35927350)

You means these immigrants are integrating in to the British way of life?

It does go to show how each persons perceptions of immigration vary depending on their experience. On the whole, most immigrants I have met have been sound. Normal people who just want to get on with their lives. Mick’s experience is different. Neither however is 100% correct.

I have been an immigrant myself, having worked in Germany, Sweden and the US. It’s tough moving to another country to work, especially if the language is different.

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35927396)

Yes of course some are some aren't. That's self evident. For anyone to say all immigrants benefit the UK though is just as silly as saying none of them do. I've worked abroad in far less liberal places than you and am married to someone who's not from the UK so we know plenty of migrants and some are a lot harder working than others just as you'd expect in any group of people. I can see it from both perspectives and so can she but, for me at least, the immigration debate has always been about having some control of quality and quantity. For far too long we've had/exercised neither and it's perfectly obvious where that has led us. Whilst the politicians and economists might like to see an ever increasing GDP, achieving it through population growth as opposed to productivity isn't the answer. We simply can't keep adding 1m people to the total every 3 years and not expect there to be inreasing problems. That reality of population growth has to be faced sooner or later and I'd rather it didn't take increasing social unrest to do so.

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35927403)

is a big Daily Mail style con trick :mad:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927405)

Oh really ?

So the four people who were mugged by Unskilled Romanian nationals about 200 yards from my own front door earlier this year never happened ?

I can show a mad face as well. :mad:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35927412)

How they thought that would fly with the DUP......

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35927421)

She would have been able to pass it without the DUP had she not called that General Election to strength her hand....

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35927418)

Brexit deal or being in Government?? Maybe the swivel eyed loons can't have both.... Stuff the DUP and call an election ;)

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35927423)

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2017/12/1.png

'Stunning move'

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927427)

Or better still, we walk away from a bad deal, remember that line ?

---------- Post added at 17:03 ---------- Previous post was at 17:02 ----------



We actually think the DUP are showing a better back bone than our own current government.

Us Brexiteers should be thanking the DUP today. I know I do.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927427)

Or better still, we walk away from a bad deal, remember that line ?

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927405)

So the four people who were mugged by Unskilled Romanian nationals about 200 yards from my own front door earlier this year never happened ?

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927427)

We actually think the DUP are showing a better back bone than our own current government.

Us Brexiteers should be thanking the DUP today. I know I do.

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35927418)

Brexit deal or being in Government?? Maybe the swivel eyed loons can't have both.... Stuff the DUP and call an election ;)

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35927435)

Why? What is the Brexiter solution to Northern Ireland?

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927405)

Oh really ?

So the four people who were mugged by Unskilled Romanian nationals about 200 yards from my own front door earlier this year never happened ?

I can show a mad face as well. :mad:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35927435)

Why? What is the Brexiter solution to Northern Ireland?

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35927438)

Where does Ian say that the event you describe didn't happen?

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35927432)

What on earth are you talking about? I think you have been reading too many Trump tweets :)

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35927435)

Why? What is the Brexiter solution to Northern Ireland?

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927442)

You quoted something I wrote in an earlier post and then claimed it was fiction that you claimed you’d find in the Daily Mail. Yes no ?

I can categorically say what happened wasn’t fiction. I can also trail back to a friends fb post about two Eastern European women, trying to mug an elderly man, they pushed him to the ground if I recall and my friend who was passing in a car stopped to help and took their pictures and reported them to the Police, who said it looks like the same Romanian women who are preying on easy targets and using distraction techniques to rob people in the street.

I don’t know how many more times I have to say it, skilled migrants, I have no issue with, unskilled *******s who come here on the steal/take, I do.

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35927444)

Some folks only hear what they want to hear

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927442)

You quoted something I wrote in an earlier post and then claimed it was fiction that you claimed you’d find in the Daily Mail. Yes no ?

I can categorically say what happened wasn’t fiction. I can also trail back to a friends fb post about two Eastern European women, trying to mug an elderly man, they pushed him to the ground if I recall and my friend who was passing in a car stopped to help and took their pictures and reported them to the Police, who said it looks like the same Romanian women who are preying on easy targets and using distraction techniques to rob people in the street.

I don’t know how many more times I have to say it, skilled migrants, I have no issue with, unskilled *******s who come here on the steal/take, I do.

---------- Post added at 18:22 ---------- Previous post was at 18:06 ----------



NI is part of U.K., it leaves with us, not have some kind of special deal brokered by the EU or the Irish Government.

What the hell is Theresa May thinking that she can just walk into EU HQ and do a deal by sidelining the DUP, not to mention it causing a stink here with the Scots, Welsh and even Sadiq insisting that they get special arrangements to stay in SM and CU too?

So far, there is no concessions the EU is prepared to move on. Our government needs to toughen up and threaten to walk away and still do so if it’s a bad deal, at the moment, TM appears to handing over billions and now potentially handing NI back to Ireland just to get to the 2nd phase of the talks, screw that. She needs to stick to her guns, no deal is better than a bad deal.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35927429)

Looking forward to the Brexit project being red carded! Thanks DUP. :)

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35927446)

You are not wrong there :)

Order .. Order .. I say, I shall have order!

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35927447)

But the Brexit campaigns promised no hard border with Northern Ireland and people voted on that basis. Therefore, the referendum is invalid if they propose to renege on the promise or can't deliver on it.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927442)

NI is part of U.K., it leaves with us, not have some kind of special deal brokered by the EU or the Irish Government.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927452)

As usual it’s a hard line remainers paradise to stop and use the NI issue as a scapegoat to stop Brexit. Brexit will happen as it should, so we can be finally rid of the EU once and for all and we can then cook our chips to the colour we damn well like. ;)

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927452)

As usual it’s a hard line remainers paradise to stop and use the NI issue as a scapegoat to stop Brexit. Brexit will happen as it should, so we can be finally rid of the EU once and for all and we can then cook our chips to the colour we damn well like. ;)

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35927453)

You need an answer to the question of the Irish border. We can't say 'no deal is better than a bad deal' and leave it at that. Something needs to happen at the border.

A border between Northern Ireland and Ireland is unacceptable to half of N.Ireland, Ireland and causes trouble with the Good Friday Agreement.

A border between the island of Ireland and Great Britain is unacceptable to the other half of Northern Island, Brexiters and the DUP.

No border is pretty much unwelcome across all sides and poses questions about customs checks and border controls. Personally I favour this arrangement anyway but it would mean some concessions from Brexiters about how we manage that.

So what is the answer? There comes a point in every topic to do with Brexit where 'No' is no longer going to work.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927442)

You quoted something I wrote in an earlier post and then claimed it was fiction that you claimed you’d find in the Daily Mail. Yes no ?

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927233)

Several rented houses, on my road have been taken up by unskilled Romanians who do not work. They constantly argue, fight with each other, are up all times of the night. They don’t integrate and to put it bluntly, some are absolute scavengers, watched 3 of them other week look over peoples walls and go through peoples bins etc, looking for any scraps of metal they can find.

Do we really want open borders to unskilled migrants who just come here to ride the benefits gravy train and steal and rob from our own citizens?

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35927457)

Ok ... you said:



No mention of any "four people who were mugged by Unskilled Romanian nationals about 200 yards from my own front door"

Of course, I am supposed to infer this.

You then, crudely, extrapolated the dodgy Romanians in your street to apply to the nation as a whole and yes, the line:



is exactly what you would find in the Daily Mail

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35927454)

Maybe for some but certainly not me as my bone of contention is the sheer incompetence of HMS and nothing l have seen or heard since has changed that view as today was just another example of it sadly.

---------- Post added at 19:00 ---------- Previous post was at 18:57 ----------



Indeed it should happen but don't think everything is going to be nice and rosy in the garden and that it will cure many of our ills because it won't sadly.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927459)

Hence why I said hardline remainer Den. You do know the difference yeah?

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35927462)

l know the difference as l might be stupid but l am not that stupid.:)

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927464)

So why the need for you to bold my remark when it does not apply to you?

You’re a remainer but one accepting of the Democratic result. Thus, not a hardline remainer, and just want this PM and her government to get on with it and stop messing about.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927464)

So why the need for you to bold my remark when it does not apply to you?

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927464)

So why the need for you to bold my remark when it does not apply to you?

You’re a remainer but one accepting of the Democratic result. Thus, not a hardline remainer, and just want this PM and her government to get on with it and stop messing about.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927464)

You’re a remainer but one accepting of the Democratic result. Thus, not a hardline remainer, and just want this PM and her government to get on with it and stop messing about.

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35927479)

Brexit is more than just severing ties and pulling up the drawbridge, it's about what takes it's place too. Northern Ireland is an example of that. You need a solution to it and whilst there are plenty ready to criticise May for her attempts to solve these problems there are fewer people with answers themselves.

The 'messing about' is the part where it turns out this is not an easy process. Maybe if some in the Vote Leave campaign who were all too ready to tell us how easy the trade deal would be and that Northern Ireland wouldn't be a problem could now step forward with what they had in mind then we could get on with it.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927448)

How very undemocratic you are. :rolleyes:

Either way, the red carding won’t happen Andrew, we’re still leaving.

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35927484)

Yes but it's OK because he's right and the majority were wrong because they were confused, deluded, xenophobic bigots. He knows this.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927459)

And don’t ever accuse me of lying again. (If I suspect correctly what you’re trying to do)

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35927456)

Until Brexiters raise their game and solve the Irish border issue, Brexit can't happen. Pretending that it's not an issue and that no deal is better than a bad deal won't make it go away.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35927505)

If we weren't setting the whole thing up to fail why did we agree to every demand, I think we set out our position all wrong at the start, focussing on anything but a trade deal as a failure was really starting of with one hand tied behind our backs, we should have played our hand as If we were leaving with no deal and anything on top was a bonus.

I could have it completely wrong, it's just the way it looks to me.

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35927506)

It's pretty easy for us to have no deal, we just don't do anything. Although you still have the problem of Northern Ireland amongst others. Although It seems the government have been giving assurances to various companies which are presumably about the nature of the relationship with the EU post-Brexit.

It might be that the British Government has spent months working on the 'divorce bill' and assumed once that was agreed the Germans would tell Ireland to knock it off and move onto the next stage of talks over their objections. When that didn't happen they tried to fudge it and it fell down on the matter of the DUP.

The idea that German car manufacturers wouldn't tolerate the lack of a deal that was popular during the campaign seems to be the basis of the government's strategy. Now we have been taken aback by the lack of domestic pressure on EU governments to do a deal as well as the unified approach they've all taken to the talks has surprised us. Hence the bigger bill, hence the lack of an answer on Ireland.

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35927506)

It's pretty easy for us to have no deal, we just don't do anything. Although you still have the problem of Northern Ireland amongst others. Although It seems the government have been giving assurances to various companies which are presumably about the nature of the relationship with the EU post-Brexit.

It might be that the British Government has spent months working on the 'divorce bill' and assumed once that was agreed the Germans would tell Ireland to knock it off and move onto the next stage of talks over their objections. When that didn't happen they tried to fudge it and it fell down on the matter of the DUP.

The idea that German car manufacturers wouldn't tolerate the lack of a deal that was popular during the campaign seems to be the basis of the government's strategy. Now we have been taken aback by the lack of domestic pressure on EU governments to do a deal as well as the unified approach they've all taken to the talks has surprised us. Hence the bigger bill, hence the lack of an answer on Ireland.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927523)

I read that an EU Official is suggesting the DUP intervention and May’s subsequent withdrawal from a deal, was staged.

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35927524)

If N. Ireland are that bothered about staying in, let them stay in along with the southern part of the island.

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35927526)

Why? It makes them look like idiots.



Right....Can't see any problems with that....:erm:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927528)

We need new leadership. May lacks total leadership qualities. Her Election campaign was extremely weak. She has fumbled, she has dithered and HMG as it stands has completely botched the Brexit process as it stands..

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927528)

I however still don’t want a Corbyn led Labour Government.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927528)

Agree with both.

We need new leadership. May lacks total leadership qualities. Her Election campaign was extremely weak. She has fumbled, she has dithered and HMG as it stands has completely botched the Brexit process as it stands. I however still don’t want a Corbyn led Labour Government.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927528)

I however still don’t want a Corbyn led Labour Government.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35926697)

One of the benefits of a secret ballot.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35927542)

It wasn't a secret ballot, so the information could be obtained if desired.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35927549)

The EU Referendum Vote wasn't a secret ballot?

Really?

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35927550)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...d=tmg_share_tw



And Ruth Davidson understandably does not want a weakening of UK integration: https://twitter.com/ruthdavidsonmsp/...72391577341952

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35927552)

Maybe she will be courted as a May-replacement as she seems to show more than the current amount of common sense seen in Tory leaders?

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35927553)

I think you would have to be an idiot to take the job at the moment.

Originally Posted by Gavin78 (Post 35927559)

Just stick Nigel in charge. There won't be any pressure then will there. He likes Trump, couldn't give a stuff about the EU, I'm sure he doesn't like scotland either so win win

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35927553)

I think you would have to be an idiot to take the job at the moment.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35927567)

You mean BoJo's going to take it then? :D

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35927561)

I think there would be a lot of upset from the far left AKA Antifa, if Nigel was ever to be in the position to be in the running for leadership.

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35927576)

It would be like putting some avowed marxists in chage of the Labour party. Oh, wait a minute.... :D

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35927771)

Imagine if Labour was in power. Diane Abbott says that she doesn't after all have any impact reports as she doesn't trust experts having earlier stated they had been done.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a3711871.html

On a humorous note, here's the front page of the National newspaper. Genius!
https://twitter.com/ScotNational/sta...18024679718912

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35927790)

The Sun is reporting David Davies is plotting to be PM by Christmas: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/508332...rime-minister/

Personally I think he should be disqualified just based on both his inability for the department he leads to undertake impact assessments and then his lying that they had.

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35927792)

... and how many times have we all been told not to believe what that scandalous rag publishes... :confused:

;)